back to article Fedora 9 - an OS that even the Linux challenged can love

Fedora 9, the latest release from the Fedora Project, goes up for download on Tuesday. The ninth release of Fedora ushers in a number of changes aimed at making the venerable distribution a more newbie-friendly desktop, but longtime users needn't fear a great dumbing down; version 9 packs plenty of power user punch as well. …


This topic is closed for new posts.


Thumb Up

I'll be sure to give this a go

Have always found the installer a PITA on RH/FC If for what ever reason a package can't be found or doesn't install during the installation no matter how trivial it is the whole thing quits and you have to start from scratch, no skip option. I have always found it very feature-light as a desktop OS so improvements are welcome there. IMO openSUSE is a lot more intuitive. KDE4 is still very much a beta so despite looking nice I'd be selecting Gnome. Have always liked it on the server though, very logical and reliable and my default choice.








Dead Vulture

Too much elitism.

I'd like to get back into linux, even if just for the experience with using something I'm not too familiar with. Trouble with any time I install linux (ubuntu, really) is if I'm ever having any problem with it the 'community' support seems to consist of my asking "I'm trying to do XYZ" followed with "you're trying to do XYX? Did you RTFM first? Jeez" regardless of my actual problem or how many manuals I've read.

Still, better than trying to do something different in OSX: any time you say "I want to do XYZ" they just say "XYZ? Why would you ever want to do that?"...


WRT cat

Well, 'cat foo >> bar' is just a lot easier to remember.

I admit that I am only a user of UNIX or Linux since about 1992. So I have some bad habits of the younger set. I know it is possible to do nearly everything with just bash, excude me, sh, I just don't know how.

Some of your elder secrets are still safe ;-)

Silver badge

Wireless and Linux

I can get hermes, orinoco, prism, atheros and centrino (ipw220) chipsets working out of the box with any Linux that supports the Gnome Network manager (which I have installed on Ubuntu 6.06 - it's in the repository). I can get the ralink and derrived chipsets working for WEP without too much trouble, but it takes some effort to get WPA working, which most people will not be able to sort out themselves.

Where there is a weakness is in the WPA supplicant support. Atheros and Centrino chipsets with Gnome Network manager will do it, and in a reasonably friendly way.

I am using a fairly backward Ubuntu release, so I suspect that it will be a little easier in later releases. I know that the normal network system admin tool in the menu does not work with WPA at all in Ubuntu 6.06.

Where the problem lies is that with a card intended for Windows, the user gets the nice little install CD, which takes away from them all the hassle of deciding which chipset is being used.

Modern Linux distributions probably have the abillity to drive almost all of the chipsets used out-of-the-box, and also have the NDIS wrappers as a fallback, but you need to be able to decide which chipset is in use to make useful decisions.

If manufacturers provided the details of the internal workings of the card (basically the chipset details), or even gave the same degree of care to installing their products on different Linux distros, as they do on different Windows releases, then I'm sure that there would be less discontent amongst non-hardcore Linux users.

I know that this is hampered by the plethora of different distributions out there (see my earlier comments), but it should not be rocket science.

An additional complication is that if you go into your local PC World (assuming it is still open after Thursday) and ask for a Wireless PC-Card using the Atheros chipset, you will get a blank look from the assistants, as they will understand "Wireless" and may understand "PC-Card" (but you might have to call it a PCMCIA card), but Atheros might as well be a word in Greek (actually, it probably is).

And it complicated by manufacturers who have multiple different products, with the same product ID, using completly different chipsets (if you are lucky, on the card itself, you may get a v2 or v3 added to the product ID, but not normally on the outside of the box).

If you definitly want to get wireless working, I suggest that you pick up one of the Linux magazines (-Format or -User) and look for adverts from suppliers who will guarantee to supply a card that will work with Linux, or keep to the Intel Centrino wireless chipset that fortunatly is in most laptops with Pentium processors.

If your laptop uses mini-PCI cards (under a cover normally on the bottom of the laptop) for wireless expansion, then there are many people selling Intel wireless cards on eBay for IBM Thinkpads (2915ABG) that will probably work. Thats what I am using, and it works very nicely indeed.


Best Distro !


If impossible was possible - it would have been!

There is no thing as best distro, what I have is what I like.

Only thing I wish to do is to remain open for change,

may we get strength or wisdom or whatever to decide -

what "will be good tomorrow", that's where I am going.

