Lights out, Britons told - we're running out of power

@"The culminaton of 11 years of screwing up...."

We voted them in. THREE TIMES.

It is our fault.

DARPA?

Maybe they hold the answer and we should look to them to fund some giant heat-pipe/straw we can poke into the sun?!?

Actually, now I think about it I may have a solution...all be it inspired from the Matrix. What problems do we face in the UK:

- overcrowded prisons

- overburdened benefits system

- elongated lifespan

So my theory is this, for all prisoners doomed to die in jail we place them in a small capsule just like in the matrix and use them as batteries...see where I am going with this?? yes...

Next of course are the layabouts, instead of them gettign benefits for doing odd-jobs like filling all the fucking potholes in on my estate they get to sit and watch Jeremy Kyle...plug them in too!

Then finally the aging population, well once retired it isn't like they offer any more ROI (at least not for the government), most of them are just sat in a home all day shitting themselves anyway...plug them in!

Problem solved...anyone with me? No?! oh...

this is the first time

that I've seen *any* figure published on what proportion of ones energy bill goes on lighting. I'm all for cleaner and less wasteful energy use, but of late I've become very sceptical about "green solutions", specifically the change to CFL bulbs (and, indeed, the moves to make carbon filament bulbs illegal). I'm happy to have finally come across some estimate of how much the normal bulbs consume, but it really begs the question of what the other 80% of leccy bills goes on, and why aren't we focusing on the 80% rather than the 20%?

Of course, I'm also sceptical about how energy consumption breaks down between domestic and commercial use. Who are the real energy hogs, in other words? Maybe my scepticism is misplaced, and maybe domestic users are really to blame, and maybe lightbulbs are the best way to reduce that burden. But I must say that any "green" spokesman I've heard has done a piss-poor job of backing up their claims with actual, solid statistics. As a Parthian shot, I'll just suggest that this is because these quangos and politicos are, themselves, powered by hot air.

Stupid inefficient businesses

You can't tell me that the best way to make savings is to make people switch to energy saving lightbulbs when you see shops and office lights left on overnight (which aren't energy efficient) and all day, they've got their air conditioning on. My office has its air conditioning on all year round.. Why? Because it gets too hot because all the computers are left on 24/7/365. Yet it's the general public, not the businesses causing the shortages. Hmmm

What's the problem?

Sorry, what's the problem? These are the same guys who are telling us that we are going to be roasting hot with runaway global warming in a couple of years. We won't need to heat our homes any more. All the power we save on heating our homes can be used to light them.

The increased CO2, heat, and precipitation will boost the plant-life, so we can feed the hungry and burn the rest of the crop as fuel (bio-diesel).

So you see, we are heading for a virtual utopia.

re: EU bashing

The EU is not responsible for the quango or the government's inability to plan for reduced energy consumption. What qualifications does Peter Lilley, MP have to comment on the subject?

Like many things (air, water) it is difficult to make energy a purely national issue and as the UK is running out of everything but coal and is, therefore, dependent upon energy imports of one form or another. What the EU has recognised, at least The Economist seems prepared to acknowledge it, is that the free market is one of the best ways to tackle climate change. This is why liberalisation of energy distribution is being pursued, er, so energetically as it will encourage greater efficiency in both supply and demand. As Amory Lovins has argued for over twenty years: reducing consumption is cheapest way to increase supply.

As for "energy saving" lightbulbs I wish there were reclassified as "light-saving" ones as they rely largely on an optical illusion. Plus the current generation of mercuy-soaked fluroescent tubes is likely to be superseded by LED based ones.

@El Reg - where's the European icon for this wine,beer&slivovice-swilling, garlic-chewing Euro-lover?

Energy Saving Trust

I asked a similar question to the person replied to in the article, and I had my reply in less than 24hrs.

Apparently the reason we should use energy saving bulbs is that using electricity is a less efficient method of space heating than gas, they claimed that it's 2.7x more carbon intensive and 3.5x more expensive to heat your home using electricity. Those seem like reasonably good reasons to me!

My personal take on the idea of new nuclear stations is a big no thanks; if you let private companies build and operate it, you can pretty much bet that they'll choose the cheapest quote and the cheapest staff to operate it. Even if you can design a 100% safe nuclear plant, having corners cut whilst it's built and when it's being operated greatly increases the accident risk IMO. Also I know exactly what'll happen when those new plants come up for de-comissioning; the company that made the obscene profits from the operation phase will suddenly go bankrupt, leaving us, the taxpayer, to foot the bill as usual.

