back to article Some of you really don't want Windows 10's April 2018 update on your rigs

The charge of the Windows 10 April 2018 Update continued into July with 84 per cent of lucky, lucky users seeing their desktops upgraded, according to AdDuplex. The rate at which the code was flung at PCs slowed a little, which was inevitable considering June's impressive (or alarming, depending on your point of view) 78 per …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    From experience...

    ...the bloody thing wouldn't install.

    Uninstalled a load of stuff (usual suspects like updating AV and anti-malware to Win 10 1803 compatible versions and then uninstalling them completely etc), uninstalled old software that I just don't use anymore in the hope that something would provide an easy fix, but nope, upgrade would attempt to install and fail.

    Updated drivers, ran disk checks, ran system checks (via sfc and dism) and eventually found an error log that said Windows Update was running out of memory. Scratched my head while wondering how....in the meantime, a few more failed installs and reboots.

    After much wailing and gnashing of teeth, it turns out that the auto-updated for my AMD GPU drivers was disabled.... I hadn't bothered checking them as I had seen them update many times over the life of the computer and thought they would be OK...

    Total time between first attempted patch install and success? About 4 weeks... I'm not going to suggest I know what I'm doing, but MS could certainly make the troubleshooting process easier....

    1. Martin

      Re: From experience...

      I can't install it on my machine either. In my case, it's simply that I only have a 32G SSD. I've tried adding an extra USB disk temporarily, but it still won't install.

      It starts by saying You need at least 10G free. After a bit of hard work, I manage to get 10G free, let it update for about three hours - and then it fails.

      And it always fails with a magic number - nothing useful. But when you look up the magic number, it goes to a Microsoft page which says "You need more disk space".

      It's quite clear that 32G is NOT enough to run Windows 10 - or at least, not enough to be able to upgrade it.

      And people wonder why I use Chromebooks and Linux rather than Windows boxes.

      (I have exactly ONE piece of software which I can't run on Wine and has no equivalent on Linux. That's all I need this box for.)

      1. Jason Hindle

        Re: From experience...

        I wouldn’t be brave enough to try upgrading a 32GB machine (and, quite frankly, a pox on the houses of those who would make and sell them). However, a USB stick or SD card should do the trick. I’ve found the Windows Update Troubleshooter a reliable, but sadly necessary, friend from time to time.

      2. Gene Cash Silver badge

        Re: From experience...

        > I have exactly ONE piece of software which I can't run on Wine and has no equivalent on Linux. That's all I need this box for.

        Does VirtualBox do the trick? It runs Suzuki Diagnostics System for me, which is a very nasty piece of kit, and even talks to the dongles properly over USB.

        1. Da Weezil

          Re: From experience...

          "Does VirtualBox do the trick? It runs Suzuki Diagnostics System for me, which is a very nasty piece of kit, and even talks to the dongles properly over USB."

          Hmmm I wonder if it would run VCDS which according to Ross-Tech wont run under anything but a pukka Windows install... (No virtual machines they claim)?

          I have that for the Skoda VRS and Seat FR in the household and is the sole reason for still having win7 on a lone laptop, everything else here is OSX or Linux Mint.

          1. quxinot

            Re: From experience...

            VCDS works on virtualbox. Ross-tech just won't support it officially. At least with the HEX-CAN interface, I have no experience with the wireless versions.

            I do recall that there was a trick involved, but couldn't tell you what that was even about. If you're comfortable with virtualbox, give it a shot!

            1. quxinot

              Re: From experience...

              Can't edit on mobile, so apologies for self-relplying here.

              VCDS runs on XP, much faster booting and lighter in a VM, which you'll probably not allow online other than for updates (which aren't necessary for VCDS unless you are trying to work on a new car not in your database.... in which case, just download the latest version and copy it locally to the VM instead of letting it go online itself).

              The other piece of software that I'd like to try in v-box is Eurodyne Maestro, but I haven't needed to go that route just yet (already using APR's software in the ECU, so major hardware changes are needed to justify the change).

