back to article Microsoft's latest Windows 10 update downs Chrome, Cortana

Microsoft says it's looking into reports that apps including "Hey Cortana" and Google Chrome hang or freeze for those who have installed the recent Windows 10 April 2018 Update. The company suggests trying the Windows logo key + Ctrl + Shift + B to wake the screen or, for laptop users, opening and closing device lid, in an …

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  1. Carl D

    Anyone else besides me still wondering why Windows 10 seems to be getting progressively worse nearly 3 years after it's general release despite all the telemetry Microsoft collects from insiders and millions of unpaid beta testers?

    For goodness sake Microsoft, stop adding more useless "features" to Windows 10 and start working on making a stable operating system that doesn't introduce radical changes every 6 months like you used to have with Windows XP and Windows 7.

    A nice big "Telemetry Off" button (that really works) would be good as well.

    1. joed Silver badge

      Telemetry is here to piss off privacy minded people and not to help with debugging - "this will teach them" philosophy of sorts.

      At least Cortana can now be turned off, courtesy of MS. Enjoy while it lasts.

      1. Teiwaz Silver badge

        Cortana turned off

        At least Cortana can now be turned off, courtesy of MS. Enjoy while it lasts.

        'turned off', you mean - people reading the comments without reading the article might actually think Ms had a change of heart regarding it's annoying assistant.

        She's 'turned off' 'cause the software surgeons at MS left a 'wrench' in the works they now can't find.

      2. rmullen0

        I agree that both telemetry and Cortana both suck. I didn't realize that you could now turn of Cortana because I was using the registry key to do it before. There aren't really a whole lot of new features though. There are a few nice ones like having SSH bundled, curl, and a more polished UI. Windows 7 was a steaming pile. As far as I'm concerned 10 is a lot better, other than Cortana and giving away all privacy. Though if one truly cared about those things, they wouldn't be using Microsoft software to begin with. They worked with the NSA on Vista. I have no reason to believe anything has changed in that regard since then. Therefore it is safe to assume the software is completely untrustworthy.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I've outlined the reasons on El Reg countless times

      1) Insiders = nincompoops. Fanboys, not professional QA testers.

      2) Auto-push updates, 'ship it and we'll fix it along the way' mentality of CEO SatNad. Probably to also cut costs, refer to point #1.

      3) Win 10 is the last version of Windows, so Microsoft is constantly trying to 'reinvent the wheel' and cram in new features through updates (with fancy names e.g. Spring Creators Update) to make it seem 'fresh' and 'new'. While having scant regard for stability and compatibility in the code. In the old days, Windows would become progressively more stable with each cumulative update after RTM, especially with those milestone huge updates (Service Packs).

      4) SatNad is the Big Data/Cloud guy. He sees his main rivals as Google and Amazon. Slurping (telemetry) is going to continue unabated. Windows 'S' mode is a sneak preview of things to come.

      ----

      For me, thank goodness my Windows 10 refuses to update ("We couldn't complete the updates, undoing changes"), a blessing in disguise. So I disabled the Windows Update service and am sitting pretty at build 1709. It's a new machine assembled/bought in Dec 2017. One of the minor updates along the way caused this to happen. I looked through the various forums and found out that I'm hardly alone encountering such an issue. There are various workarounds suggested but frankly I can't be bothered. Microsoft can't even get the simple basics correct, so to hell with it.

      1. MrDamage

        Re: I've outlined the reasons on El Reg countless times

        > "Win 10 is the last version of Windows, so Microsoft is constantly trying to 'reinvent the wheel' and cram in new features through updates (with fancy names e.g. Spring Creators Update) to make it seem 'fresh' and 'new'."

        Maybe they got their hemispheres mixed up. Down south it's Autumn, so it's only fitting the update is slowly killing everything.

      2. eldakka Silver badge

        Re: I've outlined the reasons on El Reg countless times

        > 2) Auto-push updates, 'ship it and we'll fix it along the way' mentality of CEO SatNad. Probably to also cut costs, refer to point #1.

        While SatNad may be doing this for windows 10, it's really more Microsoft buying into the whole Agile, DevOps and Continous Integration schtick.

      3. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: I've outlined the reasons on El Reg countless times

        " Insiders = nincompoops. Fanboys, not professional QA testers."

        Yes, Micro-shaft definitely made it VERY UNFRIENDLY for *ANYONE* who became an insider in order to improve the product by feeding opinions back to Micro-shaft, when such feedback did NOT fall in LOCK STEP with the FASCIST REGIME opinions of Micro-shaft.

        Dissension was rewarded with BANS and DELIBERATE+OBVIOUS BIASED TREATMENT of so-called "term of use" violations. Fanboi trolls would deliberately engage people, "a comment" that didn't even violate TOU would be issued from the target, and then *POUNCE* and BAN. They got REALLY BAD after a while, like they were DELIBERATELY trying to clean out EVERYONE who dissented, so they could have a nice "pleasant" forum of like-minded sycophantic groupies.

