Of all places
I wonder how someone managed to bring in a firearm to such a place? California, I believe, still is the state with the strictest gun laws.
What has to happen for people to stop wanting to kill one another? :(
A woman armed with a handgun shot three people at the headquarters of YouTube today, police say. She was later found dead seemingly after turning the gun on herself. The shooting happened just before 1pm Pacific Time at the video-sharing giant's offices in San Bruno, California, the city's cops confirmed to El Reg. San …
Is there anything stopping someone legally buying something like an AR-15 (insert over-powered gun of choice instead) in one state then driving to California to use it? I'm assuming there are a bunch of laws against possession of said weapon in CA, but if they're intending to shoot up people with it, those laws aren't really going to stop them....
One of the problems with the gun laws is that they vary by state. So if the laws are slowing you down just go to the state next door and come back with whatever you need.
It really needs to be regulated at the federal level. And then start making it harder to own guns, make open carry illegal and concealed carry highly restricted. If you want to carry a gun there has to be a real need, not just that you are too much of a coward to go to McDonalds unless you're packing a Glock.
Slowly over time the number of guns will go down. The number of gun owners is already dropping as they die of old age, but we can speed up the process by destroying any weapon used in a crime, whether or not it was obtained legally.
> It really needs to be regulated at the federal level.
It seems unlikely there's enough balls / political willpower to make significant regulation at federal level; even something as simple as raising the minimum age.
But if states make their own rulings, then there's at least a possibility that the status quo can change over time - witness legalisation of pot. I believe different states already have different rules on things like concealed weapons.
"As evidenced here and elsewhere, tough gun laws, gun-free zones, etc. won't stop this stuff."
There is in fact lots of evidence that tough gun laws do stop this stuff. For instance Australia made many firearms illegal and removed them from circulation. And there was a substantial reduction in gun crime and gun related homicides. And no more mass shootings to date.
New Zealand on the other hand didn't follow Australia down the retard pants-shitting path after our Port Arthor equivilent. And despite all the AR15s around (and they are readily available to anyone with a basic firearms license), we have ... a lower murder rate than Australia per 100,000 people. Even with Australia sending back to NZ anyone who ever looked cross-eyed at a police officer and wasn't born there.
California is next door to Arizona, which has pretty lax gun laws. Mass shootings aren't a crime of opportunity, but one of planning, so driving across a state line to get the gun(s) you want isn't a burden since this isn't likely something one decides to do at the spur of the moment.
Wrong. Australia banned (except for a very few limited circumstances) semi-automatic weapons - and regularly engages in pants-shitting over "modern" technology like lever-action.
NZ on the other hand has not banned semi-autos. A basic firearms license (which has always been required) is all that is needed.
Except the amendments that have been repealed have all been things that you can't do (eg, prohibition), or making slaves free and such like that.
The Bill of Rights don't give you the rights. The Bill of Rights explicitly state that the rights are something that you're born with. The amendments are to tell the government what they CAN'T do with those rights. So repealing the 2nd doesn't exactly take those rights away. It would unshackle the government though, sure.
Then, one Thursday, nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change, one girl sitting on her own in a small cafe in Rickmansworth suddenly realized what it was that had been going wrong all this time, and she finally knew how the world could be made a good and happy place.
This time it was right, it would work, and no one would have to get nailed to anything.
Mass shootings are only the most visible gun problem, the other 10k+ that die each year at the wrong end of a gun are an even bigger problem
This is all part of reducing the overall number of guns in circulation. You can't just go around confiscating everyone's guns, so it has to be made less desirable and more difficult to won one.If you can't carry one and need to have it unloaded and locked up at home with the ammo in a separate locked location then many people will just not bother to own one. If you're a hunter this won't be a problem as you shouldn't be leaving your gun around the house loaded.
Now the NRA nuts are just going to say that this won't help since criminals don't obey laws. Well of course that is a stupid argument as by that logic all laws are pointless. But as guns become more scarce, their value on the street will rise, and so fewer criminals will be able to get their hands on them.
The USA has something like half the guns on the planet, that is the root problem. Though if you are an idiot from the NRA you would say you need more guns because "more guns will make everyone safer". If that were even remotely true then with 300+ million guns the USA would be the safest place on earth.
Let's keep in mind that the NRA isn't a club for all the good ol' guys who have playing with guns as a harmless hobby. It's an industry lobby body primarily representing companies that make more profit the more guns are sold. This made it worth their while, for example, to donate $30M to Trump's campaign. Not, of course, that they would expect to influence future laws by doing so. Of course not. They were just being kind and generous to fellow human beings.
What has to happen for people to stop wanting to kill one another? :(
That'll never happen. Humans will always find a reason to kill each other. Whether it is religion, politics or just plain fun we will always kill each other.
We have killed each other since we learned how to thousands of years ago and it is not going to change any time soon.
Sad but true.
Excerpts from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_licence_(New_Zealand) with comments:
"Licences are issued at the discretion of the police. The possession of firearms is considered a privilege, rather than a right."
So, already far stricter than the USA.
