back to article Unbreakable smart lock devastated to discover screwdrivers exist

It's never easy to crack into a market with an innovative new product but makers of the "world's first smart fingerprint padlock" have made one critical error: they forgot about the existence of screwdrivers. Tapplock raised $320,000 in 2016 for their product that would allow you to use just your finger to open the " …

  1. elDog Silver badge

    Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    This seems like the stoopid ADT signs that people used to put in their front lawns to make the miscreants believe that there was any security at all.

    Or the US TSA.

    Now, me: I have two very hungry attack dogs (60 and 100#) as well as a bunch of cats that will trip you up. So be careful!

  2. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    Hungry attack dogs?

    PETA will be on the case.

  3. jake Silver badge

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    WTF is an "attack dog"?

  4. Rich 11 Silver badge

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    WTF is an "attack dog"?

    It's a dog that has been trained to attack people.

    Anything else I can help you with today?

  5. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    WTF is an "attack dog"?

    Real one? Caucasian Shepherd or to a lesser extent a Bulgarian Karakachan. They are originally bred dual purpose - primary as a sheep dog, secondary to defend households including against armed raiders. Anyone who is not identified as a member of the "family" is automatically identified as a target and it literally goes for the kill. There is no messing about, warnings, etc. A pair (male and female) of these is as effective as two 24x7x365 guards armed with submachine guns.

    They are considered to be the "most effective perimeter defense" in places where the law is err... a b it .. flexible. I would not use them in a developed country as nobody will give me an insurance for their use as a guard team.

    So if the GP is claiming he has an attack dog and it is not one of these, he has an attack toy. Not an attack dog.

  6. Dave Bell

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    Our dog was a failed lurcher, and one of those rescue animals. She knew to lead visitors to where we were about the farmyard. It was one of those awkward incidents, a local with severe mental disability, who was going around trying locks.

    He got a nasty suck.

    It was enough.

    Security has to match the need.

  7. BebopWeBop Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    two 24x7x365

    how do these differ from 24x7 mutts?

  8. Blank Reg Silver badge

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    Yes a Caucasian Sheppard will easily take care of any would-be intruders. But I like the neopolitan mastiff as they have some interesting traits. They tend not to bark much and are naturally protective. So if they hear an intruder they don't usually go crazy barking at them, they will just quietly go search them out. Once they find them then the growling starts, by then it's too late to get away, the intruder is dinner.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    "as effective as two 24x7x365 guards "

    ..... pfft ....... you don't even need the screwdriver: just wait till February 29th.

  10. onefang

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    An attack dog is like an attack helicopter, it's armed to the teeth with machine guns and rocket launchers.

  11. onefang

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    "how do these differ from 24x7 mutts?"

    They last longer.

  12. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    "PETA will be on the case."

    That's OK, the dogs will eat them.

  13. werdsmith Silver badge

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    Yes a Caucasian Sheppard will easily take care of any would-be intruders.

    Crap. It's irresponsible and cruel to expect a dog to defend your property. Semi competent burglars deal with them quite easily and it's usually a sad outcome for the poor animal. Several so-called trained guard dogs round our way have ended up either blinded or dead. When I was a kid my neighour's dog was dealt with using a can of oven spray oven cleaner from the garden shed, the burglars opens the door just enough and then sprayed the poor german shepherd in the face.

  14. yoganmahew

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    "WTF is an "attack dog"?"

    It's one that's been fed 100 hash and has lost the plot.

  15. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
    Joke

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    two 24x7x365

    Does a Microsoft salesperson getting a non-indiegogo punter to move over to Office 365 make them a "common-criminal"

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    So you are saying all your precious valuables are in your home? Not the backyard shed or a storage unit? And all I need is a couple good ribeye steaks? Good to know. Thanks for the advice.

    PS - I also speak "cat".

  17. Frenchie Lad

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    I'll settle for a Karelian Bear Dog. They also make good pets.

  18. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    An attack dog is like an attack helicopter, it's armed to the teeth with machine guns and rocket launchers.

    No frikkin' lasers?

  19. onefang

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    "No frikkin' lasers?"

    I think you have attack dogs confused with attack goldfish, frikkin' lasers are an aquatic animal weapon. Laser guided weapons might be an option, but that might get the attack cats involved, things could get messy.

  20. JulieM Bronze badge

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    They work for nearly seven years at a time. (The mean year is 365.2425 days.)

    As opposed to 24x7x52 attack dogs, which work for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Avoid Internet of Things devices

    Avoid devices that are connected to the cloud aka Internet. Typically insanely insecure and full of surveillance tech (mic, cam, fingerprint).

    Build something useful yourself, with Arduino or Raspherry Pi. Keep your old trusted "dumb" analog devices that will outlast generations.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    He got a nasty suck.

    You should've used the Paris icon. That's what it's there for.

  23. jgarbo

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    The attack dogs eat PETA people, too.

  24. keith_w

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    "two 24x7x365

    how do these differ from 24x7 mutts? "

    They take leap-days off.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    two 24x7x365 - how do these differ from 24x7 mutts?

    They can guard Azure Cloud and still take a couple of days off.

  26. McKrack

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    Well, you can get a Yugoslavian shepherd dog to that list. A pair Šarplninac dogs is about as much security as you need.

  27. MyOtherHead

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    Reminds me of the "Jesus is watching" joke.

  28. hplasm Silver badge
    Meh

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    "PETA will be on the case."

    And kill them.

  29. rmason Silver badge

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    We have a Cane Corso (Italian mastiff), I think someone trying to get in via my windows etc would make for amusing viewing.