          2. dansbar

            Re: From experience...

            I run VCDS in a w10 vmware virtual machine on a 2017 macbook pro and before that on a w7 VM on a 2008 unibody macbook pro. Works perfectly, vmware had no trouble identifying and passing the ross-tech USB cable to the VM.

            1. J27

              Re: From experience...

              Quite often software publishers will claim their software isn't compatible with something because they want to bother supporting it. That's been the case with several of my previous employers.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: From experience...

            Rosstech is right, it wont run PROPERLY.

            The last thing you want is a dodgy ff or a0 going in your ECU.

        2. Martin

          Re: From experience...

          Does VirtualBox do the trick?

          That would involve me having to actually find a Windows 10 installation, with presumably some sort of license that I'd have to pay for, wouldn't it? (I'd rather not do something actually illegal...)

    2. I3N
      Pint

      Re: From experience...

      Tried several things over a couple of days and still no luck ... watched Windows 10 back out of the upgrade every time ... changed course to do something more productive - digging ditches and laying Cu water lines and then some 2" PVC conduit to run the POE out to the outhouse ... updating my F77 code to f03

    3. TheVogon Silver badge

      Re: From experience...

      "16% have their heels firmly planted"

      Only because the damn thing wont install or they are out of diskspace, etc.

    4. DuncanLarge Bronze badge

      Re: From experience...

      "MS could certainly make the troubleshooting process easier"

      But that means telling the end user the details of the error, with error codes and the like, Instead of "Something went wrong, try again later".

      Madness

      :p

    5. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Re: From experience...

      MS could certainly make the troubleshooting process easier....

      Really, I can't imagine anything more helpful than a message that says "Windows Update encountered an unknown error: 8 hex digits".

      Though since those error codes are generally the well-known Windows exception IDs, you'd think someone at Microsoft could, er, update the Windows Update code so they wouldn't be "unknown".

      What with the useless error messages, Microsoft's refusal to display any useful information about any updates, the meaningless progress indicators, the glacially slow pace of installation, the multiple-phase install process (installing, and then when it starts shutdown more installing, and then after rebooting more installing), the reboot requirement, the reboot nagging... Windows Update has pretty much the worst UX imaginable for a modern OS update process. Just an astounding display of incompetence.

  2. Khaptain Silver badge

    Stop breaking stuff

    It seems as though every updates is perfectly executed to break something.

    The OEMs are definately not following at the same rate, todays adventure, the last updates f**k around with cheap intel G45 cards and high resolution ( 1920*1080, cough) no longer appears in the list of available options. Intel does not have native G45 drivers for Windows 10 but up until the latest batch things were working just fine...

    Result 2 hours spent doing nothing but desperately trying old drivers until one of them worked.

    Do updates and remain safe from security exploits : OK. When it breaks your damned system obviously you are safe because you cant get any work done anyway.... gggggrrrrrrr..

    And I see no reason that W7 runs fine on older equipement whereas W10 can be a dog to "keep" running correctly...

    1. tony72

      Re: Stop breaking stuff

      That's the problem with this model. In the good old days, between new major versions of windows, things were pretty stable, and you could deal with all the breakages all in one go when a new version dropped. But with the new rolling upgrades model, we are doomed to dealing with ongoing random breakages, without any continuous years of stability.

      My tale of woe from the April '18 update was that it broke USB device forwarding in NoMachine. After much head scratching and blaming NoMachine, it turned out that a new (or newly enabled-by-default) Connected Devices Platform Service was now hogging the port that NoMachine uses. Thanks Microsoft.

      1. Adelio

        Re: Stop breaking stuff

        Wifes lapton the WIFI stopped working. as I do not use it i thought the WIFI card stopped working, got a replacement that also did not work.

        I later found out microsft had rolled out another ***CKUP update that broke Hp lapton WIFI....

      2. JohnFen Silver badge

        Re: Stop breaking stuff

        Indeed, this is one of the larger reasons (but certainly not the only one) why I think that this "rapid release" fad is a terrible, terrible thing for all concerned.

