back to article Microsoft readies the swatter as more bugs wriggle out of the Windows 10 woodwork

The "days without a Windows 10 incident" clock has been reset to zero once again as a tired Microsoft engineer updated the "known issues" page to reflect that, well, there are some. The support page for the latest update lists two. One is unlikely to trouble many, while the other has the potential to be considerably more …

  1. Keef

    Paint.

    They'd better not break that!

  2. big_D Silver badge
    Coat

    Re: Paint.

    It is already depricated. You should be painting in 3D already!

    Mine's the one with the Windows 3.1 floppies in the pocket.

  3. bombastic bob Silver badge
    Meh

    Re: Paint.

    They broke MS Paint in Windows 7 by adding "the ribbon".

    Worth pointing out, MS used to call a release candidate "release to manufacturing" once the BUG RATE got low enough. I wonder if the CURRENT bug rate is low enough based on their OLD standards for things like Windows '95 ???

  4. big_D Silver badge

    Re: Paint.

    Given that there is no manufacturing really involved any more, it goes direct to users, RTM now stands for Release to Muggles.

  5. big_D Silver badge

    Codecs?

    The WMP problem only affects certain file types.

    On my rig MP3 and Audible books work fine. I didn't have any other media to test this morning.

    Some people are saying it is certain codecs that are causing problems, which makes some sense as it is only specific file types that lose the "seek bar".

  6. Credas Silver badge

    Re: Codecs?

    Enlighten me - what does WMP do that something like VLC doesn't, better?

  7. big_D Silver badge

    Re: Codecs?

    Nothing. I actually had to go through the initial setup for wmp in order to test it.

  8. Agamemnon

    Re: Codecs?

    VLC has so many more CoDecs than WiMP (<- poor impulse control).

    I use it on Linux/Windows/Mac/Droids because it Just Works™. THen there's DRM in WiMP that Has Prevented me from playing Centrifugal Media that I actually own (Buckaroo Banzai being my favorite Fail).

    I see no point in using anything other than the thing that does what's on the Tin.

  9. nematoad Silver badge

    Right.

    We all know the old saying "He didn't get the memo". Well it looks like MS did get the memo. Trouble was it was the one meant for Facebook.

    You know, the one that reads "Move fast and break things".

    Not all IT companies are created equal.

  10. bombastic bob Silver badge
    Megaphone

    Re: Right.

    "Move fast and break things"

    yes, about that... the 'file associations' problem. BROKEN for (certain? only?) Win32 applications. It's getting attention around 'teh intarweb'.

    IMPLICATIONS: Micro-shaft is SLOWLY trying to ELIMINATE non-UWP applications!!!

    You know they want it. You know that "legacy" Win32 support HAS to be IRRITATING them. They've already SLAMMED THE DOOR on EVERY OS they've made that doesn't have UWP (anything prior to Win-10-nic, even when customers WANT the older ones). They've CRAMMED as much as they can cram and put UWP CRapps in our faces as PANELS in the 'Start Thing'. What MORE can they DO to FORCE everyone to CHANGE to UWP? [other than make it worth our while]

    Rumors have 'mongered' that it is Micro-shaft's long-term plan to KILL OFF WIN32. This would mean that ALL future applications are CRapps sold through "The Store", _AND_ it would KILL! OFF! WINE! and _ANY_ sense of compatibility for OLDER APPLICATIONS [that do not spy on you].

    So, aside from a conspiracy, WHY would the latest (broken) build of Win-10-nic NOT allow Win32 applications to do FILE ASSOCIATIONS??? That is a basic feature of Windows that has been around since FOREVER...

    Linux and FreeBSD (and maybe OS/X) may become the ONLY alternative for small-time application builders [and custom applications built within a corporation for its own use] to be able to install and run an application of your own design, and make it available for OTHERS to do the same [from a binary or source], _WITHOUT_ having to go through some "Store" or "code signing" nonsense to DO it!!!

    (I used to like windows because you could do all of that, and wrote some windows applications for company-only use a few of times - but NOW, it's becoming obvious that Micro-shaft does NOT want us to have THAT kind of freedom, unless THEY are "in the loop" - and get their 'piece of the action')

  11. Michael Habel Silver badge

    Re: Right.

