back to article Facebook want us to believe banning Putin's troll army safeguards Russian democracy

Facebook’s No Good, Horrible, Very Bad Year continues , with The Social Network™ enduring another day of explaining its own errors. The day started with Founder Mark Zuckerberg posting new of “an important step to protect the integrity of elections around the world” that he pitched as among “our techniques to stay ahead”. But …

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Continuing to serve its function

It's nice. Facebook continues to serve its function of rigging elections. It is so nice and heart-warming to see that it has taken a corrective action to ensure that WE CAN RIG elections and the ENEMY cannot. How wonderfully democratic and impartial.

How about taking the same action on any CA, SCL and brethren material today and from now to eternity, you lizzard c*nt?

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Re: Continuing to serve its function

The ENEMY has already had their elections, so it was a bit late anyway.

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Anonymous Coward

So what happens when you're travelling outside the EU?

Are we going to end up with a National Security 'type exception': Where there's no slurping of Americans, unless they're talking to foreigners, then its ok etc. Will Facebook sell out Europeans in much the same way? Or as long as the account was originally opened inside the EU that will take precedence. I put this question to the Irish DPC. Helen Dixon seems articulate in the media. But the front line staff have all had their brains removed by Zuck's security staff: Chanting you must contact Facebook!

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Re: So what happens when you're travelling outside the EU?

So what happens when you're travelling outside the EU?

You really believe they're not pimping your data from inside the EU?

FB is a US tech company, and sadly, big tech is like big finance - anything is permitted regardless of what the laws actually say, until they're successfully prosecuted. And even then they'll prevaricate, appeal, obfuscate, deny - and subsequently they'll continue, just using a legal loophole, or a similar but as-yet-unprosecuted misbehaviour.

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Re: So what happens when you're travelling outside the EU?

"Where there's no slurping of Americans, unless they're talking to foreigners"

Make no mistake, there is no effective exception for US citizens. We're subject to just as much slurping as you. More, with the GDPR.

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Anonymous Coward

Yet another...

...example of the left wing media failing to realise that they're out of touch with the people, and continuing to blame imaginary 'right-wing' plots.

They are well on their way to their aim of erasing all right wing infirmation from the web....

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Anonymous Coward

Yet another...

...example of the right wing media failing to realise that they're out of touch with the people, and continuing to blame imaginary 'left-wing' plots.

They are well on their way to their aim of erasing all left wing infirmation from the web....

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Re: Yet another...

So... you count the Guardian as right-wing?

Looking at the voting, I see that the process is working, with many of the sheep obiediently voting down any suggestion that political balance should be allowed....

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" Zuckerberg told Reuters that Facebook has no plans to apply the European Union’s General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) to users beyond Europe’s borders."

So: Zuck does apply this EU law to the whole of Europe? In post-Brexit Britain, should you just trust him on that?

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Paris Hilton

And it's not about who the users are - their nationality or their location. It's about where the data is.

Does he understand that?

Paris, cos she'll cause them no end of confusion.

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"Does he understand that?"

I suspect Facebook's lawyers understand GDPR better than almost anyone else's, and know which loopholes they intend to stretch and which they can tie up the courts for decades.

For the record, it isn't "about where the data" are. It covers EU legal entities processing data on US citizens in the US and US entities processing data on EU citizens in the US.

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"Lastly, Zuckerberg told Reuters that Facebook has no plans to apply the European Union’s General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) to users beyond Europe’s borders."

Good. Is this a surprise and if so why? I hope he is making the common mistake of calling the EU Europe so anyone outside the EU isnt subjected to it although I expect we will unfortunately end up keeping it in the UK.

Why Facebook would apply limitations from one jurisdiction in others that dont have such limitations would give competitors the advantage in those other jurisdictions.

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For the record, it isn't "about where the data" are. It covers EU legal entities processing data on US citizens in the US and US entities processing data on EU citizens in the US.

Cheers for that. Have become a bit out of touch since I stopped working.

That last bit intrigues. Are we really saying that EU legislation will apply to US entities processing data in the US? How do we enforce that?

Don't we spend a lot of time in Register comments slagging off the US for trying to impose their laws on the rest of the world?

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If your multi national has assets in the EU then the fines can be enforced, as they were against Microsoft and Google. Facebook pushes €5bn ish through the EU so it's not a trivial risk.

Enforcing against Lady Luck Casino, Mississippi is going to be tricky, but they probably don't get a huge number of European visitors.

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ha

I notice a lot of downvotes against my comment. I wonder how many of those downvoters apply the limitations from other jurisdictions like China for example. Or the muslim world with their decency laws? N.Korea? Why not?

Why does Mc Donalds sell non-beef substitutes in jurisdictions where eating beef may be illegal or extremely looked down on, but yet sell beef in the rest of the world? If you wont supply then a competitor will because people want it.