        One day 4 or 5 individuals commented to me in their forum about things that were irrelevant, but it was like 'sock puppet' posts, people who were CONSTANT violators of the TOU (they were frequent ad hominem attackers, for one). Next thing I get is a 'ban warning' (a "last warning" in fact) for allegedly doing something NOT COVERED by their TOU. At that point I abandoned their forum to their own folly. It was obviously NOT going to help any more to tell Micro-shaft why they were screwing up, with examples and specificity, in as many areas as I could think of [which I did for about a year, actually, and did NOT violate their TOU]. So yeah I saw it first hand. They didn't want dissenting opinions. Many other dissenters left the forum at the same time.

        Yeah, no @#$% this really happened.

    3. FuzzyWuzzys Silver badge

      Sad really to see MS in such a state now

      I'm probably stating the bleedin' obvious but MS are now in a corner of sorts. In the 1990s they bullied their way onto the home desktop around the world and created this "monster", they saw the desktop as their own "1000 year reich". MS is now stuck in the 90's, they have no choice but to try to keep Windows desktop relevant despite the everyone slowly going mobile and cloud services. For the average person, a browser, keyboard and pointy device is all they need, it makes no difference now what the hardware of O/S is. Here I'm talking purely about granny and grandad, and Uncle Kev who simply want email, maybe a spreadsheet or word-proc type app, access to Facebook for keeping touch with rest of their family, that type of user couldn't careless what they O/S or apps they use, they can do that all online these days and they outnumber we geeks thousands to one.

      MS are going the way of IBM, they were top of their game at one point but sadly the world around them is moving far faster than they can possibly keep up with and while they'll remain relevent in the grand scheme of things, they will slowly have to be pensioned off. They're trying, they have Azure but it's not a patch on the rapidity and spread of services like AWS or Google clouds. MS, just like Oracle, are like that aged relative who refuses to leave their old home and go to a warden controlled housing block. Everyone knows they'll be well looked after, much happier and they'll make more friends, but they simply won't budge, clinging on to a past that's fading away fast.

      1. Mage Silver badge

        Re: MS is now stuck in the 90's,

        If only they were. Win98 & NT4.0 had decent GUIs.

        NT3.5 & NT3.51 so stable that even two years after NT4.0, some new server installs used NT3.51. NT4.0 was vulnerable to bluescreen via GDI.

        NT5.x wasn't bad (Win2K, XP and Server 2003). Then Office & Windows when downhill. Win7 was really only a bugfix/service pack of Vista, what Vista should have been and even so a SP on XP would have been better.

        1. LenG

          Re: MS is now stuck in the 90's,

          GUI is a sore point. Constantly changing the interface from release to release chasing some mythical "user friendly, easy to learn" ideal forgets that existing users have to relearn the UI and find where the hell the settings have moved to this time.

          For years I managed to keep the interface stable (more or less Win2k) with the aid of inbuilt customisation options and things like classic shell. However, from 8 onwards M$ have deliberately made this more and more difficult. Which brain dead idiot decided that all title bars should be the same colour? Eventually they relented on that, slightly. You can now make the active title bar the same colour as the task bar. Actually, you can also set the inactive title bar colour if you are willing to use the registry editor to add a new hex key.

          Nowadays my big powerful Windoze box is basically a sophisticated games machine (the best computer games still require more than a console). All my "real" computing, except one or two video apps which require the extra grunt, is done on an Intel NUC running linux. In the last 15 years I've never had a significant (OS induced) problem with a linux box and I have a choice of desktops to suit my tastes not the trendy ideas of some spotty nerd in the M$ customer experience development department.

        2. Zippy's Sausage Factory

          Re: MS is now stuck in the 90's,

          "If only they were. Win98 & NT4.0 had decent GUIs."

          You make me wish I could find my NT 4 install disk now. Lost in a house move years ago.

          /me quickly searches eBay...

      2. boltar Silver badge

        Re: Sad really to see MS in such a state now

        "MS are going the way of IBM, they were top of their game at one point but sadly the world around them is moving far faster than they can possibly keep up "

        Every decade or so people start to write IBMs obituary. Well its still going, mainly IMO because unlike a lot of large corps that divested divisions to concentrate on "core strengths" (whatever that means), it has kept fingers in many pies, the only noticable sell off being its home PC division. MS OTOH is by nature a one trick pony despite various attempts to saddle other horses, and that pony is becoming increasingly lame. Whether it'll still be around in 20 years time isn't something I'd want to lay money on frankly.

      3. Updraft102 Silver badge

        Re: Sad really to see MS in such a state now

        MS is now stuck in the 90's, they have no choice but to try to keep Windows desktop relevant despite the everyone slowly going mobile and cloud services.

        Not everyone. Not every computing-related task lends itself to one of these toys people call smart phones... real work is still done on real hardware, and a lot of us still (and will always) prefer PCs instead of "fondleslabs."