      3. Noonoot

        Re: Stop breaking stuff

        "After much head scratching and blaming NoMachine, it turned out that a new (or newly enabled-by-default) Connected Devices Platform Service was now hogging the port that NoMachine uses. Thanks Microsoft."

        Microsoft does that on purpose when they see that a great software is doing something better than theirs.

    2. Steve the Cynic Silver badge

      Re: Stop breaking stuff

      high resolution ( 1920*1080, cough)

      I'm a teeny tiny bit torn about this juxtaposition. At home I have a pair of 4K screens, so my machine is running on a 7680x2160 desktop - thus, 1920x1080 is NOT high resolution.

      But I also remember my first PC, with a CGA-compatible graphics card that could do 640x200 in two colours or 320x200 in four.

      Or my first computer of any sort with pixel-addressable graphics, a TRS-80 Colour Computer, whose highest resolution was 256x192 in two colours.

      Thus, 1920x1080, regardless of colour depth(1), is monstrously high resolution.

      Hum. The march of Time does some odd things to our perceptions.

      (1) It's noteworthy that the CoCo's highest resolution mode, 256x192x2, consumed 6144 bytes of memory for the whole frame buffer, which is less than the 7680 consumed by just one row of pixels in a 1920x1080 24-bits-in-32 display.

      1. Khaptain Silver badge

        Re: Stop breaking stuff

        "1920x1080 is NOT high resolution."

        Hence the "cough" in the OP.. 1920*1080 is nothing more than a basic resolution today which just pissed me of because Intel isn't following suite with the updates.

        1. DropBear Silver badge

          Re: Stop breaking stuff

          "1920*1080 is nothing more than a basic resolution today"

          Clearly not so by the makers of every single operating system ever, anywhere: they all default to UI elements and fonts that are perfectly sized on a traditional 1024x768 or so, but require a typical 125-130% zoom by whatever means on the "basic" 1920x1080 - and HiDPI is useless because it only knows how to double pixels which is ludicrously untenable on FullHD; granted, that's not what HiDPI is for, but without it stuff is so tiny I have to glue the monitor to my face to make it usable (yes, I do wear glasses - funnily enough they seem to work just fine for everything else). I'll spare you the hilarity that ensues as soon as one tampers with either font sizes or discrete DPI settings (if any) under any OS - the UI is permanently on the verge of almost working / not clipping, but never really gets there...

      2. Martin an gof Silver badge

        Re: Stop breaking stuff

        (1) It's noteworthy that the CoCo's highest resolution mode, 256x192x2, consumed 6144 bytes of memory for the whole frame buffer, which is less than the 7680 consumed by just one row of pixels in a 1920x1080 24-bits-in-32 display.

        Or to put it another way, just one JPEG from my son's "bridge" camera, at around 7.5MB, would need six 1.44MB floppies to store it, or (for us ex-Acorn types) five 1.6MB floppies.

        Five! DIdn't Windows 3.1 come on three floppies (plus a couple for DOS)? My first proper desktop publisher fitted on a single 1.6MB floppy, with room left over for some fonts.

        </old fart>

        M.

        1. Updraft102 Silver badge

          Re: Stop breaking stuff

          DIdn't Windows 3.1 come on three floppies

          Four for 3.0 and seven for 3.1, I think.

          1. Danny 14 Silver badge

            Re: Stop breaking stuff

            most of our default screen res are 1366x768. thats about 300 i5 inspiron laptops.

            the desktops are 1280x1024 (19" 4:3 screens). ones with projectors extend desktops most of the time - people change to suit. I run a screen res script to default to extend and reset the res on reboot.

            1. dajames Silver badge

              Re: Stop breaking stuff

              the desktops are 1280x1024 (19" 4:3 screens).

              Methinks a little quick mental arithmetic will allow you to confirm that that is in fact 5:4 not 4:3.

              Was it really so long ago that this was THE standard desktop monitor resolution (but usually on 17" screens) that we have all forgotten?

