back to article Azure Dev Spaces has hit public preview, so El Reg took it for a spin

Azure Dev Spaces is one of those technologies that looks great in demonstrations, but can end up being infuriating when introduced to real life. Shown off at this year's Build conference and subsequently released in private preview, the toys were released to public preview this week, and The Register was keen to get its talons …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Great, another useless lock-in hipster tech that hides so much behind the scenes that you have snowballs chance in hell to fix things if you as much as look at it funny.

    What's wrong with old-fashioned:

    - Write code

    - Deploy code

    - Run code

  2. Herring`

    You decry "hipster tech" but clearly you are falling into modern development methods.

    You missed out "test code"

  3. Spoonsinger

    You missed out "test code"

    Pah!

    1) Write Code

    2) ????

    3) Profit

  4. Lusty Silver badge

    @AC

    @AC I must have missed the part of the article where they said Visual Studio no longer supports writing and compiling code!

    This doesn't hide things behind the scenes, it automates things for you. You still write and debug code, all it does is place some components in a Docker container for debugging and then strips them out when you set it to Release.

    It's really not scary at all, and having seen a demo at developerdeveloperdeveloper recently I'm surprised at the issues el Reg had, but as mentioned it's all preview so subject to troubles occasionally.

  5. Deltics
    Coat

    Pish and tosh. The truly modern way:

    Write Tests

    Write Code

    Run Tests

    Fix Code

    Run Tests

    Deploy Code

    Run Code

    Change Code

    Suppress Test Failures

    Run Code

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I nearly choked on my avocado toast.

  7. HPCJohn

    Docker for Windows - bit of a fail

    IF anyone from Microsoft reads this, you are not encouraging anyone to dabble in Docker with Windows. Not relvant to Dev Spaces of course.

    You will find that on downloading Docker for Windows it wil lnto run with Windows 10 Home edition. It needs the Professional Edition.

    That is not a great way to encourage anyone to try Docker out.

  8. iron Silver badge

    Re: Docker for Windows - bit of a fail

    Windows 10 Home edition is not designed for devs. You should be using Pro or Enterprise.

  9. stephanh Silver badge

    Re: Docker for Windows - bit of a fail

    "Windows 10 Home edition is not designed for devs."

    Source? Windows 10 Home is explicitly a supported OS for Visual Studio.

  10. teknopaul Bronze badge

    Re: Docker for Windows - bit of a fail

    Tell pro/enterprise === dev to Linus or KnR or RiscV peeps.

    What does the B in BSD stand for?

    This is exactly why Microsoft's recent claimed love for open source should be taken with tablespoon of salt.

  11. HPCJohn

    Re: Docker for Windows - bit of a fail

    Sorry, but I paid nigh on 2000 quid for a high end laptop, which I love. HP Spectre.

    I can boot it into Linux and do all the development work I want.

    I paid Micorosft for windows 10 Home, which I actually quite like. But I want to run some Docker containers? Oooh noo mate... shell out some more cash.

  12. stephanh Silver badge

    Re: Docker for Windows - bit of a fail

    You can use Docker Toolbox instead on Windows Home (uses VirtualBox instead of HyperV).

  13. HPCJohn

    Re: Docker for Windows - bit of a fail

    Thanks Stephan. I have been using Virtualbox for years and am a big fan.

    I will give it a spin.

    I see now what the problem is - Windows 10 Home will not allow the installation of HyperV. Ho hum.

  14. Lusty Silver badge

    Re: Docker for Windows - bit of a fail

    You paid £2k for a laptop and your LAPTOP VENDOR chose to put an innapropriate OS on which limits your use? How is that Microsoft's problem? My £1k Surface Laptop has Pro included so maybe you need to rethink your laptop vendor of choice next time.

  15. Spoonsinger

    ..."typing in BASIC listings from computer magazines in the '80s and debugging"...

    Now that there is a dying breed in IT. Ho hum.

  16. Gordon 10 Silver badge

    Re: ..."typing in BASIC listings from computer magazines in the '80s and debugging"...

    Yup. Today we just copy/pasta from SE.

  17. Camilla Smythe Silver badge

    Yup. Today we just copy/pasta from SE.

    I am sure there is an unintended linguine coding joke trying make an appearance here.

  18. Teiwaz Silver badge

    Re: ..."typing in BASIC listings from computer magazines in the '80s and debugging"...

    ..."typing in BASIC listings from computer magazines in the '80s and debugging"...

    Now that there is a dying breed in IT. Ho hum

    I'd be impressed if your could type in BASIC listings from Computer magazines in the '80's, today

    Is that your Delorean parked outside?

  19. hplasm Silver badge
    Boffin

    Re: ..."typing in BASIC listings from computer magazines in the '80s and debugging"...

    "Is that your Delorean parked outside?"

    Not at this present moment, no...

  20. JLV Silver badge

    >For developers used to a visual way of debugging and happy in the world of Visual Studio

    any indication that the tech stack involved could ever support an editor+command line approach, or is this resolutely for IDEs only?

    what’s worrying with all this behind-the-covers wizard approach is that, depending on the quality of the generated stuff you may very well have something that works on 80% of contexts but just doesn’t support the odd 20%. if you spend a lot of time succeeding before hitting the wall and if the system doesn’t allow for manual code in its 20% blind spot, you’re hosed.

  21. JLV Silver badge

    additionally, whatever’s generated is useless if it can’t be maintained manually if needed, resonably structured and styled w meaningful naming and storable in source control and diff-able. 2 way: wizard <=> manual trips are nice to have.

    from viewing long-past MS abortions in VS db-layer wizard outputs and 05 SSIS un-editable 1 line “XML” files, my expectations are, perhaps unwarrantedly, rather low.

    call me a doubting Thomas, and not just because it's alpha-ware, but rather because I sense the potential for it never being more than demo-ware. reviewers need to look at the generated artifacts, not just the observable behavior.

  22. Teiwaz Silver badge

    works on 80% of contexts but just doesn’t support the odd 20%.

    My concern the last time I had to use ISPF.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What was wrong with Docker / ANT for doing this sort of thing? At least you have control of what it is doing.

  24. ShelLuser
    Windows

    Still the same strategy then?

    "Azure Dev Spaces is one of those technologies that looks great in demonstrations, but can end up being infuriating when introduced to real life."

    With all due respect for Microsoft (seriously) I can't help but comment that a lot of their software and services have been following this strategy as you describe it here. And I think it's said that Microsoft still doesn't seem to learn or acknowledge those simple facts.

    For example? Simple: PowerShell (vaguely related). At one time they had this awesome idea: force every PowerShell user into using a localized documentation system which would provide people with help in their own language. Sounds great in theory, but what if you don't want localized help and would rather stick with the default English versions? Or what if the help in your native language isn't available? Well: then you're out of luck (but you can "fix" it with a bit of hacking).

    Microsoft still needs to pay much more attention to the things which the customers need and want I think.

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