        I question how much "going mobile" is happening these days. How long have smartphones been around? It seems to me that everyone who was going to go mobile would have done so by now. My doctor's office has PCs in every exam room, and so does my pet's veterinarian, and my dentist. They're used for everything now, including the display of X-ray images on their large screens. Am I supposed to believe that these are going to go away and be replaced by a six inch smart phone, with the older-than-a-millennial doctor squinting at the tiny screen? Mobility, in this case, isn't needed; the exam room is a fixed location, and trying to cram a smart phone into that setting because "the world is going mobile" would just be stupid.

        So yeah, PC sales are declining. PCs used to be obsolete in a year, and now a six year old PC is still competitive with brand new gear (I am using one that old to write this). People don't buy PCs every year or two now... they're like any other mature market, where people only buy new when the old one no longer works. Like toasters, microwave ovens, and refrigerators-- none of which are considered obsolete or "in trouble" because people use them until they die instead of replacing perfectly good kit every other year just because.

        These PCs still need an operating system, and until recently, that would usually have been Windows... but now Windows is a "cloud service," not an OS, so what is a person who doesn't wish to be "serviced" by Microsoft (aka "everyone") to do?

        If Windows 10 is supposed to be Microsoft's attempt to keep desktop Windows relevant, I have to laugh at the irony-- I've been one of the Windows/PC stalwarts who has used Windows for approaching three decades now, and now that I've done my bit to make MS what it is today, they give me... this? I'm using Linux Mint to type this right now, and that's wholly because of Windows 10. If their desperate attempt to keep Windows alive is killing Windows, what then?

        I'm not certain that MS wants Windows to be relevant or alive. None of the antics of Microsoft make any sense if you presuppose that MS wants to keep Windows vibrant and healthy going forward. If you consider that perhaps MS is trying to monetize Windows and squeeze Windows customers for all they are worth in the short term, while giving it the bare minimum of maintenance and testing possible so that they can save even more money, with the eventual goal of destroying Windows so they can simply write it off and forget it ever existed... then it makes perfect sense. Revenues from Windows will go up, stock prices will rise, and people will cheer as the new CEO struts around and pats himself on the back for getting Microsoft's groove back, while the product that got MS to where it is now is chipped away and sold as scrap, bit by bit, until nothing's left. Most analysts will not notice this... they will just see the increased Windows revenues and pronounce Windows healthy, even though the revenues are only up because it's being liquidated. Microsoft has a lot of lock-in, and people (including the corporate decision makers) will initially tolerate the monetization abuse, so it will take a while to reach the breaking point and for the exodus to begin. Only when it does will the analysts begin to catch on to the liquidation of Windows. They'll think it was a recent thing; they will never realize that the intentional destruction of Windows began in 2015.

    4. Sphynx
      Linux

      Try Linux. Once I did, I never looked back . I use Windows so that I can use Adobe's Photoshop and Lightroom, otherwise, I can do everything else in Linux and enjoy it. I ran out of time waiting for Windows to update every Tuesday. Linux Mint is my favorite, solid as a rock. Manjaro/Arch Linux is good, too.

      1. getHandle

        GIMP is pretty good

        As a linux-based alternative to Photoshop...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: GIMP is pretty good

          As a linux-based alternative to Photoshop Paint...

          Jokes aside, GIMP, unluckily, still does too little compared to Photoshop - AFAIK adjustment layers are not implemented yet, CMYK support is not yet adequate for professional work. Can it record actions and replay them? Not long ago it couldn't. When you have a lot of repetitive tasks, it helps a lot.

          Nor you can't use the large number of Photoshop plug-ins, many of which are excellent at specific tasks (i.e. noise reduction in photos).

          Even low cost alternatives on Windows do better than GIMP, and support Photoshop plug-ins.

          Sure, as a free application for a few images to be used only on-screen, GIMP works, with some limitations. For many professional tasks, especially those that require a printed image, GIMP is still not a solution.

          Maybe it was better to add missing features, instead of wasting time to allow for it being skinned...

          1. trog-oz

            Re: GIMP is pretty good

            No CMYK, but if you know what you are doing, GIMP can record and replay actions, there are a shed load of plugins available, and you can get some PS plugins to work. At work I have the latest version of Adobe Suite available to me but I prefer to use GIMP as I find the user interface much better. The price is unbeatable too!

            1. frank ly Silver badge

              Re: GIMP is pretty good

              If you want a free alternative to Photoshop, or GIMP; I'd recommend Krita. You can get the Linux appimage or the Windows version in installer or portable/standalone mode. There is an active forum where the actual developers take part and they listen to ideas for future improvements and additional facilities.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: GIMP is pretty good

                If you're really dependant on Photoshop for your livelihood and don't want to run Windows, it's probably better to bite the bullet and get a Mac. I see a lot of those creative arty-farty designer people using Macs as their default daily driver OS anyway.

