back to article Microsoft: You don't want to use Edge? Are you sure? Really sure?

Microsoft really wants you to use Edge in the latest Windows Insider builds, and the software giant is not afraid to let you know it. Windows Insider Sean Hoffman took to Twitter last night to express his displeasure at a pop-up shown by Windows 10 when he attempted to install an alternative browser. When he ran the Firefox …

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Flame

Dear Microsoft

Please Bug off and take your POS browser with you.

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Re: Dear Microsoft

Please BING off and take your POS browser with you.

There.....FTFY.

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Re: Dear Microsoft

I don't think it's unreasonable in preview software for the vendor to expect you to fully test all features and ask you to use their programs. If this is in post release then we can rightly kick up some fuss and I'll be front of the queue.

I know, not a popular viewpoint; downvote away.

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Re: Dear Microsoft

Read the article and the links. This is not pitched as a preview feature, this is pitched as a shitty, intrusive and annoying feature for the next iteration.

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Re: Dear Microsoft

Read it yourself..."in the latest Windows Insider builds"

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Devil

Re: Dear Microsoft

"a shitty, intrusive and annoying feature for the next iteration."

like 'Clippy' ?

/me plays oblitatory "It looks like you're writing a letter" salmon days BOFH video clip.

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@Lusty -- Re: Dear Microsoft

I know, not a popular viewpoint; downvote away.

Done.

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Re: Dear Microsoft

If it were aimed purely at testing, Microsoft would have said so in the pop-up. Or are you trying to say that Insiders don't know what Edge is? If so, MS really is in trouble...

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Trollface

Re: Dear Microsoft

Yes, Edge is the tool Microsoft provides for downloading the Firefox installer. Not as good as BSD Ports, but it does the job.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Dear Microsoft

> If this is in post release then we can rightly kick up some fuss and I'll be front of the queue.

If nobody kicked up a fuss now, it would make it to release. And if such a feature makes it to release, the damage will already have been done before the decision can be reversed.

If a law were proposed to empty the bank accounts of anyone calling themselves "Lusty", would you wait until it were made enforceable law before kicking up a fuss?

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Mushroom

Re: Dear Microsoft -- You Did It To Yourself!!!

You tried to co-opt the standards of the Internet by packaging your perversion of the standards in a browser built into the O.S--with the clear intent to addict both users and software developers to it--because you knew developers wouldn't pay attention to standards and API specifications and instead design to the bugs of your twisted f'd up product. Now you pay the price. Entire organizations have web applications that only work on that perverted browser and can't use Edge. Hah!!! Eat your own shit!

Gawd it feels so incredibly good to say we told you so.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Dear Microsoft -- You Did It To Yourself!!!

"Entire organizations have web applications that only work on that perverted browser and can't use Edge"

Yes, and Microsoft is one of them. That said, there are a lot of wifi routers - commercial ones - which only work with IE for their login page. That's inexcusable, IE wasn't even still a thing when these devices were made!

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Re: Dear Microsoft

"If nobody kicked up a fuss now, it would make it to release."

If it makes it to release, I can see the EU sitting up and taking notice. They have to replenish their coffers once the UK stops paying it's membership dues.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Dear Microsoft

Well Edge is certainly faster and less resource hungry than Chrome. But not more secure I think.

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Re: Dear Microsoft -- You Did It To Yourself!!!

"Entire organizations have web applications that only work on that perverted browser and can't use Edge."

Edge has a setting called 'Enterprise Mode" that automatically switches to IE on websites of choice so yes they can. It's one of the major reasons enterprises dont use say Chrome on Windows 10.

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Re: Dear Microsoft -- You Did It To Yourself!!!

"It's one of the major reasons enterprises dont use say Chrome on Windows 10."

And yet we have IE-specific apps that won't run in Edge no matter what we do. After the last Win10 update came down the wire even IE would just sit there sullenly refusing to pick them up and run with them. The current workaround is an IE compatibility extension to Chrome.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Dear Microsoft

" less resource hungry "

oh dear, another pleb who loves to have unused, wasted resources in his device.

Me, I want it to use everything at it's disposal, as long as it can free it up at a moments notice, when something else needs it. I find Chrome pretty good at this.

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Re: Dear Microsoft

Except I am not on the insider program, and it did that on server2016 when I installed Chrome months ago.

