back to article No fandango for you: EU boots UK off Galileo satellite project

It's official: the UK is going to be booted off the Galileo satellite GPS program as a result of Brexit, despite furious protestations from Britain that it's a special case. The decision was reached by all 27 member states of Europe at a meeting on Tuesday and was confirmed in a slide deck [PDF] released on Wednesday. Just …

  1. Christoph Silver badge

    That's terrible - we've insisted that we leave the EU and get rid of it completely, and now they're not letting us say "Ah, except these bits here that we want to keep".

    Anyone would think that they're negotiating on their own behalf instead of trying to give the UK whatever it wants in the best possible deal even at great cost to themselves. How dare they - bloody foreigners!

  2. Frumious Bandersnatch Silver badge

    > That's terrible

    Yes, you could even say it's grim

  3. anothercynic Silver badge

    Ja, Christoph...

    ... This is what one calls in the English parlance to "want to have the cake and eat it too".

    But that's *not* how the Brexit game is played...

  4. david 12 Bronze badge

    > we've insisted that we leave the EU and get rid of it completely, <

    I must have missed that bit.

    Or no, I get it now, you're talking about the bit where the remainers were saying "if you want to leave the EU, I'm going to pretend that you want to get rid of it completely" and "if you wnat to leave the EU, it's because you don't like foreigners"

  5. john.jones.name
    WTF?

    clearly no one with knowledge of the system...

    so its clear that no one with any knowledge of the system made that decision as its completely pointless

    americans have access to high precision corrections in fact anyone with a well surveyed site like the current command and control sites and knowledge/equipment of timing should be enough...

    So if the UK military have any intelligence they will get in there and keep those sites and personnel going and simply feed the corrections back to any equipment needed.

    the U.K. civil service did a number on the europeans and they didnt even realise, one less outgoing and they get to ask for a refund...

    the loss will be to the Galileo project which I am actually sad about but thats what happens if you let bureaucrats rather than engineers and scientists run the show...

  6. Dan 55 Silver badge

    if you want to leave the EU, I'm going to pretend that you want to get rid of it completely

    No, that's a fact.

    If the UK leaves the EU, but in addition to that says it is not going to be a part of the SM, the CU, the ECJ, and the ECHR (red lines), the consequences are that the UK becomes a third country. This means it gets practically nothing from the EU.

    There is a legal framework to be inside and out out of things. There is no legal framework to be outside and opt into things.

  7. Tom 7 Silver badge

    Re: Ja, Christoph...

    The way the brexit game is played has to be kept secret. This is just one of the ways it isn't played.

  8. Andy 73

    Politics..

    @david 12 - You're on a loosing battle here, the Remain representation in the Forums is quite loud.

    It's unfortunate that some people want to define Brexit as 'cutting all ties with the EU', and treat A50 like a declaration of war. Despite absolving themselves of any responsibility, they're setting the tone as much as any others. As it is, we're changing the terms under which we trade, share, work and play with the member nations of Europe. Apart from a few extremists, you'd be hard to find anyone who wants to 'pull up the drawbridge'. I've heard more from the Guardian about 'not welcoming foreigners' than I have from the Daily Mail lately.

    But hey, apparently the world is completely black and white, and it's all the fault of those evil Brexiters. No collective responsibility at all.

  9. John H Woods Silver badge

    Re: Politics..

    Andy, it is the current crop of Brexiteers that drew the red lines. It isn't the fault of Remainers that these have been drawn in the places they have been.

  10. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

    Re: Ja, Christoph...

    ... This is what one calls in the English parlance to "want to have the cake and eat it too".

    sounds more like "want to make the cake and eat it too"

    Personally if they want to do all the work and put all the money in , and are still going to let us use it , GREAT!

  11. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

    There is a legal framework to be inside and out out of things. There is no legal framework to be outside and opt into things.

    By that rationale no country can do business or research or any other project unless both countries are inside the EU .Many countries in the world are not in the EU .

    We arnt out of this galileo thing because we are leaving the EU , we are out of it because of a bunch of bureaucratic tit for tatting and point scoring

  12. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

    Re: Politics..

    It's unfortunate that some people want to define Brexit as 'cutting all ties with the EU', and treat A50 like a declaration of war.

    Yes remainers will take the line that Leaving the EU will mean that no immigrants will be allowed in and no goods will be allowed in or out . a kind of strawman misinterpretation / exageration.

    Leavers will take the line that we will decide whats allowed in or out .

  13. Bogle

    Re: Ja, Christoph...

    Personally if they want to do all the work and put all the money in , and are still going to let us use it , GREAT!