    What MORE can they DO to FORCE everyone to CHANGE to UWP? [other than make it worth our while]

    Well I'm not one to swim against the tide, but I could be persuaded to upgrade on the following conditions.

    One) Use a simple TRADITIONAL GUI (e.g. Windows 9x ~ Windows 7 was never broke, SO DONT FIX IT!)

    Two) Stop spying on me. Friends just mind their own business, its bad enough that Google, and <INSERT Social Media> platforms are doing this. But, I don't get my Mainline Workstation OS from them either. Just 'cause everyone else is seen to be doing this. It shouldn't just be accepted as Card Blanc for you too!

    Three) Stop treating your paying customers as Guinea Pigs its not even bad enough that you have to spy on us to keep milking us. But, your releasing Software now, that make Linux look like a well founded OS. (Of course it is, but well get on that in a sec.)

    Do these things, and People would tend to hate you just a little bit less, than they just happen to at the moment.

    Now I'm not sure just what the hangup on Linux actually is that's causing the 'Publishers' distress. (i.e. Adobe (Lightroom & Photoshop etc), Serif LTD (Affinity Photo / Illustrator), just off the top of my head, is it the gcc Compiler thats the cause of it? If so could thay not just make a comercial friendly compiler? Or barring it all, just pick a defacto version of BSD, that ISN'T (Cr)Apple, and move there instead? But in this VERY REGUARD Linux is absolutly no better. Fact is its as abysmal as ever, when you take in the vast library of M$DOS / Windows Software into context. Yes we have Virtual Box, and WINE to try and, sneek 'round this. But, I feel with the eventual implosion of Windows 7 in about a Years time, this is something the Gurus need to welcome. If Linux is to ever move forward, as a non-techie OS.

    As things stand, with Darktable, and Gimp as a hobbyist photograper, I'm not displeased by those Tools. But, my Laptop seems to have problems running Cinnamon on my Intel / nVidia Laptop. I think I tracked it down to the One of the latest updates regurading the Display. (i.e. Possibly Cinnamon itself, of X11? I might try installing these One by one to see which one is the culprit).

  12. Dave K Silver badge

    MS should start selling popcorn. It'd be a perfect complimentary product for everyone to enjoy whilst they watch the ongoing carnage...

  13. Mike Lewis

    Popcorn?

    I shudder to think what MS popcorn would be like. There would be problems with those kernels too.

  14. Michael Habel Silver badge
    Boffin

    Re: Popcorn?

    I can just see the Worms in those Kernels now!

  15. eswan

    "The paranoid, or those still clinging to the glory days of Windows Media Center, might regard this as evidence of an attempt to remove the aged player from the OS once and for all."

    More like pieces falling off as the OS rattles off into the sunset.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    TBH

    TBH I'd say the OS itself is not the problem. Or the programmers and engineers. The designers and management. Well, that is whole different kettle of fish!

  17. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

    More like pieces falling off as the OS rattles off into the sunset

    Oi! I resemble that remark!

    In no way is Windows 10 remotely like a Morris Minor..

  18. Michael Habel Silver badge

    I say so long, and NO THANKS for anything. WMP was always a festering pile of Dong since, way back when. VLC is far, and away vastly more superior to it in pretty much every way. For Music (Back in the day, it would have either been WinAmp, or iTunes v4*). Today I find myself guilty of having moved on to Google Play Music, for those needs.

    *Before the Music Store came out., and iTunes was just a decent Tager, Player frontend for my Third-Gen iPod.

  19. Michael Habel Silver badge

    No but, I doubt there are few here that wouldn't want to see a Piano droppedon the Windows 10 Team. I for One would find it higly amusing.

  20. LeahroyNake Bronze badge

    snip

    They are messaging around with the ship tool as well :o I can't believe that I'm saying this but the new version may be slightly better ! Now you can draw arrows and stuff on your snip..

    But.... why the hell is the save icon in the top right corner ? Seriously it's always been under file / save and or an icon in the top left that looks like a floppy disk ?? . Are there any guidelines for UI design left in windows?

