Police have confirmed that forces in England and Wales are passing up to 14m reads per day from automatic numberplate recognition cameras to a national database. All but two of England and Wales' police forces are passing data to the National ANPR Data Centre, run by the National Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA) on behalf of …

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1. Friday 5th February 2010 10:35 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  People of "interest"
  
  Obviously new people of "interest" keep popping up all of the time. So, when a new one comes onto the scene, it's probably very useful to have a look at where all the vehicles they have access to have been going to and coming from over the last few years.
  
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Wednesday 3rd February 2010 14:41 GMT Anonymous Coward

14 million hits a day?

Then how did I manage to drive on main roads (A33, M3, M4) every week for seven months without getting caught for not having a valid MOT?

Lack of MOT was due to oversight on my part. Got it sorted yesterday. AC obviously.

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1. Wednesday 3rd February 2010 17:02 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  Big Brother isn't watching me
  
  I did the same thing, only 4 months, only realised when my car tax was due and it wouldn't let me pay. So got it sorted yesterday.
  
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2. Wednesday 3rd February 2010 21:15 GMT Britt Johnston
  
  need not be 14 mio cars
  
  It could be the same few (thousand) who fit fake numbers to fast machines, and get photoed thousandfold on a single trip.
  
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Wednesday 3rd February 2010 14:41 GMT Anonymous Coward

Are these numbers right?

10k ANPR-enabled cameras?

14 mill index numbers/day

1400 index nos/camera/day

24 hours/day

56 index nos/hour

1/min on average per camera? Hhhmmmmm....

Still a damned cheek.

Any self respecting, passingly intelligent thief or serious terrorist intent on crime will be at least half aware of ANPR camera locations and will be taking steps to eliminate or manage their detection or apprehension. So we are left with either (The substantially innocent) Joe public or self detecting stupid thief being tracked and for what purpose. Meanwhile The serious and serial perps responsible for most of the worst crime and its development remain untracked and untrackable. And were is Tony Blair at the moment?

Were is the research that shows these systems are effective at anything they were put in to counter - indeed what were they put in to counter?

In a related piece of bollox, I understand speed cameras were put in on the Nottingham ring road to "catch Speeding motorists" with the fines being used to in part pay for the system. Motorists picked this up quickly and fine revenue plummeted leading to howls or outrage from the system implementers and not a few red faces. I'm not at all sure that accidents were reduced but I'm sure the Notts police can tell you if they are not busy passing exam answers to colleagues, shoplifting or making John Terry look more than a little innocent in relation to his sexual misdemeanors.

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Wednesday 3rd February 2010 14:45 GMT SirTainleyBarking

So when did ACPO

Become a statutory organisation then? AFAIK they are still, in law, a private company!

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Wednesday 3rd February 2010 16:47 GMT Anonymous Coward

Where it falls down

1: Car cloning of legit cars means they cant easily track criminals or other persons of interest.

2: As ACPO is a private limited company they cant hide behind the "ongoing investigation" clause the police have over data protection requests so anyone can freely ask for the data and be given it. Why invest in expensive company car tracking, get ACPO to do it for you !

Black Helicopters - ACPO's company vehicle it seems!

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Wednesday 3rd February 2010 16:55 GMT Anonymous Coward

@All those cameras and...

Ha! Try this. Late last year my bike got nicked near a major junction in a bike bay next to a very busy road. Loads of cameras.

A week later the police wrote to me and said it hadn't been found and they considered it case closed.

Three weeks later I received a parking ticket for the bike, which had been given the DAY AFTER it was nicked, parked in the NEXT STREET.

Of course I never got it back...

So much for 10,000 fucking cameras... Useless plods.

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1. Thursday 4th February 2010 01:16 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  Yes, sorry about that
  
  Problems like that will be dealt with when we roll out phase 5 of the programme and broaden our range of monitoring camera protection to also include residential streets. By that time we also hope to have perfected our behavioural analysis software. Of which, roll out will commence in phases 8 and 9. You will have nothing to fear soon.
  
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Wednesday 3rd February 2010 17:02 GMT James 47

Easy to defeat?

Wear a t-shirt with your/random number plate image on it. Confuse the hell out of the cameras.

All they record is an image of a number plate, it has no idea if it's a real number plate or not.

This might involve walking along a busy road though.

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1. Thursday 4th February 2010 01:20 GMT Haku
  
  Cyclists
  
  Find out where there are some/many cameras that track you by your registration plate, especially ones that do average speed calculation, then get a bunch of cyclists all wearing shirts with the same fake numberplate on the back.
  
  Now proceed to cycle past the cameras, with 100 meter gaps between each cyclist. Repeat many times.
  
  Probably the best way to make the point about the damn cameras would be to have shirts made up with the registration of a well known politician / police chief etc. to really stir things up.
  
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Wednesday 3rd February 2010 17:14 GMT Anonymous Coward

who's up for an nice LCD numberplate?

