back to article Canuck couple returns home after night on tiles to gaggle of randomers hanging out in their flat

Picture the scene, if you will. You and your partner have just rolled in through the front door after a rare and welcome night out on the lash. You might put the coffee on, maybe swipe a cheeky nightcap, before falling into bed and quickly deciding you're both too hammered to do what lovers do and drift off into deep, …

  1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    The landlord [..] denied ever passing Mongrain's keys to the group

    In other words, they got access to the flat but not because of him ?

    So he's basically accepting responsibility for having shit security ?

    Either that, or he's a liar.

    In both cases, it's time to get the hell out of there.

  2. User McUser

    Re: The landlord [..] denied ever passing Mongrain's keys to the group

    A third possibility is that the door was left unlocked (on purpose or by mistake) and the merry men of macaroni simply entered the wrong flat by honest mistake.

  3. BebopWeBop Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Re: The landlord [..] denied ever passing Mongrain's keys to the group

    And of course helped themselves to portable valuables 'by mistake'

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: The landlord [..] denied ever passing Mongrain's keys to the group

    A third possibility is that the door was left unlocked

    Quite possible in Canada actually.

  5. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Paris Hilton

    It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    "Thank God we were insured," the frazzled tenant said.

    What kind of insurance is it that pays for your home becoming a hippie center unannounced?

    Would it be listed under "acts of God"?

  6. Fungus Bob Silver badge
    Devil

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    Only if the god was Bacchus......

  7. eldakka Silver badge

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    What kind of insurance is it that pays for your home becoming a hippie center unannounced?

    I imagine it would come under such areas as repairs to damage incurred due to criminal break-and-enter, burglary and trespass.

  8. jake Silver badge

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    Vandalism. It's in my policy, at my insistence. I pay an extra $30/year for it.

  9. Giovani Tapini

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    It was Canada, so micro uzi not allowed I am afraid..

  10. Tom 7 Silver badge

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    It never pays to carry a gun. Even simple statistics show the weapon you buy to defend your family is the most likely weapon to be used to kill them, and make it more likely they die.

  11. Spanners Silver badge
    Holmes

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    It was Canada, a civilised country, so micro uzi not allowed I am afraid..

    FTFY

  12. jake Silver badge

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    It's not the tool, it's the user. If you allow the bad guy to take your pointy stick, the bad guy might use it against you or your family. Solution: Don't allow the bad guy to take your pointy stick.

    Or you could allow your government to ban the private use of pointy sticks ... and thus ensure little B1ff and Buffy never need to learn to write with pencil on paper. I'm sure your nanny state would approve heartily.

    As a side note, does anybody important use the Uzi anymore? I haven't seen one in over a decade, and I can't remember hearing the name mentioned in about as long.

  13. RegGuy1

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    It was ANY Canada, a civilised country, so micro uzi not allowed I am afraid..

    FTFY

    FTFY

    :)

  14. jake Silver badge

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    Of course, by "civilized country" you actually mean "a country where the .gov can do whatever it likes, secure in the knowledge that even if it eventually pisses off enough of the populace, the proles won't be able to do anything about it".

  15. SloppyJesse
    Terminator

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    "It's not the tool, it's the user. If you allow the bad guy to take your pointy stick, the bad guy might use it against you or your family. Solution: Don't allow the bad guy to take your pointy stick."

    Alternatively, only carry if you can guarantee 100% that no one could possibly take your stick. Can you do that? Can anyone?

    "Or you could allow your government to ban the private use of pointy sticks ... and thus ensure little B1ff and Buffy never need to learn to write with pencil on paper. I'm sure your nanny state would approve heartily."

    OK, you can keep pointy sticks that are clearly designed for uses that are socially acceptable, such as pencils. But you can't have pointy sticks that are purely designed to penetrate other humans against their will. While we're on the subject you can have items that fire projectiles such as nail guns and tennis practice machines, but not guns, on the same basis.

    "As a side note, does anybody important use the Uzi anymore? I haven't seen one in over a decade, and I can't remember hearing the name mentioned in about as long."

    Every time I watch my Arnie back catalogue. "Uzi 9mm, ar-sooo-lee". Icon : Arnie in his prime...

  16. d3vy Silver badge

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    @jake..

    I'm interested, what exactly do you think a population armed with rifles, handguns and (possibly semi auto rifles) will do against a government which spends more on its military than any other country on the planed (by a large margin)?

    Point your Glock at the sky and try to take out the predator drone streaking its way towards you?

  17. jake Silver badge

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    And how, exactly, can you tell what the intent of any random person carrying a pencil might be? Every pencil you see today might be intended to be used as an assassination weapon! Really! YOU CAN'T TELL THE INTENT OF THE PENCIL WIELDER!!! BAN ALL PENCILS!!!!

