Sign in / up

back to article Windows 7 and the Linux lesson

You may love Linux or hate it, but when a distribution is complete, there's very little hesitation by commercial operators when it comes to getting the completed operating system out there. The Ubuntu 9.04 release candidate was posted on April 16 with final code promised for seven days later on April 23. The final Ubuntu 9.04 …

COMMENTS

House rules Send corrections
This topic is closed for new posts.

Page:

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    Inapplicable Comparison

    Can't stand windows myself but the comparison is not equitable. Linux distros don't have "final" builds really. They creep on continuously. There may be a "final" code base for 30 seconds or so but after that the fixes, changes, and new notions of how to do something that already works in a more interesting way will commence

    0 0
  2. Martin Owens

    Ubuntu Bashing

    I think the windows fanatics, who despite always claim to be fair and balanced, despite being completely disingenuous about their experience and the expectations of the market, have to always try and pick holes in the quality of Linux, Gnu and the Ubuntu distro in general.

    Take that pillock above who claimed that Ubuntu "won't even support the most basic USB device", had he any clue about how usb works then he may have cottoned onto the fact that all standard USB URBs are supported. And several serial non-standard ones. The most basic usb device is the HID controllers from mice and keyboards, go on, put up or shut up.

    I think we're going to see more of this kind of silly attack as time goes on and the tribe of Microsoft is devalued.

    0 0
  3. steogede

    @Teoh Han Hui

    >> Ubuntu still has a long way to go to catch up to Windows 7 especially when you consider things like user-friendliness. There are significant design oversights, for example you have to get into the terminal to perform simple tasks like changing a volume label. How does that sound?

    I almost fell for that. That really is some subtle sarcasm.

    0 0
  4. Robert E A Harvey
    Linux

    Ubuntu no Windows?

    > Microsoft will say Windows is far more complicated.

    > It has millions more lines of code.

    Isn't that the problem, rather than the point?

    0 0
  5. Charles Manning
    Flame

    What utter bollocks

    Microsoft marketeers don't have to create all their fancy SKU pricing after the code is done. They can do that in parallel, or any time for that matter, and just keep tweaking the pricing if need be.

    After all, major customers don't pay sticker price so the whole pricing structure has to be kept flexible.

    As for the 9.x.... bollocks to that! 8.04 is the best yet, paticluarly if you're using Kubuntu. More recent Kubuntus use thar KDE4.x horror show. KDE3.5 is about as good as it gets.

    As much as I dislike MS products, they do put a lot more effort into testing than many Linux packages.

    0 0
  6. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    What is this "bash it" mentality?

    Maybe it is binary related?

    If one thing is good (eg: 1) then all other things are not good (eg: 0)?

    Can't one say "Yeay! Nice work Canonical! The *bunto's look well and swell."

    And at the same time say "Nice work MS! W7 is looking good."

    And equally "OS 10 is fine can't wait to see OS 11!"

    Does one really need to praise one and disparage all others?

    Is it written in stone, perhaps as an 11th commandment?

    0 0
  7. Deckard
    Paris Hilton

    Ubuntu jockeys

    It always makes me laugh...as soon any the words 'Linux' and 'Microsoft' are metioned in the same article you always have some semi tech literate Digg user that sit there smugly telling the world that 'Ubuntu just works!'

    Fine....as soon as it 'just works' with Exchange, MSSQL server, Sharepoint and other Microsoft products that my customers use, I'll be happy to switch to it and tell all the people that are kind enough to pay my invoices each month the same.

    For a home user, sure...an open source alternative will work for someone that knows what they're doing. For my mother? No. As a business desktop? Not yet....

    Paris because you Ubuntu jockeys will swallow anything too

    0 0
  8. elderlybloke
    Thumb Up

    Ubuntu 9.04

    I have Ubuntu 8.10 on my computer, and I intended to upgrade to 9.04 , but found that quite a lot of people who have done so have got problems.

    Some of them serious, so I will do as was advised to do on the Forums - wait a month before installing.

    I can't complain as it is not costing me an arm and a leg.

    0 0
  9. John Doe

    Re.: What Linux worry?

    You obviously never heard about the HCL.

    Microsoft will only "worry" about hardware on the HCL, if you piece of junk is not on the HCL it is your problem... and you may or may not get the hw manufacturers help.

    0 0
  10. drag

    (Untitted)

    """"

    "However, Windows 7 was finished ages ago. Yes, we had the beta in October - but since then very little in the build appears to have changed. We've had performance improvements and bug fixes, but Microsoft's been on the triage fast track, to the alarm of some early testers."