We will 'only' have better and better distros but I wish we never have "the best" coz then there will be nothing better to look for!

And if we are open to this thought, it will be a funny feeling to cross our processes that M$ walks (somewhere in future) on golden pavement, all alone!

Come on friends, lets live for Linux ... ... that's for all of us.


Linux Wireless

Proper wireless support in Linux is not down to the kernel developers, but the hardware manufacturers who are sitting on the information required to write a driver as though it were an important trade secret, rather than part of the instructions necessary for making full use of one's own property. (I have old printer manuals which include not only the control codes to enable graphics mode, double-width printing &c., but interface timing charts -- STROBE must be asserted within so many µs. after D7-D0 are latched and for so many µs. to guarantee that the character is received, kind of thing -- and suggested schematics for interfacing to then-popular processors!)

We need to write to our elected representatives and demand a change in the law, which would make manufacturers provide this information or ban their products from sale.

Legislation is required because otherwise, manufacturers will just mumble something unconvincing about competitors stealing their secrets (as though they aren't all *already* reverse-engineering one another's cards); if they were all forced to do it at the same time, none of them could gain any unfair advantage.

Yes, publishing this information could enable people to misuse wireless networking cards and create interference elsewhere in the spectrum -- but there are already laws in place against that.


One missing?

Where's the KDE live CD 32bit?

I was going to try it on a legacy P4 with an intel board I've got here.


Guess this could be handy for crossing the US border

Yep, why take a laptop to get it searched...

better still buy a stick when you enter the country and download the contents of your host environment from t'net.

and for all those "I wouldn't let anyone put their data on my machine" naysayers... get your own stick! Leave the machine as it was when you bought it and use it as host. That's the way it's supposed to be and it can't happen soon enough as far as I'm concerned.

Anonymous Coward

@@@@ Linux Wireless

I notice quite a lot of complaints regarding wireless not working and then defenses that it is the fault of the hardware manufacturer or whatever.

Isn't the important point that wireless does not generally work with linux?

I have tried a number of linux distributions including SuSe and Ubuntu and I have not got any of them to work satisfactorily.

Now, I know that it may be my fault, and I know that I may have unreasonable satisfaction requirements but all I want it to do is:

-Wired and wireless networking

-Internet access

-Document management (word processor, spreadsheet, picture view/edit, video playback)

After about half a day if it is not working I format and move on to another distribution. I have not yet found a distribution that has worked satisfactorily.

Personally I dislike Microsoft as a company, and I am well aware of the major shortcomings of XP and Vista however when it comes down to it the amount of effort I need to put in to get my XP and Vista computers to do what I want and continue doing what I want is minimal.


@Peter Gathercole

Ah mate, you couldn't write my feelings about that any better !

Been sick of FC for years, no way to update a single pkg without triggering tons of pointless updates. I mean, supposing the updater wouldn't stall. Also, you couldn't (back with FC7) install with a single CD, thus not practical on medium networks of old PCs, even internet connected ... The worst was in fact the pkg system and categorisation of installed components. Has probably not evolved since RH 5 or 6, with still the only PDF reader unticked by default. Who would use a PC with no pdf reader ?

When is it gonna reach the level where SUN/HP/IBM were, 10 years ago in terms of pkg maturity ?

And how would you install your Nvidia driver on FC eh ? Even myself, I've become tired of recompiling the kernel (because the default one was compiled with a different version of gcc, from the one installed, which would sanely prevent the NV driver from compiling) just to get some openGL working.

Geez, we're back to Linux kernel 1.2.X with X an optional pkg to be compiled ! Was in 1994, if I recall.

Since the SW is exactly the same on all distros, I hope one day, they all agree on a common set of pkgs (and format !). Then, they could just put in their fav method of installing the common pkgs.

Would save shitloads of storage on internet FTP servers and a lot of CPU power to recompile the same sources into the same execs, to make different pkgs ! Make it green, unify the Linux pkgs !


This post has been deleted by its author


Ah well

Lots of people must have 32 bit stuff lying around that they could have tried this on if there was a live cd for i386, but so be it.

I think they've missed a trick.

Xp with sp2 now on the P4.....(temp PC while I upgrade her ladyship's notebook, to avoid death.)

Thumb Down

I'll stick with Debian, thanks

Every few releases of Fedora Core I will try it in the vain hope that they've actually made it usable...