@Paul Rhodes 12:33 GMT

" Anyone think the US would shut down power stations and leave themselves at a disadvantage.."

Why yes, yes I do think they would. In fact they did. It was done by Enron, and lead to rolling blackouts and hugely expensive 'leccy. And (surprise!) it was done during a conservative, pro-business, anti-regulation government.

Piratical free enterprise forever! Arrr!

@Anonymous Coward: Not Simple

As a recent retiree of 32 years in the commercial power industry (USofA), I can assure you it's not that simple. Power plants age rapidly, require enormous amounts of money for maintenance and repair, and environmental legislation is making running them less and less profitable. Yes, the companies are there to generate a profit. If you want only government run plants, not-for-ptofit plants well, then you still have the funding problem and other problems brought about by them being run by the govern-ment.

A power plant is not like a car. They run 24/7 and the idea of just keep running them is foolish, ill conceived, and points to a position of nothing short of gross ignorance.

The problem you blokes have is the same the rest of the world has: everybody wants the power but nobody wants to pay the price and God forbid they be built near me!

The solution is to have had more plants in the pipeline starting 20 years ago. That didn't happen so here we are. But if you believe you have the solution I encourage you to call the power company of your choice and offer your services. I'm sure they'll be very open to you solving all their supply problems.

<end of thread>

Greentards won't be happy

Until we're all living back in caves and the carbon credits have transferred what little we had into someone else's hands.

Mike Richards - And you can buy delicious free-range organic whale.

Glad I had finished lunch when i read that or it would have been all over the sceen.

Now, the only one we haven't heard from on this is the OMFG WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF URANIUM for Uranus (ok, i did that on purpose) person. No, we're not out; yes, we can make more fissionable material. Yes, if they are safely designed and run they're quite reliable technology no matter who doesn't want them in their backyard. Eventually it will come down to the whingers wanting their 'leccy so you KNOW something will be done. the real question is: will it be done right, in a timely manner, and at a proper cost. (and yes, that's just one question).

Usual target-stuffing

The reason why the electricity suppliers have been sending us CFL lightbulbs is it's the cheapest way ot meet the Govt "energy saving" targets. They are *supposed* to be paying for loft and cavity wall insulation, but the bulbs are cheaper.

So far, every man, woman and child in the UK has two free CFL bulbs.

@Ash

_WE_ didn't do anything -- I have never voted for this bunch of criminals and nor, as far as I know, have any of my friends and family.

Unfortunately a bunch of easily duped fucktards, who seem to make up the majority of the population, did -- and now we have to suffer along with them.

Energy Saving Bulbs

I started replacing filament bulbs with compact fluorescents in 1996, when they were expensive to buy and took awhile to reach full brightness. I even remember listening to the 1998 World Cup by candlelight, because the early CFLs also used to interfere with MW radio.

The last time I visited my mother's house, she had a light fixture in her kitchen with four 35W Halogen bulbs. That's as much electricity for one room as the whole of my freaking house!

Filament bulbs *need* to be banned. They truly are an idea whose time has been and gone.

Oh, and AC: Burning rubbish to generate electricity *is* (almost) carbon-neutral since it's (mostly) not fossil fuel derived; the exception being mixed plastics such as those nasty "fake foil" (aluminised polyester) crisp packets. The majority of burnable waste is either plant matter (whose carbon originally came from CO2 in the atmosphere, which was broken down as the plant grew) or animal matter (whose carbon originally came from plants, and quite recently so). The opposition to it comes *not* from Europe (where it's actually a fairly widespread practice; the EU would be well in favour of us burning more rubbish, as long as we did something useful with the heat liberated like use it for generating electricity or heating nearby homes and factories as opposed to sticking it straight up a chimney) but from idiots who basically don't understand science.

BERR's answer

This is the page that BERR referred to to answer the question how they are going to

fill the gap. Can anyone see the answer, I cannot;

http://www.berr.gov.uk/energy/reliability/quality-continuity-supply/index.html

The Best Way

to cut back on carbon output is sign up to get natural gas from Russia. That's what the rest of the EU has done.

And this is news?

I have on about this for years. I remember the last time the Government failed to keep the lights on. They didn't have power for long either.

This country is a joke

Our lives are ruled by thieves and liars. The punchline? We just roll over and take it. Our Continental Cousins would have started burning sheep by now and yet all we do is grumble weakly in between general elections that we probably won't vote in. I've always enjoyed visiting The Reg and reading Private Eye but lately I haven't been laughing as much. The Government works for the public. The Police work for the public. Terrorism and Financial Meltdowns are just a smokescreen for the biggest act of non-consensual group sodomy ever witnessed in history. Our lives and our country have been sold out by yes-men to a gang of greedy sociopaths. DNA databases, Green taxes, anti-terror laws - soon it will be mass unemployment and power cuts. I just hope it is very long, hot summer.

