back to article MP wants Welsh text on ID cards

Llanelli MP Nia Griffiths has called for the national identity card to include Welsh text. New technologies provide many ways to make services bilingual, said the Labour MP on 3 February 2009, and using Welsh on identity cards would send a clear message that the language has equal validity with English. A supporter of …

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Pirate

Re: "Wales is no more a country that Yorkshire."

>True, everyone knows Yorkshire is a republic.

>

God's own republic I will have you know

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Gold badge

Re: Easy solution

An excellent idea, but I fear it is too elegant for the brainless drones in Wacky's hive. I expect they are hoping to include an inspiring national motto on the card, so there just *has* to be some text there, darling.

"Or, if you must have human readable text, name & relevant numbers / dates."

Those dates would be in ISO format, of course, and the name would be in whatever script was appropriate. (I'm sure there are thousands of people in the UK who resent having to butcher their name into Latin script.)

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Joke

WTF

"New technologies provide many ways to make services bilingual"

Any does anyone know how many cunning linguists they will have to hire to read and interpret these things?

Never mind any argument about how it gets pronounced...

Idiots

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or..

just scrap the whole shite-infested ID card scam.

Problem solved.

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RW
Happy

Ooooooooh, good idea!

How to defeat Wakki Jakki's stupider ideas: she and those around her seem to be keen on every cockamamie bit of PC nonsense they run across. From now on, whenever the Home Office announces some braindead initiative or plan (is there any other sort?), the assembled horde should start picking it apart because it doesn't support minority langues, isn't disabled-friendly ("My auntie has no fingers; ID cards need to have a string she can pull with her teeth. Whassa matter, you have something agin' the disabled, dear Jackie?"), isn't in Braille, is subtly homophobic (the mere accusation without specifics should be good for a Chinese firedrill or two at Whitehall), insults vegans, isn't safe for children, emits evil chemical fumes, has too large a carbon footprint, panders to pedos, and so on and so forth, ad infinitum nauseamque.

Smiley icon will have to substitute for "evil grin".

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Thumb Up

Excellent - the world's biggest ID Card

stuff the credit card format; it's got to be poster-sized to be politically correct.

Hilarious.

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Use Latin, written in Braille

That way everyone is unhappy, apart from a handful of Finns, and who cares if they are happy.

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@Sarah Bee

> Maybe they'll eventually scrap them on the basis that they can't afford that much card.

Damn, I was just about to post a comment saying I supported the idea of this for precisely the same reason!

The more obstacles placed in the way of this ridiculous scheme the better.

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Anonymous Coward

Let the Welsh pay for it then

They want it, then let 'em pay for it.

With pound notes printed only in English!

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Paris Hilton

Official Languages

Actually does anyone know what the OFFICIAL languages of the UK are?

Well... in Scotland, its English and Gaelic

in Wales, its Welsh and English

in England, well, actually its not set in law...

I'm all for regional ID cards, especially as those for about 50,000,000 of the population will be blank...or has Fuhrer Jaqui not realised this...given that she's not realised many things....?

Maybe the ID cards in English could be printed in Normal French and Danish?

And for all those moaning about Welsh and Gaelic etc...the French are bloody good at protecting their own culture and language, SO WHY DON'T WE??!!! Oh year, forgot, culture in the UK is binge drinking, Al Qaeda paedophiles and believing the Daily Mail... :)

Paris...well I'm sure she'd like a cunning linguist...sorry, that was too easy!

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Anonymous Coward

I've heard of Wales

It's somewhere in the West Country, isn't it?

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Anonymous Coward

@ Re: "Wales is no more a country that Yorkshire."

>>True, everyone knows Yorkshire is a republic.

>God's own republic I will have you know

Never has there been a more convincing case for atheism.

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Flame

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

. . . and the horse on which into town you rode.

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Happy

American English?

Ah, yes. The purity of English.

A concept with which I'm well acquainted.

"The problem with defending the purity of the English Language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." -- James D. Nicoll

We could always adopt Strine, though I'm sure there are those who would prefer all official business to be conducted in Fraffly.

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ian

Re: Urdu

"The French are always just desperate to persuade someone to speak it."

