Re: "Wales is no more a country that Yorkshire."
>True, everyone knows Yorkshire is a republic.
>
God's own republic I will have you know
MP wants Welsh text on ID cards
Llanelli MP Nia Griffiths has called for the national identity card to include Welsh text. New technologies provide many ways to make services bilingual, said the Labour MP on 3 February 2009, and using Welsh on identity cards would send a clear message that the language has equal validity with English. A supporter of …
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Wednesday 4th February 2009 19:46 GMT Ken Hagan
Re: Easy solution
An excellent idea, but I fear it is too elegant for the brainless drones in Wacky's hive. I expect they are hoping to include an inspiring national motto on the card, so there just *has* to be some text there, darling.
"Or, if you must have human readable text, name & relevant numbers / dates."
Those dates would be in ISO format, of course, and the name would be in whatever script was appropriate. (I'm sure there are thousands of people in the UK who resent having to butcher their name into Latin script.)
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Wednesday 4th February 2009 19:46 GMT RW
Ooooooooh, good idea!
How to defeat Wakki Jakki's stupider ideas: she and those around her seem to be keen on every cockamamie bit of PC nonsense they run across. From now on, whenever the Home Office announces some braindead initiative or plan (is there any other sort?), the assembled horde should start picking it apart because it doesn't support minority langues, isn't disabled-friendly ("My auntie has no fingers; ID cards need to have a string she can pull with her teeth. Whassa matter, you have something agin' the disabled, dear Jackie?"), isn't in Braille, is subtly homophobic (the mere accusation without specifics should be good for a Chinese firedrill or two at Whitehall), insults vegans, isn't safe for children, emits evil chemical fumes, has too large a carbon footprint, panders to pedos, and so on and so forth, ad infinitum nauseamque.
Smiley icon will have to substitute for "evil grin".
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Wednesday 4th February 2009 22:12 GMT Anonymous Coward
Official Languages
Actually does anyone know what the OFFICIAL languages of the UK are?
Well... in Scotland, its English and Gaelic
in Wales, its Welsh and English
in England, well, actually its not set in law...
I'm all for regional ID cards, especially as those for about 50,000,000 of the population will be blank...or has Fuhrer Jaqui not realised this...given that she's not realised many things....?
Maybe the ID cards in English could be printed in Normal French and Danish?
And for all those moaning about Welsh and Gaelic etc...the French are bloody good at protecting their own culture and language, SO WHY DON'T WE??!!! Oh year, forgot, culture in the UK is binge drinking, Al Qaeda paedophiles and believing the Daily Mail... :)
Paris...well I'm sure she'd like a cunning linguist...sorry, that was too easy!
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Wednesday 4th February 2009 22:13 GMT ArfinGreebly
American English?
Ah, yes. The purity of English.
A concept with which I'm well acquainted.
"The problem with defending the purity of the English Language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." -- James D. Nicoll
We could always adopt Strine, though I'm sure there are those who would prefer all official business to be conducted in Fraffly.
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Wednesday 4th February 2009 22:13 GMT Nigel Callaghan
Rhyddid i Gymru
Ar ôl darllen y holl rwtsh gan ein ffrindiau dros Clawdd Offa yma, yr unig peth rydw i am ddweud yw - RHYDDID I GYMRU - a chyn gynted ag sy'n bosib! Wedyn wrth gwrs, mae'r holl cwestiwn o ba iaith i roi ar gardiau hunaniaeth Cymreig yn gwbl academaidd oherwydd ni fydd cardiau hunaniaeth yng Nghymru Rhydd beth bynnag!
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Wednesday 4th February 2009 22:13 GMT Anonymous Coward
No need for any text
There's no need for any text on the ID card - it just needs a set of coloured shapes.
In fact the last attempt to unify europe even created a nice table of them.