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Zuckerberg did tell the newswire that Facebook is “still nailing down details on this, but it should directionally be, in spirit, the whole thing”. Whatever that means

It means he'll get caught out several times breaking the letter of the law, and each time he'll say "oops, sorry, that was a mistake, we'll fix that real soon now". Eventually, over several years and fines, he'll get dragged kicking and screaming to GDPR compliance but it means he'll be able to slurp for a good while yet.

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Don't forget Zuckerberg unloading his controlling interest/full voting shares over the years. Let some sucker buy those up.

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Getting tired of the whole "anti Russia" campaign

Don't get me wrong here: I'm not claiming Russia is a completely misunderstood nation where everything is as it should be. But I am growing extremely tired of the constant display of double morales and the plain out bias against Russia. No, their government may not be perfect, but can you really say the ones in the "free" West are?

I mean... When Putin gets (re)elected you can pretty much be sure what his line of thought will be and his vision to rule the country. Here in the West we often get told that we should vote for "Party A" because they plan on doing Y. Which is important and therefor deserves our vote. Yet once they do manage to find themselves elected it's not uncommon for them to do a 180 degree turn and apply the unpopular Z instead. Because yeah, things change and all. I call that plain out lying in order to get into office, but... obviously they will never take action against that because it seems everyone is doing it.

So how exactly is this "democratic system" any more fair in comparison with that of Russia, hmm?

Oh, I know: Russia is bad because they annexed the Krim (a part of the Ukraine where everyone spoke Russian in the first place anyway). Of course we'll just ignore the US false flag invasion of Iraq and pretty much ruling the whole country by force.

Or think about the last incident in England: they were sure that the Russian intelligence had performed an assassination with nerve gas. The British government has even removed several Russian diplomats. And now there's the result of the investigation of said nerve gas and what a shock: there is no hard evidence that the gas originated from Russia at all.

I mean... What we're seeing here is that if someone shoots someone else with an AK47 ("Kalashnikov") then there will be plenty of politicians who will immediately blame Russia because it's obvious that they were behind it given the Russian origin of the weapon. How is that any fair?

To me this whole Facebook campaign is merely another chapter in the Russian hate campaign and I really hope it backfires. This is merely (ab)using the constant negative bias against Russia in hopes of scoring one for your own.

Once again: I'm not claiming Russia is the perfectly innocent misunderstood country. But I also think they do not deserve this constantly ongoing hate campaign. All based on speculations, rumors and "what if's".

Heck, if you think Russia is bad go look at some South African countries. Not only are they usually ruled with an iron fist (meaning: it's not uncommon to get shot dead without any form of trial "because"), they also often let the population starve to death because it's easier to control them. While the rules live in luxurious mansions the general population merely tries to get enough food on the table every single day.

Yet we're not talking any action against that. Naah, instead we'll sent them tons of money every once in a while so that the rulers become even MORE wealthy. Hmm, maybe we can blame that on the Russians as well?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Getting tired of the whole "anti Russia" campaign

Two sides to your comment:

1 - agree that Russia is sort of doing what it says it does - apart from subverting a boatload of events in countries it has no business messing with. I put China in that category as well: it too has never claimed to be a democracy, nor (I suspect) will it be. Digressing slightly, if I look at the US I am reminded of the saying that democracy is three wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner so any claims of better/worse can only be viewed in the light of what it does to the man/woman in the street.

2 - that said, the whatabouterism ("other countries are so much worse") doesn't help your core argument and actually tears it down. Also, the hate impression is partly in your mind. What the media says <-> what intelligent people end up thinking. The general let's-wreck-the-educational-systems-so-they-stay-dumb population, yes, but not someone who has a wider view on the matter and is used to mine the facts from underneath the BS.

Just my two (Euro)cents.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Getting tired of the whole "anti Russia" campaign

You are Jeremy Corbyns secret lovechild and I claim my 5 pounds.

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WTF?

Re: "a part of the Ukraine where everyone spoke Russian in the first place anyway"

Are you seriously saying that since everyone spoke Russian it's no big deal that Russia annexed that part of Ukraine ?

You do realize that, with that argument, you've just justified Hitler annexing Austria and Poland ?

Why not have Mexico annex southern California, Nevada and a large part of Texas then ? After all, plenty of people speaking Mexican down there.

And claiming that some other countries are "worse" does not justify leaving Russia alone. That's like saying that a rapist should be let go because there are murderers on the loose.

Sorry, but I cannot accept your level of bias for Putin.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "a part of the Ukraine where everyone spoke Russian in the first place anyway"

Wow, a thread that hits Hitler only 3 comments in. Is that a record?

:)

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Re: Getting tired of the whole "anti Russia" campaign

There has to be some big bad, preferably foriegn, to point at and get everybody to hate / be afraid of. Even better if there are several, makes it easier to keep the population distracted from their own big bads that are in control.

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Re: "a part of the Ukraine where everyone spoke Russian in the first place anyway"

Not to arouse the wrath of Godwin, but the man has a point on the inference from language to sovereignty.