You know...the one that can be anything you want? The're not all that expensive and mighty entertaining as you mimic your favourite MP and drive like a wanker.

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Wednesday 3rd February 2010 21:12 GMT Nebulo

I must be old fashioned

because I happen to think that, 'just maybe', these private companies, IF we mandate them to do it at all, should have had talks "to ensure that data retention is appropriate and proportionate" BEFORE they started stashing away millions of pictures per day. An activity which seems to have 'inappropriate and disproportionate' written all over it.

Big Bro icon - appropriate and proportionate for pretty much any story about the UK these days.

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Wednesday 3rd February 2010 21:12 GMT Eden

Sadly...

Most motorbikes get lifted into the back of a van then either shipped abroad or broken into bits and sold as scrap and parts so this isn't very handy for finding those.

Also it relies on Databases which are a pain in the ASS when they go wrong.

Case in point when I bought an SV650 a few years back from a chap way up North, me living down south.

Got pulled over randomly by the plod who ask me my name etc.

When I ask why I was stopped they said it was a random stop check as they were wondering what I was doing so far away from home.

I explained I was 2 miles from home thankyou very much.

Seems the plods Database still had the bike registered to this guy up north, not me, despite the DVLA paperwork and tax all being up dated (the tax and my ID i had naturally - bike ownership docs, of course not).

Queue subtle allegations of me having stolen the bike etc etc and 10 minutes by the roadside before someone finally comes back over the radio telling them to let me go.

I was NOT impressed to say the least and don't look forward to a massive growth of these which will be inevitable.

That said just as Inevitable is that a lot of clones/crimes/thefts will be stopped or solved with this system so meh....

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1. Thursday 4th February 2010 14:15 GMT green_giant
  
  Are you me?
  
  I had an almost identical experience. Although I had recently bought mine so had every document on me. Was fun watching the police look over ownerships documents. reciepts for purchase etc/
  
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Thursday 4th February 2010 01:14 GMT David 45

Nothing to fear

If you're doing nothing wrong. Hmm.

Just where is the consultation or law-making that allowed the installation of said cameras? Seems to be a fait accompli to me. Just sneak them in, chaps. No-one will ever notice!

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Thursday 4th February 2010 01:16 GMT Anonymous Coward

So the usual police state commentards.

On a more factual basis the cameras are located on motorways, bridges in or near cities and a shed load in patrol cars. As a guy who rides a motorbike I'm glad they are their because the more people they stop without road tax or insurance the less chance I have of being killed by some gormless teenage twat.

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Thursday 4th February 2010 01:16 GMT Anonymous Coward

Does anyone please know...

What the deal is with the law and hand written number plates?

Say mine fell off or were stolen or whatever and I put up a piece of card in the back and front windscreens with the reg on it.

Where do I stand with that?

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1. Thursday 4th February 2010 13:31 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  Don't do it.
  
  It's illegal. You will probably be stopped and fined.
  
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Thursday 4th February 2010 11:27 GMT Anonymous Coward

When will they be available on Google?

At first, I thought this seemed like just another set of data ripe for inclusion in Google's Universal Individual Location Tracker for Higher Ad Revenue Margins. Then I realized that they lack a good way to present the advertising specific the the car and its driver. Certainly can't send a text message or web page to the car; don't really have many dynamic signs/billboards; short-range radio "stations" along the roads have been tried (without the personalization) but failed.

Google has many, much-more effective methods for tracking people in their physical movements and their electronic/network activities -- Google and Google Maps on your cell phone with GPS/location awareness, Adsense, Analytics, Picasa, blogs, searches, ... They are already pushing ads tailored to your profile, recent searches, and current physical location.

BTW I don't believe there is currently anything preventing Google from returning search results favoring pages that display Google Ads over those that do not, or even excluding pages that contain ads from competing ad services. Several years ago, Google quietly revised many "legal" documents (e.g. Terms of Service, Privacy). You probably need to read the current versions.

For Google to be interested in this data, they would need to be pushing ads at those searching for cheating spouses, competition making sales visits to clients, and anyone curious of the lives of others -- celebrities, politicians, family, neighbors, or whatever. Even just Google Streetview has already generated some difficult questions, "Why was his car ever in our driveway at 6:00 am?"

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Thursday 4th February 2010 16:10 GMT Echelon_watches

Don't believe it !!!!

What a load of cobblers !!!!

I can assure you peeps that fixed ANPRs are used for FACIAL recognition.

Ever hear the cops say 'associated' with this bloke or that ?

Yup that's what they are for. They are not interested in your motor; it's your FACE they are after which is matched instantly to a digital photo from your passport, driving licence, Govt ID card etc.

This is then plotted against your car and your Mobiles' Geolocation to show where you have been. I've seen the printouts.

This bunch have got the processing power to do it AND they use it.

Be VERY afraid.

Start wearing Burkas or balaclavas in yer cars to keep them away from your front door at 6 AM. and take your Mobile battery OUT when not in use. It can be switched on remotely at will for tracking.

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