back to article MS spins IE security disaster into Windows 7 upgrade opportunity

Microsoft is doing its best to deflect from the software vendor’s ugly, fat security hole in Internet Explorer 6, by telling customers to not only upgrade their browser for the latest version of IE, but also to ditch Windows XP while they’re at it. The much-loved operating system that refuses to die is vulnerable to attack, …

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    1. R 11

      Opera came 1st in Cenzic report

      Opera came tops in that 'security analysis' and even they dismissed it as tosh:

      http://my.opera.com/haavard/blog/2009/11/10/cenzic-security

      There's no published methodology. Everything points to them simply counting the number of 'vulnerabilities' that have been fixed. So Firefox, being open source and publishing everything comes out tops, while I.E. which only has to count the vulnerabilities found by others which Microsoft are then forced to (eventually) patch.

      You can assess your security risks off of that report if you wish. I'm just glad you don't work for me.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Er

      How is FireFox, or any browser for that matter, vulnerable to SQL Injection? Last time I checked no web browser had a SQL engine in the back end?

      Sounds to me like a stinkin' load of something to me.

    3. Notas Badoff
      Megaphone

      ... than to speak and remove all doubt.

      "Google running IE6!? Wow. HAHA! They're not even using their grrigin browser??!!!"

      Now we know how well you read and acquaint yourself with a problem. It was not Google that was using IE6, it was users, plain ole people like yourself. Well, no, probably better readers than you, to be either hired (the poor corporate slobs), or to be concerned with their fellow human beings (the human rights people).

      Read the above quote from you. If someone else wrote that, wouldn't you be able to immediately tell they were immensely confused?

  1. adam payne
    Stop

    Sounds like an easy way to make money

    Well upgrading to Windows 7 sounds like an easy way for them to make money.

    What happens when they find a hole in Windows 7? we can't upgrade from that.

    1. herry

      Any company

      is here to make money.

      If whatever company you're working on right now is not making money then you're not gonna get paychecks.

      It's as simple as that.

  2. gollux
    Grenade

    I'm saving as hard as I can...

    for a new system that will run Windows 7, but between pay cuts, time cuts, putting food on the table, keeping Goodwill clothes on my back, the rent paid and all, it will be 2012 before I can swing it.

    The end of the world's coming then anyway, isn't it? <GRIN>

    Thank goodness the car's paid off and should limp on reasonably well for another four years.

    And my company's in the same straights, rollout will be somewhere along end of 2011 as we're mostly worried about basic survival at the moment.

  3. N2

    Sorry

    Your scaremongering dosnt work Mr Ballmer

    & Im not changing my Windows 2000 thank you

  4. gollux
    Alert

    Why they're recommending this...

    <blockquote>While Windows XP does not offer ASLR protection, DEP/NX alone does make exploitation somewhat more challenging.</blockquote>

    http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/04/08/ie8-security-part-I_3A00_-dep-nx-memory-protection.aspx

    So, enabling DEP for IE6 and IE7 is easy, YMMV for Windows XP.

    "Somewhat more challenging" probably means "We'll have that running in 1-2 weeks" given the track record.

  5. Pirate Dave Silver badge

    IE 6 on XP is vulnerable?

    So I guess those of us lucky enough to still be using IE 6 on Win2k are safe then...

  6. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
    Pirate

    Cost

    If it didn't cost so much maybe more people would upgrade. As it is I suspect most people don't upgrade until they get Windows 'free' and pre-installed an a new PC. If Firefox / Chrome + XP solves the problem, that's the easy option to take. I didn't buy Vista and I'm not buying its service pack; Windows 7.

    I'm quite sure there are a number of XP bootlegs out there using dodgy license keys where people don't go near Windows Update and risk playing the WGA game, so won't be updating anything any time soon. While such people invite problems onto themselves they cause issues for everyone when they become bot-nets and so on. Microsoft cannot simply wash its hands of complicity in bringing that about.

  7. Kevin 6

    Make me glad

    Glad I use Windows 2000 with IE5 ;) (I've yet to actually launch IE so no need to upgrade)

    Most current viruses won't work on it even if you manually try to install them due to needing libraries that don't exist in 2k :D And most the old win 2k viruses won't work on the new OS's so my machines can sit pretty without much worry.