              1. Martin an gof Silver badge

                Re: Stop breaking stuff

                1280x1024... Was it really so long ago that this was THE standard desktop monitor resolution

                Tell me about it. I have a whole bunch of 1280x1024 LCD monitors screwed into setwork and every time one fails it is a: difficult to find a replacement and b: almost impossible to find a replacement that fits easily into the same hole.

                I also have a whole load of 1024 x 768 and 1280 x 1024 projectors. While it is still possible to get the former - so long as you are happy with a mediocre-output "boardroom" projector, it is impossible to get the latter these days, so I'm in the ridiculous position of having to fit 1920 x 1200 projectors, usually with differently-specified lenses to the originals, and hoping that their "blacks" are good enough that no-one notices the two "black bars" either side of the 5:4 image in the middle.

                The museum was opened in 2005.

                </grump>

                M.

    3. NoneSuch
      Thumb Down

      Re: Stop breaking stuff

      "However, in the meantime, the rate at which Microsoft has been able to shovel code onto PCs remains undeniably impressive"

      <sarcasm> Yes, I love the XBox and Zune updates on my Enterprise licensed W10 Workstations. 2+ GB of space on every PC dedicated to absolute BS that has no purpose anywhere near a business. </sarcasm>

      1. MJI Silver badge

        Re: Stop breaking stuff

        >>XBox update

        What happens if you have a Playstation?

  3. EddieD

    Not offered it yet

    They're extremely reluctant to update (legally installed) enterprise versions on home machines - they normally come down about 2 months after everyone else gets theres.

    Not that I'm complaining - by the time I get it, it's normally been fixed from all the zero day bugs

  4. jarfil

    Use Linux...

    ...if you don't like Windows 10.

    Insisting on using Windows 7 is just silly.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Use Linux...

      If you have to run Windows then Windows 7 is by far the best solution.

      Not everyone can move to Linux at the drop of a hat. Most normal people would not have a clue about how to do it or how to safely transfer their data (pictures etc) to the new system.

      If you are so confident that 'just using Linux' is the solution then why not put a detailed guide of how to do it on the internet.

      I cut my teeth on some old and decidely cruddy BSD systems a few decades ago and moved to Linux when Slackware 1.1 came on the front cover of Computer Shopper.

      TBH, and I know that this will anger a lot here, moving to MacOS is a darn sight easier for most average users than going to Linux.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Use Linux...

        Most normal people would not have a clue

        Those types are probably content with Windows, or unaware of anything else. They've accepted that their computer will work against them, that's why they're flocking to phones that don't have "windows problems". Take the first post here for an example.

        Linux isn't designed for grandma.

        If someone who calls themselves a "technical person" and is unable to operate Linux, then they're lying about something.

        1. JDX Gold badge

          Re: Use Linux...

          For most users, if W10 didn't keep doing unscheduled updates I'm sure they'd love it. It has a more W7 style with some good bits of W8. People are wary of security slurping but if it doesn't stop them using the thing they'll be OK; an erratic power-crazed update system on the other hand is something even the most PC-ignorant user struggles with.

        2. DropBear Silver badge

          Re: Use Linux...

          "Linux isn't designed for grandma."

          You seem to have forgotten mentioning the two kinds of nagging issues that Linux comes bundled with free of charge: those that will merely eat up every single moment of your spare time from now on until you either give up or die if you attempt to fix them, and those that are for all practical purposes completely unfixable by you leaving you the option to give up or wait until you die, which _will_ happen before any of them would ever get fixed. Using Linux is a perpetual swim _against_ a current that is _much_ stronger than you, where the most you can hope for is not to drown immediately - and I say that as someone who hasn't given up trying to swim. Yet.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Use Linux...

            You seem to have forgotten mentioning the two kinds of nagging issues that Linux comes bundled with free of charge: those that will merely eat up every single moment of your spare time from now on until you either give up or die if you attempt to fix them

            Not my fault you can't use it right.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Not my fault you can't use it right.

