back to article EU tells UK: Cut the BS, sign here, and you can have access to Galileo sat's secure service

Hidden away in the document laying out the starting position for EU and UK negotiations lies an interesting nugget for those following the tortured tales of the European satellite navigation system, Galileo. With Brexit "done" (we have a tea towel on order saying it so it must be true), the starting position for the future …

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  1. adam 40 Bronze badge
    Mushroom

    WW III

    Now we are out of the EU the next logical step (according to many - not me) is another war in Europe.

    If we are at war with Europe our security keys to the Galileo PRS will be revoked immediately.

    So - what's the use of having it?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: WW III

      I guess the thinking is that we would be unlikely to be denied both Galileo and GPS services simultaneously. If we were, GNSS access might not be our biggest concern.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      If Trump puts US troops in Russian hands...

      You clearly joke, but a more realistic scenario is:

      1) UK shares info with US on the current keys for Galileo. 5 Eyes beats EU-UK relations.

      2) Trump puts US troops under Russian command. Remember Helsinki? When Trump agreed to joint US-Russian operations in Syria? Joint operations have rotating leadership, that would put US troops under Russian command. Not exactly a good thing when Russia is bombing US allies and US bases in Syria!

      3) Galileo is compromised. EU pulls the security keys, no war, just Putin laughing his c**k off at how easy it was to beat America.

      So of course they want to keep control of the keys.

      IMHO, They'd be better off tackling that Putin Oligarch in Vienna that the Republicans keep visiting. Because that money flow is what's corrupting the GOP and compromising the security of the west. They're not really putting party above country, they're putting self interest, especially $$$ self interest above country.

      And Ukraine? They should restart that investigation into the Manasfort money flow. The one they stopped when Trump threatened to block Rapier missile shipments unless they killed the Manasfort Russian money investigation.

      Expose the flow of Russian money into GOP pockets and you break the control.

      1. phuzz Silver badge

        Re: If Trump puts US troops in Russian hands...

        "1) UK shares info with US on the current keys for Galileo.

        [...]

        3) Galileo is compromised. EU pulls the security keys"

        Erm, I'm not sure you understand how cryptographic keys work.

        If the ESA revoked the UK's keys, then all that would happen would be that the UK could not use the precise PRS part of the Galileo system. All the other EU countries will have their own indevidual keys, so they'll be fine, and the public Galileo signals will still work (which when combined with the public GPS and GLONASS signals will still be plenty precise).

        1. MatthewSt

          Re: If Trump puts US troops in Russian hands...

          Ah, but now we hold all the cards then surely we can make them build a back door into it, as encryption is only used by terrorists isn't it? Am I doing this government thing right?

    3. NoneSuch Silver badge

      The Up Side

      With the magnificent way BREXIT is being managed, you can rest assured that the GPS issues will be sorted by the government. Then you'll know exactly where you are, while waiting on the next delayed food shipment to arrive.

      1. Anonymous Custard Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: The Up Side

        Yup, you will know exactly where you are ("Here").

        Of course knowing where here is in relation to anywhere else is an entirely different question...

        Still at least the Brexit Satellite should also have nice clean telephones, if the prescience of Mr Adams can be relied upon (and it's so far more reliable than much else in this matter).

        1. Glen 1 Silver badge

          Re: The Up Side

          Given current events, telephone sanitisers could well be of more immediate use than another GPS system.

    4. razorfishsl

      Re: WW III

      The British developed the crypto for the thing.....

      1. Ben Tasker Silver badge

        Re: WW III

        If I remember correctly we also developed the rule that said that non-Member states can't have access to the secure parts - and then insisted on it.

      2. Len

        Re: WW III

        True, although it doesn’t really matter who built it. Unless you know the key that is used for the encryption, having built it doesn’t add anything.

        Some of the best crypto libraries are Open Source but without the right key that I use for encrypted comms even the people who built it can’t make sense of what I send over the line.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: WW III

      Sextants and Harrison clocks at the ready.

    6. WillCunningham

      Re: WW III

      I don't recall any news about a European nation pulling itself out of the Central Banking system...

      So I wouldn't worry about a war.