    BTW I've actually tried infecting another win 2000 comp a few times with current viruses just to get a DLL not present error ;)

  8. odiegh
    Stop

    that's why it's called an upgrade

    Companies who still use IE 6 (as mine does) are asking for their own problems! You don't use office 95 do you? Windows 95? No because newer versions are the product of all the tech support issues and those system crash auto generated message to microsoft. So being 2 versions behind you ask for an ass kicking. Then to blame MS for not updating something 2 versiosns behind a company doesn't want to update? No one says this to the mac nuts get a grip and udate like you're suppose! It's free for whatever god you pray to sakes.

    It's just like many viruses often hitting corporate users microsoft normally already has the fix available but some jerk off won't implement it or has his IT staff with so few people there is no time to test new roll outs for all the custom applications. do the updates when they say for a reason! Google getting hit for using ie 6... SIXXXX are you freaking kidding me?

    1. Robert E A Harvey
      Gates Horns

      I wouldn't mind

      >office 95

      $MEGACORP upgraded us all from Office 97 to Office2003 two years ago, and I'm still finding things that used to work and don't any more. There are no plans to upgrade further.

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge
      Terminator

      It's a question of product liability

      All manufacturers are liable for damages sustained by customers using their products. Which is where you get recalls due to defective batteries, tyres, cables, etc. Software manufacturers have so far managed to avoid the substantial related costs by providing product updates which remove the defect.

      In the case of Microsoft this disregard for customer care has been allied with the embrace and extend strategy which wedded the browser to the OS (are you listening Google?) from Windows 2000. The prevalence of IE 6 is due in no small measure by Microsoft's refusal to release IE 7 and IE 8 for Windows 2000. As they are currently unable to say when the will be able to fix the current defect they may finally be held accountable for any damage that may result from exploits. Government agencies (and it should be noted that in Germany at least it is not the ministry but the office for security that has made the recommendation) are covering their own arses by advising citizens of the possible dangers.

      Someday Microsoft make thank the European Commission for encouraging them to split browser from the OS and, thus, preventing them from achieving their prize of a locked-in monoculture.

    3. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
      Flame

      Re : odiegh, "that's why it's called an upgrade"

      "It's just like many viruses often hitting corporate users microsoft normally already has the fix available but some jerk off won't implement it or has his IT staff with so few people there is no time to test new roll outs for all the custom applications. do the updates when they say for a reason!"

      I think you are confusing "bug fix" and "upgrade".

      Most people will welcome bug fixes providing they don't bork something else, but an upgrade is so much more than that which people may not want and may introduce compatibility issues with other things.

      "Keep the bug" or "upgrade to something different" is often Hobson's choice. What most people want is stability, consistency and familiarity. Sure Windows 7 may fix a bug which exists in XP, IE8 fix a bug in IE6, but how much additional effort will that bring to get things working as they were before, and it may introduce bugs which weren't there before. MS implicitly admits there may be problems with an upgrade to Windows 7 or they'd have not wasted any time on XP Mode. Do most home users have the 'rescue option' of XP Mode ? No, I think not. Why does IE8 have to support IE6/IE7 compatibility modes ? Because it's not a bug-fixed IE6/IE7, it's different.

      Familiarity is why non-techies-but-can-use-a-PC people don't usually move between OS's. It's just too scary, too daunting, better the devil you know. The same drives people to keep old, bug-laden applications rather than upgrade those. Especially with the trend of dumbing down apps where an upgrade means less flexibility or loss of functionality, or a rush to add eye-candy and bloat.

      Finally, upgrade from XP to Windows 7 - Are Microsoft going to be paying for the hardware upgrades which may be required for that ? Don't make me laugh.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      You say still running Win 95 but.....

      Not a year ago i was temping at a company that was still using Win 98.

      Needless to say i didnt stay long.