Unfortunately green triangle is already used (habitual criminal) - so we need a new one for 'person who put their recycling out on the wrong day'
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Thursday 5th February 2009 01:12 GMT Jamie McCallion
Dim Disco Heno
Everyone has the right to be governed in the language they speak- I think that's been a tenet of English law for about 600 years now...
Saying that a language is dead over and over again doesn't make it so- Welsh is still a living language and for a lot of people it's their first or preferred language. It's growing its spoken base now, after years of forced decline at the hands of the English authorities (cf "Welsh Knot"). Children speak it in school and at home, and you can hear it being openly used by people across the country. 38% of under 15s in Wales can speak and understand Welsh, while at least 20% of the population as a whole can (2001 census results published in 2003).
Being a principality doesn't stop somewhere being a country or a nation- it just means it isn't a kingdom or a republic or some other political designation.
I'm looking forward to my children learning Welsh, English, and hopefully more languages- it should serve to make them better adapted to European life.
And those pound notes and coins? Manufactured within Wales (on crown land, apparently) and then exported to England... But you knew that.
Now, ID Cards- they stink, and I told my MP why they stink, and he said that he had to vote for them anyway. Thanks a lot for that Kim- good to know you still have the backbone that you showed during the miners' strike...
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Thursday 5th February 2009 01:12 GMT James
She's got a point...
To all those putting the boot in, Welsh is an official (minority) language of the UK. Along with Scots Gaelic, Cornish etc. This should mean that it gets treated in the same way as English in those areas where it's spoken. Accordingly, I think she's got a point...
Personally, I think the best thing to put on an ID card is a couple of sticks of dynamite...
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Thursday 5th February 2009 04:36 GMT Neoc
Re: Why French?
@Sweep 16:10 GMT "Why are they planning on having French on a UK card? and not, for instance, Spanish, German or American English."
<sigh> and all it would take is a little bit of learning....
I will try to be brief: until recently (historically speaking), the language of Diplomacy was French. The Lingua Franca (lit. French language... but in Italian, go figure) adopted across the world for Diplomats to understand each other regardless of where they were from. From such Halcyon days come words like Passport, Parole, etc... With the advent of WWII (and to a lesser degree WWI), the influence of the USofA rose and English became the language you wanted to speak if you wanted to deal Internationally (which is why Air Traffic communications are always in English, for example).
HOWEVER... Since Passports (a derivative of the French Passeport, lit. an item that allowed you to go through ports) existed well before WWII, they were generally written in French. And this idiosyncrasy has stayed with us - regardless of which country you are from, your Passport will very likely include all headings in both your local language and in French (unless you're from a Francophone country). And this is not limited to passports - just for fun I went and got an International Driver's Licence and it, too, contains French headings.
Frankly, I find this touch of a bygone era to be a nostalgic reminder of nicer days... from before you were required to drop trousers and bend over every time you want to board a plane.
So the inclusion of French on your paperwork has nothing to do with the EU, and everything to do with World History. Which, from the comments on this board, quite a few people should make themselves more familiar with.
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Thursday 5th February 2009 05:55 GMT Magani
@Nigel Callaghan - Rhyddid i Gymru
As the only Welsh I've come across is 'Araf' (and why do they insist on writing it all over the roads like it's the Tour de France?) I foolishly tried an on-line translationat InterTran. The result was:-
Signs ôl read the all rubbish with our friends over Hedge Offa here , he drives only thing I am being I about say is FREEDOM I she persuading I go chyn soon with who ' is heartburn possible! Afterwards of course , he ' is being group all question he ba language I give signs cards identity Welsh wholly academic because we he will be cards identity in would forbear He Gives thing -ever!
I was no wiser than when I read the original. It comes out as the illigitimate love child after the union of aManfromMars and the Rant of the Week.
The only thing that comes to mind after that is that you'd better find a small Welsh child to stick their finger in Offa's Dyke. It's obviously leaking.
Mine's the une avec le Frenglish dictionaire sur la pochet.