    Umm, you might want to re-read the article ...

  14. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

    Re: Politics..

    Andy, it is the current crop of Brexiteers that drew the red lines. It isn't the fault of Remainers that these have been drawn in the places they have been.

    No ones drawn any lines yet , except the EU that has drawn this line around their gps project.

    Our government is still arguing with itself about where it wants the lines

  15. ATG

    @david 12

    No, that’s Nigel Farage and Rees-Moggs you’ve got to thank for that. Brexit means leaving everything according to them, anything else is a betrayal of the will of the people etc.

  16. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

    Re: Ja, Christoph...

    @Bogle

    "The UK will still be allowed to use the system and can act as an observer but it will be frozen out of future developments and contracts."

  17. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

    Re: @david 12

    No Brexit means leaving everthing according to the Remainers in order to convince us that its suicide

  18. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

    Wait a minute ! How do we manage to have a "special relationship" with the USA when they arnt in the EU?

    How did we buy those fighter planes?

    How come I come i can buy a chevy in the UK?

    How come they can buy a Toyota in Africa when neither Egypt nor Japan are in the EU?

  19. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

    well screw the EU! Im going to build my own GPS array!

    With Blackjack!

    and hookers!

    in fact forget the gps...

    and the blackjack ....

    ahhh, screw the whole thing

  20. Chronos Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    "The Excelsior line!... and that compass in the top will come in handy..."

    So off we trot, through the petrified, flaming beaver infested forest with no sense of direction, skint, terrified and lonely with only the clothes on our backs and a walking stick. The metaphor is striking, which is what I suspect you intended and all the pointy-button smashers missed.

  21. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge
    Flame

    Politics pc red tape bureaucracy and bickering

    UK joined the EU in 1973

    In the decade PRIOR to that the UK and France joined forces to build the worlds first supersonic airliner.

    'nuff said. I rest my case.

  22. Dr. Mouse Silver badge

    Re: Politics..

    @Prst. V.Jeltz

    Leavers will take the line that we will decide whats allowed in or out

    While ignoring the fact that the EU (and it's remaining members) will also decide what's allowed in or out of their domain, considering their own best interests.

    Yes, outside the EU the UK will have full autonomy to decide it's own policies, but so does everyone else. We can't demand that the EU (or anyone else) give us what we want, we must negotiate. If they decide, for whatever reason, that they don't want to do something, they are under no obligation to. This is the part most Leavers seem to miss, and start yelling about how unfair the EU are being when they tell us that they aren't going to agree to the latest demands from HMG.

  23. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

    Re: Politics pc red tape bureaucracy and bickering

    oh , and the Americans went to the moon! and they wernt in the EU

  24. Lars Silver badge
    Happy

    Re: Ja, Christoph...

    "sounds more like "want to make the cake and eat it too"

    I would rather refer to the "cherry picking". It's also still in response to May's read lines.

    Some times I wonder if British MPs have taken "Yes Minister" too seriously and think that showing some courage is off the table for them.

    As for the billion, that will be recovered by the EU when Britain finally kicks out that awful Euro clearing malarkey.

  25. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

    Re: Politics..

    " We can't demand that the EU (or anyone else) give us what we want, we must negotiate"

    Thats true for all countries in the world. We cant demand that the USA let us sell our <insert product still made in uk> over their.

    The USA cant demand that EU lets them sell their chevys over there, but its mutually beneficial to , even without the EU

    We cant demand that interpol share its terrorist data with us - or that they listen when we try to share our intelligence with them , but , and I can scarcely believe this , Its been threatened by some parties that Police and other security agencies will not be able to work together when we leave the EU. With that kind of batshit craziness going on with no ryhme or reason , perhaps it is a bad move to leave. cos politicos be crazy.

    How on earth did "The Allies" (clue in the name) co-operate and win WW2 without an economic arrangement about the price of vegatables in place?

  26. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge
    Coat

    "Many people thought that joining the EU was a bad move , and that we should never have come down from the trees in the first place"

  27. Chronos Silver badge

    Re: Politics..

    No ones drawn any lines yet , except the EU that has drawn this line around their gps project.

    Our government is still arguing with itself about where it wants the lines

    They're still arguing about what colour the lines should be, what shape and how broad. Some want dotted lines, others want solid and some want no lines at all. They haven't noticed the 27 other Sharpies of varying colours that have been busily drawing € shaped lines on most things already.