  9. Neal 5

    @Indian-Art

    "Lets avoid this by using the safe and secure UBUNTU"

    Hmmm, somehow, as bad as Windows is, and as bad as IE is, given the list below, I might just consider switching to an unpatched XP running IE6 out of box, with no firewall and no anti-virus, it's more attractive than this.

    http://lwn.net/Alerts/Ubuntu/

    Recent Ubuntu security alerts

    (1013 alerts total)

    ID Package Date

    USN-887-1 libthai 2010-01-18

    USN-886-1 pidgin 2010-01-18

    USN-884-1 openssl 2010-01-14

    USN-885-1 transmission 2010-01-14

    USN-882-1 php5 2010-01-13

    USN-883-1 network-manager-applet 2010-01-13

    USN-881-1 krb5 2010-01-12

    USN-878-1 firefox-3.5 2010-01-08

    USN-877-1 firefox-3.0 2010-01-08

    USN-880-1 gimp 2010-01-07

    USN-879-1 krb5 2010-01-06

    USN-876-1 postgresql-8.1, postgresql-8.3, postgresql-8.4 2010-01-04

    USN-875-1 redhat-cluster, redhat-cluster-suite 2009-12-18

    USN-873-1 firefox-3.0, xulrunner-1.9 2009-12-18

    USN-874-1 firefox-3.5, xulrunner-1.9.1 2009-12-18

    USN-870-1 pygresql 2009-12-11

    USN-871-1

    it's endless.

    1. Keith Oldham
      Linux

      Re : @Indian-Art

      At least I can sleep at night knowing that my OpenSUSE systems are automatically updating the fixes to the inevitable bugs ( that ALL soft ware has ) as soon as they are available which is usually pretty quickly

    2. BenDwire Silver badge
      Flame

      @ Neal 5

      Mate, stick to Windows as you obviously don't understand computers. Keep paying your hard earned cash for the latest shiney bling and you'll be fine. Trust me. I sell just what you need.

      And freetards, don't forget to put a bid on fleabay for his old stuff - "hardly used, only one user, only selling due to an upgrade". Where would we be without the sheeple?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        surely

        using the term "freetard" is an insult to linux users?

        just askin.......

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      known issues

      Yes, at 1013 alerts is does seem impressive.

      However, from your list PHP5, PostgreSQL, RedHat-cluster, Firefox applications not part of Linux but the Ubuntu distribution. It is very easy to get more up to date versions from the various project websites.

      If you produced a list of Windows desktop, server, SQL, MS Clustering, IE, Outlook, Office etc; the list would be much longer and that is just the known issues. Unlike Microsoft these will be fixed and not hang around for years.

    4. gollux
      Alert

      And simple to take care of...

      Click the icon in the bar, enter your password when prompted and only worry about reboots if there's a kernel update.

      Slightly less unobtrusive than Windows Update on the XP machines on my network, which usually require a reboot whenever I manually tell them to update, but that ceased being a problem with the newer WSUS client that now installs patches on shutdown.

      And the list you pulled up for an example? That would be like running Exchange, Windows XP, Server 2003, Vista, Office, SharePoint, MSSQL, IIS, etc with the updaters for 3rd party Adobe, Firefox, etc thrown in. If you actually compared the same spread on Microsoft systems, you come pretty close. I know, I run our company's network with Mac, Microsoft, and a couple Linux systems and have to keep up on this stuff.

      Try finding out what constitutes a Mac OS-X update listing, its probably more comparable.

      And, yes the patches for all OS's is endless, not just your example. And every time you turn around, you've got a Flash bomb or an Adobe Reader shoal just waiting to take you out.

      All you have to do to sabotage your operation is to not do your job. Amazing what a quicksand foundation we've built our modern business upon...

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Grenade

      Hard luck, fanperson

      OpenSSL != Unbuntu

      Pidgin != Ubuntu

      PHP5 != Ubuntu

      Firefox != Ubunto

      GIMP != Ubunto

      etc

      etc

      it's, as you say, endless - it's also NOT UBUNTU!

      But never mind, cut 'n' paste is the obvious limit of your intellect anyroads.

    6. John G Imrie

      it's endless

      That's because it lists bugs in *everything* in the distro.

      Try concatenating the bug lists for Windows, Office, IE, SQLserver, Outlook, Outlook Express, IIS, mIRC, ....

      Oh look it's endless.

    7. Greg J Preece

      A flaw in your logic, Neal

      I am willing to bet that all those alerts were found through peer review rather than hostile 0-day attacks, and that they were patched almost immediately. Therein lies the difference. Microsoft are constantly having their software kicked around, and when it is they are sluggish at best to fix the problems. Linux systems are patched so fast that no-one has a chance to exploit the code.