    Ok lets break this down shall we?

    Win7 being finished? yeah doubtful seeing as its a damn beta. Beta means just that unless you forgot the definition.

    """""

    Ya.. first you have the Alpha, then the Beta, then the Gamma, Delta, Then for a ways later you have the Nu release (this confuses a lot of people), then the Xi, and a few releases later then you have the Pi, Phi, and later on the Psi. Finally you have the Omega.

    What does that get you then.. you loop right around to Alpha and you get:

    Microsoft 7 Alpha and the Omega: DESTROYER OF WORLDS!!!

    """"

    "Yet the evidence speaks for itself."

    Can I see this "evidence" you speak of? Oh right, YOU DONT WORK FOR MICROSOFT. Moving on

    """"

    Ha. He can probably use ThePirateBay.com's search function as well as anybody else. Try it some time. As the people at work say: "Software is the free shit that I run on my computer"

    """"

    Wouldnt you "construct" fancy packaging (ignoring the SKU pricing since that is irrelevant here" to catch the eye of those who are looking for something? Guess you dont care about making a profit eh? And as for the endless meetings you know this how? Oh right its a guess.

    """"

    My guess is that, yes, he doesn't care about turning a profit on Windows 7. He probably cares more about having usable software released on time and writing sarcastic remarks about companies you can't. After all he does write for the Reg.

    I don't really the logic here though. How is Microsoft releasing their software in SKU's going to make him any money? I suppose stranger things have happenned.. like Microsoft convincing people that Windows 7 can run on a netbook.

    """"

    Commodity? Tell me how much of a commodity it is when EVERY GAMER uses it? What about Businesses? And pretty much everyone of the other 88% that use it? Explain how its a commodity please.

    """"

    Main Entry:

    com·mod·i·ty Listen to the pronunciation of commodity

    Pronunciation:

    \kə-ˈmä-də-tē\

    Function:

    noun

    1: an economic good: as a: a product of agriculture or mining b: an article of commerce especially when delivered for shipment <commodities futures> c: a mass-produced unspecialized product <commodity chemicals> <commodity memory chips>

    2 a: something useful or valued <that valuable commodity patience> ; also : thing, entity b: convenience, advantage

    3 obsolete : quantity, lot

    4: a good or service whose wide availability typically leads to smaller profit margins and diminishes the importance of factors (as brand name) other than price

    5: one that is subject to ready exchange or exploitation within a market <stars as individuals and as commodities of the film industry — Film Quarterly>

    Hrm. Mass produced unspecialized product... A good or service whose wide availability typically leads to smaller profit margins... (as in profit margins per unit)..

    Ya Windows is not a commodity at all since everybody uses it.

    """"

    As for IBM's Eclipse, you have firm numbers of how many jumped on board? Whats that? Maybe 1 million? Ok then I guess that most of the worlds population there then.

    """"

    What is a firm number, exactly? Is that opposite of a warbly number? Is '1 million' a firm number or a sort of watery, squishy one?

    How many people use Visual Studio then... The Worlds Population - 1 million Eclipse users? What is that... about 5 billion people (give or take a million)?

    Probably that is a sort of soft number with downy insides that have been kinda urinated on by a kitty in one corner by accident, but is still quite comfortable as long as you point your feet towards that end.

    Windows: 7 Billion Served.

    0 0
  11. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    Re: DRM Still A Core Component?

    @James: given that the end-to-end DRMification of Vista(secure encrippled audio path, tilt bits et al) had to be implemented at the very core of Windows (driver SDK, ... which even led to Creative's sound layers not working any more) and that 7 is only a slight tweak of Vista, the answer should be obvious.

    Even if they actively removed it from the 7 system for now, the similarities in its core model mean that they could reintroduce it in a snap (and once 7 manages to reach critical mass I'd bet they would).

    Or, in other words: the beast is out (== all necessary layers fully implemented and not undoable since they do exist).

    0 0
  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @David Simpson

    "No comment about Snow Leopard how long has that been in beta for now ? since the middle of last year.... funny how that wasn't mentioned, must a slow news day I'd rather be running 7 in three months than Ubuntu now."

    Defend windows by bringing in an innocent bystander to the debate? Fantastic. Solid stuff.

    7 should have been out sooner - it's the release that Vista should have been and, given we'll never see the source code, is likely it's the same code with a few of the more shitty bits ripped out. Arguably there's still no innovation present - the root of the "precious little difference" style of comment.