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Re: Getting tired of the whole "anti Russia" campaign

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Re: Getting tired of the whole "anti Russia" campaign

You are Jeremy Corbyns secret lovechild and I claim my 5 pounds.

Save it for the Daily Mail letters page.

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Anonymous Coward

"since everyone spoke Russian"

Especially since Russia worked hard for "russification" of non-Russian countries it annexed - through deporting locals, favoring Russian immigration - especially in the better areas, forcing the use of Russian language and alphabet, and Russian culture in schools.

Countries like the Baltic Republics and Moldova returned quickly to their languages as soon as they became independent. In Ukraine there has been a resurgence of the use of Ukrainian.

Anyway there are German speaking areas in Italy (which Mussolini tried hard to force to use Italian...), there are Italian speaking people in Switzerland and in the Balkans (those who survived the ethnic purges there as well...), France should ask to get Quebec, and so on. If we start to justify invasions because of languages, it could become a quite dangerous world...

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Anonymous Coward

After all, plenty of people speaking Mexican down there.

You mean the parts of Mexico that the USofA annexed?

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what has Zuckerberg done to upset the 5th estate so?

I thought you all loved his loony left wing policies and using Snoopes (HAHAH YES) as a fact checking source?

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LDS
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He's keeping on playing the "Good Boy with a Big Dream who makes little mistakes on the way"

I understand his attempts. He knows he's sitting, like a dragon, on a treasure of personal data, which nasty government "dwarfs" (from his point of view) could attempt to remove and leave him in an empty cave full of the screams of the souls of the people he "connected".

So he's trying to sell the image of a "good boy", a sort of messiah/prophet with the dream of "connecting people" - whatever it means - and without anybody questioning if and why people need Facebook to connect, and if the required price is fair (and without remembering people connected well before Facebook...)

He's also trying to deflect any inquiry about his business model, trying to pretend every issue is just a naive mistake, a good faith one, a fixable one, of course, and not deeply, fundamental issues of the business model, being Facebook being built from the ground up to collect, process and sell user data, where "connections" are just a useful tool to expand the business and collect even more data.

He's also applying some sort of religious-like propaganda to his business (nothing new, look at Scientology), he's really working to improve mankind, forgive him for the false steps... you'll find true happiness at the end of the journey.... you just need to wait and let him work and realise his dream - without of course any unkind regulation about people personal data... he'll take care of any issue and take the burden on his shoulders, don't worry.

One of the biggest problems are the people who believe him.

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Re: He's keeping on playing the "Good Boy with a Big Dream who makes little mistakes on the way"

I'm going to upvote you for sheer sarcasm alone :)

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Useless actions

I think that when an orgaization - any organization - grows to the size of Facebook (or Google, or whomever) and has such a low threshold to access it becomes impossible to protect or control, especially against single minded individuals or small groups that have but one single purpose : pervert the organization for their own gain.

For the same reason essentially that it is impossible for security forces to protect us from a porson or small group that is willing to do anything whatsoever to cause havoc publicly.

Whatever Zuckerberg says or does, he will always be chasing his own tail. It will never be enough.

The only way a network can be made remotely safe is for its users to become vigilant. And let's be honest, the majority doesn't give a hoot. Either by choice or incompetence.

Pete

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Re: Useless actions

The problem with Facebook is it's not just a messaging/sharing platform - it gives - and sell - the tools to search for and aim at given targets.

When they spam, they have no idea who will receive your emails, at least. With Facebook, you can look for the desired victims and look at their data to mount the best attack - and not only for propaganda. Not all "connections" are desirable.

Nobody thinks a phone company is culpable if thieves or terrorists call each other - but a phone company should not track user data, and besides a simple phone book, should not let you search people by age, gender, etc. etc. (although some of them actually sold the data they had)

And even phone books were for a more trustful age - years ago for example I started to ask the address to be removed, until I removed the phone number altogether.

I understand their actions are useless, because Facebook is flawed from the roots. It's a huge database of people, and nobody should build, own and use one. Even government records can't be so detailed, and accessible.

Facebook can remove the data hoarding, search and targeting tools and become just a simple messaging platform - it could even still show ads, without the targeting - but it won't be so appealing to its customers anymore.

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Anonymous Coward

"Whatever that means."

Yes, a master of the art of not communicating. It's understandable though: when he says something where people can actually grasp his meaning, it is never good for Mr Zuckerberg or Facebook.

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Gotta hand it to him for consistency

Zuckerberg carries on treating everyone like they're idiots.

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Marketing 101 here...

Zuckerberg did tell the newswire that Facebook is “still nailing down details on this, but it should directionally be, in spirit, the whole thing”.

I'm reminded of this: "So if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit." Well played, Zuck.

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Facepalm

Re: Marketing 101 here...

I think it's safe to say anything f*ckberg says is bullshit

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