back to article I see a satellite of a man ... Galileo, Galileo, Galileo, Galileo, that's now 4 sats fit to go

Unperturbed by posturing in the UK and EU, the European Space Agency has welcomed the latest pair of Galileo satellites to its spaceport in Kourou, French Guyana, ahead of a July launch. Galileo is Europe's global satellite navigation system. Satellites 25 and 26 will join their siblings, the imaginatively named 23 and 24, …

Joke

Receiving the signal

Will I need a new phone/sat nav to use this new system or will it be easier to just move abroad now?

8
4
Silver badge

Re: Receiving the signal

I believe for consumer purposes, you won't notice any difference if the UK is involved or not. Like you can already pick up GLONASS and everything else if your phone supports it, the core product for the public is out there and usable.

However, you need a phone that supports GLONASS, they aren't (I believe) transmitting a plain GPS (as in the US GPS system) signal, they transmit their own.

The next-gen of phones will likely all support GPS, GLONASS and Galileo. Whether it will make your satnavving any more accurate is questionable, really. It's supposed to but I doubt you'll see much practical difference.

The real problem is that we'll have to pay through the nose to use the interesting stuff (commercial, military, etc. for everything from planes to cruise ship).

3
0

Re: Receiving the signal

Navstar s the name of the American system, not GPS. GLONASS, Navstar and Galileo are all types of GPS.

4
3
Silver badge

AIUI

Navstar is the name of the American satellite system that provides the GPS service. The user facing service has always been referred to as "GPS" (or possibly "Navstar GPS" if you want to be very formal). It would be indeed be a good idea if people started referring to it as Navstar, but good luck in getting Americans to do that.

5
1
Silver badge

Re: Receiving the signal

If we're going to get picky on naming then the generic term is GNSS.

There's also the Chinese one as well of course.

It'd be pretty unlikely that all of them would be disabled simultaneously, and if jammed the encrypted signal would be jammed too, so it's really not that big a deal.

2
0
Silver badge

Re: Receiving the signal

"Navstar s the name of the American system, not GPS. GLONASS, Navstar and Galileo are all types of GPS."

That's exactly backwards. The American system is explicitly called the Global Positioning System; Navstar was an old name that is no longer used. GPS, GLONASS, Galileo and others are all satellite navigation systems (GNSS is the usual abbreviation for "Global Navigation Satellite System"); only one of them is called GPS.

As for the question about whether you need a new phone, it probably depends on how old your phone is. Galileo and newer GPS satellites are designed to be easily compatible so at least in the future most devices will support both by default. For now, all the separate systems require a separate receiver, so you need to check which ones they can actually use. GLONASS support is fairly common in addition to GPS, and Galileo isn't too unusual, so it's quite possible a current phone will work them all. Beidou and NAVIC are currently only regional, so you're unlikely to find support for them in phones not sold in the relevant regions.

7
0

Re: Receiving the signal

"For now, all the separate systems require a separate receiver, so you need to check which ones they can actually use. GLONASS support is fairly common in addition to GPS, and Galileo isn't too unusual, so it's quite possible a current phone will work them all. Beidou and NAVIC are currently only regional, so you're unlikely to find support for them in phones not sold in the relevant regions."

Actually, if you look at the specifications for the available smartphones, most of the new ones have support for A-GPS, GLONASS and often BDS (see phonearena or gsmarena for specs on many phones). A few phones can receive Galileo, but it seems to be fairly uncommon.

I have some hopes that Galileo may be added to that list, but currently chipsets and integrated tri-band antennas for the three bands used by the A-GPS, GLONASS and BDS GNSS systems are widely available.

Given that there are a billion or more people in China buying smartphones, and most of the phones are built there, I expect that those three will remain the 'standard' set. It is possible that the Chinese government may even quietly encourage all phone manufacturers to include BDS.

BeiDou-3 currently has 9 satellites up, with 35 planned by 2020, giving global coverage. India's NAVIC and the Japanese QZSS are regional and likely will be ignored by most chipsets and most phones sold outside those regions.

If Galileo has sufficient advantages or can be added at insignificant cost it will likely become the fourth 'customary' GNSS in most devices.

A hypothetical British GNSS would probably come in after the other minor systems, given relative populations and sizes of economy... in other words, unless it can be handled by a receiver designed for one of the three or maybe four major systems, it will be a regional specialty item in phones and GNSS receivers.

0
0

Re: Receiving the signal

We already have Galileo support in newer phones - such as the OnePlus 5T. It depends on the underlying chipset. Almost all phones would support it later this year I hope. By using multiple systems (GPS, GLONASS, Galileo) and triangulating the signal using software we can achieve a high location accuracy.