    8. Big-nosed Pengie
      FAIL

      Title

      Pig ignorance or paid FUD? You decide.

    9. heyrick Silver badge
      Stop

      @ Neal-5

      I see ("network-manager-applet" etc) that we are counting the active buglist of the entirety of Ubuntu and supplied applications, and not just a web browser.

      Wanna take a wild guess as to the current buglist of Windows and the standard usually-supplied applications?

      Allow me to quote: "First, he says that over 2,000 bugs will be fixed in the release version of Win 7 because of feedback from the over 10 million downloaders of the beta OS, which ended on February 10th. Sinofsky says that at peak times in January, Microsoft was receiving one feedback report every fifteen seconds for a week straight, and has, to date, gotten over 500,000 of them."

      [source http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/26/windows-7-to-get-2-000-bug-fixes-pointed-out-by-testers/]

      So... 10 MILLION beta downloads, HALF A MILLION reported bugs. "Over two thousand" fixed.

      If we say every other report is a dupe of the one before, that gives us 250,000 bugs. Divide by 2 again just to be really charitable. 125,000 bugs.

      And +/- 2000 fixed.

      Suddenly Ubuntu seems like a better proposition, no?

      And with its active buglist in the open, we're all at least know the state of play. Maybe, now, Microsoft is regression testing Win7SP1 and after deployment there will only be 42 unfixed bugs. Or maybe the list now stands at over a million. Who can say?

    10. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Server and Client and third party apps.

      Come on - that is a list of bugs across the whole Ubuntu repository. It includes client components (firefox,pidgin) and server components ( PHP, postgresql, redhat-cluster). Many of these are not even core operating system components but third party applications.

      Can I suggest you do the same for windows ? Take the client side and the server side and then go and add in a lot of additional software provided by third parties.

  10. DEAD4EVER
    Unhappy

    windows7 from xp

    microsoft yet again shows it cant get nothing right constant bugs and flaws all over either in the operating system or browser jeese how am i supposed to upgrade my mothers laptop thats so old about 4 to 6 years old its a old toshiba m40x it had 512mb ram i think i upgraded it to 1.5gb so half a gig in. i even tried to upgrade it to windows 7 i had a windows 7 cd and before i knew it all of windows 7 features were disabled all the eye candy and stuff and it wasnt running well at all so this clearly shows that 7 isnt for all laptops even really old ones that were only ment for xp only. so tell me microsoft what do i do about this laptop

  11. Matthew Anderson
    FAIL

    sigh

    Sounds like good enough advice to me. What do you want them to say? "Don't bother upgrading to a more secure model, life sucks and we gave up caring a long time ago wtf you do"

    Another non-article from ell reg *cheer*

  12. Anonymous Coward
    WTF?

    Old version not as good

    Shocker. I assume in the Linux world (that so many angry angry people are shouting from the rooftops about) that perfection was achieved in the first version?

    What's that you say? Ubuntu's up to 9.10? But shurely shome mishtake?

    Please everyone just bear in mind that with ANY Operating System design you're balancing security against usability. It's a very long scale. It's why you won't find solitaire on a system looking after the control rods at Torness.

    Where's the STFU icon? Oh well, close enough

    1. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Blithering idiot...

      The numbers indicate the year and month that the particular version was released in. For example 9.10 was released in October (10) 2009 (9!). The next release will be 10.04; April (04) 2010 (10!). If you look at the release schedule, you'll notice it's done every 6 months and 10.04 will be a LTS or Long Term Support version. Do try and think out side of your Microsoft comfort zone. You should've Bing'd Ubuntu versioning before telling other to STFU. What's that famous quote about looking like a fool? Ah yes; “Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...”

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Stop

      Wrong

      Security and usability aren't opposite ends of a sliding scale. Sure, there are security measures that inhibit users, but it's wrong to believe it to be true in general.

  13. Lewis Mettler 1
    Stop

    should have saved that $35 and not bought IE

    Should have saved that $35 and not bought IE at all.

    Oh, you were denied that option. Never mind.

    And your opinion no longer counts either. Not to Microsoft. That is for sure.

