back to article Ooo shiny! First Visual Studio 2019 sneak peek here in time for Chrimbo

The first public preview of Visual Studio 2019 was tossed to developers on Tuesday at Microsoft's Connect(); 2018 event. The Register took it for a spin to see what was up. The law of diminishing returns means... not much. Visual Studio has, after all, been evolving for the best part of 21 years. However, that has not stopped …

lansalot

wot?

Still no Powershell GUI dev?

Malcolm 1

Re: wot?

VS Code has good powershell support.

This post has been deleted by its author

Charles Calthrop

all seem like good changes. Now lets see how the never bitter el reg commentards react.

Nick Gisburne

Age before beauty

I always prefer to use the previous version, at least until the next one is released. That way every tool and gadget I like to add will have no compatibility issues. Using VS 2015 now. Will probably shift to VS 2017 when this new one comes out, although even then only if there's a compelling reason to do so.

Colin 29

Why do MS devs insist on filling the titlebar with other junk? It's a titlebar that now doesn't even display the title! How am I supposed to drag the flipping window around?

Draw whatever you want in the client area, leave the titlebar alone

DJV
Silver badge

Agreed!

And where the hell have the corner icons gone? Windows Explorer, Chrome and Thunderbird - I'm looking at you! As a web developer I sometimes have tons of windows open across my dual monitors with many half hidden behind other windows. Sometimes have to stare at something for a while before I'm 100% certain it is what I think it is!

Malcolm 1

My eyes!

Some nice improvements here but the new default "blue" theme is a fairly grim purplish colour that mostly reminds me of the C64 basic prompt.

Zippy´s Sausage Factory

Re: My eyes!

There is a "theme editor" plugin, but it's rock hard to use. I basically go for the light theme and then hunt down offensive colours, myself.

Mr Benny

It always makes me smile...

... how VS and similar IDEs are supposed to make life simpler but end up making a complete dogs dinner of the development process. If I want to start a new project in Linux I just type "vi" and start coding but it seems in VS that kind of simplicity is 20 years gone. Oh well, as long as coders think their life is being made easier thats all that matters I suppose regardless of the realities.

Anonymous Coward
Anonymous Coward

Re: It always makes me smile...

You can do that in Windows. Start up your favourite text editor, type some code, save it, and compile it using msbuild. No Visual Studio required at all. GOOD LUCK.

You will have to position every object yourself, in code, adjust every setting yourself, in code, constantly look up the settings for objects because there is no IntelliSense in your text editor... and so on. You won't have any sense of the 'Visual' in Visual Studio but at least you'll be able to move things pixel by pixel, manually.

You can edit code with vi, sure enough, but then you can do complex maths on an abacus - slowly. Things have moved on. The VS IDE isn't perfect, but for software requiring a visual interface, don't use a text editor and nothing else.

Mr Benny

Re: It always makes me smile...

"You will have to position every object yourself, in code, adjust every setting yourself, in code, constantly look up the settings for objects"

I'm talking about programming, you seem to be talking about carpentry. I don't think I've ever "positioned" an object in code or modified any "settings" unless you mean constructor parameters and not gas mark 5.

"but at least you'll be able to move things pixel by pixel, manually."

Can't say I've ever had to worry about that when writing network or data processing code.

"The VS IDE isn't perfect, but for software requiring a visual interface"

Which is a minority of software development in business enviroments.

Geoffrey W
Silver badge

Re: It always makes me smile...

Oooh, hark at Mr Swanky, who doesn't dirty his hands on those nasty trivial GUI things. Businesses using GUIs is a minority case? You must be a Real Programmer. Wish I lived in your elevated realm of purity so I too could sniffily turn up my nose at lesser mortals.

Mr Benny

Re: It always makes me smile...

I'd suggest learning to read first, then practice your poor sarcasm skills a bit more before posting again.

Dan 55
Silver badge

Re: It always makes me smile...

People recommending vi for coding were presumably lucky enough to find a job which pays well for writing variations of Hello World.

Anonymous Coward
Anonymous Coward

Re: It always makes me smile...

>> "The VS IDE isn't perfect, but for software requiring a visual interface"

> Which is a minority of software development in business enviroments.

Because the majority of businesses have computers but none of them have screens on which you need to display information and interact with user queries, right? Wrong.

If you work on a text-only terminal, that's fine. But don't for one minute think you are representative of the majority of software developers.

lesession

Re: It always makes me smile...

> "The VS IDE isn't perfect, but for software requiring a visual interface"

> Which is a minority of software development in business enviroments.

Maybe in a business environment where every end user is comfortable setting parameters via the command line, or alternatively is engaged in such a menial process that the software does it all for them and they're just turning the handle.

Everyone else, including the healthcare staff I write software for, much prefers a UI thanks.

Mr Benny

Re: It always makes me smile...

"People recommending vi for coding were presumably lucky enough to find a job which pays well for writing variations of Hello World."

Right, because coders today arn't often the lego brick variety who require half a dozen frameworks before they can even write something that prints Hello World.

Mr Benny

Re: It always makes me smile...

>> Which is a minority of software development in business enviroments.

>

>Because the majority of businesses have computers but none of them have screens on which you need

>to display information and interact with user queries, right? Wrong.