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: WW III

      Galileo is somewhat rubbish anyway. The people running it have so far demonstrated a miserable level of system governance, having a week long whoopsie due to probable incompetence followed more recently by utterly useless reports into the incident and recommendations so vague as to be as applicable to my long dead grandmother as they are to an organisation running a multi-billion sat nav system. Until they cut the BS in how Galileo is run as a governed system, there’s practically no point involving it in anything that’s “mission critical”.

    8. Venerable and Fragrant Wind of Change

      Re: WW III

      So - what's the use of having it?

      It's a charade.

      Now that we've agreed to strip out Huawei, at considerable expense to BT and Vodafone and much more to our own economy, the NSA will allow us access to their purloined keys. What do you think Menwith Hill is for?

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Were we not told...

    That the EU needed us more than the other way round?

    It don't look like that is anywhere remotely close to the truth.

    The noises coming from our clearly right-wing Gubbermint is 'On yer bike' (As long as it is a Boris Bike naturally)

    1. IsJustabloke

      Re: Were we not told...

      Whether you like it or not from a military POV they do.

      1. LegalAlien

        Re: Were we not told...

        ... and NATO is still in place

    2. Len
      Thumb Up

      Re: Were we not told...

      Don't worry, the Galileo scenario is already prepared using the tried and tested Brexit formula of signing up to whatever the EU27 want us to sign up to and then present it as a victory back home.

    3. macjules Silver badge
      Meh

      Re: Were we not told...

      And the Boris Bikes were sold to a Spanish bank .. odd that.

      1. Admiral Grace Hopper

        Re: Were we not told...

        And the "Boris" bikes scheme was planned and partly implemented by Livingstone's city hall before "Boris" took over - he just took the credit. Yer man Johnson gave us the Emirates cable car and an un-built bridge.

        1. Len
          Happy

          Re: Were we not told...

          True, I remember when Lingstone visited the 'Velib' system in Paris and announced he would bring a similar scheme to London.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Were we not told...

            Fortunately we got a working system, instead.

        2. Fred Dibnah Silver badge

          Re: Were we not told...

          Not just an unbuilt bridge, an unbuilt bridge on which millions of pounds disappeared into his friends' pockets.

          1. Fred Dibnah Silver badge

            Re: Were we not told...

            I don't normally do this, but I'm genuinely curious why I've been downvoted. Anyone?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Were we not told...

              Because you upset some Tory readers of El Reg. The type who moan about immigrants paying no tax while spending hours looking for ways to pay less tax themselves.

              1. Fred Dibnah Silver badge

                Re: Were we not told...

                Indeed. And now my post asking why I've been downvoted has itself been downvoted. I won't ask why, otherwise this will never stop :-)

                1. adam 40 Bronze badge

                  Re: Were we not told...

                  I wasn't going to downvote you until you started whinging about it.

                  Hell, my WW III joke has been downvoted 45 times (and counting) you don't see me throwing my toys out of the pram!!!

    4. H in The Hague Silver badge

      Re: Were we not told...

      "The noises coming from our clearly right-wing Gubbermint ..."

      Well, Mr Johnson has also complained that the EU stops him giving financial support to ailing industries - in my view that is clearly stolen from the Labour manifesto (Mr Corbyn has uttered similar mutterings). And, speaking as a moderate free marketeer, not something I'm impressed by.

      1. Stork Silver badge

        Re: Were we not told...

        I think (as in I have a recollection but am not sure) that pre-Thatcher Tory governments supported ailing industries; reading the stories in DK newspapers in the 80es the UK did not seem to have many that were not ailing. In fact the subsidies continued; much of the unrest was due to the reduction of support, wasn't it?

        Of course some will claim that pre-Thatcher tories were not right wing.

        1. MJI Silver badge

          Re: Were we not told...

          I think (as in I have a recollection but am not sure) that pre-Thatcher Tory governments supported ailing industries

          Rolls Royce during RB211 development

    5. Warm Braw Silver badge

      Re: Were we not told...

      One of the places I might have ended up spending Brexit was Toulouse. One of the things I contemplated doing there was going on a tour of the Airbus factory. If you're not an EU citizen you need to give a few days notice of your planned visit: I don't know if they actually vet you, or it's just a bit of Gallic hauteur. I wouldn't technically have been an EU citizen on the days there were places available but, as I decided on Venice in the end, I didn't find out whether I'd be cut any slack during the transition period.

      Still, it will be an interesting position for a company - which claims to be Britain’s largest space company, a world-leader in cyber security, and the biggest supplier of large aircraft to the RAF - to take with UK citizens. Not that we'll be UK citizens for that much longer, of course.