  14. mark l 2 Silver badge
    Gates Horns

    stuck with IE6

    As others have previously mentioned some large companies are stuck with running IE6 as they have expensive software that ONLY runs on IE6. The local gov dept where i used to work spent £140K about 4 years ago on a custom written helpdesk software app that requires IE6 and doesn't work correctly in later versions of IE or alternative browsers and with all the cut backs now on spending they cannot afford to have the software re-written.

    As for MS suggestion to upgrade to Windows 7 the solution is for MS to fix their peice of sh!t software not tell people that they have to spend money conveniently with MS to fix a problem with a MS product.

  15. David Harrington 1
    FAIL

    Must be a slow news day

    What exactly is this article telling us that we don't already know? IE6 is full of holes - well I never knew that...

    El Reg seems to be spinning it, not MS - XP users can also upgrade their browser, so how are they spinning it as a Win7 upgrade opportunity?

  16. LawLessLessLaw
    Boffin

    I'm a Plan9 user

    It's like driving an Ariel Atom or Catherham.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    How many councils can't afford to REPLACE W2k machines!

    Having just visited another council customer this morning who STILL has a vast base of W2k powered machines because they can't afford to replace them with something that would RUN XP! I think it is about time Microsoft was FORCED to fix IE6 or better still just provide a version of IE8 that will install on them.

    The alternative that we are strongly supporting is to simply disable IE6 and switch these sites to Firefox!

  18. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    intranets / extranets / cost of upgrade = ie6 persistance

    probably been mentioned in the inevitable slew of posts...

    The biggest issue here is a hole microsoft dug corporates into a decade ago.

    Non-standards compliant browser, using propriety scripting, adopted by millions of microsoft sysadmins "because it's easy", installed on millions of company desktops "because it's a standard", embedded deeply into the OS "because we want to win the browser war"

    The cost of this is going to be felt by businesses, governments and institutions, as they struggle to upgrade vast networks of ie6 based code and ie6 based desktops.

    The horrible thing is, you could see it all starting 10 years back and you just knew then it was wrong and would come back to bite.

    My only hope is that this deals another blow to Balmer and Co. (Hateful 800lb gorilla that he is) and that someone at m$ finally wakes up and smells the coffee - your days are numbered unless you start following standards.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    @Neal 5 - erm, made yourself look a tad bit silly there mate...

    @Neal 5 - do your research before knee-jerking matey...

    Try actually FOLLOWING those security alert links, only to find that EVERY one of them already has an upgrade available.

    How silly of you ;)

  20. Big-nosed Pengie
    Linux

    "Much loved"?

    I call bullshit. It's not "much loved" - it's two things: idiot corporates who've drunk the M$ Kool Aid and designed their apps to run exclusively on Ayeeee 6 and now can't afford to redesign them properly, and consumers who fell for the "a computer is like a fridge - you turn it on and it goes" bullshit, who wouldn't know what Windows was and whose computers are prime botnet nodes.

  21. Neal 5

    @BenDwire

    LOL. least you're sense of humour is shining through, still the small thing in life, eh.

    I shall stick to Windows mate, there's a good living to be made from cleaning them.

    "Bling" ?. Sorry wrong ethnicity.

    Trust, you sell just what I need, good, that's if you haven't used all your product first , in a hedonistic orgy of self fisting.

    "fleabay", hmmmmm, would explain where your knowledge of computers comes from, fleabay is an upgrade for you, both in quality and style.

    Where would we be without sheeple?, A very good question, one I doubt that you'd lose much sleep over though, it might involve some neural activity.

  22. Ammaross Danan
    FAIL

    @ Neal 5

    About the following (at the very least):

    USN-887-1 libthai 2010-01-18

    USN-878-1 firefox-3.5 2010-01-08

    USN-877-1 firefox-3.0 2010-01-08

    USN-875-1 redhat-cluster, redhat-cluster-suite 2009-12-18

    USN-886-1 pidgin 2010-01-18

    USN-870-1 pygresql 2009-12-11

    I don't know about you, but I don't have a Linux box set up in a redhat-cluster environment, nor use pidgin as an email client, nor have python PostgreSQL extensions (nor PostgreSQL for that matter) installed. I don't speak Thai, so libthai is out (since I don't install language extensions either). You can chuck Firefox 3.0/3.5 out the window since that is platform independant anyway (and who doesn't run the most bleeding edge ALPHA version anyway? [sic to Win7Beta-still! runners])

    Your 1000-long list of alerts is for any and ALL packages (and versions of such) that Ubuntu "supports" in their distro.

