back to article Disney punts hetero luuurv to wide-eyed kiddies

Parents who'd rather hoped that sticking their brats in front of a Disney film would result in nothing more serious than whining demands for associated merchandising will be horrified to learn that such movies are punting strictly heterosexual values to impressionable minds. That's according to Emily Kazyak and Karin Martin, …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.

Page:

Grenade

Fine

it's not as if the folks behind have their own agenda or anything.

WHAT !!!!! they have an agenda, well who would have believed it.

Disney films (amongst others) also tend not so show the characters pissing or having a crap either but everybody knows that happens in the real world.

When are these people going to grow up and give <orientation>, <skin_colour>, <religion>, <height>, <gender>, <perceived_gender>, <disability> or <species> a bit of respect & STFU about their own perception of justice (or otherwise)

/me awaits the (first) unbiased PETA report

0
0
Headmaster

empirical?

"I'm of the opinion [homosexuality] is . . . empirically based"

So you mean people see all those gay couples and just imitate them? Or do you mean we know it exists because we have seen them?

0
0
(Written by Reg staff)

Re: hmmm REDUXIFIED III

Alright, guys, I'm letting both sides say their bit but try and take a few deep breaths and calm it down a little. Less shouting, more mutual respect. I appreciate it.

0
0
Silver badge
Pint

I agree

With Citizen Kaned.

Hetero relationships are portraid as the norm because, well, they are - given that 100% of children are the product of a male/female blending of genes.

Additionally, can you blame the makers of children's films? No-one can object to a movie aimed at children wherein the princess falls for her Prince Charming; but about 45% of the market would evaporate for a childrens movie that had her fall for Princess Charming. Money talks.

There are plenty of non-G movies that show/explore non-hetero relationships, which parents can choose to let their children see. If it wasn't for the fact that most non-hetero story lines (most, but definitly not all) tend to be a bit heavy handed in the sex department, there might be more non-hetero G movies. The question then becomes who is at "fault" for the vast preponderance of hetero love in G movies, the makers of G movies that show hetero romance, or the makers of non-heterocentric movies that can't have romance without clubbing the viewers over the head with sex?

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Agree with AC about Daily Mail style comments

When sociologists write about norms don't assume they mean it in a statistical sense. The sociology of norms is about norms as (implicit) ideals.

0
0
Coffee/keyboard

@Peyton

You owe me a new computer alltogheter . I think the beforemantioned rabbit belongs in a new multi-sexual category given he also has a pretty impressive bunny girlfriend.

0
0
Heart

These arguments solve nothing..

No one cares what real people get up to in their bedrooms, most of us would rather not think about it and it does nothing to fix the problem clearly highlighted by this study.

The obvious conclusion to this is we need an unrated Disney porn channel that caters to a variety of sexual fantasies and desires. After all won't someone think of the children?

0
0
Anonymous Coward

re: everyone making the point that heterosexuality is the "norm"

there's no such thing. yes it's the majority - so what? homosexuals are a significant minority (5-10% I believe) that are completely unrepresented. white people outnumber non-whites in this country at about the same ratio as heterosexuals outnumber homosexuals, would you say being white is the norm? that kids entertainment should only depict white people?

i do agree with swarthy on his final point, regarding the over-emphasis on sex. i wouldn't say the makers of either category are more at fault than the other though; i suspect it's because most mainstream film-makers still see homosexuality in any form as an "adult" subject, so they'll only even think about covering it if they're making an "adult" movie anyway (which would probably have some shagging in there in either case) and if they're making a kids one they wouldnt even think about touching on such an "adult" subject. which is a shame.

0
0
Silver badge
FAIL

Egg-headed Disney film research proves....

That identity politics sucks and political correctness really is out of hand!!

A) Hetero relationships are the norm in society--just deal with it

B) You think parents are going to line up to take their kids to "The Lion Queens"? Disney is in business to make money (you know, that evil indicator of value that keeps all the lights and servers on at your workplace and your family in clothes and housing), and why should they cut their throat so that SOME ELEMENTS of the academic and gay communities can feel good about themselves?

C) Lots of very talented gay composers and artists out there. Maybe they should make a gay animation studio and see how far that goes.

D) Disney films usually portrays scientists and academics in a postitive light (Merlin, Belle's father in Beauty and the Beast, the guy who invented "flubber"). Maybe to be realistic they should occasionally portray them as blinkered ideolouges who waste money on pointless research.

0
0
Grenade

Requisite IT angle...