    If Apple do manage to pull off the ability to integrate into the OS the effective offloading of tasks onto multiple cores (Grand Central) then this really will show up 7/Vista for the shower of shit that it is. Add the fact that they're still pushing a 32-bit OS onto 64-bit architecture and the praise really is the ill-thought diatribe of the indoctrinated. Stockholm syndrome for the OS masses. If Microsoft really wanted to get things moving they should make the next release 64-bit only and put an end to this futility. It's getting pathetic.

    I will agree that comparisons with general desktop Linux are ill conceived (and a touch irritating) - windows has responsibility for millions of corporate desktops, Linux doesn't yet. However, that didn't prevent a fuck up last time. In terms of home users I'm not too sure either party gives much of a shit if your machine gets rooted by an upgrade. Linux is still only ready for those prepared to tinker and its biggest problem is the lack of support for users in the wide world. Try fixing a problem when you can't access ubuntuforums and you'll see what I mean. There's always someone around that can help with windows, whether for better or worse. Tell the average ISP you're running Linux and the shutters come down. The list goes on.

    I think that usability can be an interesting debate as you inevitably compare an ecosystem you are used to with one you are not and then complain the unfamiliar one is different/difficult. Qu'elle surprise.

    As for "I'd rather be running 7 in three months than Ubuntu now", each to their own. But don't complain when you have to roll out the McAffee and other assorted shite that slows down your machine and still get owned because MS still don't do things right. I'll be keeping my data safe on jaundiced jakelope et al.

    OSX for productive use, Linux for data storage, windows for? The office 'cos you're not allowed anything else and some other poor sap has to keep it secure and running?

    0 0
  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What new functionality does Win7 bring?

    I tried the beta, and although I read about the new Libraries feature, I really didn't notice any new functionality at all.

    Yes it may be faster, and the UAC stuff has been backed off a bit, but so far as I can see, it really doesn't offer any new functionality that would compel me to upgrade.

    I'll be sticking with XP for my home machine, and I suspect we won't be rushing out to upgrade at work either. In fact this could more impetus to move to linux on the workstations (it's already having a bit of a groundswell, but this could make it a flood).

    0 0
  14. Jim
    Boffin

    Can't help myself...

    @James O'Brien

    "Lets see here shall we Gavin? Windows has 88% of the market share. *nix (all 50k version of them) has umm lets see has .9% of the market. . .you can find proof here"

    I think you should re-read your 'proof'. I see 9.7% for OS X on your evidence, another OS in the *nix stable.

    "The same cannot be said of Microsoft and Windows."

    "Firs thing here, Windows and Microsoft are 2 different OS'?"

    Welcome to the wonderful world of the English language. The first sentence makes complete sense, when you remember that there are some missing words.

    "The same cannot be said of Microsoft and [their] Windows [OS]."

    As for comapring Windows (a desktop OS that thinks it can be a server too) with Linux (a server OS that thinks it can be a desktop too), a bit apples and oranges imo.

    0 0
  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not really fair

    I love a good MS bash, but I don't think it is fair to go from a general view of "Please don't rush this one and make another mess of it" to "get a bloody move on"

    0 0
  16. James Pickett
    Gates Horns

    Repeat

    "Windows is far more complicated"

    Isn't that the problem? I'm sure Win7 is better than Vista, but then how could it not be? I'm beginning to suspect that it's deliberate MS policy to produce a turkey every other release, so the next one seems like a greater improvement...

    0 0
  17. Neoc
    Stop

    Re: Yes M$ rush it out please.......

    @David Simpson Posted Saturday 25th April 2009 10:20 GMT:

    "Ubuntu has very little plug and play ability with even the most simple USB devices, one of the several reasons I can't be bothered with it"

    ?!?

    OK, I'm neither a Linux Fanboi (I use XP on my desktops and Ubuntu on my servers at home) nor a MS basher (though I loathe having to use Vista on my Laptop. Stupid thing keeps dropping my wireless connection while my other laptop/netbooks happily keep going at the same time).

    Having said that, I do have two EEE netbooks running Ubuntu 7.09 and 8.04 respectively and have plugged all sort of USB items into them without a hiccup (although it sometimes takes a while for Ubuntu to recognise the device).

    We're talking USB keys, a 3G modem, digital cameras (still and video), a hand-held GPS, and various portable HDDs ranging from 40Gb up to 1Tb (someone explain to me why Ubuntu can format a 1Tb NTFS HDD much faster than Vista. I don't bother using MS to format my HDDs any more, I just mount them on a USB caddy and have a netbook format them). I haven't plugged in a USB printer, but since the EEEs successfully recognised (and configured) the printers over the network, I assume they'd recognise the devices if plugged in directly.