    She's a soppy family pet, but she sounds mean.

  30. cosmogoblin

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    When I first played Deus Ex, I found a helicopter that, when targeted, showed the help-text "Attack Helicopter".

    I unloaded several clips into it before I realised it was a noun, not an instruction..

  31. mr-slappy
    Headmaster

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    "A pair (male and female) of these is as effective as two 24x7x365 guards armed with submachine guns"

    Assuming your units are hours, 24 x 7 x 365 is 7 years. Do they get itchy after that time?

  32. Rastor728
    Megaphone

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    WTF is an "attack dog"?

    .....is this like an assault weapon?

  33. This post has been deleted by its author

  34. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    A pair (male and female) of these is as effective as two 24x7x365 guards armed with submachine guns.

    Really? What if the attacker is, oh, let's say, in a car?

    Mind you, I'm not advocating for attack dogs or attack humans. But I think your threat model is a little simplistic if it finds those two mitigations equivalent.

    (There are, of course, attack classes in which the dogs are more effective. They're less susceptible to threats against family members, for example.)

  35. Captain Obvious
    Thumb Up

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    Funny - my English Shepherd does the same thing - if you are NOT a member of the family, you are literally dog food. Was bred for dual purpose - as a herding dog and as a protect dog.

  36. bpfh

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    AETP rather than PETA - Animals Eating Tasty People...

  37. MudFever

    Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    or even the 24h mutts?

  38. jockmcthingiemibobb

    Re: Avoid Internet of Things devices

    or just impliment a decent firewall on your router

  39. Reginald Onway

    Oh my!

    And it only costs $100.

    I must say this was the most devastating take down of any IoT device I have ever read. Maybe most damaging report on any device.

    Well done!

  40. Chozo
    Facepalm

    Re: Oh my!

    If you liked that you'll love this.

    How to defeat high security locks with a paperclip and other fun tricks.

    DEFCON 19 Insecurity: An Analysis Of Current Commercial And Government Security Lock Designs

  41. Pete 2 Silver badge

    Re: Oh my!

    True, it seems pretty crap as far as hardware goes.

    But compared with software or operating systems that are supposed to be secure, it would count as invincible.

    Seriously, given how many design and implementation flaws there are in most apps, most code and most versions of Windows and Linux, a lock of comparable quality to them would be made out of chocolate with the password written on the outside of the box it came in.

  42. macjules Silver badge

    Re: Oh my!

    Haha! Tapplock have now ‘adjusted’ their website to include:

    “Share smartphone access remotely with unlimited users. Set permanent access or limited access with flexible dates and times, and feel free to revoke access whenever you want. Track and monitor access history with time and location from the Tapplock app.”

    Stable door ... bolting horse...

  43. Chris G Silver badge

    Re: Oh my!

    For most padlocks a couple of cans of plumber's pipe freezer and a hammer will shatter them, including the super hard security locks.

    For the more upmarket thief about town a cordless angle grinder makes a good pass key although it's a little noisy.

  44. Pen-y-gors Silver badge

    Re: Oh my!

    This is obviously a serious cock-up, but, to be fair, no padlock is invincible, and that applies for most (all?) security systems. They are just ways of reducing the temptation of an open door with something valuable behind it. The more effective the lock, the less likely some opportunist passing-by bit of shit will have a go at it. If a garden shed needs a noisy angle-grinder to open it will probably be effective. The same lock will not be so good in a remote location on a shed full of gold bullion.

    If the contents are valuable enough, it can be opened!

  45. MiguelC Silver badge

    Re: Oh my!

    Only $100 and having the same security as $1 Chinese locks.

    Is it 100x better, then? ;)

  46. Jellied Eel Silver badge

    Re: Oh my!

    Mastlerlock will buy them. Now only $129.95! But any lock that can be opened faster than a Maglock in Shadowrun is not secure. However on a positive note, thieves that don't just use a die grinder will be be able to flog 2nd hand ones on Ebay.

  47. GIRZiM
    Coat

    Re: Stable door ... bolting horse...

    That there is a perfect example of the very issue you are attempting to illustrate - people not thinking about things properly.

    It's "Bolting horse... stable door ..."

    If you do it your way then all you end up with is "Stable door" - which is no good to anyone wanting to illustrate your point, is it?

  48. GIRZiM

    Re: the temptation of an open door with something valuable behind it

    Ah, but that's just what you'd like us all to think, isn't it?

    I bet you're one of those people who puts a really expensive looking lock on a garden shed full of horse-manure, situated miles away in the middle of Dartmoor, to encourage thieves to waste their time breaking into it because there must be something valuable behind such an expensive lock.

    Well, I'm wise to your reverse psychology tricks and not fooled for a second - I'm gonna break into your coal cellar with the crappy lock on it where you keep all your valuables

  49. onefang

    Re: the temptation of an open door with something valuable behind it

    That's why I hid my valuables deep inside that horse-manure.

  50. Jellied Eel Silver badge

    Re: Stable door ... bolting horse...

    I think security depends a lot on whether you believe in a Stainless theory of economics, or not. An LSE graduate may buy this lock, a graduate from the James diGriz Academy would sell it to them. If you sell horses, you'd perhaps also want to sell inferior doors. If you sell the perfect door, you may only sell one per customer. It's a delicate balancing act to keep the wheels of commerce greased.

    (also curious if you could open this lock by performing a gentle interrogation of it's IC using a blowtorch. Tried and tested method for getting something to give up it's secrets, and in this case, battery expansion may cause the back to pop off.)

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