After reading this glowing praise of Fedorka 9, I downloaded it and tried it and I can summarize my experience with it on a mainboard that has been in production from Biostar (K8M800) for around 2 years...


You'd think the people at Red Hat would figure out how to support an integrated video adapter (Via K8M800) that has been out for years! It seems you have to have either an Nvidia, or ATI add-in video if you want anything more than 640x480.

Now this new KDE looks like a knock off of the Vista desktop, and it sucks, even more at 640x480 .. hell, Debian will at least let me use 800x600 with a generic VESA driver on unrecognized video hardware!! That's not to say that Fedorka Core 9 didn't FIND the video adapter, it just would not use any resolution higher than 640 by 480.

I gave it a good go, the 'GUI tools' are almost NON-existent, this turd has the chrome plating flaking off.

As an aside Red Hat does not include any high end driver binaries, as a matter of fact any hardware that remotely looks like it may go into a server has the binary drivers removed from Fedorka ... this seems like a shallow effort to force one to go buy RHEL.

I restored Debian Etch 4.0r3, which gave me 1024x768 out of the box. It defaults to Gnome, but its easy to install KDE + KDM, no dependency hell at all. Apt-get, or the GUI program Synaptic just does it all, with a one time ask if you want all the dependency packages.

Even PCLinuxOS with a tiny dev team in comparison to Red Hat and their billion$ does a far better job! PCLOS is one of my favorites, but lacking the huge software repository and 64bit support I went with Debian for my home server.

If you must go with Linux from a big commercial vendor I'd say use SUSE or Ubuntu.

Anonymous Coward

Try doing a "cat *.log > logfiles.summary" using your ksh one-liner.

for f in "*.log"; do echo "$(<${k})" >> logs; done

There you go.

Which also has the advantage of injecting other elements easily into the process.

I was just having some fun, cat is just being misused, but it has been misused for so long, even I went cat logs to check it had worked :).

It pops up more though on system initialization.

It is nice to keep the programs you need to initialize a system to a minimum, cat and its 26K on a GNU system, takes up space and slows the boot time.

Sorry, old timer we are all building our own systems from the ether nowadays. You go back to tinkering with your model T Ford, Grandad! Our custom kit, souped-up, Morganesque, Dalorian Hybrids, are already off the forecourt, and thundering down the cyber highways of new hope and experience :)

We eat unix command line power users for breakfast, and still have room for one or two moaning Fluid Dynamics cluster system owners :)

And cat is not really a command; it is a program. Shell builtins are faster, those are the real commands, the commands real modern men use, not the commands of the crusty curmudgeon brigade :)

Well if you are going to ignore my 'I just having a bit of fun' comment, I may as well go the full hog.


Ah the wifi point. The UK tends to mainly have RALink chipsets for the Wifi, those are now in the Linux Kernel and appear to be fairly solid.


Just a reminder

No offence to every bore that fancies their "distro" and just hates others. You noobs bring your stupid "love/hates" online and this behaviour is not healthy for the OPEN SOURCE COMMUNITY as a whole. If you dont like Fedora/Suse/Debian/Ubuntu/ *nix distro...shove it.

We should be grateful that we've got this much choice.(not forgeting our secure *BSDs)


In a nutshell...

Stop hatin

Start participatin.


If u find a bug, report it to bugtraq... or whatever yo distro uses... if u can write a simple if statement, read the damn code. ITS FREE FFS.


As for those that do not know why this article is so great, why not take a spin of F9 or any other NIX distro. Maybe then you wont be so whimsical about USB installs. Just maybe.

Nix rules




Why not

...use Slackware? It's simpler!

Silver badge

@AC about cat - if you are still reading

This is UNIX we are talking about, almost all things are possible, although I suspect that your ksh loop may well run slower than cat.

I take your point about 'command' and 'program', sloppy thinking on my part. But that sloppy thinking runs through the entire UNIX history. Check your Version 7, System V or BSD or AIX or any other documentation, and you will see that 'cat' appears in the "Commands" section of the manual (run "info cat" on a GNU Linux system, and see the heading. Section 1 "User Commands")

Interestingly, your one-liner does not to work exactly as written on AIX (a genetic UNIX), as echo does not have a -e flag. Still, you probably don't want that flag if you are trying to emulate cat. I have used echo like this in anger, when nothing but the shell was available (booting a RS/6000 off the three recovery floppy disks to fix a problem before CD-ROM drives were in every system).