Yes- so they can sneer at your pronunciation.

Will no one think of the deaf cockney speakers, gov? What about ID cards for them?

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Unhappy

Rhyddid i Gymru

Ar ôl darllen y holl rwtsh gan ein ffrindiau dros Clawdd Offa yma, yr unig peth rydw i am ddweud yw - RHYDDID I GYMRU - a chyn gynted ag sy'n bosib! Wedyn wrth gwrs, mae'r holl cwestiwn o ba iaith i roi ar gardiau hunaniaeth Cymreig yn gwbl academaidd oherwydd ni fydd cardiau hunaniaeth yng Nghymru Rhydd beth bynnag!

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Coat

No need for any text

There's no need for any text on the ID card - it just needs a set of coloured shapes.

In fact the last attempt to unify europe even created a nice table of them.

Unfortunately green triangle is already used (habitual criminal) - so we need a new one for 'person who put their recycling out on the wrong day'

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Re:Let the Welsh pay for it then

I don't care what language its printed in, I wont be getting one.

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Anonymous Coward

No point

As there will be no cards to put it on, given that the next (most likely anyway) government is committed to abandoning them.

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Dozey Bitch!

And this dozey bitch will doubtless pick up the tab for the extra translation services which will certainly be involved! BLX! Gary

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Coat

They should learn to speak the national language

So, when are the bloody Anglophones in Wales going to knuckle down and get on with it?

Yep, the one that knows which country it's in, and what the relevant national language is.

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why french ?

French will be on the ID card as it's also on the photo bit of the passport. From looks of prototypes, using the same design.

I say have any language you want to the card - not as if they're going to implement them.

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Dead Vulture

Dim Disco Heno

Everyone has the right to be governed in the language they speak- I think that's been a tenet of English law for about 600 years now...

Saying that a language is dead over and over again doesn't make it so- Welsh is still a living language and for a lot of people it's their first or preferred language. It's growing its spoken base now, after years of forced decline at the hands of the English authorities (cf "Welsh Knot"). Children speak it in school and at home, and you can hear it being openly used by people across the country. 38% of under 15s in Wales can speak and understand Welsh, while at least 20% of the population as a whole can (2001 census results published in 2003).

Being a principality doesn't stop somewhere being a country or a nation- it just means it isn't a kingdom or a republic or some other political designation.

I'm looking forward to my children learning Welsh, English, and hopefully more languages- it should serve to make them better adapted to European life.

And those pound notes and coins? Manufactured within Wales (on crown land, apparently) and then exported to England... But you knew that.

Now, ID Cards- they stink, and I told my MP why they stink, and he said that he had to vote for them anyway. Thanks a lot for that Kim- good to know you still have the backbone that you showed during the miners' strike...

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Flame

She's got a point...

To all those putting the boot in, Welsh is an official (minority) language of the UK. Along with Scots Gaelic, Cornish etc. This should mean that it gets treated in the same way as English in those areas where it's spoken. Accordingly, I think she's got a point...

Personally, I think the best thing to put on an ID card is a couple of sticks of dynamite...

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Anonymous Coward

They should learn to speak the national language

Now were have I heard that one before ??. I'm and tired of being told I should learn to speak Spanish. What pisses me off is when people can speak English but refuse to ..

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Joke

What about

The Anglo-Saxon speakers? Even Wikipedia has a wiki for them(ang.wikipedia.org). They'll need both runic and Latin lettering.

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Boffin

Re: Why French?

@Sweep 16:10 GMT "Why are they planning on having French on a UK card? and not, for instance, Spanish, German or American English."

<sigh> and all it would take is a little bit of learning....

I will try to be brief: until recently (historically speaking), the language of Diplomacy was French. The Lingua Franca (lit. French language... but in Italian, go figure) adopted across the world for Diplomats to understand each other regardless of where they were from. From such Halcyon days come words like Passport, Parole, etc... With the advent of WWII (and to a lesser degree WWI), the influence of the USofA rose and English became the language you wanted to speak if you wanted to deal Internationally (which is why Air Traffic communications are always in English, for example).