    See how silly you lot sound over your fear of the unknown?

  18. jake Silver badge

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    Quite honestly, D3vy, I hope to never have to find out. But the point is that my politicians know that there is a possibility of the populace rising against them. I seriously doubt that the military would back Capitol Hill if a fair percentage of the population took up arms against them. Fact is, the military are US citizens, too, and if the politicians were pissing off the civilians, the military probably would be equally irritated.

    I do not wish to see this happen on my watch; life would be hell for quite a while afterwards.

  19. ukgnome Silver badge

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    Calm down Jake, no one is coming to take your pencils.

    Although I couldn't find any mortality statistics on pencils, but it does seem that guns kill quite a lot of people.

    See how silly you're being now?

  20. Kane Silver badge

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    "Although I couldn't find any mortality statistics on pencils, but it does seem that guns kill quite a lot of people."

    Particularly when taken into consideration the ratio volume of pencils to guns.

  21. sed gawk

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    jake, you are normally quite sensible, surely you don't seriously think the right to bear arms is effective defence against USAF/other branch of the professional armed services, directed by a tyrannical government against the people.

    I like guns, I think they are fun and can be used safely, I'd rather have one and not need it, than need it and not have it. But, a gun as defence against tyrannical rule seems overly optimistic.

    On an unrelated note, would you mind documenting your greenhouse setup, you've mentioned it over the years, and I'm finally in a position to have my very own slack powered greenhouse, so in the market for tips.

  22. Mike Moyle Silver badge

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    We haven't risen against the robber capitalists, who are the ones actually screwing people over; I doubt the government has much to worry about.

  23. F111F
    Black Helicopters

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    Can't speak for @Jake, or his particular country, but if Afghanistan and other fights are any indication, a well-armed and determined populace will tie up any army and cause all kinds of trouble. Eventually, said army will withdraw because the only alternative is genocide. That's why Afghanistan continually kicks invading armies in the 'nards, including the current scenario playing out. The American forefathers had just gone through such a scenario with only 30% of the population for independence. They knew very well that a well-armed population is much more powerful than any army, the obvious exception being use of weapons of mass destruction/genocide which happens to be politically unpalatable in these modern times.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    "I'm interested, what exactly do you think a population armed with rifles, handguns and (possibly semi auto rifles) will do against a government which spends more on its military than any other country on the planed (by a large margin)?"

    Ah, the Rep. Swalwell "we've got nukes" gambit.

    https://twitter.com/RepSwalwell/status/1063527635114852352

    Very clever, at least it recognizes the reality of what it would take as US civilians have the US military and law enforcement outgunned by about 70 to 1.

    http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/weapons-and-markets/tools/global-firearms-holdings.html

  25. sed gawk

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    Afghanistan is a special case of a place that looks the same after bombing the shit out of it.

    It's a place that's easy to take and hard to hold.

    America - Britain and most of the developed world doens't meet that first point.

  26. mosw

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    @ F111F "..but if Afghanistan and other fights are any indication.."

    If Afghanistan is an example, then yes, an armed population might overthrow a government, but also likely replace it with anarchy and violence. If the goal is to make America more like Afghanistan then just keep adding more guns.

  27. TheVogon Silver badge

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    "Solution: Don't allow the bad guy to take your pointy stick."

    And how do you do that when he will have the element of surprise, whilst still being able to use it yourself at short notice?! If you dont have a gun, they cant take it to shoot you with. Simples.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    Never heard of La Resistance, have you? Guerilla operations? Ask the Russians how effective Afghan civilians with light weapons can be. A population with rifles can still manage revolutions and make life hell for oppressors.

    There's another flawed argument that you can't fight an army with improvised weapons such as single-shot guns made from plumbing pipes. However, nobody in their right mind faces organized units with such weapons! Instead, you use the improvised weapon to kill a soldier, then you take HIS military rifle and ammo. NOW you and some mates can attack enemy units.

    I find your lack of imagination and historical knowledge disturbing.

  29. Robert Helpmann?? Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    Wait! You mean no-ones coming for my pencil? As metaphors go, this one sounds like the start of a crap weekend.

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    @d3vy

    Why don't you ask anyone with military experience what it would be like for a military to go up against 150,000,000 armed and entrenched combatants in guerrilla warfare where the combatants have the support and sympathies of a large population of the "locals"?

    Add to that thought that some in the military might side with the combatants. All it would take is for a small number of military personnel (especially if they are officers) to side with the "guerrillas" and the whole thing is lost. As soon as the "guerrillas" get access to some military weapons and sympathetic personnel trained to use them, the military has no chance of winning this.