    What, did you think the EU was going to wait for us to sort our shit out after the dummy-spitting tantrum? Are we that egocentric to think 27 other countries are going to just stand still for two years? Like any parent, they're just going to cover all the sharp edges with padding and close the door until the nerve-jangling noise stops so they can at least hear themselves think long enough to find the Hedex.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Politics pc red tape bureaucracy and bickering

    The UK was a founder member of EFTA in 1960. EFTA had a trading agreement with the EEC. FYI.

    Leaving the EU takes Britain back to 1959.

    On Concorde. The single market, a British idea, was created in 1987. Prior to that many co-operative deals were done bilaterally. The single market made that unnecessary becuase we all agreed standards.

    Incidentally on Concorde the UK insisted on using feet and inches whereas France used metric. This meant every measurement was converted.

  29. Dan 55 Silver badge

    We arnt out of this galileo thing because we are leaving the EU , we are out of it because of a bunch of bureaucratic tit for tatting and point scoring

    We are out of Galileo because it's an EU-funded project carried out by the ESA and the rules that the UK helped draw up state that the work only goes to EU countries and the PRS can only be used by EU countries.

  30. soulrideruk Bronze badge

    Re: Politics..

    Well, when people were discussing what we could still have, I believe it was Brexiteers that came up with 'Brexit means Brexit'.

    All the EU is doing is making sure 'Brexit means Brexit', so yes this complete and utter withdrawal is exactly what the Brexit camp demanded, and any negative emotions you have about this current episode are the fault of the Brexit vote.

  31. remainer_01

    Re: Politics..

    > No ones drawn any lines yet

    that is factually incorrect. The UK politicos can't stop talking about their red lines.

  32. Roland6 Silver badge

    Re: @david 12

    @Prst. V.Jeltz re: "No Brexit means leaving everthing according to the Remainers in order to convince us that its suicide"

    So are you suggesting that Nigel Farage, Rees-Mogg, David Davis etc. are closet Remainers? Or are you referring to the reputedly closet remainer who said "Brexit means Brexit"?

  33. NerryTutkins

    Re: Politics..

    Perhaps. But if you choose to leave an organization, you don't get to expect to choose which perks of membership you get to keep.

    Britain has gone from being an EU member and then constantly wanting to opt out of obligations, to leaving the EU and then constantly expecting to be able to opt back in to benefits. How come when it comes to immigration or ECJ jurisdiction "brexit means brexit" but when it comes to trade, gallileo, standards bodies and so on, suddenly brexit doesn't mean brexit, and we insist we should still be sat at the table?

    The UK seems to suggest it will continue to follow the rules of the single market and so on in order to have frictionless trade, while at the same time insisting it won't be bound by the ECJ. That's as absurd as Manchester United insisting it is leaving the premiership, but will continue to carry on playing in the league against the other teams, and will continue to follow the rules, but won't accept the jurisdiction of the referee. I mean, we'd all be happy to trust Mourinho's judgement on whether one of his guys committed handball, right? It's completely ridiculous. If you join the WTO, you have to accept their jurisdiction over disputes. But you don't have to accept ECJ jurisdiction over the single market? You're going to police yourselves? Pffft.

  34. Stevie Silver badge

    Re: How on earth did "The Allies" (clue in the name) co-operate

    Well, it didn't hurt that quite a large number of them were under the Nazi jackboot at the time, reducing the number of voices at the table.

    Brexit is madness from where I'm sitting (in the middle of another mess of rampant isolationism and smashing the clocks to see how they work). Something has turned the western world self-destructively insane.

    I'm seriously concerned we are in the opening movement of a symphony called "World War".

  35. Bogle

    Re: Ja, Christoph...

    @Prst. V.Jeltz

    "What the UK government will be most upset about is that the fact it will be no longer be allowed access to the highly secure military-grade signal Public Regulated Service (PRS)"

    As I pointed out before, RTFM (Read the Frickin' Material) before you selectively quote, fool.

  36. strum Silver badge

    >We arnt out of this galileo thing because we are leaving the EU , we are out of it because of a bunch of bureaucratic tit for tatting and point scoring

    No. We're out of Galileo because the whole point of Galileo was to have its full facilities for members - with no dependence on outsiders. We have chosen to be outsiders.

  37. strum Silver badge

    Re: Politics..

    >Leavers will take the line that we will decide whats allowed in or out .

    No you won't. Borders have two sides.

  38. strum Silver badge

    Re: Politics pc red tape bureaucracy and bickering

    >I rest my case.

    It needs a rest - it's tired as fuck.

    UK & France built Concorde under agreement. UK has quit the agreement that founded Galileo.

  39. low_resolution_foxxes

    Re: Politics..