"The "general" (or "type A") licence gives permission to own and use "sporting configuration" firearms. A sporting configuration firearm is a rifle or shotgun that does not meet the legal definition of any of a Military-Style Semi-Automatic (MSSA)"
Directly contradicts your assertion that AR15s are available to anyone with a basic license.
Can any Kiwis around here confirm whether GrumpyKiwi or Wikipedia is right on this?
RE: "Is there anything stopping someone legally buying something like an AR-15 (insert over-powered gun of choice instead) in one state then driving to California to use it? "
I live in Tennessee. Tennessee is known as the state that likes to shoot stuff. I live in a semi rural area and regularly hear what sound to be automatic weapons being fired somewhere in the woods around here. The neighbours shot guns in the air the night that Trump was elected. I have seen the most ridiculous guns being sold at a local flea market, no checks at all being applied. As long as there are states like this no amount of controls in other states will make the slightest difference anywhere. You better not diss me, now: I can git guns!
Here in Canada you cannot just walk in and buy an assault gun over the counter at your local Walmart store. That seems to solve a lot of problems.
In fact, the Canadian government is currently tightening laws (or may have happened already) to reintroduce licencing registration after the supreme court, for some bizarre reason, shot it down in 2012 (pun intended). Guns seem fun, I would be up for trying them at a shooting range, but as far as I'm concerned they should be something drug gangs (to be used only against other gangs, please), farmers and hunters buy solely.
"One of the problems with the gun laws is that they vary by state. So if the laws are slowing you down just go to the state next door and come back with whatever you need."
No, the problem with gun laws is that only people who actually respect the law will follow it, the rest will continue to do whatever they like.
I say that because I happen to live in a country (Holland) where weapons are outlawed. Not merely guns, even if you have a baseball bat sitting at a funny spot in your store (for self protection) then you still risk the police fining you because it's illegal to own any kind of weapon. In the surrounding countries (Belgium, Germany, Luxembourg) weapons are also illegal, all under a European law.
Yet that doesn't stop shooting incidents from happening. And decently frequent too. Only last Thursday did the country get shocked (yet again) because a store owner got killed during an intake meeting.
Gun legislation is fun and all, but these kind of shooters didn't care about the law in the first place. Also: take away the guns and people will find something else to use. Not to mention that this also makes it much easier to use fake guns and pretend their real. I mean, if the store you're trying to rob follows up to its reputation of being law abiding then you can be sure that they don't own any guns. Easy taking!
And as this incident shows ones again: there are many fruitcakes roaming the streets. And I, as a regular citizen in Holland, am not allowed to defend myself if I have to. Which I think is messed up.
Is there anything stopping someone legally buying something like an AR-15 (insert over-powered gun of choice instead) in one state then driving to California to use it?
No it's OK to do that, just as long as you don't try and smuggle an apple or peach over the state line you're just fine.
"the problem with gun laws is that only people who actually respect the law will follow it, the rest will continue to do whatever they like."
Making guns hard to get and imprisoning those that own them illegally massively reduces that problem.
"And decently frequent too."
Gun crime in Holland is still way lower than in the US.
"And I, as a regular citizen in Holland, am not allowed to defend myself "
Because statistics show owning a gun makes you MORE likely to die from gun violence! And of course it's ownership of guns that exacerbates the problem in the first place.
Whereas on HackerNews a news title quickly got renamed to "Google maps shows location of San Bruno shooting" and flagged (=hidden): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16749434
Next was a news title "Woman opens fire at YouTube headquarters (www.msn.com)" that got quickly deleted by the admins: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16750944
And another news popped up "Suspect in YouTube Shooting Posted Rants About the Company Online": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16751608
Ummm...they have snow plows. The freeways are passable much of the winter. The Donner party had conestoga wagons and no heaters.
Reno is not really that far away from the SF area given it's a popular venue for gambling.
There are folks living in the mountains and in the central valley that need firearms to deal with coyotes or mountain lions. In the sierra nevada mountains, while living there, it was common to encounter ne'er-do-wells who counted on the sheriff being 30-50 minutes away.
they also educate people on how not to blow their own heads off (assuming that isn't the idea) and educate folks who need it in self-protection. Believe it or not, there are many, many people not living in large cities with dangerous animals or people around and the closest law-enforcement officer(s) at least 30 minutes away.
"Lots of evidence"
Really because lots of "facts" prove that it doesnt do one bit of difference.
People in Australia and Britain like to say stuff like that "we havent had an issue since"
Thing is... it was never an issue to start with.
Here in Britain we had ONE incident that was a complete and utter failure of the state (police force) to enforce the rules that were already in place and then everyone else had to loose their rights to defend themselves.
The result was a 20 year peak of violent gun crime in the UK which had never been seen before, to which we are only now just dropped back to where they were before the ban. net result = zero - we are no safer than we were before.
In fact we are probably worse off, since we HAVE to relay on the Benny Hill Police who seem more interested in policing twitter and youtube for wrong think rather than go after actual criminals because their skin might be a different colour.
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