Mines the one with the New Model Army album in the pocket

Thanks Gov!

I've been reading about this for a while - i believe we are almost in the situation now as the grid only just supplies enough for peak hours.

The problem I have is Gordon and Tony fucked up and nether came up with any real alternatives. Reneables are great but we need nuclear. Eon just made a new "green" gas station (a few months back) so we could in theory convert stations but we would have a cross-over gap (we cannot just turn the stations off now to convert them to "green" gas).

We rely on gas from Norway (I believe Brtain doesn't use Russian gas). I believe we could buy energy from France (nuclear energy should be cheap though not as cheap as coal/gas). We import coal from other countries (Thatcher made sure to that in the 1980's).

I can't wait until the next election as this will possibly be when the crisis is looming (knocking on the door).

BTW local councils are being forced to look into energy efficiency - can I go into detail if you wish?

Anon as I work in a council and I like my job (well - like is too strong a word but in these times and all).

power degeneration strategy

I dont think private companies like E.On will have any choice about closing down power stations under EU direction, so the government-of-the-day-when-it-hits-the-fan will have to either get a late opt-out or else acquire (buy or nationalise) the relevant stations before they're closed. So, probably end up swapping this new opt-out for one of the existing ones.

THATCHER'S LEGACY

Someone wrote that Thatcher did what was necessary to save this country. Actually, Thatcher set this country up for the economic crisis it is now facing. Thatcher started the massive de-industrialisation of Britain, sending manufacturing abroad and forcing this country to rely heavily on the financial industry (it was Thatcher and Reagan who began transforming the global financial system so that massive speculation - rather than investment! - could take place) - we are now reaping what she sowed back then.

Thatcher was happy to create unemployment and homelessness, while enacting costly tax cuts. The result of that was hundreds of billions of pounds that this country could have had as a sovereign wealth fund. North Sea oil revenues are what saved this country in the 1980s, and are what kept the Conservatives in power.

Under Thatcher we also experienced high interest rates.

"New Labour" was the answer to Thatcher because too many voters were enamoured with Thatcher's selfish individualism, not realizing it was oil revenues that permitted this selfishness to gain traction in the first place. "New Labour" embraced Thatcher's policies, continued them, and we are now seeing the result.

If the Tories win power again, don't kid yourself this country will be "rescued" - things will get very nasty and ugly, indeed. Things will be very different this time around.

Bring back the three day week

Sorry.... what was that .... most of our elected and none elected representatives are already on it???

Paris because she likes a long one most mornings ............... lie in stupid!

Screwed !

Let's face it we're all screwed anyway. The sensible thing would be to build new more efficient power stations with the part of the design specification that they have to be easy to dismantle AS WELL. Pay people to return glass & plastic bottles by there being a deposit on them like in the old days. Enforce laws on packaging whereby manufacturers & retailers have make their packaging minimal AND easy to recycle. Replace plastic bags with paper bags. Allow people to drop their rubbish off with the council instead of sending them away because they use a trailer & not a saloon car. Use all those Government & business computers that are left on overnight or long enough to start the screen saver to run simulations & nationally / socially relevant equations which can advance British energy saving, renewable s, farming, emit ions, electronics & power supply sciences. Remove the passport Tag em' & make them live in a council house on benefit in Consett, any M.D. of a power company who puts their own interest above that of the National Good. Foreign M.D's, issue an Iranian type fatwah against them for the murder of all the old people that die of exposure in the winters they were in charge.

Lower the price of Beer so everyone can huddle up in the Local Pub instead of heating their house & having to distil their own potato Vodka on their back yard. Make it a condition of employment for all politicians & senior Civil Servants to have to travel by Public Bus.

Non of this will happen though, it's easier to blame joe public for not switching his landing light off because he's afraid of being burgled while he's out.

Nuclear and UK national interest

Hey, um, how many uranium mines do you guys in the UK have? If it's zero, and you rely on nuclear, then another country has still got you by the short and curlies?

Easy solution

Just start building new nuclear power now. Unlike coal, oil or gas, they produce no pollution and do not run on fossil fuels. Unlike windmills, they actually produce a decent amount of energy, use up significantly less space, and work on calm days.

We could also have environ-mentalist power - round them all up and throw them into a furnace, so they do a bit of good for the world.