It also does it if you install Adobe reader.

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Pirate

Re: Dear Microsoft -- You Did It To Yourself!!!

"IE wasn't even still a thing when these devices were made!"

Not the devices, no. But when the original firmware was written, it was 2002 and Life Was Better With IE6. No need to patch code that's Known To Work, even 15 years later, right?

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Re: Dear Microsoft -- You Did It To Yourself!!!

"And yet we have IE-specific apps that won't run in Edge no matter what we do."

See the comment above. Use Enterprise Mode to automatically launch them in IE.

"After the last Win10 update came down the wire even IE would just sit there sullenly refusing to pick them up"

So they used to work but now dont. Probably related to a security lockdown, which can generally be removed with the right policy setting. Suggest pressing F12 to enter dev mode, selecting the network tab, pressing the play button to start it analysing and then typing in the URL. That should show you where it's going wrong.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Dear Microsoft

>>oh dear, another pleb who loves to have unused, wasted resources in his device."

Unfortunately Chrome also uses more resources when they are in short supply. You might have plenty of other reasons to use Chrome, but Edge is definately in general faster with lower resource use.

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Anonymous Coward

"Microsoft is doubtless gauging reaction"

... and listening carefully for any screaming coming from the direction of the EU, I'm sure.

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Stop

Er ... weren't the 90s-noughties browser wars fought over this shit ?

And MS lost ?

Certainly for personal computing needs these days, MS really aren't in that strong a position. No one *needs* Windows that much. (Moribund workplaces don't count).

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Er ... weren't the 90s-noughties browser wars fought over this shit ?

they lost? Yeah, they f... lost, sure. Only that it took 10 years, when the ruling came, and nobody gave a flying monkey f... (other than the lawyers).

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Re: Er ... weren't the 90s-noughties browser wars fought over this shit ?

The browser choice dialog worked, when it was removed Firefox downloads dropped 63%.

(Meanwhile, Google spammed Chrome at people with Search.)

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Re: Er ... weren't the 90s-noughties browser wars fought over this shit ?

Yes, and the wars never really ended.

The picture of Google pushing chrome clearly illustrates that we have just traded one monopolist for another, and that Google also should receive the loving embrace of it's own consent decree.

The browser choice dialog helped but it still failed, as it never leveled the playing field. It gave you a false choice between "Nothing but Microsoft's built in browser that can't be uninstalled" and "One of a small list of other browsers AND the one you don't want and can't get rid of, tough luck"

M$ buried IE's code deep in the OS, and the US and EU both refused to make M$ remove it or place 3rd party browsers on remotely equal footing. They still aren't.

Microsoft needs to get out of denial that they blew their shot with Edge at launch, along with Windows 8. They needed to fix it's basic usability and security issues, like allowing a single modal fave virus alert to jam the browser across system reboots. They didn't and as a result people hate it. They hate it enough to pay someone to reinstall their OS to windows 7. Trying to nag and trick people into switching back to it is going to fail hard, and in an embarrassingly public way.

Now it's just like the war in Afghanistan. No amount of ignoring that it's lost can ever make you win.

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Re: Er ... weren't the 90s-noughties browser wars fought over this shit ?

"No one *needs* Windows that much. (Moribund workplaces don't count)."

True. This development environment for the microprocessor I use? Pfft. Who needs it? I should just learn to hand-code in binary.

Or just find a less suitable processor that has a Linux IDE. Because there are so many to choose from.

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Holmes

More bloat in an already over bloated OS

Microsoft need a legal lesson that our computers are not theirs to control and run as they see fit.

Regardless of which operating system is installed, or how many.

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Re: More bloat in an already over bloated OS

Secure boot make that hard....

But running Linux is a better choice.

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Big Brother

Re: More bloat in an already over bloated OS

didn't you get the memo?

you know the one from MS that clearly stated that the OS is theirs and their EULA means that they can do whatever they want to it even if it is on your hardware. What they giveth they can taketh away.

You will do what they allow and only what they allow or they'll take their OS and go home.

/s /s /s

Seriously, this is really taking the piss. SatNad and his crew in Redmond get more like BB each and every day.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: More bloat in an already over bloated OS

Actually they are not yours, exactly. You own the OS license, not the OS itself. Microsoft owns the OS.