Think about WALL-E & friend. Jeez -- it's a couple of frickin' MECHANICAL things havin' a little go at each other.

WALL-E even briefly flirts with cross-dressing (think "brassiere"). He gets his 'hand' caught in her... whatever. She gets all, you know, non-responsive, and still he remains faithful to her. He follows her off-planet. Okay -- so she IS the last 'woman' on earth, but still. Eve gets to be the gorgeous dominant female to the little nerd male, and fat people fall in love.

Yet... yet I went to see the movie and loved it and my kids loved it and nobody got worried about gender roles or body images. It was a cute love story, that's all. And it worked because they set out to tell a story, rather than trying to bludgeon us with messages.

And THAT is where far too much gender-motivated art goes wrong. The originators sit there, bitter and angry and marginalized and say, "let's make a movie that shows OUR point of view!!" and then proceed to excrete propaganda so heavy-handed that you can't feel anything but the Stalinist jackboot of social activism.

Recommended antidote: a gratuitous beverage of your choice and a rousing chorus of "Kill da wabbit, kill da wabbit..."

0
0
Stop

Utter tosh!

Another example of academics desperate to ensure tenure, stop wasting my time reading crap into everything. So what's next, not enough sex scenes between Bolt and Rhino the hamster? For flips sake most of the time me and the kids watch entertainment for a story, not to try to read deep hidden meanings into things, can't we just enjoy the simple things in life without over-thinking it all?

0
0
FAIL

What rubbish

Giving women, gays, minorities etc is always good - but it sure does annoy the hell out of me when they suddenly want MORE than equal rights.

0
0
WTF?

Did I miss something?

Ok, I read the story, and read most of the comments before I got tired of the two sides of the same argument... and.. I must have missed a beat or something because I thought the study was not about Disney films unfairly leaving out homosexual content, but rather about Disney films excessively promoting sexuality in >extremely< underage children. That that sexuality was heterosexual in nature was noted, but the true focus and the reasoning seemed to be ALL about sexuality of whatever variety.

I'm assuming it was I who's mind went on the tangent, because there are 3000000 (not to exaggerate or anything) commenters who obviously read the other thing, and only one of me. But I still can't shake this feeling that maybe, just maybe, a lot of people need to take the pill or get abortions for their preconceived notions...

0
0
IT Angle

@REDUXIFIED III

OK, I'll try to tone things down - I'm used to having this discussion in unmoderated groups. I'll even use a pseudonym, if that helps people focus or somehow makes my points more valid than those coming from AC.

I made the comparison with queerbashing after spotting all of the following unhelpful techniques, which can be seen in many an online debate about gay rights:

* Assert that heterosexuality is the norm, and that people who "choose" to be bi-/homosexual don't deserve fair representation

* After being reminded that homosexuality occurs naturally, compare it to bestiality/paedophilia

* Defensively mention having gay friend/s

This has now been joined by...

* Enquire about the sexuality of those who disagree

But to get back to the topic...

''we are talking about KIDS here. you know little people who couldnt give a shit about girlfriends/boyfriends. to be honest its drivel like disney that make all little girls think they will marry some rich prince and never work again''

This is on the mark. The problem with those kids' films isn't the absence of same-sex relationships, it's the presence of (frequently gender-stereotyping) straight ones. I also agree with much of the comment about Wall-E - that was after the range covered by this study, and could be a sign of improvement in this area.

0
0
Troll

Pantomime is the answer.

A young woman dressed as a young man falls in love with a young man and they marry and live happily everafter. The fake young man's mother is usually a middle aged bloke in drag who often falls in love with some male relative or friend of the non-fake young man and marries him. All of this overseen by a fairy! So all the good guys are cross dressing, same sex kissing and marrying types and all the bad guys, of either sex, are as straight as they come.

Don't get me started on what goes on inside the horse or the cow.

The troll is as close to a pantomime character as I could get.

0
0
Silver badge
Thumb Down

Hang on, wait a few years

Disney barely got to the idea of having a BLACK HEROIN... Give them time!

(and critics are complaining that her counterpart is kinda light-skinned)

Joke aside, most of Disney's movies use old traditional fairy tales.

These stories are usually devoid of homosexual love.

In fact, the first gay main character in history to appear in a story for

children may well be Dumbledore, and that is at most hinted at in the books.

0
0
Alien

The Disney Conspiracy

I can't imagine anything gayer than the average Disney film. They are designed to appeal to gay children but they make it seem as if gay doesn't exist in the rest of the population. Clearly this is a conspiracy to shame gays which starts before they even know they're gay! I wouldn't be surprised if Walt Disney was one of those reptiloid shape-shifters.