0
0
Silver badge
Joke

Tic Toc

Reading the article made me think that the whole reason for Brexit and refusing the jurisdiction of the CoJ was so we could say "warranty., what warranty?" on the clocks. Turns out however that they Swiss made by a company that has gone into liquidation rather than pay up.

9
3
Silver badge
WTF?

What's in a name?

I don't really give a toss, but how come the "UK's winner" is the name of the patron saint of another EU country?

Couldn't we have got something more appropriate? Like "Dick", or "Billy-No-Mates".

20
4
Silver badge

Re: What's in a name?

Patrick was British. :)

6
2
Silver badge

Re: What's in a name?

@Mage

Patrick was neither Roman nor Greek. In Roman eyes he was therefore a barbarian.

9
0
Silver badge

Re: What's in a name?

So an immigrant, Welsh and then a refugee ! splutter !

19
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: What's in a name?

If it is renamed "Hans" - will the next two be "Knees" and "Bumps"?

10
1

Re: What's in a name?

Patrick was Roman.

2
0
Silver badge

Re: What's in a name?

Patrick was Roman.

But a non-dom living in tax exile in Wales

9
0
Silver badge
Happy

Re: What's in a name?

Well, since I am British, a British Hans ... Hans is OK by me ... then again, we will probably keep Patrick and replace the Union Jack with trídhathach na hÉireann on the vessel ... would make them more than happy ... as for the Hans hands pun, well ... it is getting old ... but I really like this one:

When I get out of my car, it is Hans-free.

13
1
Silver badge

Re: What's in a name?

how come the "UK's winner" is the name of the patron saint of another EU country?

You do realise that the English Patron saint was Roman soldier of Greek origin hoisted on the population by nordic invaders based in France don't you?

16
0

We should just take our toys now, get with the Commonwealth and create a decent Newton constellation- after all, the Commonwealth is global and very diverse, unlike some other local small minded wannabe super states

23
34
Silver badge

Perhaps the Commonwealth countries wanted independence for a reason? I don't think the Windrush countries will be out in the streets welcoming our one and only aircraftless carrier.

32
14

Hmm, the down votes I presume are for pointing out that the Commonwealth is larger and more diverse (& tolerant & a far larger market & mostly lacking in ant-Democratic edicts and directives)

23
32
Silver badge

No, the downvotes are because a) it's a smaller market than the EU and b) they're not waiting for the UK to flounce back and assume its rightful place at the head of the table. Empire is over, those days have been and gone.

43
16

Um, having GAINED independence the Commonwealth countries VOLUNTEERED to join the Commonwealth. It is so well thought of that non Empire countries ask (& are allowed) to join.

Perhaps not everyone is aware of what the Commonwealth is ? (& does)

28
13

India

Pakistan

Bangladesh

South Africa

Australia

New Zealand

Canada

Zambia

Caribbean nations

Pacific nations

Growing market unlike the shrinking EU.

How many people in the Space faring, aircraft carrier, nuclear nation that is India ?

With a growing market ?

21
20
Silver badge

My point was, why do you presume that they're all queuing up to trade with the UK? The UK can't dictate terms, they may trade with the UK if it's advantageous for them.

And why do you think time has stopped still? They're in their own local trading blocs now, only the UK has found it necessary to leave its own trading bloc in a moment of national madness.

And finally their markets aren't big enough to replace the EU.

39
19
Silver badge

is larger and more diverse (& tolerant & a far larger market

Take the CIA annual stats handbook and check your numbers. Commonwealth is around one third of the GDP of Eu. If recomputed in purchasing power or GDP per capita due to these being rather low for India and Pakistan it is even less.

So as a matter of fact, the commonwealth is smaller than Eu using any standard market assessment metrics known to man. Except the delusional Kipling recital ones.

It is also not a uniform market and there is no free (or even facilitated) movement of goods and services by any means. At all. There are tariffs, limitations and external agreements by countries (including with the Eu) which prevent them from giving any sort of economic significance to the Commonwealth as an entity. So as a matter of fact - it is not a market. It is a construct for the purposes of exercising nostalgia.

43
7

Growing markets ( because time hasn’t stood still)

We have a negative trade balance with a shrinking market.

And yes, when we left the Commonwealth trade block and joined a customs union it was indeed a moment of national madness, the lies told then were as bad as the lies told now.