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Thursday 5th February 2009 05:55 GMT Dave
ID Card Trial?
Perhaps the Welsh just got volunteered to be the trial area for the roll-out of ID cards? That way they can have them printed only in Welsh. Then once the general uselessness has been demonstrated because no one else can understand what the cards are for, we'll all be better off. As the Welsh population is smaller than the Scottish, it would be cheaper than using HMG's usual proving ground for crap ideas.
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Thursday 5th February 2009 10:27 GMT Anonymous Coward
@Magani
Nigel, like many nationalists, seems to think that by using a language the majority of people on this board won't understand, he's outsmarting the English. Oh yeah, he stuck it to them *gooood*....
@ian :
>"The French are always just desperate to persuade someone to speak it."
>Yes- so they can sneer at your pronunciation.
Indeed. Just like the Welsh, in my experience.
@ ArfinGreebly :
Nice cut'n'paste job there. But what were you actually trying to say? Flaming the Welsh or non-Welsh? Inquiring minds - well, don't care, really. Try just using Llanfair P.G. in future; you'll impress people with your local knowledge.
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Thursday 5th February 2009 10:27 GMT Allan Dyer
Title?
"Wales is no more a country that Yorkshire." - Isn't Yorkshire getting a seat on the UN Security Council soon?
@Nigel Callaghan
A good point, well-made, I'm sure, but Babelfish doesn't have a Welsh->English option. Personally, I like Wales, because it's the only country that's passed a law that my name must be displayed in places of entertainment and certain road signs.
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Thursday 5th February 2009 10:27 GMT Ascylto
@ No need for any text (AC)
No need for any text - excellent post. In case anyone wonders what's being talked about ... it's the Concentration Camp and other use of symbols. 'Asocial' is a good catch-all!
I think that if they do introduce ID Cards (and my vote will be determined by that issue) they should be in Welsh only. That will slow down the use of the data which will be stolen from the database or retrieved from the 'left-on-the-train' laptops. Thieves will have to employ Welsh Language translators so, a handy list of translations needs to be published. We could start with the Welsh for Jew, Homosexual, Gypsy, Jehovah's Witness and ... why not ... Englishman!
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Thursday 5th February 2009 10:41 GMT peter
Yes...Yes...But why French on an ID card
@ Neoc
Grand hisory lesson.....but not a word as to why French on a UK ID card.
French may well be the language of diplomats....but it is an UK ID card
French may well be included on a passport....but it is a UK ID card
French may well be an official EU language.....but it is a UK ID card
The UK ID card is not a passport.
The UK ID card is not an EU ID card.
It is a UK ID card, for UK citizens, for use in the UK........so why French?
<Tinfoil Hat on>
Unless of course that it is intended to be a EU ID card, and we will be forced to carry it whenever we travel through Europe. Why cannot we just use our passport as we do now? Well you don't need to use a passport when traveling within your own country do you........also known as the United Stated of Europe.
<Tinfoil Hat off>
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Thursday 5th February 2009 11:42 GMT Stef
Squelsh
If we get every language (and comedy made-up language, like Welsh) spoken in the UK on there, then the card will be the bigger than most people.
No doubt Wacky Jacqui will rave that this is yet another advantage of these wonderful devices and that people are beating down her door with sticks to get them.
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Thursday 5th February 2009 12:11 GMT Cortland Richmond
ID QaplA
Overcoming the issue of space for Welsh, the Minister today announced the Government intends ID cards to carry text in only two languages. However, to assuage those who wish to see other languages than French and English, the latter will be replaced on random cards by other languages spoken in the United Kingdom, proportionally to the number of residents who speak those languages. "It is up to those examining an ID card to make sense of it," she said, "and if you don't fancy Welsh, or Urdu, or Arabic or Old Scots... you can jolly well sod off."
Klingon speakers are expected to petition for inclusion on the list.
This topic is closed for new posts.
Biting the hand that feeds IT