I was not really ranting, I was trying to put a bit of perspective on the comments, from a historical point of view. I'll bet you would find a need to complain if cat was really not there on a distro.

Sorry, I did miss the lighthearted comment. Still, just a bit of fun between power users, eh!

Myself, I try to stick to a System V subset (vanilla, or what), mainly because it is likely to work on almost all UNIX from the last 20 years. When you have used as many flavours as I have, it's the only way.

Yes, I've been around and yes, I am still making a living out of UNIX and Linux, so don't feel I'm a complete dinosaur yet. And I am also open enough to use my name in comments (sorry, could not resist the dig).



I have to take back my "Looks Good" from above.

If you are like me and you want to use KDE and not Gnome, then F9 is a disaster. KDE4 in F9 is incomplete: most of the configuration options are gone. Some of the more irritating things:

- Can't turn off wallpapers. If I want a solid color background I have to remove the physical wallpaper files from /usr/share/wallpapers.

- Can't hide the panel, nor change its color. It is a shiny black panel, looks hideous and there is nothing you can do about it. People on the web are describing simply killing it off altogether and putting the UI elements on the desktop. Well and good, but IMNSHO the auto-hide panel is what KDE is all about. If I wanted control applets on my desktop hiding behind my windows where I can't get at them, then I'd be in love with a different window manager not KDE (3).

- Icons on the desktop have ahuge semi-transparent border around them, and the dimensions of the rectangle of the border is different for every icon. Looks cluttered and irregular. You can't make it go away.

- Some desktop widgets cannot be dragged to new locations. Example: the digital clock cannot be move from where you put it. To move it you have to delete the thing and re-place it.

- Some UI elements are slow. Also drop down lists don't stay dropped down if you release the mouse button.

I could go on.

The eye candy factor is enormous but no way to control it or turn it off.

Someone in the KDE or Fedora design team has a secret fancy for Vista or the latest Mac OS 10.

Yeah, a new full point release is going to bring some changes, but this release includes changing the basic way some important UI elements work. KDE 3 was very configurable, KDE 4 imposes the look and feel in quite a fascistic manner.

Stay away!

Gah, puke!


same old dumb prblem in all Linux - drivers

If you have a desktop, with built in duo display capable chipset, both of your widescreens will be show you a blue blank page or flicker dots screen, deoends on your chipset: Intel, nVidia, or ATI. Other than that, device such as mp3, mp4, mobile phones, or digital camera or camcorder..still an issue.

Bear in mind, not everyone use Linux is techie nor has the patience to waste. Most people just want focus on productivity conveniences.

Anonymous Coward

To Mr Gathercole

I will tone down the response as you have noticed my just having a bit of fun comment :)

But, you are rushing into the UNIX line of defense now. Linux is not UNIX (that would be trademark infringement), but it is unix.

I would be happy if cat was not in a standard distro, it would mean the init system did not require it.

And yes most do describe cat as a command, but that I suppose is the real point, there are lots of features (the builtins) in bash say that replace the basic tools (cat, sed and awk), so whilst Perl chipped at the front, bash and other shells chipped away at the rear. Personally I use zsh on the command line most of the time.

I would like to see a good working ash (or dash) init system for really fast boot times, possibly C core to it.

But yeah overall your points are valid, sure the command line is a lot faster than GUIs. Though there are lots of new tricks to add to old ones.

e.g. to get even more control over file reading.

while read line; do echo ${line}; done < a_file

and even more fun can be had with zsh which allows for multiple input redirection.

while read line; do echo "LogCombi :" ${line} >> logs; done < "$(for k in *.log; do <'${k}'; done)"


Broadcom comments

Both Guy and Anonymous Coward have accurately pointed out the pain of Broadcom - but maybe it's not as simple as boycotting their hardware.

Fact is it's going to be harder to find competition - especially now that they just won a Court case over Qualcomm because the latter couldn't prove patent infringement.

Well, it's hard to make a better case for having weird driver code and some extra diodes on the card ! If it's not made available in open source and you can't read it because it's so full of obfuscators - no one will ever be able to challenge your design or drivers but you, in turn, can always challenge theirs.

Quite a business plan, if that is what's going on.



This topic is closed for new posts.


Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2018