                I'm not against Microsoft Windows per se; pick whichever OS you perceive to help you get the job done. But the recent trends of Windows is troubling. Microsoft needs to rethink its philosophy when it comes to Windows.

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: GIMP is pretty good

                @ Frank ly

                Am I looking at the right product. I looks more of a drawing package rather than a photo editing package. Yes I know there is overlap...but in my experience art packages are used to start from scratch and Photoshop etc are to edit existing.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  "Photoshop etc are to edit existing."

                  No, Photoshop despite its name is a full art package - many people use it to create from scratch iwhen hey don't need Illustrator features, or along Illustrator for a more "handwork" approach when needed. With a graphic tablet or monitor it's fully equipped to create images from scratch.

                  Still, Photoshop provides also powerful photo editing capabilities - that's why it became so widespread for most "bitmap images" work. Lately anyway many photographers like also to work in non-destructive editing tools like Lightroom, which are faster to use across multiple photos than Photoshop, which is essentially designed to work on a single image at a time.

                2. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  call me a sceptic, but ..

                  Gimp's UI sucks - but howcome everyone whinges about so much about Photoshop ?

                  are there *really* that many creators using it, (i doubt it) or are there just too many normal farty users (like me) who just use it (GIMP) but are too afraid to change over from their cracked version of Photoshop to put the time in to learn GIMP ?

                  *Most* of what you can do in PS can be done in GIMP - if you spent time learning it, sure, Pro users won't generally use GIMP but most of what us non-pro's need, is doable in GIMP, even though it's UI is in-intuitive & early-90s ish.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              "there are a shed load of plugins available"

              The problem is they are GIMP plugins, not Photoshop ones. My quite expensive printers come with specific plug-ins for Photoshop, not GIMP (nor they have drivers for Linux, for the matter).

              If you rely on some commercial specific plug-ins i.e. to prepare output for halftone printers, etc you make not like to have to find a replacement (and retest for output), especially if little supported.

              Not everyone just makes websites - other graphics business can be fairly more remunerative - but you need the right tools.

              And let's not speak about the GIMP UI... Photoshop is outdated and ugly, but GIMP is no better.

              Price is irrelevant, when it is a very small percentage of the cost of running your business. As posted elsewhere, a free tool may cost you more in wasted time and lost customers.

          2. eldakka Silver badge

            Re: GIMP is pretty good

            > As a linux-based alternative to Photoshop Paint...

            I can't comment on the differing capabilities of GIMP vs Phosotshop, however this is exactly what virtualisation is for.

            If you can't do without a MS app, run it up in a virtualised Windows machine just for that app. You don't need to use Windows (or any other O/S) as your core O/S just to run one or 2 specific apps anymore (well, for a long time now).

        2. BobChip
          Linux

          Re: GIMP is pretty good

          Note that it also runs on Windows as well (if you must stick with MS). And it is FREE, as well as being powerful.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            "And it is FREE"

            Who cares if it is free? Unless you are an hobbyist with little or no money (maybe after having spent lavishly on hardware beyond your needs...), really, being FREE is very, very low priority when you look for a tool.

            If it requires more time to perform the same task, or can't do something at all, and that means less work done in a given time and less customers, it means you LOSE money - probably more than the cost of a tool that actually does what you need in less time and less issues.

            Some people think FREE is magic word - the hard reality is what is important - professionally speaking - is PROFIT - and if you're smart, an increase in costs for better tooling can deliver a far higher profit, while compressing costs just for the sake of it may hamper profit as well.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: "And it is FREE"

              Who cares if it is free? Unless you are an hobbyist with little or no money (maybe after having spent lavishly on hardware beyond your needs...), really, being FREE is very, very low priority when you look for a tool.

              You have good point, very good point. When running a business, profit is what really matters, and cost of software is just part of the operation cost.

              But there are people who care if it is free, especially in the startup markets and none software specialized markets. Startups with a low starting budget will look at the cost of their business by a lot. Perhaps not photoshop with their now cheaper subscription fee, but other proprietary software license will be reviewed with free alternatives before being purchased. None software specialized markets is obvious. They don't need photoshop or the likes for most of their operation, but they need just that one feature from a software for a day or few more. They will take advantage of the 14/30 days trial and other free alternatives.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                "especially in the startup markets"

                Some startups are expensive to bootstrap anyway, and if you want to have a good chance to become successful, you have to start the right way. I'm not against free software, I'm against the idea that something is the best just because it's free. That's a dangerous assumption, if you don't understand the ramification, and the impact it will have on building and sustaining your business.

                It's IMHO pretty stupid, for example, to start a company with fancy and expensive furniture, thinking you can save on actual tools and the like. Sure, it could be a con man way to lure in investments, and deliver little or nothing.

                Finding that you've got the wrong tools, and having to retool in the middle of a project, can be far more expensive than starting with the right tools from the beginning, even if it costed more.

                If you're startupping and you don't have the money for the right tools, probably you planned it wrong - and most startup fails for many reasons including this one.