0
0
Silver badge

The point you're all missing.

There is no such thing as "normal"! So-called normalcy is an invention designed to pigeon-hole people. It makes it easier to herd the sheeple into an "us vs them" position.

In reality, we are complex chemical factories with self awareness. That complexity is, by it's very nature, certain to produce variation in all things we call "human". It's the variation that is normal; in fact a point could be made that a lack of variation would be non-human.

If I'm wrong, please tell me who the prototypical human is.

0
0
Law
Megaphone

erm... why is this even an issue??

<shouty, shouty, shouty>

I would consider being straight fairly normal, I'd also consider being gay fairly normal... what people seem to be using "normal" for here is to mean average, most of the population is straight - it isn't 50/50.... that's neither a good nor a bad thing, it's just a fact.

Ofcourse, everybody who's ever truley known somebody gay knows it isn't a choice, it's not your upbringing either - it's just who you are - one day you realise you are checking out your friends dad instead of their mum and suddenly you think "oh - I'm gay!!". Personally, I'm straight... my younger brother is gay though, and one of my best friends is gay - but none of us have ever had the conversation that maybe the Little Mermaid should have been banging the witch not the prince, or whether Sebastian was a gay sidekick (thinking back, he totally was!).

But these are kids films, and being a kids film, usually it's the parents who will choose the film, and therefore I'm assuming a male/female love interest will sit with their model of suitable content for 7 yr old Sally (if they've had a kid biologically together, and arn't "living a lie") than a lesbian mermaid trying to lick and octo-witch's stamp - basically because it's following their family model... or they've never really thought of it, but also couldn't care less.

Personally, providing it's not covert-porn I'm not going to worry Disney's portrayal of relationships to my boy just yet - but at some point I will sit down with him and have the conversation about relationships, the types that are out there, and that's it's fine either way, and that he shouldn't judge others or worry about being judged (at least by his family) - but that will be when we see he's ready for that, and not when some pressure group decide they want their box ticked in a Disney film.

</ shouty, shouty, shouty>

rant over... continue about your lives. :)

0
0
FAIL

Oh no...

...the 80's Political Correctness brigade is back.

Didn't they learn anything the last time around?

0
0

lion king

anyone remember the lion king?

timone and pumber were a gay couple, however saying that disney has alwsys beeen very close the the far right conservitives...

0
0
WTF?

Grow up!

Well, the knee jerk hetero-centric reaction here tells me how very relevant this study is. Mention any form of sexuality other than hetero and 3/4 of the guys in the room turn into preschoolers!

I agree with MeRp, before wading into the comments here, I was under the impression that the significance of the study was the over idealization of a specific type of heterosexuality. That said, I do feel that that over-normalization is what is (un)informing a lot of the comments here.

@Baying Lynch Mob- took the words right out of my mouth- thanks for that.

0
0
Thumb Up

Hmmm - THE END

@ By Baying Lynch Mob

sorry if i over-reacted but i do not like being called a queer basher etc...

maybe i should have used the word majority over norm - i really didnt think of the semantics.

@"After being reminded that homosexuality occurs naturally, compare it to bestiality/paedophilia" - i mentioned hetro, homo etc in the same sentence and context - so not sure on that one....

personally as a kid i hated anything about relationships - i found it boring as hell, and to be honest i still do in a lot of media. everything comes down to bloody relationships and is crowbarred in at the expensise of any other real story.

0
0
FAIL

There's a difference between "norm" and "non-existent"

I mean, seriously, white people in European countries are the "norm". Non-disabled people everywhere are the "norm". Mind you, there aren't very bloody many of the latter in Disney movies either.

And I'm also tempted to echo the famous remark that just because something is -common-, it ain't necessarily -normal-.

While you're all busy wanking on about the bleeding obviousness of it all, and "art reflecting life", there is that 5-10% of us who are engaged in same-sex relationships. So where ARE they in the Disney movies? Or are queers automatically not rated G by our mere existence?

Also, I'm frigging sick of 99% of female characters being super-girlie, super-skinny and fans of pink. Thank god for Mulan.

0
0
Pint

My 2d...

@Paw Bokenfohr

While your rearing (and I agree that 'bringing up’ might have been a better term) children for others might be a good thing for your society, it does absolutely nothing for the gene pool. If you don't believe me do some research on how to make a contribution to the gene pool.

