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back to article iPhone ego clash costs Flash at Virgin America

Update: This story has been updated to show that although Virgin American is not using Flash on its home page, it is using Flash elsewhere on its site As Silicon Valley titans Apple and Adobe System deck it out over the weakness of Flash, one Valley-based outfit has put Adobe's Flash in its place - and that place isn't …

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  1. getitdoneguy

    Forget the technology war...

    It's about using the right tools for the job. The most significant sentences in this article are:

    "I don't want to cater to one hardware or one software platform one way to another, and Flash eliminates iPhone users."

    "Simhambhatla's stance on Flash reflects a philosophy about picking the right technology for the job and not going with a brand for the sake of it."

    Why is it that we humans always look for a single tool to do every job. wimax isn't going to be an 802.11" killer", Android is not going to be an iPhone "killer", etc. These technologies can peacefully co-exist, just as Flash, HTML5, Rails, and countless others.

    Bad uses of Flash:

    Entire sites - the user cannot bookmark the page to properly cite the source of a quote or pass along something noteworthy.

    Good uses of Flash:

    Animation that actually adds value to the site.

    Obviously that list in not comprehensive so don't nitpick it.

    If you don't want to learn multiple technologies, that's your choice. Just don't make the rest of the world suffer because you are lazy. Or, specialize but work with other specialists to produce a product of superior quality because you've chosen the best of the best.

    Using the right tool for the job is the difference between "getting by" and "making it happen".

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  2. sleepy

    It's not primarily Flash that Apple's blocking

    The iPhone's success stems from the way it's designed, and that includes tight control over installed software. Apple doesn't allow any third party language systems that dynamically download and run unprovenanced code.

    Equally Silverlight and third party Javascript implementations will never be on iPhone. And Flash won't be on Windows Phone 7 either.

    Adobe knows it, and that's why they are making development tools to translate Flash apps into native apps that can be passed through the target platform's provenanced app delivery network. THere are already Flash Apps translated for the iPhone.

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  3. Nick Cunningham
    FAIL

    So where's the mobile version?

    If Ravi Simhambhatla truly believes that "This year is going to be the year of the mobile [for Virgin].", why don't I see a mobile or iPhone version when I check it on my iPhone? Maybe he meant this sort of mobile: http://www.quiltsjust4kids.com/item_1425/Childrens-Mobile-Blue-and-Brown.htm

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  4. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Misinformation

    Have an iPhone. It's fine. Looking at getting a Nexus One when available (on Verizon), as it will be able to view Flash.

    That being said. Getting kind of tired of all the iPhone and iPad hype (and I'm a Mac and iPhone user). We implemented an iPhone site in October of 2008. Works fine, but compared to our regular site the numbers are pretty low. Just pulled Google Analytics info for both sites for 2/2/10 - 3/2/10:

    Regular Site - 69,031 unique visitors

    iPhone Site (which also works on other platforms like Blackberry's etc.) - 806 unique visitors

    (mobile browser OS for those interested in the exact breakdown: Safari (iPhone) 681, Explorer 68, Mozilla 45, Firefox 8, Chrome 3, Palm 750 1 equalling the 806 total)

    We welcome our mobile web site viewers (which in most cases are the same viewers that visit our regular site as well) and spend additional time and resources developing and maintaining a separate site for their convenience. However for our main site, using a combination of Flash and XHTML offers us far more advantages, flexibility, speed and scalability.

    Please note, no matter what design tools / languages you use, if you decide to design a mobile site, you'll have to design a separate one just for mobile. Even if your 100% HTML site is viewable on an iPhone or other mobile device, browsing a regular site built for the big screen on a little phone screen is no fun (for too many reasons to list here).

    Viewing a web site on a 17', 23' or double 30" monitors is totally different than viewing a site on a tiny 480 x 320 pixel screen. The user experience, content and entire navigational system that works well for site visitors is completely different.

    This post was just my immediate thoughts on your article. 1,000's of pages and and infinite amount of time could be spent on the subject talking about the advantages and disadvantages of Flash and HTML. Everyone will just have to look at what works best for them.

    But, It does not seem to me that Virgin America's switch to an HTML only site has solved any sort of problem, as they will still have to develop for both.

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  5. lzanol

    Almost there...

    I totally agree Flash was not needed in that case as in many others, when people use it unnecessarily.

    But what I saw here was a gratuitous attack on the Flash platform, which has its place on the web very well defined and unsubstitutable, represeting a trully considerable market share.

    Please consider other points of view in the next time.

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  6. Joel Fiser
    Pint

    Quit whining and start making something cool

    Instead of whining about Flash - some of you could be learning ActionScript and taking part in the fun. You'll have to have an aptitude for writing software - so some of you won't be able.

    It's a wonderful, very supportive community. We'll help you along.

    C'mon - you know deep inside Flash is not going away. Do you think User Interfaces are going to get more like HTML? Download the Flash 10.1 beta. Get yourself a smart phone and start making something cool...

    Either way, I and a million other Flashers are... it's not too late.

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    1. The Other Steve
      Reply Icon
      Flame

      Inifnite monkeys

      "You'll have to have an aptitude for writing software"

      You're talking about webbies here, if they had an aptitude for writing software, well, they'd be writing software, wouldn't they ?

      Feckin' script monkeys.

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      1. J 37
        Reply Icon
        Flame

        re: Feckin' script monkeys.

        Being a script monkey paid for my house. I was trained as a traditional programmer, and I write software for the telecom industry, but the revenue stream definitely isn't as good.

        And, besides, if it wasn't for us "script monkeys", you wouldn't be able to visit YouPorn as often as you do.

        Feckin' elitist snob.

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  7. heyrick Silver badge

    Interesting attack on Google...

    "to videos on YouTube whose owner Google is one of the largest proponents of HTML 5 - are built using the technology"

    YouTube predates the Google angle. YouTube used Flash HEAVILY.

    What would you LIKE Google to do? Ditch the Flash and go to HTML5 overnight? Do you have any idea how much suffering there would be as numerous Flash-capable browsers can't do HTML5 the way YouTube needs. Basically, Chrome (their own browser) and Safari can do it. No Firefox, no Opera, sort-of IE if you load the do-it-like-chrome plugin. Full-screen? Maybe, maybe not.

    Do captions work? Do annotations? Try it - www.youtube.com/html5

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  8. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    Cheaters are back??? how can that be allowed??

    why is Molinker back?????

    They just changed the name to Feng and changed the icon name and app theme. All the content is exactly the same, why does Apple allow them back after what they did before???

    http://itunes.apple.com/ca/artist/feng/id354108897

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