              Wow! It's just like going on the internet asking for linux support....

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Not my fault you can't use it right.

                Wow! It's just like going on the internet asking for MSWindows support....

                There, fixed that for ya.

                1. werdsmith Silver badge

                  Re: Not my fault you can't use it right.

                  Love all this butt hurt when linux gets called out.

                  I'm an admirer of linux too, but I really have to be honest and admit it's far from a smooth ride.

                  Wow! It's just like going on the internet asking for MSWindows support....

                  This nicely sums up the situation. Like a 6 year old saying "I know you are".

                  I'd love linux to do better in the world but the supercilious Jeff Albertson attitude and the total delusion is seriously holding it back.

                  If the linux world was friendly and not so condescending.

                  Anyway, I'm trying to get this new piece of hardware to work with my linux, so I'm off to attempt another kernel compilation. See you in a few hours.

                  1. Updraft102 Silver badge

                    Re: Not my fault you can't use it right.

                    I'd love linux to do better in the world but the supercilious Jeff Albertson attitude and the total delusion is seriously holding it back.

                    Worst. Pop. Culture. Reference. Ever.

                    1. werdsmith Silver badge

                      Re: Not my fault you can't use it right.

                      @Updraft102 said:

                      Worst. Pop. Culture. Reference. Ever.

                      LOL, I thought that might sting a bit, but in your case it really really shows.

                      It's still true though, no matter how much you don't like to hear it.

                      1. Updraft102 Silver badge

                        Re: Not my fault you can't use it right.

                        LOL, I thought that might sting a bit, but in your case it really really shows.

                        It's still true though, no matter how much you don't like to hear it.

                        I have no idea what you're talking about. In my case?

                        1. sabroni Silver badge

                          Re: Not my fault you can't use it right.

                          Look, the thing I'm familiar with I find much easier to work with. That crap that you use is rubbish, everytime I try to use it I fuck up.

                  2. Esme

                    Re: Not my fault you can't use it right.

                    @werdsmith - see there's another thing - yer average user won't be trying to get a new piece of hardware working with anything.

                    If they're a Windows user, it'll likely have Windows drivers, and either it'll just work, or it'll have the kinds of Windows problems that I'm sure you all know and love.

                    If they're trying Linux for the first time, and Linux doesn't yet support their hardware, they'll find it doesnt work, and simply go back to using Windows.

                    What they generally won't do (because they're not daft) is try to struggle way out of their depth with technical stuff they don't understand. They'll either call in a friend they think might be able to help, or just shrug and go back to Windows and put up with Windows-style problems.

                    However, it's fairly rare, in my experience, for yer average user that's fed up with Windows and willing to give Linux a try to have bleeding-edge kit - which means that Linux probably supports their hardware fine. So they try it, find it easier (in the sense of less problematic) to use than Windows, and carry on using it happily.

                    (Shrugs) if you want to use brand new hardware that doesn't yet have Linux drivers, yes, you;re going to be better off using it with Windows. And this is a surprise because..?

                    1. Danny 14 Silver badge

                      Re: Not my fault you can't use it right.

                      the really REALLY annoying thing about MS is that they already offer decent versions of their OS. Remeber Vista and the shitness? Look at server 2008, server 2008 was awesome. It had a start menu, proper search, no telemetry. And its still supported now. 2008r2 (windows 7) just just 2008 with more goodies.

                      windows 8? Apart from the stupid way to reboot or search from rdp server 2012 just worked. It had a fully functional and working backup, desktop and control panel.

                      8.1 made 2012r2: gone was the silly rdp swipe to edges andnit booted to desktop. yey.

                      come windows 10, server 2016 is perfectly usable. Sure the start menu is a bit 'flat' but thats the only real gripe. It is similar to LTSB in a way.

                      The server iterations show what CAN be done with the OS. MS choose not to offer those "skins" though.

                    2. Loud Speaker Bronze badge

                      Re: Not my fault you can't use it right.