15
29
Anonymous Coward

"[...] & tolerant & a far larger market & mostly lacking in ant-Democratic edicts and directives)"

Tolerant is the last word I would use for many of the Commonwealth countries. With some notable exceptions like Canada, New Zealand, and Australia - many of the others are still promoting Victorian colonial era bigotry under the guise of religious piety. Not to mention institutionalised corruption and cronyism.

Some members of the Tory Party would probably be happy to see those standards imposed in the UK as part of trade deals.

27
8
Silver badge

Myths of Commonwealth Betrayal: UK–Africa Trade Before and After Brexit

Abstract

This article critically interrogates claims that a British exit from the European Union (EU) (Brexit) will create opportunities for the UK to escape the EU’s apparent protectionism and cumbersome internal politics in order to pursue a more liberal and globalist trade agenda based on the Commonwealth. Taking a historical view of UK and EU trade relations with the Commonwealth in Africa, the author highlights the way in which the incorporation of the majority of Commonwealth states into the EU’s preferential trading relationships has reconfigured ties between the UK and its former colonies over time. Further, the author suggests that the EU’s recent attempts to realise a vision for an ambitious set of free trade agreements in Africa—the Economic Partnership Agreements—was disrupted not by EU protectionism or internal politics but rather by African resistance to the EU’s liberal agenda for reciprocal tariff liberalisation and regulatory harmonisation. The UK therefore faces a complex challenge if it is to disentangle its trade relations with Africa from those of the EU and to forge its own set of ambitious free trade agreements with African Commonwealth partners.

16
3

If it was all about nostalgia why does it prosper ?

And the proposal is to work with the Commonwealth which inter alia would perhaps include trade agreements, beneficial to both parties, perhaps by reducing food tariffs, while extending the science & technical co-operation that is currently crippled by EU tariffs and rules explicitly designed to impose unfavourable trade conditions on our once favoured trading partners of the Commonwealth.

We did this before ( although we were promised that this would not happen), changed our trading focus, last time we swapped a global based market for a local continentally bound closed custom union which had/has the belief it should be a state. This time we can leave a customs union and rejoin a global market place, resolving the dichotomy caused by the wish of the EU governing (un-elected) bodies for ever closer union compared to the apparent wish of the British NOT to be part of a centrally governed super state

11
25

So the EU agricultural tariffs don’t exist ?

13
4
Silver badge
Boffin

How many people in the Space faring, aircraft carrier, nuclear nation that is India ?

About 1.35 billion. With an average annual income of $1,670 in 2016.

The population of the EU is around 510 million. With an average annual income in 2017 of $21,340. (Highest income - Denmark, $43,454. Lowest - Bulgaria, $5,700.)

I know which I'd rather trade with.

30
5
Silver badge

Re: the lies told then were as bad as the lies told now

Did they promise an extra £350M/week for the NHS?

22
10
Silver badge

>We should just take our toys now, get with the Commonwealth...

Commonwealth citizens laugh at people like you.

>>Perhaps not everyone is aware of what the Commonwealth is ? (& does)

Enlighten us peter_dtm. What does the Commonwealth do?

What are its major achievements these last 25 years, say?

18
7
Anonymous Coward

Pakistan is an acronym

1
0

Oh I see now. You mean the UK's version of the E.U..

The same, only different. Because of course the U.K. is an empire after all.

Silly Brits, still suffering from delusions of grandeur I see.

19
6
Silver badge
Happy

Canada is a non-full member of ESA.

What I find so funny is how some Brits fool themselves to believe Brexit is considered such a splendid idea among the Commonwealth countries. The reality is very different and leaving the EU Britain is destroying the bridge for the CW countries through Britain to the EU.

Brexit is a deeply stupid goal* and the CW countries are hardly too keen to bail out the UK.

In other news regarding Galileo "following its exit from the European Union. As a result, Airbus plans to relocate work on the Ground Control Segment (GCS) from its Portsmouth premises to an EU state".

*Disclaimer, while one has to assume Brexit means Brexit I still feel the fat lady has not yet started singing.

24
3
Happy

*** What does the Commonwealth do? ***

Putting on regular games.

17
0
Thumb Up

India

. . .

How many people in the Space faring, aircraft carrier, nuclear nation that is India ?

- - - - -

Right, India-led Commonwealth

Don’t forget they have all the call centres to resolve user issues too.

20
0
Mushroom

Oh, The Magic of Clockwork Theory Strikes Again

If only economics worked like clockwork. A magical clockwork world wherein the number of people in a trade bloc is the same as the number of people who purchase goods and services from member nations of the trade bloc. Such a place where, for instance, 510 million people can all be counted as 510 million actual customers who actively purchase from, say, the UK.