@all Normal & anti normal

Heterosexual relationships are the norm. On this both religion and Darwinism agree.

@Sexuality is a choice / genetic imperative.

I know two 'gays' very well. One, a relation, has been gay since he could walk. He always exhibited feminine characteristics rather than male. He is now in a settled relationship with another man. The other I knew to have had a number of heterosexual relationships, though not more than usual for a woman her age. She liked her partners and enjoyed the sex that they shared. She made the decision that men were off her agenda and then went exclusively to women. So score one for each side of that argument.

@Expectation management

I agree that the 'happy ever after' needs a bit more work. Did Disney show Mrs. Shrek in labour, swearing at Shrek and threatening to castrate him for doing 'this' to her? Too many women have the idea that marriage = don't have to try any more + free ride for life. And too many men seem to think that they can screw anything in a skirt and then walk away totally free of any consequences. They are both wrong.

@Phix8

“but it sure does annoy the hell out of me when they suddenly want MORE than equal rights” And this would be more damaging to their cause than just being ignored ever would.

@AC - 17:56 GMT

Recommended antidote: a gratuitous beverage of your choice and a rousing chorus of "Kill da wabbit, kill da wabbit..."

I think that this is the most sensible contribution to these comments.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

What a revalation

The majority of films are targeted at the majority. That's how they make money.

0
0
Pint

NORM!

With all this talk of norms, am I really the only one here to be thinking of a bar full of people all shouting 'Norm!' as a fat guy comes into the bar and parks himself on his usual barstool?

0
0

How Do They Get Funding???

Blimey, Guv. - How on earth and who on earth is funding this stuff?

It really does look like the output of people with much too much time on their hands.

0
0
FAIL

Hardly an influence

Regarding these sorts of whinges on "impressing roles" upon kids, I often point out that when I was a lad, I got toy guns for Christmas, and my sister got Barbie dolls. Now, She's in the Army, and I'm a panto dame.

If these films did have that sort of influence, she'd now be a princess, co-habiting with 7 wizened geriatrics, and I'd probably be an axe-wielding wicked queen's bitch. Not the case.

0
0
FAIL

What's more interesting...

...is the blatant racial(racist) stereotyping in kids movies. Be it a bug, a lion, or (as i watched recently) a happy tapping penguin. Taking the penguin as an example the lead was blatantly 'caucasian' in mannerisms, accent etc and protrayed in penguin chick colouring i.e. a white face, throughout the movie despite the timeline for the movie being so long that a real penguin would have long shed their fluff and developed into the usual black faced penguin. His love interest and most of the other 'good' penguins of his type (stereotyped 'Mexican' penguins aside) had the adult colouring and were protrayed as stereotypically 'black' in their accent and mannerisms.

Again, Simba taken alone would be probably be classed as 'white' by an observer shown only his performance. A white African (excluding white South Africans obviously)? Come on Disney, Pixar etc etc is it really that dangerous to have a 'black' character as the lead?

Ccan someone name one animated movie character that is black and has the lead role?

You could of course go into the underlying messages used by most of mainstream cinema i.e. black characters when not the lead usually being the tech expert or mechanic also frequently being disabled in some way, but this is particularly concerning because it's being fed to the most impressionable. (Won't somebody think of the children?!)

0
0
Anonymous Coward

@phix8

"MORE than equal rights"?? I hope to god you were joking. Asking for representation equivalent to reality isn't more than equal, it's *exactly* equal. Put down the Daily Mail and try living in the real world for a while if you think gays have anything even close to equality at the moment.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

@Peter Fielden-Weston 2

i would suspect your friend is bisexual, no? she might have chosen to limit her relationships to one or the other at different points in her life, but i doubt she was attracted to only men then suddenly decided to become attracted to only women.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

@Oddbodd

it's not about influence. heterosexual relationships in a film arent going to turn a gay kid straight any more than homosexual ones will turn a straight kid gay (despite what some people seem to think). what it *does* impress on kids is that heterosexuality is the only way to go, and the only way to find true love and happiness, and if they're feeling attraction towards members of the same rather than the opposite sex then there must be something wrong with them.

0
0
Troll

Actually

all the Disney films do is stop parents having to answer awkward questions from children that wouldn't understand the complexity of the reply. It's not about pro or anti (name your) sexuality, it's about maximising profits. Kids are only interested in simple good v evil stories with a happy ending. The people who are seeing a hidden agenda here are adults not children because for children there is no hidden agenda. Unfortunately most of the comments here seem to be of the childish "I'm right, no I'm right" variety rather than mature adult discussion (imho).

btw Secretgeek, you are so right, have you ever seen Star Wars, The Phantom Menace, JarJar Binks was the most obvious homage to the Blaxploitation films of the '70's that I've ever seen and as a WASP it was embarassing to watch such obvious racial prejudice in a major modern film.