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Re: More bloat in an already over bloated OS

Which means that you can't redistribute it. It in no way means that Microsoft gets to treat your machine as if they own it.

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Unhappy

Re: More bloat in an already over bloated OS

"SatNad and his crew in Redmond get more like [Big Brother] each and every day"

Like that graphic with Bill G. as Locutus of Borg. It's been happening for a while. SatNad is just the latest. I would say 'Borg Queen' but that has so many alternate implications I figured I'd leave that one alone... oops, too late.

When i went to check on a security vulnerability yesterday, I had to load the MS link for the CVE in a separate security context and process incarnation of firefox that allows script AND cookies [and then dumps it all when I close it - ha ha]. Upon loading the MS link for the CVE report, which basically didn't tell me anything useful, I had to AGREE to their TOU for some @#$% reason...

just how far are they gonna TAKE that #&%$ anyway?

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aks

Re: More bloat in an already over bloated OS

Your computer, your choice of operating system.

Their operating system, what's wrong with offering a one-time suggestion?

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Re: More bloat in an already over bloated OS

Microsoft need a legal lesson that our computers are not theirs to control and run as they see fit.

No one is stopping you from installing another OS on your computer, you are in control of that.

And if you have installed Windows, why are you complaining? You should have known what you're getting in to.

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Re: More bloat in an already over bloated OS

"Microsoft need a legal lesson that our computers are not theirs to control and run as they see fit.

Regardless of which operating system is installed, or how many."

Good thing you aren't an iMac fan............

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Re: More bloat in an already over bloated OS

"You will do what they allow and only what they allow or they'll take their OS and go home."

Sounds like Zappa's "I'm The Slime": https://genius.com/Frank-zappa-im-the-slime-lyrics

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Re: More bloat in an already over bloated OS

"Which means that you can't redistribute it. It in no way means that Microsoft gets to treat your machine as if they own it."

And that, folks, is the crux of all of this. Microsoft is planning on actively scanning everything you do on your system. In my paranoid world, it means that they probably already are

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He should not worry. There is no way to change the default browser to anything but IE or edge. The option to choose another program seems to have accidentally disappeared. Even if you did manage to switch Edge will once again be the default after the next upgrade.

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All of this is an effort to gauge how much the frog complains about being boiled.

If the frog complains too much that piece of code will be backed out otherwise it'll stay.

It's not as if it hasn't happened before on Windows 10...

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"...no way to change the default browser to anything but IE or edge."

Really?!?! isn't that going to be a problem in the EU?

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Pirate

"isn't that going to be a problem in the EU?"

Probably, but not before Microsoft has made 3 times more money than they'll have to pay in fines. So it's still a Microsoft win, sadly.

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Linux

Links to resolutions, will work with any browser

Here are several sites which will resolve this problem for good:

https://www.ubuntu.com/

https://www,opensuse.org

https://www.linuxmint.com

etc...

Really, why do people put up with this nonsense? It's just not necessary.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Links to resolutions, will work with any browser

OK, I'll bite. Because they're not sitting in their bedroom with one PC, but instead have a fleet of > several thousand PCs that have to be usable by staff trained in, experienced with and productive in Windows, running software that only runs on Windows, intereacting with other companies that also use windows apps and file formats. Perhaps you're new to the IT world and El Reg in particular?

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Joke

Re: Links to resolutions, will work with any browser

I tried going to the openSUSE link but in true linux fashion it didn't work out the box and had to be tweaked before it would work.

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Re: Links to resolutions, will work with any browser

Perhaps not for long in Edge/IE: You already have Windows 10, the safer, faster OS for ouryour PC. Go to microsoft.com / Visit Linux distribution site anyway

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Re: Links to resolutions, will work with any browser

@Coward

Would those be the same staff that have to be retrained to use the clusterfuck that is windows 10 ?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Links to resolutions, will work with any browser

Normal users (email n' excel n' word n' internet) don't need retrained to use Windows 10.

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Re: Links to resolutions, will work with any browser

@Tinslave

Not true! None of those resolutions will let me install and run IE/Edge!

And thank $deity for that!

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Re: Links to resolutions, will work with any browser

"Because they're not sitting in their bedroom with one PC, but instead have a fleet of..."

You almost certainly have at least 10 unix systems in your house, doing their jobs so unobtrusively that you don't even notice them.

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