                You don't choose Linux or any other open source tool just "because they're free" (but greed is often a powerful driver...). You choose them if they deliver what you need - at least in a fully acceptable way.

                I'm not against GIMP - but the idea it is a full alternative to Photoshop is laughable, and just shows a lack of understanding of the graphics business.

                It's this attitude that keeps Linux away from many desktops, and I'd really like to see more alternatives - even non free ones - to Windows and macOS applications.

                Just I won't ever cripple my business to assert a faith in a business model as long as it doesn't fit mine.

                The turn Windows took under Nadella could be a great trust for Linux adoption - but it needs applications that can FULLY compete with Windows/macOS ones.

                Being free, is not enough, I'm sorry, maybe you're monks and live of river waters and woods fruits and roots, I'm not and I like good profits and a comfortable life... I ask good money for my work, and I'm OK to pay others as well.

                1. TVU Silver badge

                  Re: "especially in the startup markets"

                  "It's this attitude that keeps Linux away from many desktops, and I'd really like to see more alternatives - even non free ones - to Windows and macOS applications"

                  I do understand where you're coming from. For me, I use Corel Aftershot Pro, Pixeluvo, Polarr and Photomatix for photos on Linux (I quite like Pixlr too) and I don't have to go anywhere near GIMP (the 2.10 version does appear to be a significant and upgrade and improvement though). I know of other photographers who are successfully using versions of Photoshop and Photoshop Elements via Wine and it is possible to use Adobe CC apps online too (look up This Script Helps Install Adobe Creative Cloud on Linux).

        3. Gene Cash Silver badge

          Re: GIMP is pretty good

          No, it's not. I've used it for about 10 years now, and it's still pretty shite, and nowhere near the capabilities of Photoshop. I simply refuse to use Adobe so I just soldier on.

          1. TVU Silver badge

            Re: GIMP is pretty good

            "No, it's not. I've used it for about 10 years now, and it's still pretty shite, and nowhere near the capabilities of Photoshop. I simply refuse to use Adobe so I just soldier on"

            I'd suggest looking at the Affinity and Skylum/Macphun ranges of softwares to see if they meet your needs. They get good reviews and, best of all, they are available for a one off purchase cost.

        4. Walter Bishop Silver badge
          Linux

          Re: GIMP is pretty good

          @getHandle: "GIMP is pretty good As a linux-based alternative to Photoshop"...

          Only on here can a suggestion to try Gimp can get a minus twenty six vote :]

          You should also try out RawTherapee.

      2. Nimby Bronze badge
        FAIL

        Try Linux. - Or DON'T! (My love/hate Linux rant.)

        I use Linux at work, on Dell PCs. It's great. In a corporate IT environment which can lock into a common hardware platform and vet all kernel and driver updates before pushing to end-users.

        For over a decade I have been trying to use Linux at home. Every time I build a new home PC I attempt to set up a dual-boot of Linux / Windows. Last time I tried, I even went to do Linux-only with Windows in a VM with VGA passthrough. The _only_ reason I have to keep Windows around at home is for gaming.

        In theory.

        In practice, the REAL reason I seem to keep needing Windows at home is that it is the only OS that actually works without tons and tons of continual effort.

        E-v-e-r-y ... s-i-n-g-l-e ... t-i-m-e, for over a decade, Linux lets me down. It has destroyed my Windows partition, or (my favorite) destroyed itself and the Windows partition by suddenly accessing my RAID 5 array as individual disks due to a crap driver, or reverses my eth list post-install, or when I update my graphics driver to the "suggested" one, after compile and reboot it segfaults, et cetera ad nauseam.

        Something ALWAYS goes horribly wrong! And that is not even counting the myriad of minor bugs that I am willing to overlook like fixing when some numbnutz sets the console foreground and background colors to both be black?! Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, Suse, etc. Every new PC build I try again. Countless distros go into the attempts. The closest I ever get to a working is with openSUSE. I don't know why. Lucky lizard?

        I keep wanting to use Linux at home. And it keeps not wanting me to use it. I want to spend my time USING my PC, not administering it. And this is where Windows (unfortunately) seems to be the only game in town. For better or worse, Windows just works. It installs. It runs. No fuss. Have a nice day.

        It is a shame with Windows 10 that MS is eroding that.

        My kingdom for Apple to start selling Mac OS for non-Apple x86 PCs. (Yes, with careful choices in hardware, you can hack it on. But I build PCs because I want an open choice in hardware.) Because Linux just is NOT filling this role. If a software engineer and hobbyist system builder with regular Linux experience absolutely CANNOT get his home PC to work RELIABLY using Linux for over a decade, what chance do regular consumers have?

        Unfortunately the problem with large open-source software projects is that far too many people get to work on whatever whim they want to, and NOT what the software actually needs. Linux is just too fragmented for its own good, so will never be able to compete with Windows for simplicity of working with ANY hardware with a minimum of effort.