HOWEVER... Since Passports (a derivative of the French Passeport, lit. an item that allowed you to go through ports) existed well before WWII, they were generally written in French. And this idiosyncrasy has stayed with us - regardless of which country you are from, your Passport will very likely include all headings in both your local language and in French (unless you're from a Francophone country). And this is not limited to passports - just for fun I went and got an International Driver's Licence and it, too, contains French headings.

Frankly, I find this touch of a bygone era to be a nostalgic reminder of nicer days... from before you were required to drop trousers and bend over every time you want to board a plane.

So the inclusion of French on your paperwork has nothing to do with the EU, and everything to do with World History. Which, from the comments on this board, quite a few people should make themselves more familiar with.

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Coat

@Nigel Callaghan - Rhyddid i Gymru

As the only Welsh I've come across is 'Araf' (and why do they insist on writing it all over the roads like it's the Tour de France?) I foolishly tried an on-line translationat InterTran. The result was:-

Signs ôl read the all rubbish with our friends over Hedge Offa here , he drives only thing I am being I about say is FREEDOM I she persuading I go chyn soon with who ' is heartburn possible! Afterwards of course , he ' is being group all question he ba language I give signs cards identity Welsh wholly academic because we he will be cards identity in would forbear He Gives thing -ever!

I was no wiser than when I read the original. It comes out as the illigitimate love child after the union of aManfromMars and the Rant of the Week.

The only thing that comes to mind after that is that you'd better find a small Welsh child to stick their finger in Offa's Dyke. It's obviously leaking.

Mine's the une avec le Frenglish dictionaire sur la pochet.

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ID Card Trial?

Perhaps the Welsh just got volunteered to be the trial area for the roll-out of ID cards? That way they can have them printed only in Welsh. Then once the general uselessness has been demonstrated because no one else can understand what the cards are for, we'll all be better off. As the Welsh population is smaller than the Scottish, it would be cheaper than using HMG's usual proving ground for crap ideas.

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They aren't?

you mean the welsh don't already have them? they're allowed to roam free? unchecked? unsupervised? oh the horror! will no-one think of the sheep?

and put the cards in comic sans, they won't look any sillier.

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Tom
Happy

A compromise?

How about using a celtic font style? So it looks Welsh?

That way everyone's happy!

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Flame

@ Nigel Callaghan

Dwi'n cytuno hefo pob dim oeddet ti'n ddeud. Mae ffasgiaeth amlwg y sylwadau yma wedi fy syfrdanu a fy siomi. Prysured y dydd pan fydd Llywadraeth Cymru'n medru penderfynu ar y materion hyn drosti hi ei hun.

Diolch am o leiaf un cyfraniad cadarnhaol.

Peter

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Anonymous Coward

@Magani

Nigel, like many nationalists, seems to think that by using a language the majority of people on this board won't understand, he's outsmarting the English. Oh yeah, he stuck it to them *gooood*....

@ian :

>"The French are always just desperate to persuade someone to speak it."

>Yes- so they can sneer at your pronunciation.

Indeed. Just like the Welsh, in my experience.

@ ArfinGreebly :

Nice cut'n'paste job there. But what were you actually trying to say? Flaming the Welsh or non-Welsh? Inquiring minds - well, don't care, really. Try just using Llanfair P.G. in future; you'll impress people with your local knowledge.

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Anonymous Coward

A title is not required

All so academic...there's no way Labour are going to win the next election, which means the Tories will get in, who have already said they'll drop the scheme when they get in.

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Happy

This is going to be BIG

Well, the card will be anyway.

Name:

Huw G. Rection

D.O.B

1/2/69

Address:

123 Myfanwy Rd

LLANFAIRPWLLGWYNGYLLGOGERYCHWYRNDROBWLLLLANTYSSILIOGOGOGOCH

How big will this card have to be to contain the place names in Wales?

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Anonymous Coward

(untitled)

Abomination though they are, ID cards are associated with modern high tech, not ancient languages that are being propped up on their death bed. Still, maybe we've underestimated Nia, who might be trying to apply a death blow to the cards for us all :-)

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Black Helicopters

bigger is better for the ID card enforcers

"by the time all the languages are on there the "ID Card" becomes a huge parchment that takes a half hour to unfold for the filth and needs to be carried in a rucksack."