    So personally I cannot understand what you are complaining about. Exactly what "most simple devices" are you having troubles with?

    0 0
  18. The Fuzzy Wotnot
    Linux

    Stop stirring it! You use what works for you!

    The biggest hurdle is not usability but Western thinking. "If it's free it has to be crap! No one puts in a load of hard work for nothing, then gives it away! Something dodgy going on here, so no thanks, I'll rip this one off it's supposed to cost at least £150, so it must be better!".

    That's where MS rides the wave to fame, fun, glory and ultimately, cash.

    Linux, take it or leave it ! No one has really cared before, not many average PC users really much now. They might try a free CD distro just to say they have used it, but they will soon scuttle back to Uncle Billy, which is entirely their choice, it's still mostly a free country with regards certain choices.

    I love OSX and Linux, but you use what works for you, horses for courses, live and let live!

    0 0
  19. paul
    Flame

    Winblows

    "simple tasks like changing a volume label."

    Thats a really simple task for my mum.

    A) She doesn't know what a volume is (its not to do with sound)

    B) What a label is (whats in a name?)

    C) Why would she want to do that anyway?

    Besides you dont have to go into the terminal to do that anyway...............(again more myths)

    Jaunty is pretty neat - hardware support much better and lots and lots of bugfixes , pulseaudio now it works properly is great. +1 feature for linux

    0 0
  20. Steve
    Thumb Up

    it makes sense

    This product (Windows) has to be used by idiots they freak out when it does something different to the norm. That's why all the testing.

    But I'm not one of them so why am I waiting for this limbo to end? Perhaps I should be using Linux, it's a grown up OS which has a development cycle which makes sense and is open which makes sense .

    0 0
  21. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    linux fanbois = fkin idiots.

    linux is crap plain and simple so shut your bitching and moaning. yes ubuntu is pretty but it stops there. i mean they still havnt even fixed the overscan issues on large screens in linux nor have they added any decent driver support. i no il plug my webcam in. ubuntu sits there and does guess what exactly NOTHING. not even bloody detected. fire up windows 7 plug same webcam in. less than 15 seconds later its fully installed and running on msn messenger. face it linux boys your arguments are invalid linux is a p.o.s unless you need to host a website.

    Perhaps if the linux fanbois spent less time trying to tell everybody how good linux was and actualy sat down and did some research they would realise just how retarded they sound to the average user who does actualy have some braincells upstairs. Just shut up.

    Everytime a story is posted containing the word windows all you stupid little fanboi freetards start acting like Jehovah's Witnesses trying to force your utter rubbish down my throat.

    0 0
  22. Rob Stiles

    Lesson Learned?

    After releasing the shear CRAP that was Windows Vista, Microsoft's reputation has been severely damaged. I'm glad they're taking their time with Windows 7. I'd rather have the OS later and it work than have another Vista fiasco.

    0 0
  23. Greg

    @Daryl, Alex, other berks

    "As for Ubuntu having a release candidate for only 7 days hardly gives any time for testing"

    Unless you've had 6 alphas, a beta, and finally the RC, and your user testbed/development team consists of about a gabazillion* people.

    *More than a shitload, less than everyone.

    0 0
  24. Focused Wolf
    Black Helicopters

    Ofcourse Windows 7 is done

    The first "7" betas were simply Vista (that incredibly stable OS that i can't say enough good things about)... so to say Vista sucks but to say "7" is better... ARE PEOPLE REALLY THAT STUPID? Your running the same code! In fact Windows 7 will have more features then Vista and everyones gonna call it bloated and Vista lean... OMG IT'S HAPPENING AGAIN... EVERYONES GONNA STAY WITH VISTA BUT SHIT ON 7 UNTIL MICROSOFT FIXES 7 TO BE MORE LIKE VISTA, AND STILL NOT BUY IT,.... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    0 0
  25. Anonymous Coward
    Pirate

    'They used to have a pool table in here'

    Jo Brand once said this was the best heckle she ever had.

    Thats for the fanbois on all sides.

    0 0
  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Andy Barber

    Never heard of XP64?

    0 0
  27. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    @Adrian Challinor

    You must lead a charmed life. I have upgraded two PCs from 8.10 to 9.04 and in both cases Samba was hosed. I have them working again but I think that it was by fluke, and I am not the only person to have issues with Samab on 9.04; loads of us are.

    Quite why the Linux world wants to make networking operations so arcane and hard to configure is beyond me.