        I will NEVER build a PC for a friend or family member that uses Linux. I will ALWAYS pay the MS tax. Not because I want to. ONLY because I do not want to spend the rest of my life ADMINISTERING the PCs of my friends and family members. Saving the hundred bucks just ain't worth it!

        1. Teiwaz Silver badge

          Re: Try Linux. - Or DON'T! (My love/hate Linux rant.)

          I've been using 'Linux at home for 18 years.

          Suse, Mandriva, Ubuntu Archlinux.

          The occasional issue - due to poor or impatient choices in Hardware - but mostly it's a joy of total control.

          You can't buy the latest GPU or even CPU hot off R&D - the drivers are never up to it. Not the OSS ones 'cause the devs haven't had time (and rarely enough help from the manufacturer), and not the proprietary drivers (if there are any) 'cause the manufacturers couldn't give a monkeys.

          The Linux kernel team does an amazing job, and the distros do their best to try to ensure the most amount of hardware is recognised, but even MS mostly relies on the hardware companies, and Apple don't do other hardware than their own curated machines because of the enormous headaches.

          As well as having to settle for slightly older hardware to ensure best operation, you also have to research any hardware you intend to buy more closely than you would normally,

          You have to accept when you choose to use 'Linux, you are mostly buying things on your own knowledge, up to recently, there was never a little penguin logo on the box guaranteeing compatibility with 'Linux.

          1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: Try Linux. - Or DON'T! (My love/hate Linux rant.)

            "As well as having to settle for slightly older hardware to ensure best operation"

            There's the opposite side to this coin. If you have some particularly aged piece of H/W that needs to be supported you're apt to find that someone else with the same H/W has made sure the drivers are kept going in more recent kernels. Users have a motivation to do that whilst manufacturers don't once it's gone out of production.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Try Linux. - Or DON'T! (My love/hate Linux rant.)

              " If you have some particularly aged piece of H/W that needs to be supported you're apt to find that someone else with the same H/W has made sure the drivers are kept going in more recent kernels."

              I'm still using a perfectly functional 14 year old Samsung laser printer at home with my 3 linux based laptops. Understandably, it's no longer supported by the manufacturer, and unfortunately, my wife insists on windows, so we had to buy a new printer to work with her laptop. I'm still going to keep the Samsung going until I run out of Toner though...

              1. Hans 1 Silver badge

                Re: Try Linux. - Or DON'T! (My love/hate Linux rant.)

                My wife insists on windows, so we had to buy a new printer to work with her laptop. I'm still going to keep the Samsung going until I run out of Toner though...

                Why not simply buy a raspberry pi, hook up the printer, there, network printer ... then if you tell us on stackexchange.com what printer model it is (which language it speaks), we should be able to point you at one of the generic printer drivers in Windows to speak to it ;-).

                Fun project, espectially if the result is a 90's printer that support wifi-print ;-)

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Try Linux. - Or DON'T! (My love/hate Linux rant.)

                You could walk into a shop tomorrow and buy off the shelf a computer that is not supported by the manufacturer not fit for the operating system it has on it regardless of brand/manufacturer, and since the Linux kernel team has dropped much support for old hardware you're going to have to rake thru old source code and edit up your own bug fixes.

                Mind you re:the Linux kernel team there is so much junk in the kernel they would have been better supporting old hardware and leaving out the junk.

                1. Danny 14 Silver badge

                  Re: Try Linux. - Or DON'T! (My love/hate Linux rant.)

                  thing is, windows 10 doesnt have to be shite. windows server 2016 is quite bearable and doesnt have all the fucking tripe 10 has. The exact same with vista, server 2008 was fine, no problems with 2008 at all.

                  if games ran properly on server editions then it would be worth ponying up for server.....

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Every OS sucks..

            I started Linuxing in the 90s - my first distro was, as was common at that time, Red Hat 5.1,

            I'd not too long moved away from my extensive BBC Computer system (retro huh) and moved over to IBM-PC clones. after a few years of playing catch-up and deciding that Windows was crap even then - before switching to NT - it didn't cut the mustard or i thought, and i thought the OS was er, boring. Red Hat was cool.. though i even tried to like Solaris and OS/2 back then, but nothing was as exciting as Linux. I ended up compiling stuff & took great delight and pride in tuning my OS to my needs, and it was ok. The next few years i continued swapping between Win & Linux to get things done and saw Linux maturing and Windows bloating.

            I ditched Windows completely (apart from occasional radio programming and music production use) back in the early 2000s and went Linux only. I was happy enough, especially that i wasn't tied down into the sorry Windows world that i saw, as i kept all my friends & families PCs maintained and running for those years as well, which made me doubly happy i was out of that rat race.

            New hardware was bought and things subtly started to change, i bought the most expensive, huge laptop i could, and Linuxed it. the expensive laptop went away 3 times in the first 6 months for new keyboards, which were, i discoverd, just cheap black, plastic crap that most laptop keyboards had., but i digress... i had several different laptops, and was never happy with the dreadful power management and the overheating with Linux installed on them.