                      If they're trying Linux for the first time, and Linux doesn't yet support their hardware,

                      Then get them to email me their time machine. its not 1999 any more.

                      These days its far more likely Windows doesn't support their hardware.

                    3. DuncanLarge Bronze badge

                      Re: Not my fault you can't use it right.

                      @ Esme

                      I work in IT as a systems analyst and do a bit of 1st line/3rd line support as needed.

                      I can see you are not really recently experienced with the true state of hardware found INSIDE laptops these days.

                      After reinstalling windows via the method of the manufacturer (not necessarily talking about big guys like Dell etc) you find that half the hardware wont work because the stuff they put inside is non-standard enough for windows (8.1 and 10 are used) to not locate a driver automatically via windows update.

                      So, you go and try to use the vendors driver disc that has ancient and possibly buggy drivers that caused you to reinstall in the first place as recommended you do so by kind windowsy support peeps you found in the internet. This disc, hopefully you did not throw away. Hopefully the vendor provided you with the disc and you dont need to download it.

                      Hopefully the disc contains just the drivers you need, and not ones for other laptops that throw up errors when you try to install them causing you to talk to the same nice windowsy peeps who will tell you to either reinstall/refresh windows again or to open up device manager (good luck finding that) and googling the PCI hardware ID of the device to locate a device driver.

                      A device driver that is not provided from the original manufacturer because they are chinese and only make the chip, not the PCB and rely of the laptop vendor to provide drivers, which they may not do so without proof of purchase (pc specialist, I'm looking at you) which you dont have any more leaving you t wonder why you didnt just buy that ASUS machine, as they have a driver for the same PCI hardware ID but it wont install because you are not using an ASUS.

                      If hardware dont work in Linux, its so much simpler! Its either not going to work for a while or never will. None of this faffing about trying to get something working again only to discover that it having worked at all the first time round was simply a miracle.

                      Imagine if your TV remote stopped working due to dead batteries. You go and get batteries for it to find that it uses a non-standard size that nobody stocks but some guy from china on ebay can get you one for more than the cost of a universal remote that stakes standard AA's. So you get the universal remote to find that it wont work with your TV but only with the previous model as the codes changed.

                      You discover that the codes were added later and can be uploaded to your remote!

                      So you download the update, run it to be told that there is an error. You google the error to find you need to install .Net 3.5 whoch requires running DISM from the command line and having a valid windows install disc...

                      I think I've made my point about the state of windows driver support vs linux. It can be a load of shit no matter which OS you are using. Your point is moot.

                    4. Martin an gof Silver badge

                      Re: Not my fault you can't use it right.

                      (Shrugs) if you want to use brand new hardware that doesn't yet have Linux drivers, yes, you;re going to be better off using it with Windows. And this is a surprise because..?

                      Define "brand new" though.

                      AMD's recent graphics cards (and by "recent" I mean "two years since launch" - to be specific I have a Polaris 10 card) still don't have HDMI audio in most Linux distributions, because AMD only managed to get that included in kernel 4.13 and many distributions, including the very latest OpenSuse, released at the end of May this year, are still using older kernels.

                      For that reason my machine which has the Polaris card in it had to be migrated from the pretty rock solid "Leap" distributions of OpenSuse to the usually ok, but when it occasionally breaks it's a biggie, "Tumbleweed" distribution, which keeps fairly up-to-date with the kernels.

                      In theory I could have installed the proprietary AMDGPU-PRO, but I tried that and failed several times. In Windows? Download the driver and run it. Job done.

                      M.

                  3. DuncanLarge Bronze badge

                    Re: Not my fault you can't use it right.

                    "If the linux world was friendly and not so condescending."

                    Seriously, show me one that is.

                    Go on. Find one. And no, you cant suggest a customer support line with paid for employees.

                    I dare you. Find a windows support forum that does not have any condescending remarks or attitudes to newbies coming along and asking "what does this button do"?

                    Find me one that does not have a single person saying RTFM or how about the classic: "Use the search to find the post that was posted years ago! I wont repeat myself".

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