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @jake - Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    Sorry, mate, but in ANY democratic country (including good ol'US Gawd bless them) the government can and will do whatever it pleases no matter if citizens agree or not. Please don't tell me a US army M1 Abrams is in any way scared of your shiny 3D printer rifle, or any other hand gun for that matter. You're being deluded because government friendly big corporations want to make money by selling you guns and ammo.

    Don't believe me ? Read about the Waco Texas massacre and come back and tell us about scaring the government. The proles were no match against the small army sent to show them who's the boss.

    Please get real!

  32. Eddy Ito Silver badge

    Re: @jake - It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    Read about the Waco Texas massacre and come back and tell us about scaring the government.

    And just how many times do you think the line 'it's to save the kids in the compound from being raped and abused' is going to win over with the tank drivers?

    Besides, Koresh was first, a tactical idiot for thinking he could hold out in that dinky compound, and second, a contemptible prick for using children as a shield. These days I think everyone knows you need to be able to move unless you also think you're the messiah.

  33. TimeMaster T
    Meh

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    "It never pays to carry a gun."

    I have to disagree.

    Over the years I have been in two situations where carrying a gun saved my life, or at least kept me from being seriously injured. In both cases I did not have to draw my weapon, once it became known I was armed the threat to my safety ended.

    Guns are tools, just like a car, if you are careless or don't know how to use them properly they will end up injuring or killing someone.

    What does need to be addressed however is the sub culture that considers the use of deadly force to be an acceptable first response to any disagreement or conflict. Social programs that reduce poverty, improve education and provide job opportunities do more to reduce violent crime overall than gun control laws.

  34. TimeMaster T

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    I don't own a gun because I want to overthrow a corrupt government. I own a gun so I can protect my family and myself when someone else tries to overthrow the government, or any other time the rule of law fails.

    I live in an area that gets the occasional BIG natural disaster, the sort that takes out utilities for extended periods of time. I have supplies set aside for such times so my family and I are OK for a up to 2 weeks in a worst case scenario. Those supplies also include a gun and ammo, so that when, not if, someone else who could not/did not set aside supplies comes looking for my supplies, and anything else of value that catches their eye, I will be able to ensure that my family is safe. I know from experience that most of the time looters will simply move on to easier pickings when they see that you are armed, even if they are armed themselves.

  35. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    And how, exactly, can you tell what the intent of any random person carrying a pencil might be?

    I am with you. Let's take, for example, my daughter. In her case, it may indeed be used to kill you - her pencils are sharpened at 1:5 ratio, not the traditional 1:2.5. They can be considered an offensive weapon (*)

    However, first of all, that makes her one of the very few 1:10000 or more to have a true pencil offensive weapon. The rest do not. You simply cannot kill someone with a normal pencil. Screwdriver - yes(**). Normal pencil - no, unless you are as strong as Arnold and in that case you have plenty of less "awkward alternatives". Most importantly, they also have A NORMAL STANDARD USE. Same as screwdrivers by the way.

    That is different from a gun. Any gun can kill. It has NO OTHER USES. NONE. NADA. ZILCH. This is something I have taught my kids from the age of 5. Weapons are not jokes and there is no such thing as a "weapon to scare someone". There is no such thing as "weapon for personal security". If you yield a weapon you do it only with an intent to kill whoever or whatever it is pointed at. If you do not have that intent, better do not yield it. I had to repeat this lesson as recently as September - it is something you have to do regularly so it sticks.

    So back on the subject - the whole of USA has failed to learn this lesson. As individuals and as a nation. And it shows.

    (*) I had her school moan about it by the way (UK health and safety, don't we all love it)

    (*) One of the reasons screwdrivers with any level of sharpening were included in the old USSR offensive weapons list. It was as a result of it being carried by hardened criminals (what they call "thief in law") to circumvent the Stalin's era offensive weapons act.

  36. TimeMaster T
    Boffin

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    @sed gawk

    Afghanistan was, and parts of still are, a "Developed" country before the USSR invaded in 1979, then the Taliban, then the USA. Contrary to what people seem to think it is not a huge area filled with nothing but goat herders.

    Never underestimate the effectiveness of localized guerilla forces against a large trained military group, even in "developed" countries.

  37. Dig

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    This looks like the book for you

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Sharpen-Pencils-David-Rees/dp/1612193269

  38. Tom Chiverton 1

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    You should go to your neighbours with food and water, not guns.

    more achieved together than apart.

  39. Ghostman

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    You must be a Democrat, and can you show where that "statistic' comes from?