            It ended up as Linux distros got more bloated that most distro's wouldn't actually install onto these laptops as the conked-out during install due to overheating, so the only way was to install the distro with the laptop on it's side and a powerful mains powered house fan blowing it's forced air into the bottom of the laptop to avoid overheating - so i could successfully get the distro installed as, strangely, Linux was much less prone to overheating the laptop once the distro was properly installed to the HD, then i would screw around with the desktop's limited power management tweaks and would end up trying several kernels and eventually building my own.. yes, that was a huge pain in the ass, but i learnt a lot having to do this.

            Once i overcame that pretty important hurdle, Linux distros started cramming their desktops with dozens of background services i didn't want or need, worse still, many of these packages couldn't be uninstalled as they were complied against some needed dependencies, so i just made what troublesome trash that i could into non-executable, then disabled daemons and modules, and scripts and got somewhere that was ok i guess, even fully deleted system apps and edited scripts and a lot of general pissing around to get a decent laptop OS going with no bloatware. It became too much.

            Not even going to mention the Pulseaudio debacle - it was broken as shipped, un-intuitive, and shipped on almost all distro's before being declared fit for purpose.. Quality control went down further. Yes i tried submitting long & detailed and honest reports and entered into several dialogues, but i was ignored, as the dev's know better and already have their roadmap.

            I tried a few hackintosh's, i didn't initially care for OS X as i knew nothing much about it, and had only heard what the haters said, until i found that it ran way better than Linux on my hardware, even after the messing about trying to shoe-horn it on the hardware, it was *still* less pissing about than cleaning up & de-bloating a newly installed linux distro. and i could also transfer most of my music work (I'm a musician) to OS X and i ended up totally jumping ship totally from Linux to Mac OS X and it seemed okay too, It wasn't Windows (but could dual boot it if needed) and it wasn't Linux - a disjointed, hairy mess with poor power management and other flaky hardware support, When new hardware time came around again i bought 2 (cheap & old) iMac aluminiums & a (old) Macbook for travelling & went through a couple of (not new) Macbook Pro upgrades and i can run any OS on them, though Linux and BSD hardware support still sucks on them - i mean it works, but even on older Mac's (which remember, still has pretty generic PC hardware inside) Linux cant do power management properly, the damn screen *still* goes dark as some kernel level PM event kicks in and completely ignores the (whichever) desktop's system settings PM controls.. even ignoring xset - s off and that kind of stuff, so i kissed goodbye to linux, they cant get this basic stuff right yet in 2018, bloatware and desktop search and other unneeded, unwanted daemons and services are slurping CPU and RAM still and still no way to uninstall these properly or cleanly, it's a nightmare.

            Mac OS is now dreadful - Apple always *nearly* got things right, but often infuriatingly close, but still wrong... Mac OS too is now a unreliable, data-slurping dumbed-down privacy and bloated UI and security mess - Apple thinks hiding OS features is a good thing.. while at the same time slimming down their hardware until it's a too-skinny-to-be-strong, port-less, glued-in mess too.

            I think I've covered Linux already :) as they've lost the plot too, i mean, what kind of distro decides to hide features inherent in every desktop OS up until i guess,several years ago, then screws the UI and UX up, hides discoverability and expects users to bring a bash terminal up to do basic things - then has the insanity to say it's new user focussed - WTF ? are they expecting new users to know what a terminal is, where to find it, what command to type to start their desktop apps ?

            Linux fail.

            I hate Android and IOS too, they're dumbed-down consumer OS with total abstraction from the OS.

            What this thread is about is Windows 10. You already knowwhat i think of recent Mac OS and the last decade of Linux failure, so i'll leave it up to you to decide what i think of Win 10.

        2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Try Linux. - Or DON'T! (My love/hate Linux rant.)

          "I will NEVER build a PC for a friend or family member that uses Linux. I will ALWAYS pay the MS tax. Not because I want to. ONLY because I do not want to spend the rest of my life ADMINISTERING the PCs of my friends and family members."

          Oddly enough I take exactly the opposite course of action but for the same reason.

          E.g. I managed to recover a cousin-in-law's files from ransomware but I'm not going to rely on all ransomware authors to make the daft mistake of that one. She now runs Zorin and the Windows partition was left there as a frozen relic in case there's some needed file there that didn't get transferred to her home directory.

        3. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: Try Linux. - Or DON'T! (My love/hate Linux rant.)

          @ Nimby

          It sounds like you had a real bad run of luck there with linux. I have upgraded a number of people (not IT savy) to linux who got sick of windows 10 borking their machines (or windows 8 interface. People seem happy with win7).

          I personally use linux at work and home with a win7 partition for games only. I even resurrected an old XP machine for someone and installed ubuntu with Unity on it (I intended to change it but she said it looked nice and kept it). No device issues and no problems beyond basic questions of 'where has this gone' for a short time for all of these people. Maybe its worth giving another go.