Funnily enough, except for the history and antics of man (and woman), the real world does not work like clockwork.

510 million people do not automatically constitute 510 million paying customers for each member nation of the EU. No one is so entitled to believe they have the automatic right to count population stats this way.

The economy's health is dependent on partners that trade with it and not on the fancies of statisticians who point at numbers and conclude "There! There they are! 510 million people and all of them will purchase at least something from the UK each week"

Much better to have real and confirmed businesses plus real and confirmed people who will purchase our products and services than to have a set of numbers of prospects of which fewer than 10% might purchase goods and services from us. And, yes, I am aware it runs both sides of the Brexit debate.

So, I think you can tell what I think of your 'But, but, but there are 510 million people in the EU who earn between $5,700 and $43,454 per annum who will prefer to order sugar from us via Amazon or eBay instead of loyally walking to their local corner shop to enjoy a quick cig and a natter with their neighbours.'

That $43,454 figure is a bit too precise for my liking.

What you actually need to consider is how many people and businesses in the EU actually purchase from the UK and invest in the UK, how much of this collective transaction can EU bureaucracy interfere with, what's left of that calculation that favours the UK, how much will non-EU trade and investment bring to the UK, and what's the then total trade balance? Compare that balance with the existing balance to decide whether leaving the EU is a net benefit or gain to UK trade and industry.

Alternatively, show your lack of education and life experience, rely on hysterical loops, and try to predict economics with Clockwork Theory.

In any case, Brexit is not purely about economics.

4
15
Anonymous Coward

@peter_dtm

Prosper in what sense? The Commonwealth Games? CHOGM? Hmmm...

I emigrated in 2004 and live in Australia now. The Australian Government has made lots of nice noises towards its counterpart at Westminster, true. There have even been some trade agreement working parties. But there won't be any actual negotiations until after March 2019 for some peculiar reason.

However, after working through the same sort of preliminaries since 2015, guess who Australia's actually negotiating a comprehensive trade agreement with right now, even as I write? Oh yes, it's the EU.

In truth, the underlying position in Canberra towards the UK is polite indifference - "if we can do a deal and get something out of it, fine: if not, too bad, it's lower down the list of priorities than trade with China, the US and the EU".

Beyond that, even if it's not grounded in economic or political fact, the tide is against the UK: while some still sentimentally hanker, many older Australians and Kiwis have not forgotten what they perceive as Britain's betrayals in the 1970s. Meanwhile, as far as I can see, the younger ones simply don't care: the UK is just somewhere neat to go backpacking. The Commonwealth Games is merely an excuse for more 'Aussie Gold'. CHOGM 2018 was barely reported here (I had to hunt for coverage).

The world has moved on. So all I can say is good luck - you really will need it.

33
3
Silver badge

So as a matter of fact, the commonwealth is smaller than Eu using any standard market assessment metrics known to man.

Although perhaps a better market for Dutchy shortcakes and cricket pitches - which post-brexit may be the UK's principle export

7
1

This post has been deleted by its author

Anonymous Coward

> We should just take our toys now, get with the Commonwealth and [...]

If that fails you could always try joining the Francophonie. :-)

7
1

tolerant???

Executions for blasphemy in the EU, last 50 yrs: 0

Executions for blasphemy in the commonwealth, last 50 yrs: Also none, but 62 murdered while awaiting trial.

13
1
Silver badge

So the EU agricultural tariffs don’t exist ?

Did you not read it? In trade negotiations, the EU proposal was to drop tariffs but African countries wouldn't.

9
0
Silver badge
Facepalm

What I find extraordinarily funny, here, is that the UK treated the EU like shit, much more so its vassal states in the Empire back then and somehow thinks that the EU is open to ever more negotiation, will allow cherry-picking and the nations in the commonwealth will somehow get amnesia... does nobody in the UK remember the cotton BS you enforced on India (+Pakistan, +Bangladesh) in a not too distant past ? You think they'll go, "Hey, lords, why do we not do that again, it was cool for us to get treated like shit ?"

You really think the UK can compete with Indian or Pakistani wages ?

I dunno, I just dunno ... beyond help.

22
1
Silver badge

Enlighten us peter_dtm. What does the Commonwealth do? What are its major achievements these last 25 years, say?

Aquaducts?

11
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: the lies told then were as bad as the lies told now

Did they promise an extra £350M/week for the NHS?

No, and nor did the Brexit bunch. It's just remainer FUD.

6
24
Silver badge

<iu.What does the Commonwealth do?

What are its major achievements these last 25 years, say?</i>

One could ask the same of the EU!

5
12

Page:

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Forums

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2018