  40. Ghostman

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    It isn't talked about very much, but read the US Constitution, Section 8, paragraph 15 and 16.

    The militia, much of the populace, is to be armed the same as the military. So, legally, it should be equal.

    There have also been instances where the local populace refused to allow the army into towns and villages here in the US.

    One of the best can be checked out here: https://www.history.com/news/confederate-womwn-militia-civil-war

    A group of 40 stopped almost 3,000 Union troops from looting the town of LaGrange, Ga.

    Did I mention they were all women?

  41. Ghostman

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    Is this while they are being held with an ax wielding homicidal maniac?

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    Jake,

    [I will make the assumption that this related to the US of A.]

    Do you seriously believe that your govt *would* ever turn against the people ???

    Do you seriously believe that owning a gun would defend you against trained soldiers etc ???

    I understand the original intent of 'right to bear arms' and it made sense at the time and with the available arms BUT it does not work now !!!

    If it came to pass that you needed to defend yourself against your own govt they have the advantage in *all* ways. Unlike the police who find they are out gunned by some 'baddies' the armed forces and many of your federal agencies have access to better arms/training than average 'Joe Public'.

    'Right to bear arms' is an excuse to cover wanting to own guns but *never* will realistically defend you against your own govt.

    The secondary and more important problem is that the arms you own to defend your rights are more often than not used to settle arguments that don't need guns at all. That then escalates the need to own guns for anything/everything but the 'Right to bear arms' to protect you from your govt.

    Round and round we go ....... making huge profits for arms companies while doing nothing about the waste of lives each and every day.

  43. Anonymous Cow Herder

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    @ JAKE "See how silly you lot sound over your fear of the unknown?"

    Its not the fear of the unknown, its the fear of (highly) armed individuals who think its a good idea to escalate every situation that they encounter.

  44. Anonymous Cow Herder

    WMD

    " They knew very well that a well-armed population is much more powerful than any army, the obvious exception being use of weapons of mass destruction/genocide which happens to be politically unpalatable in these modern times."

    WMD and chemical weapons seem perfectly palatable to some regimes.

  45. Roland6 Silver badge

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    And this book will give you an example of how you might use those sharpened pencils

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibumi_(novel)

  46. jake Silver badge

    Re: It always pays to carry a Micro-Uzi in a shoulder holster

    First of all, you lot should collectively apologize to the fine folks in Anchorage, AK & environs. That collective knee-jerk reaction to what I wrote seems to have somehow become focused in their general direction ...

    "surely you don't seriously think the right to bear arms is effective defence against USAF/other branch of the professional armed services, directed by a tyrannical government against the people."

    Don't be silly, of course I don't. Go back and parse what I wrote.

    Re: my greenhouse ... it's archaic, at best. I'm in the middle of mulling an upgrade, probably based on either a RasPi or Arduino (AtMega 328, actually) ... but this isn't the place for this discussion. Maybe here instead?

  47. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Experienced something similar myself from the other side

    In-Law organised an Air-BnB accommodation for new years eve.. Taxi driver who took us from the ferry said she knew the place and dropped us off. Place was VERY nice and in-law was gloating about how well she had done - before heading off to secure provisions for the evening, leaving me to hold the fort while aged mother-in-law rests.

    Shortly thereafter, van load of youths arrive escorted by real estate agent, and it turns out the taxi driver DIDNT know the place, and i had to surrender the fort - and re-locate the mother-in-law. Also dead phone batteries so couldn't inform the away team,

    All in all it made the event quite memorable, and lessons learnt included always having a copy of documents/itinerary available, avoid Air-BnB, and avoid going on holidays with the in-laws.

  48. Pen-y-gors Silver badge

    Re: Experienced something similar myself from the other side

    Raises an interesting question, the same as the one in the article.

    If it was the wrong place, how did you get in? No key? No key-safe code? No 'key under 3rd flowerpot from the right'?

  49. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Experienced something similar myself from the other side

    "If it was the wrong place, how did you get in? No key? No key-safe code? No 'key under 3rd flowerpot from the right'?"

    ... however, there's the alternative approach (at least in the UK I think this now only applies to commercial and not residential properties) of "well we're in - who says its your place - go and get a court order and we'll stay here for the week or two that that will take"

  50. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Pen-y-gors

    The door was left unlocked - which was how in-law was told it would be, in arranging the stay.

    Supposedly this a) is common on the island in question, and b) the cleaners had just been in to prepare the place for the guests.

    When we got to the correct address - the door WAS locked, Had to wait outside with the mother-in-law left on the streetside to flag down the away team.

    Anon, anyone involved will recognise the incident though very unlikely to visit here, but to protect the rest of my posts.

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