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: snip

    No one has seen a floppy disk in living memory. That I can forgive them for, changing the icon. But moving things for no reason, that is bad!!!

  22. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    Re: moving things for no reason, that is bad!!!

    Get with the program. Moving things for no reason is the entire raison d'être of the new UI paradigm. Many consultants in expensive suits promote the idea to "surprise the user" and "enhance the experience".

    Because, once you have a product that does everything the user needs, it's the only thing you can do to maintain the appearance that you did some work.

    Oh - that and breaking it, of course.

  23. bombastic bob Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Re: snip

    "Are there any guidelines for UI design left in windows?"

    something including the word "FEEL" most likely.

    2D FLATTY monochrome FLUGLY with no 3D effects and sharp rectangular corners, low-contrast bright blue on blinding white, too much wasted screen real estate, and ambiguous shapes that act like hot spots for mouse-clicking because they want your eyes to wander around while you GUESS what to do, based on the complete lack of REASONABLE cues from the UI design.

    Next, they'll use fingerpaint and crayons to design it.

    What ELSE can you expect from a generation of PARTICIPATION TROPHY RECIPIENTS that are CONSTANTLY needing their self-esteem re-affirmed, and who've OBVIOUSLY taken over the asylum (otherwise known as windows development). Because if *THEY* *FEEL*, then *WE* *MUST* *ACCEPT* it. Because, they're Micro-shaft, and we're just "the end users".

  24. Kevin Johnston Silver badge

    Re: snip

    I always worry when I agree with a Bombastic Bob post. I can never decide if I missed my meds or if I missed the joke

    :)

  25. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

    Re: snip

    I can never decide if I missed my meds or if I missed the joke

    Yes.

  26. Michael Habel Silver badge

    Re: snip

    What the fresh Hell is a Floppy Disk? Perhaps they could use an SD Card to represent that now.

  27. J27

    "The paranoid" would have already removed WMP, wouldn't they? Unmaintained code is the scariest code.

  28. Diodelogic

    I Just Don't Understand

    Features and functions reported as being "broken" in the 1809 update work properly on my Windows 10 x64 install.* I'm following the steps people claim to fail or break, and there's just no problem. There hasn't been any problem with updates/patches since I installed Windows 10 on three computers (a desktop, laptop, and tablet) the first or second day it was released. As I've said before, I'm using the same bits as other people so I cannot for the life of me understand why failures are being reported when I never see them.

    I am NOT saying this in an effort to refute the claims, but rather to suggest that perhaps some other fault may be involved.

    *I want to note that I do not use some of the software said to be experiencing problems, such as iCloud or Windows Media Player. However, I can associate file extensions with any Windows app that I want all day long and it works as it is supposed to work (as one example.)

  29. Natalie Gritpants Jr

    Re: I Just Don't Understand

    The reason is that you don't have the same combination of stuff in your computers. A windows install includes drivers for your hardware as well as all the different flavours of windows OS and windows features. The fact that you don't see problems and others do is probably down to luck.

  30. bobjimwhit

    Re: I Just Don't Understand

    i agree...people just like to knock microsoft.

    if they are the one in a million that have a problem it makes them feel special

  31. herman Silver badge

    Re: I Just Don't Understand

    You must be working for the MS QA Department - they never detect any problems with anything.

  32. Diodelogic

    Re: I Just Don't Understand

    @herman:

    Nope. I'm so sorry that it bothers you that I refuse to piss and moan about problems I'm not having.

  33. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    someone should do a spreadsheet (in Excel of course)

    Showing all the patches issues by MS, against what they were supposed to deliver.

    Because from where I'm sitting (at a Linux laptop) it seems these are patches to patches to patches with zero new functionality (i.e. visible benefit to the user) being introduced.

    So that's 10o% pain for 0% gain. Especially if you take the rather harsh view that *any* patch is an admission of failure on MS part anyway.

    For those old enough to remember chart music, Windows 10 appears to have multiple mixes - and all the buyer wants (to qoute Sir Lenswell Henry) is the one "where they got it right"

  34. TechnicalBen Silver badge

    Re: Mixes.

    That reminds me. Yeah, I do like remixes. But quite often, there one or two remixes, possibly from only the best artists, then the original. When you get a single with 5 different versions, 3 of them could be cut, easily.