        4. Barry Rueger Silver badge

          Re: Try Linux. - Or DON'T! (My love/hate Linux rant.)

          E-v-e-r-y ... s-i-n-g-l-e ... t-i-m-e, for over a decade, Linux lets me down.

          Ah yes, the inevitable "I tried Linux and it wrecked my computer, burned down my house, neutered my dog, and left town with my wife" guy.

          I did a fresh Linux install yesterday. It took fifteen minutes, including updates and disabling Caps Lock. It's rock solid stable, has everything I need on a daily basis, and has a UI that is completely free of the Win 10 mess. By which I mean it's essentially like Windows XP, VISTA, 7 etc.

          My computers get updated more or less daily without incident, don't break things, and don't demand a reboot every time.

          For the vast majority of people with the vast majority of hardware a move to Linux will be fast, safe, and painless. Unless there's a specific application that you need - accounting, Photoshop (Web based now, does it even it need Windows?), gaming, there is no reason whatsoever for most people to stick with windows.

          And, as I speak, Win 10 has translated half the programs on my wife's computer to Slovak language instead of English. I dread trying to fix that mess.

          1. doublelayer

            Re: Try Linux. - Or DON'T! (My love/hate Linux rant.)

            If you want to change the language back, you should be able to do the following steps:

            1. Open the new windows 10 settings thing. If typing "settings" in the search box won't access it for you because of the language change, try using the quick tools menu. Press windows+x, which should pull up a menu of some more useful tools. Settings should be sixth from the bottom. Second from the bottom is a submenu with shutdown options, so settings is four above that.

            If that doesn't work, try to use the command prompt. The system settings executable is well-hidden. First, cd into

            c:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\SIH\bin\cbs

            Then, try any subdirectory of there. Hopefully, you're like me and you just have one subdirectory. Once you've entered it, you need to enter another subdirectory. It starts with "amd64_microsoft-windows-i..ntrolpanel." and includes some numbers, so enter that much and press tab for the rest. Then, try to run the command "start systemsettings.exe". Hopefully, you'll never need to do that.

            2. Select "Time and Language" from the settings screen. On build 1709, it's the third element of five on the second row. On 1607, it's the one in the middle (second row, second column).

            3. Select "Region and Language". That is the second of three.

            4. This screen should have a list of languages, all of which are written in their own script, so your desired one should be available.

            5. After clicking it, if it is not set as ddefault, there should be three buttons. The first one is the one to set as default, so click that.

            6. At that point, you may want to click the other language and remove it from the system.

            If these instructions are not helpful enough, you can describe what has happened and I'll try to correct them. Otherwise, I believe I have a friend who speaks Slovak, so she may be able to help me provide exact translations of UI elements you will need on your way.

            1. Barry Rueger Silver badge

              Re: Try Linux. - Or DON'T! (My love/hate Linux rant.)

              @doublelayer

              If you want to change the language back, you should be able to do the following steps:

              I'm trying to find time to jump down that rabbit hole. It's truly bizarre. She enabled another keyboard briefly to type in an eastern European composer's name with the appropriate diacritical marks. I believe she changed it back to US English, as that's what the little widget in the tray says it's set to.

              What baffles me is why changing the keyboard language would change some (but not all) of the application names in the Start Menu, and cause some (but not all) applications to operate entirely in Slovak. Logic says it would either change the entire OS to the new language, or just leave it alone.

              1. doublelayer

                Re: Try Linux. - Or DON'T! (My love/hate Linux rant.)

                The language indication in the task bar refers only to the language of the keyboard at the time. It is possible that, while enabling the Slovak keyboard, the Slovak language pack was downloaded too and set as default. I'm not sure why that could set only some of the labels, but it's the best theory I can think of for the result.

            2. Barry Rueger Silver badge

              Re: Try Linux. - Or DON'T! (My love/hate Linux rant.)

              @doublelayer And here's where the problem came from:

              Windows, apps, and websites will appear in the first language in the list that they support.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Try Linux. - Or DON'T! (My love/hate Linux rant.)

            Linux nowadays, sucks.. hardware support, power management and os bloat now.

            Dev's dont care.

            Mac is increasingly bloated & privacy buggering & data slurping, getting filled with unwanted daemons & bloat

            Windows *always* was, apart from the Win 3 era

        5. jerryboam
          Linux

          Re: Try Linux. - Or DON'T! (My love/hate Linux rant.)

          At last, another reader with balls.

          Linux is crap, I have installed every version since I started in the industry and although I worked for some time with Ubuntu 9 it regularly fell apart and required rebuilding.

          I have only ever supported one company using non-Windows PC's and I fired them at the start of last year as they turned into Time Bandits requiring more and more support as the OS caused loads of problems also Windows users do not like or get on with Linux (or anything non-Windows).

          If it wasn't for the Real Ale drinking, Windows hating old farts out there these fringe OS's would have died the natural death decades ago (the down vote button is below).

          Just thought I would add my opinion.

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