Another idiot who can't read. I said the majority of software DEVELOPMENT in business enviroments, not the majority of software. Most GUI software these days in businesses is BOUGHT IN you clueless clowns, very little is developed in house unless its a web based system. The vast majority will be back-end processing.

Anonymous Coward
Anonymous Coward

Re: It always makes me smile...

Mr Benny you are surely aware, are you not, that GUI software is created by software developers? Your narrow interpretation of (in your words) "software development in business enviroments" is what is at issue here. ALL software is developed in a business environment. Do you think that Microsoft develops its Office software in a field of sheep, or out at sea? An office full of programmers is a business environment.

Back-end processing, you say, is the 'vast majority'. That may be true, but who are you to say that little of that is done with software which has a GUI? Visual Studio programmers don't just write programs which display buttons and menus on the screen. They have to get the data from somewhere, and they write code to process the data.

VS makes software development easier because it has the tools to let programmers debug their software effectively, step through line by line in the code... if you are just an 'edit in vi, compile and run' programmer, that's fine, but that is old school and it is NOT the majority.

I've yet to work in a programming environment where there is back-end processing without the need to write code for front-end display of the data. If you have a custom back-end you need a custom front-end, hence the 'UI' in GUI - user interface.

Finally, It's telling that you add the caveat "unless its a web based system". Exactly. Welcome to the 21st century.

Mr Benny

Re: It always makes me smile...

"Mr Benny you are surely aware, are you not, that GUI software is created by software developers?"

One software house can write code for millions of businesses.

"VS makes software development easier because it has the tools to let programmers debug their software effectively, step through line by line in the code"

*GASP*! Step through line by line, mein got, what is this magic you speak of?! Oh, wait , I've been doing that on unix for 25 years along with using tracers and profilers. Welcome to the 1990s MIcrosoft.

boltar
Silver badge

Re: It always makes me smile...

"VS makes software development easier because it has the tools to let programmers debug their software effectively, step through line by line in the code."

Apparently you've never heard of gdb, dbx , strace etc. You think MS invented stepping debuggers? FFS , get a clue.

Geoffrey W
Silver badge
Happy

Re: It always makes me smile...

RE: "*GASP*! ... mein got, what is this magic you speak of?! "

I think someone else needs to polish their sarcasm skills.

P.S. That's a sarcastic smiley --------------------------------------------------------------------^

This is a real one :-)

Anonymous Coward
Anonymous Coward

Re: It always makes me smile...

The OP was comparing Visual Studio with vi. As far as I am aware, vi is a text editor and is not part of an IDE. The OP does not like IDEs for some reason, and doesn't really think that programming in a GUI is very common. And no, I do not think MS invented stepping debuggers. I never said that. The words you quote are 100% factual:

"VS makes software development easier because it has the tools to let programmers debug their software effectively, step through line by line in the code."

...unless you're saying that VS makes software development less easy, or that it doesn't including debugging tools.

Perhaps you need to look at the title and content of the article to remind yourself that the subject being discussed is Visual Studio, which is why I did not list a plethora of other debugging tools. You mentioned several tools, none of which are of particular use to a Windows developer.

Anonymous Coward
Anonymous Coward

Re: It always makes me smile...

"One software house can write code for millions of businesses."

That applies to any type of software, so what is your point? Is it that you believe that a software house with millions of business customers is less worthy than a business with its own programmers who write bespoke code for a single deployment?

"I've been doing that on unix for 25 years along with using tracers and profilers."

And I used to debug assembly code on 6502 processors in the 1980s, but these days I can do a whole lot more, a whole lot quicker, using the same Visual Studio you think is somehow slowing down the pace of software development. You prefer vi? Have at it, if that's what works for you. I used that on VAX systems to write COBOL in the 1980s, but so what? I moved on, so that I could do more work in far less time. Just because you don't like newer tools on other operating systems doesn't make them worse. They are quantifiably better, but only for the people who want to use them. If you don't, just don't.

Your whole issue seems to be that software development with and for GUI systems is inferior to development without, and that fewer people develop on GUI systems in business. I don't know how anyone would be able to convince you that that is not the case. Stick to your back-end development, and let those who do back- AND front-end get on with it.

Zippy´s Sausage Factory
Windows

Start page

That's always been there, as long as I can remember - right back to VS 2005 I think.

I actually use it quite a lot. The only real different I can see is that they've finally realised that everyone just turns the "Visual Studio News" RSS feed off and have removed it altogether and then made the open buttons nice and big.

Now if only they would give us the option to only show solutions when you open something inside a solution, and not add every project you touch into that most-recently-used list, THAT would be a blessing!

Geoffrey W
Silver badge

Re: Start page

I think (based on the article, not experience) the point here is that the start page has been disconnected from the IDE. It pops up and you select what you want to do before you enter the IDE. Apparently there is now also a wizard to step through for new projects. I will reserve judgement until I use it, probably not for a while if my clients remain as stubborn as ever, as I'm still on VS2015/VS2013/VS2010.

Your last paragraph resonates; remove a project from a solution and that project then appears at the top of the last used list. Even if you change your mind it's still useless as you can't use the list to add it back to the solution again.

karlkarl

Don't give a crap about the text editor. Hopefully Microsoft has contributed code to the CMake guys to integrate with the recent 'cl' compiler.

Basically developers only really use CMake anyway and without support in this, we will not be updating the toolchain until it down.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2018