  35. bombastic bob Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Re: someone should do a spreadsheet (in Excel of course)

    Maybe they could get around all of this by JUST patching 7 so that it supports the latest hardware and has no more (known) security holes, then release it as a service pack for 7, and extend support for a few more years. I'd actually *PAY* for that! [I'd get my UI back the way I want it, mostly]

    Micro-shaft, instead, focuses on the "feature creep" in Win-10-nic and therefore wastes their efforts, while simultaneously FAILING at the thing they're ACTUALLY supposed to be doing (a RELIABLE operating system).

    It's all wrong, now. It's gone horribly, horribly wrong.

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Back in the 90's we were supposed to have been destroyed by an army of hi tech robots controlled skynet by 2018. Instead we've got windows 10 which can't even update itself without committing suicide. I suppose we should be thankful....

  37. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Don't all cyborgs have a "kill switch"?

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "And so, my fellow users, ask not what Microsoft can do for you; ask what you can do for Microsoft"

  39. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sadly...

    That is the main risk. Not of AI taking over and causing trouble, but of AI failing to even boot, and then causing trouble (see latest landing on Mars for where code works and does things well! :) ).

  40. David 132 Silver badge
    Happy

    AC Don't all cyborgs have a "kill switch"?

    Killbots have a preset kill limit - just ask Zap Brannigan...

  41. DerekCurrie
    Meh

    Re: Back in the 90's...

    What's being called "AI" these days is merely improved speech to text technology derived from decades old Dragon technology, improved text to speech technology, combined with advanced Expert Systems, which have also been around for decades. It's modern database traversal with talking input and output. It's Artificial Illusions of 'intelligence', supported by lots of marketing hype.

    Considering the profound, numerous and consistent security flaws inherent in modern coding, it's going to be a long, long time, if ever, before we have any sort of 'self-aware' devices. Maybe if we dump all (ALL) of our current programming languages and start from scratch with the evolution of something inherently secure, coherent and understandable by mere mortals, we'll have a fighting chance at making AI machines that can make decisions independent of our political overlords, such as deciding to kill us all for the benefit of miracle planet Earth, our only home. It could happen!

  42. georgezilla

    Re: Sadly...

    My guess is that the latest Mars lander runs Linux ....

    You know the OS that is crap and only for hobbyists.

  43. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

    Re: Sadly...

    My guess is that the latest Mars lander runs Linux ..

    Previous ones have run VxWorks - I don't know if that's still the case.

  44. Stuart Halliday

    Photoshop with jpgs is broken.

  45. elhvb

    Photoshop with jpgs is broken.

    Aaaah... adding some Adobe to the mix. Guarantee for explosive results...

  46. A.P. Veening

    Windows 10 incident clock

    "The "days without a Windows 10 incident" clock has been reset to zero once again."

    Looks to me like that clock should be showing hours instead of days if it ever wants to show a respectable number (more than 1) again

  47. Khaptain Silver badge

    Broken file associations

    "In some cases, Microsoft Notepad or other Win32 programs cannot be set as the default."

    Let's just pray that "Notepad++" is not included in this latest round of "features". Ok it's not default Windows but I cant think of many Pros that don't install it very very quickly.

  48. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Broken file associations

    Khaptain,

    Prefer 'Programmer's Notepad 2' myself !!!

    :)

  49. Teiwaz Silver badge
    Coat

    I can hardly believe another MS issue

    As a long time 'Linux user, I've refrained from commenting on the many recent Windows update bug articles.

    This time I'm honestly unsurprised. MS deprecated WMP some time ago, from their perspective they can hardly be blamed for not including it in any tests.

  50. Ken Hagan Gold badge

    Re: I can hardly believe another MS issue

    "MS deprecated WMP some time ago, from their perspective they can hardly be blamed for not including it in any tests."

    If they are shipping it, they should test it. If they don't want to test it, they shouldn't ship it.

    As others have already implied, there are better and equally free media players out there. It would not detract from the usefulness of Windows if they pulled WMP, or a number of other applets to be honest. (Like, nearly all of the Metro craplets that are still cluttering up the new Start Menu.)

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