    "I might just consider switching to an unpatched XP running IE6 out of box, with no firewall and no anti-virus"

    And last I checked, this setup is infected in less than 6 seconds last I checked...PASSIVELY (as long as you're not behind a router, which apparently isn't even safe anymore either)

  23. Chris iverson
    WTF?

    NEWSFLASH!!!

    Experts and lay people alike discover that software needs updates. Hell I took my car in to the shop and it needed a software update.

    In other news:

    Water is wet

    Birds can fly

    Pigs smell like sh*t

  24. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Other vendors...

    It doesn't help that other vendors are releasing badly coded products that depends on IE6 to work correctly. For example, one company I worked with requires users to stick to IE6 because some of their webapps glitches up badly with IE7 or newer. When the main IT guys contacted the vendor of the webapp, they were told that the vendor has no plans to support IE7 or newer.

    Fail. Any company who requires that their system work on an archaic version of IE are these.

  25. Sugarmice on a skateboard
    Stop

    Number of security patches is not a good measure

    To all of you who keep claiming that the number of published security vulnerabilities for Linux shows that it's less secure than Windows: STOP! That argument is futile and severely flawed, for a number of reasons:

    1) The Ubuntu patch list covers both the core OS and all of its packaged applications. The equivalent of Windows plus every third party application that happens to have an MSI installer, whether written by Microsoft or not. The same's true for the other Linux distributions. That will make the Linux count higher - it's a larger body of software.

    2) The Linux patches tend to be for individual components, each of which fixes a single vulnerability, whereas Microsoft (and Apple) patches tend to be less frequent and fix multiple things in a single patch. So, number of patches != number of vulnerabilities. This is quite sensible from MS and Apple's points of view because it makes their support matrix simpler.

    3) All of those Linux applications (and quite a lot of Apple's stuff, at least the Darwin side) are open source. This means that there are a larger body of people scrutinising their code than Microsoft's. This is bound to result in people discovering what vulnerabilities there are more quickly and in a steadier stream in the open source software, again leading to a larger number of less serious security alerts. This is actually a *good* thing; it means the undiscovered bugs get discovered sooner.

    There's only one way any of us could meaningfully say whether IE/Windows or Firefox/Linux (let's stick to equivalents here) is more or less secure than the other, and that's by being able to inspect the complete source code for each. Since MS are never going to allow that, no-one who doesn't work for MS and have the code access can *ever* categorically state that IE is more secure, because they have no sensible way to measure it. So don't try.

    Oh, and for everyone who seems to think we can all upgrade from IE6 at the drop of a hat, yes, as individuals maybe. But corporates? No chance. My employer creates web resources that are used by the NHS. The NHS still use IE6, and plan to for at least a year. Presumably this is because of the huge amount of testing they need to do to make sure that patients are not affected by *any* change. Even then, they're only going to IE7, not IE8. As a result, we need to support IE6 as a browser for our web developers to test with for at least a year ourselves. It's a nightmare, but we have to do it (for our own purposes we stay reasonably current).

    And lastly - the argument that we need to upgrade our Windows version in order to make IE secure - isn't this sort of tight integration of the browser with the OS precisely what got MS into so much trouble with the DoJ and the EU? Sounds like they haven't changed anything.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    WTF?

    Banksters

    Who else thinks that this could end up costing more than the last Bank Heist?

    We'll all pay, as large corporations put up prices to cover it, people get put on the dole as companies struggle to afford it or go to the wall, and taxes will go up to cover the NHS and the rest of the Civil Service sorting it out!

    Meanwhile, the top Civil Servants who agreed to be locked in by MicroShaft and encouraged such stupidity are looking forward to their gold-plated and index-linked pensions and a seat on a board or two.

  27. Tom 7

    Oh Dear - Upgrade path blocked

    It now seems that upgrading to 7 or 8 wont stop this 'bug' so no point in complaining about people not upgrading anymore!!

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