      1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

        Why you are not told is always a Safely Secured State Secret in Proprietary Intellectual Property

        a company - which claims to be Britain’s largest space company, a world-leader in cyber security, and the biggest supplier of large aircraft to the RAF .... Warm Braw

        Being right in two out of three aint bad, Warm Braw, for one of those claims is fabulously outrageous, and extremely easily realised as demonstrably so.

      2. Wellyboot Silver badge

        Re: Were we not told...

        >>>just a bit of Gallic hauteur<<< unlikely.

        I visited a Nortel (long gone) site in France a dozen years ago and the receptionist was a bit surprised that The UK & US peeps in the group didn't have national ID cards.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Were we not told...

      the only thing that the EU might want from the UK post-brexit, is fishing rights. Given that the UK, post-brexit, wants EVERYTHING, and has nothing but those fishing rights to trade, something tells me...

      actually, even though I'm on the same UK boat, I would not mind a no-deal crashout, though something tells me people never learn from their mistakes, we'll just blame the UE, what else? :)

      1. Jon 37

        Re: Were we not told...

        I suspect the EU would also like a free trade deal, so it can continue selling to us. But only if that deal includes the UK continuing with EU standards on everything, and the UK has ruled that out.

        The EU is not going to allow us tariff-free access if we're going to trash worker or environmental protection to make our products cheaper, or if we're going to provide state aid to certain companies so they can undercut the EU market prices. They (quite reasonably) want to have tariffs that at least compensate for those factors.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I suspect the EU would also like a free trade deal

          well, yeah, but no but... yes, they kind of "would like" to have a free trade deal with the UK, but then do they REALLY, BADLY want, and more importantly NEED such a deal? Sure, it'd help to deal with your close (well, geographically) neighbour, but if the UK were to throw a tantrum again to show them who's boss, well, the EU won't despair and suffer badly, they'll just let us rot in peace.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Were we not told...

          "...if we're going to trash worker or environmental protection to make our products cheaper, or if we're going to provide state aid to certain companies..."

          EU better not buy anything from China then, even without an EU free trade deal they seem to be quite competitive.

  3. steelpillow Silver badge
    Joke

    Musky BS

    We should contract SpaceX to throw up vast amounts of small-BS which will interfere with Galileo via digital broadcasts of "Land of Hope and Glory." Maybe offer His Muskiness honorary citizenship and a well-paid job as adviser to Boris on press relations. If we are going to Trump (sic) the EU, we should do the job properly.

    1. Alister Silver badge

      Re: Musky BS

      Maybe offer His Muskiness honorary citizenship

      As a South African, he would have been a Commonwealth citizen if he'd been born a few years earlier...

      Ask the Windrush folk how well that went...

      1. Fred Dibnah Silver badge

        Re: Musky BS

        He'd be OK, he's the correct shade of South African.

    2. FrogsAndChips Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Musky BS

      adviser to Boris on press relations

      Does that involve pole dancing?

      1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: Boris on press relations

        Is Boris going to bring back the 'Press Gang"?

    3. codejunky Silver badge

      Re: Musky BS

      @steelpillow

      "We should contract SpaceX to throw up vast amounts of small-BS which will interfere with Galileo"

      Why? The uptime threshold is so low they can lose a week and everything looks good in the reports. And we are screwed if we wait for German planes and Pilots to help fight a war. The only one to arrive will be the war minister (now EU president).

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sounds like an excellent plot line for a new series of Hyperdrive.

    I miss that series. Exactly as I imagine UK efforts in space!

    1. TRT Silver badge

      Avenue 5 is pretty close to it, TBH.

  5. AIBailey Silver badge
    Joke

    Behold, the Brexit Satellite

    Those egg-carton solar panels, Mr Kipling foil tray antennas and yoghurt pot thrusters look just like the real thing.

    Blue Peter will be proud.

    1. John H Woods Silver badge

      Re: Behold, the Brexit Satellite

      surely you cannot have forgotten 'sticky backed plastic'

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Behold, the Brexit Satellite

      Are you aware that British companies built the Galileo IOV satellites and significant chunks of those that have come since?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Behold, the Brexit Satellite

        Are you aware that the joke icon means you shouldn't take comments too seriously?

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