    To be fair, the irony is that Paul Dacre (part-time psychopath extraordinaire and editor of the Daily Mail), has recently been kicked out and replaced with a Remainer.

    My father in law (sadly) reads the Mail, he was confused where all the patriotic anti-foreigner articles had gone.

  40. low_resolution_foxxes

    Re: @david 12

    Rees Mogg is one of the biggest jokes I have seen in a number of years.

    Fred Flintstone is more up to date with 21st century society.

  41. Rob D. Bronze badge
    Coat

    Re: Politics..

    > They're still arguing about what colour the lines should be, what shape and how broad.

    It's overdue but still a classic:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Politics pc red tape bureaucracy and bickering

    It was not the EU in 1973. The expansion and moves to federal statehood since then are why most people who voted to leave, did so, not because of some slogan on the side of a bus or scare stories about immigration.

  43. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Politics pc red tape bureaucracy and bickering

    It was not the EU in 1973...

    Shhh! You're spoiling the narrative.

  44. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    oh , and the Americans went to the moon! and they wernt in the EU

    Yes.

    They spent $25.4Bn (in 1973 dollars) to send 12 Civil servants on a flags-and-footprints expedition that was dead by the end of 1972, left no lasting infrastructure in space except a few sensors on the Moon, and which could have all been landed by modified versions of the Surveyor craft.

    Concorde is estimated to have cost £1.5-2.1Bn in 1976 pounds, carried millions of passengers, flew for 27 years with a perfect safety record and carried about 2.5 million passengers doing so, without anyone wearing a pressure suit to do so (till Air France tried to take off a grossly over weight aircraft and ended up frying 86 German Burghers).

    It will b hard to top Concorde. It won't be hard to top Apollo, if it's done sensibly.

  45. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    Rees Mogg is one of the biggest jokes I have seen in a number of years.

    You think he's funny now?

    Wait till you see him in government (only you won't. as I expect all devices will be banned as "The Devil's Work (TM)" and if you want to read about it you'll have to learn Latin ("the only language for intelligent intercourse amongst men" as I imagine he would put it).

  46. Vimes

    The mistake here perhaps is to see this as a negotiation to start with from the Europeans point of view when from their side of things it's probably more of an implementation of the rules they already have (rules that in many cases we had a strong hand in formulating - so it's a bit of a mystery why the government didn't see this one coming from the very start).

    As Theresa May was so fond of saying until it started being flung back in her direction: Brexit means Brexit. There are consequences to leaving and this is one of them. Pretending this issue can simply be negotiated out of existence is just as likely as finding a solution to the Northern Ireland issue that doesn't involve either a hard border or non-existent technology.

    Of course the caption 'Lose access to navigation services, your financial industry, automotive industry, aviation industry and fishing industry too amongst others. Oh, and by the way you might want to say goodbye to your loved ones dying of cancer now as they won't be around much longer when the medicine runs out' wouldn't fit onto the side of a bus quite so easily.

  47. kyndair
    Facepalm

    In this case it is the rule we insisted be put in (that no-one outside the EU can have the PRS or bid for contracts) that is now coming back to cost us even more billions, but the brexiters still carry on saying it's all the EU's fault or the remainers fault or whoever else they can blame for kneecapping the UK.

  48. wolfetone Silver badge

    It might of squeezed on to the side of a bendy bus though?

  49. Claverhouse

    so it's a bit of a mystery

    @vimes

    so it's a bit of a mystery why the government didn't see this one coming from the very start

    Have you even seen photographs of the current cabinet ?

  50. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Of course the caption 'Lose access to navigation services, your financial industry, automotive industry, aviation industry and fishing industry too amongst others. Oh, and by the way you might want to say goodbye to your loved ones dying of cancer now as they won't be around much longer when the medicine runs out'

    What a load of shite. We'll still have access to navigation services don't you worry.

    Financial industry will be fine as nobody is interested in dealing with the 9-5 continentals who couldn't work an extra hour if they tried. Will the big banks move to Paris? Pfft! The French will strike at the drop of a hat, no chance.

    Automotive industry? That'll be fine, are they going to start a trade war? You might want to take note of how many EU vehicles we import.

    Aviation industry? BAe are global not local and their local work is often tied to military contracts. Any moves by Airbus to remove all contracts from UK factories might make it difficult for them to sell aircraft over someone like Boeing - they ain't the only game in town.

    Fishing industry? Do me a favour, it's always been the EU countries fishing our waters.

    As for the comments about cancer medicines, fuck me dead you really are desperate.

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