    I would as far to say that is you have a previous version that is stable - DO NOT UPGRADE to 9.04. It isn't ready.

    0 0
  28. Peter Kay
    Jobs Halo

    @Wolf - the 'same code' stupidity

    No, of course it's not the same fucking code. It's the old code, improved.

    In the vast majority of cases throwing out the code is The Wrong Thing To Do. Throwing out the code should only be necessary when the initial design was utterly broken or the system is now unmaintainable.

    There's no guarantee that new code will have any less bugs than the old code. Identify which bits of the code are broken or slow and fix or replace them. Leave the rest alone.

    You obviously havent used Windows 7, because even the beta is substantially less memory hungry and uses less disk space than Vista. Not that it was really a problem for Vista after SP1 either - for 32bit get 2GB, for 64bit get 4GB. Problem solved - memory is dirt cheap.

    Can we please stop having this idiotic argument. Windows 7 isn't new code, neither is OS X Snow Leopard, or any of the upcoming releases of Linux or *BSD. 'All new code' OSses are buggy, limited, incompatible and usually slow.

    0 0
  29. Adam White

    Release to Manufacturing

    I don't think this is really about Windows vs Ubuntu. It's about Windows vs Microsoft. Windows 7 is done. Ready. Feature complete. Next week's release _is_ the final version as far as Microsoft, and a lot of non-casual users, are concerned. Anything changes that come after the RC will be no different, from a technical perspective, than a Service Pack.

    And yet Microsoft's right hand is still claiming it will be at least another 8 months(!) before Windows 7 goes on sale. Their corporate policy seems to be inspired by their famous progress bar which gets to "0 seconds remaining" and stays there for half a minute while the hard drive thrashes. The presumed reasons for all this are all reasonably well expounded in Mr Clarke in the article.

    0 0
  30. Eduard Coli
    Gates Horns

    Beastly

    Microsoft does open source its code already, they have multi-million dollar campus' in exotic locales where the water is bad and the labour is cheap like Vietnam, China and of course India.

    The problem with Vista hardware support was that it is very expensive these days to become certified so many manufactures gave M$ the finger and either just didn't support the hated Vista or went round by other means.

    .

    0 0
  31. Unlimited
    Linux

    @ David Simpson

    To get my Ubuntu install to use a brand new HP printer I had to:

    Plug in the USB cable.

    Time taken: 20 seconds or so

    To get my Vista install to use the same printer I had to:

    Plug in the USB cable

    + Install all manner of junk from the HP CD

    Time taken: 10 mins

    0 0
  32. Bob. Hitchen

    I won't be buying it

    It's that simple XP with all its bloat already does all the things I want only mugs update. I run Ubuntu never given me a problem on what I use it for. Oh and it's free like costs nothing. Yes Linux is a more technical product but being an ex techie that's part of its charm. Only MS windows ap I run is spider soltaire. It's got a lot like those make up advertisements all BS

    0 0
  33. Gareth Williams
    Unhappy

    Please make it stop.

    I can't take it any more. Too many idiots spouting misinformation and general bullshit, like the AC on Mon 27th April @ 09:23.

    Is Windows better than Linux? Is OS X better than Windows? Is Linux better than OS X? Frankly, my dear, I don't give a shit. I use whatever suits me (in my case it's Windows for gaming, OS X on my Mac Mini media centre, Linux for pretty much everything else). Each OS has its advantages and disadvantages - decide which is best for you and use that. Don't worry about what other people should be using.

    I thought El Reg was frequented by those who understand technology. Too many of the comments to this article make me think that the average age of the authors isn't in double figures (and neither is their IQ).

    Let's stop the 'my dad is bigger than your dad' school playground pettiness and get on with much more important things instead. Such as which celeb is gonna get their Crackberry hacked next, etc...

    0 0
  34. Jeff
    Thumb Down

    Taking lessons from Ubuntu - Ugh, no!

    I'm no Windows fan, but comparing Windows and Ubuntu release cycles is silly, because all distributions of Linux - of which Ubuntu has the most regular releases, I think - feature vast improvements in multiple areas of system, most of which have not been contributed to by the distributor. Windows is an entirely in-house OS, and Microsoft can't afford to further frustrate its users by releasing system-breaking enhancements every 6 months.

    Also, three times now I've upgraded Ubuntu via the update distro button, and twice I was left with a broken system. That doesn't bother me too much as I know what I'm doing, but your average prole is going to be left with an expensive paperweight.

    0 0

Page:

This topic is closed for new posts.

Other stories you might like