Troll because I'm bound to be treat as one for disagreeing with both sides.

0
0

Re : AC - 12:50 GMT

Maybe she was Bi, however that doesn't change the situation that in her case _she_ made a _choice_. One that may at some point be revoked or may not. It was her _choice_.

0
0
(Written by Reg staff)

Re: Re : AC - 12:50 GMT

Can someone define 'choice', please? A lot of the things we may think we're exercising free will over are actually driven by impulses we can't begin to understand.

0
0
Headmaster

@Sarah Bee and Peter Fielden-Weston2

Please - not the 'free-will vs determinism' debate! Not on ElReg! I couldn't stand it!

I think it's clear what "choice" means in this context. Most of us are either hetero or homo. We can't choose which sex we are attracted to. We may discover which it is (if we have been misled) but there is no choice. If, OTOH, you are bi-sexual then you do have a choice - given to you by your nature. Lucky you!

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Re:The norm

Actually a lot of researchers believe that very few people are entirely gay or straight, and most of us are on a "sexual spectrum". Culture just told us we had to be straight, now it tells us we have to either be straight or gay. I've heard of gay guys who realise later on they are actually bisexual, but they didn't realise because they were so concerned with the social problems still present in coming out as gay.

People often forget the part of society and culture on sexuality, it can have a definite impact along with biology and upbringing. You can argue it's part of upbringing, but it can often be more fundamental than that. Your parents can heavily influence your upbringing, but not the culture and society you learn.

0
0
Silver badge

Choice.

"Can someone define 'choice', please?"

"Choice" is the grade of beef between "prime" and "good" (here in the US, anyway). But I think I'll grill up some chicken legs for supper instead. And that's choice, too.

"A lot of the things we may think we're exercising free will over are actually driven by impulses we can't begin to understand."

Pics, or it never happened.

0
0
WTF?

can't understand my impulses?

""A lot of the things we may think we're exercising free will over are actually driven by impulses we can't begin to understand."

If we can't even begin to understand them, how do you know we're driven by them?

0
0
Headmaster

On 'norms' and 'choice' and sexual orientation

"Actually a lot of researchers believe that very few people are entirely gay or straight, and most of us are on a "sexual spectrum"."

I've heard that, but I'm not sure what they mean by it exactly. Anyway, I'm sure their evidence is dubious. How on earth can you test for something like that?

Anyway, I suspect what they mean is that we are born with a potential for sexual attraction to either/both sexes, not that we remain potentially bi- to some extent when we become sexually developed. By that time we have no choice of sexual orientation, regardless of whether it is inborn or whether it has been engendered by family and social conditions (or both).

0
0
Linux

do you want to be straight, gay, 30/70 or mainly into animals?

"Culture just told us we had to be straight, now it tells us we have to either be straight or gay."

No, you've obviously misunderstood. Culture 'tells' us these things are acceptable, but as anyone who doesn't quite fit this template will know it doesn't determine who you are actually attracted to. It may tell you who you *think* you are attracted to and who you think you *should* be attracted to, but it doesn't create your sexual orientation. Sorry.

That orientation is already determined before you reach puberty. Whether by birth or early childhood experience is uncertain and probably undeterminable. Since the same people are usually responsible for both then the distinction may be moot.

0
0

just to make it clear

"rearing" - that's some sick minds out there if you managed to make this scientific term a doublentendre when I'd been talking about the animal kingdom like penguins etc. Perhaps, as I am Danish originally and English (though being very natural to me now) is still really a second language the word "rearing" is often used to mean gay sex? I've never heard it used thus.

@Peter Fielden-Weston 2:

I never said anything about contributing *my* genes to the gene pool, I merely said that it enhanced genetic diversity (as I am PARENTING [not rearing you will note] two kids from different genetic backgrounds who are getting a better life (I'm pretty sure, at least, all evidence points that way) because of my parenting, they will therefore have a better chance to mate and so pass on their genes leading to more genetic diversity).

Personally, I've no interest (being an evolved life-form with the sentience required to understand that there's nothing special about my genes over anyone elses) in passing on my own genetic material - why should I care in the slightest? - but would rather pass on my memes.

0
0

Page:

This topic is closed for new posts.

Forums

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2018