That's OK - that just means it's easier for Plod to check you're carrying it AT ALL TIMES!

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xjy
Paris Hilton

Government & People

If the Government is so pissed off with the people, why doesn't it just dissolve it and elect a new one?

(Paris cos she's rather nice when she dissolves....)

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Jobs Halo

so now -

we except ID cards..... we are just debating the languages to use on them?????

I THINK NOT - WE DONT WANT THEM

FFS LISTEN TO YOUR VOTERS....

stevie-boi cos he gives the public what they want aswell.... NOT

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Silver badge
Go

Title?

"Wales is no more a country that Yorkshire." - Isn't Yorkshire getting a seat on the UN Security Council soon?

@Nigel Callaghan

A good point, well-made, I'm sure, but Babelfish doesn't have a Welsh->English option. Personally, I like Wales, because it's the only country that's passed a law that my name must be displayed in places of entertainment and certain road signs.

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@ Magani

Lol!!! Nice translation there ;)

I think Araf means slow or stop or something like that but yeah you're right it's all over the place!

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@ No need for any text (AC)

No need for any text - excellent post. In case anyone wonders what's being talked about ... it's the Concentration Camp and other use of symbols. 'Asocial' is a good catch-all!

I think that if they do introduce ID Cards (and my vote will be determined by that issue) they should be in Welsh only. That will slow down the use of the data which will be stolen from the database or retrieved from the 'left-on-the-train' laptops. Thieves will have to employ Welsh Language translators so, a handy list of translations needs to be published. We could start with the Welsh for Jew, Homosexual, Gypsy, Jehovah's Witness and ... why not ... Englishman!

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Silver badge
Unhappy

It obviously isn't a UK ID card

Its an EU one, otherwise they wouldn't want it in frog-speak.

If you want to go abroad TAKE YOUR PASSPORT.

A bad concept destined for a rotten implementation.

Deu Et Mon Droit is about as much french as I want to see on it.

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Black Helicopters

Yes...Yes...But why French on an ID card

@ Neoc

Grand hisory lesson.....but not a word as to why French on a UK ID card.

French may well be the language of diplomats....but it is an UK ID card

French may well be included on a passport....but it is a UK ID card

French may well be an official EU language.....but it is a UK ID card

The UK ID card is not a passport.

The UK ID card is not an EU ID card.

It is a UK ID card, for UK citizens, for use in the UK........so why French?

<Tinfoil Hat on>

Unless of course that it is intended to be a EU ID card, and we will be forced to carry it whenever we travel through Europe. Why cannot we just use our passport as we do now? Well you don't need to use a passport when traveling within your own country do you........also known as the United Stated of Europe.

<Tinfoil Hat off>

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Black Helicopters

Squelsh

If we get every language (and comedy made-up language, like Welsh) spoken in the UK on there, then the card will be the bigger than most people.

No doubt Wacky Jacqui will rave that this is yet another advantage of these wonderful devices and that people are beating down her door with sticks to get them.

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ID QaplA

Overcoming the issue of space for Welsh, the Minister today announced the Government intends ID cards to carry text in only two languages. However, to assuage those who wish to see other languages than French and English, the latter will be replaced on random cards by other languages spoken in the United Kingdom, proportionally to the number of residents who speak those languages. "It is up to those examining an ID card to make sense of it," she said, "and if you don't fancy Welsh, or Urdu, or Arabic or Old Scots... you can jolly well sod off."

Klingon speakers are expected to petition for inclusion on the list.

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@ Neoc

Well gee, thanks for the learning; every day's a school day and all that, but I am not a diplomat, and a UK ID card is not a passport.

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French because ...

... it's been the UK's official second language since 1971, when we joined the EEC. Previous to that our official second language was Latin.

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sneeky....

the government get someone to moan about not having welsh on the ID card, then people start moaning about it missing their language too.

If the people want their language on the card they MUST want the card.

simple NuLogic.

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Silver badge
Joke

Don't forget Ulster Scots!

http://www.ulsterscotsagency.com/home.asp

Note: that site is not in the least bit funny, I post it merely for information. Oh yes.

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