back to article Windows 10 to force you to use Edge, even if it isn't default browser

Microsoft’s about to test a new feature of Windows 10 that will force users to employ its Edge browser under some circumstances. Revealed in the announcement of Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 17623 for Skip Ahead, the change means “we will begin testing a change where links clicked on within the Windows Mail app will open in …

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Fucking idiots

It's like the 90s never happened.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Fucking idiots

"The Register imagines few comments Redmond receives will be printable." FTFY

You see, outside of Redmond "the 90s happened."

Inside of Redmond, the unicorns all have Rosa Klebb horseshoes, dead eyes, and those horns are forever giving n*z* salutes.

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Re: Fucking idiots

AFAIR I changed the Desktop Background to a nerve-relaxing darkgreen with tiles showing in black I hate Microsoft - I hate Microsoft - I hate Microsoft in five-pixel high microfont for every Microsoft Windows® PC where I could do that.

MS gave me always the feeling I had only a teaspoon to hammer a nail in a wall, where UX gave me a toolkit with the lightest and most elegant tools to a sledgehammer.

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Bronze badge

Look on the bright side.

We can party like it's 1999 and 9/11 hasn't happened yet.

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Re: Fucking idiots

funnily enough people have no problem giving Apple a pass for doing exactly this same shit throughout iOS - you can't choose your mapping app, your browser, your mail app, your calendar etc. And because of this Microsoft starts to think it's okay to inch back to forcing users into using their second rate apps because Apple has got away with that behaviour for so long.

I use full-fat Outlook (because the Win10 inbox mail app is a half-arsed mess) and will be seriously grumpy if they start hijacking links there to point to Edge instead of my default Brave ... at the end of the day I don't care about what browser I actually use, but I want the one that keeps my history etc in sync and has a UI that doesn't suck... Edge ain't that.

So... yes it sucks MS are doing this, but if we're going to get outraged there let's make sure Apple also feel which way the wind blows

https://medium.com/@offbeatmammal/apple-are-a-design-company-so-why-is-ios-so-annoying-d40530dce8d9

(and no, this still won't usher in the era of desktop Linux. For all the great advances that have been made in the last few years it's still not the no-brain install that Windows is for the vast majority of users)

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Pint

Re: Fucking idiots

Have a pint OffBeatMammal

exactly my point on here, Microsoft does it - out come the penguins on a rant

anyone else does it - silence

and yes, no year of Linux on the desktop - thank goodness - Id hate to have to consult the whining masses when I have a tricky issue, esp. one that involves integration in a Microsoft environment

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Fucking idiots

Agreed, Apple should also be called to answer on bundling and tying of products and services.

It's not going to happen in trump America, where both companies have protected status. However the EU should really be investigating both companies for this.

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Silver badge

Re: Fucking idiots

Well there is a difference, if they hadn't announced it I doubt anyone would have noticed, even so it's the thin end of the wedge.

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Re: Fucking idiots

> exactly my point on here, Microsoft does it - out come the penguins on a rant

> anyone else does it - silence

Incorrect - they are all taking the piss. Apple on iOS. MS with their apps (Cortana, now Mail, etc). Google with things like Hangouts.

All are user-hostile decisions.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: people have no problem giving Apple a pass for doing exactly this same shit

Well, for me at least there is a difference - notably, I've never been forced to use an Apple product, but have been forced to use MS ones.

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Anonymous Coward

"no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

Apple provide iOS installed an hardware they make.

Microsoft provide a generic OS that can be installed on any (compatible) hardware.

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Re: Fucking idiots

> funnily enough people have no problem giving Apple a pass for doing exactly this same shit throughout iOS

Apple iOS is a walled garden. Apple iOS has always been a walled garden. If you buy Apple iOS products you know this and chose it, so it should be no surprise that it is a walled garden. If you build apps to run on Apple iOS products you know this and chose to build the app anyway.

Microsoft Windows used to be a general-purpose OS that let you install and run whatever software you want, and customize how you want. Microsoft provided some default apps to get you started, which ranged from low-quality but works for the basics (e.g. Notepad) to some okay apps (e.g. the Explorer file manager, Calculator, Internet Explorer, the Start Menu / Taskbar). But you could always customize it and choose what apps you want to use, including replacing all the built-in apps with better competitors. People built competitors to all the built-in apps.

Microsoft are retroactively changing it, after people have bought it, so you're forced to use the MS web browser. People did not agree to this when they bought Windows. People did not know this when they invested significant money in building competing browsers.

"I'm altering the deal ... pray I don't alter it any further".

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bex

Re: Fucking idiots

Microsoft has a history of not listening and shooting themselves in the foot. The Initial release of Vista and Windows 8 show they do the "la la la I'm not listening" fingers in the ears trick.

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Big Brother

Re: Fucking idiots

The 90s happened; what’s less clear is whether Microsoft actively erases them from its employees’ memories or whether there’s simply nobody left who remembers them…

(There are notable exceptions such as Raymond Chen and probably a handful of others, but they are unlikely to have much influence over product strategy.)

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FAIL

Re: Fucking idiots It's like the 90s never happened.

There are still (in 2018) places and things that basically fail without Edge (or IE) to run properly.

Unf**kingbelievable.

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Silver badge

Re: Fucking idiots

Penguin on a Rant?

exactly my point on here, Microsoft does it - out come the penguins on a rant

What, apple do it on their expensive phone?

The iphone may be the most well-known, but not the de-facto standard interface for phones the way Windows is for desktops.

Penguins are often required to use Windows more often than IOS in work or friend/family support, so Microsofts stupid decisions affect us too.

We don't always come out to put the boot in MS merely for sadism alone you know...

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Re: Fucking idiots

Apple users are Apple users. They do what their told! (and they like it!).

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Re: Apple a pass

One is a gadget, a phone, a tablet.

The other is now primarily used for content creation and legacy applications.

There are alternatives to iPhone/iPad, it has less than 15% of it's market. MS Windows is the dominant OS for laptops & desktop computers, especially in business. Many people feel they have no alternative due to Sage, Payroll, CRM, Adobe high end packages etc.

Not comparable.

I already found that "Current" Firefox builds can be Win10 default browser, but even an updated Firefox 52ESR can't be set as default.

Also Edge isn't even a "proper" desktop application. Even if the most secure today, it may be incompatible or insecure tomorrow. It also breaks easily if Windows Firewall or Store settings are changed.

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Flame

Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

No. Apple do not get a free pass from me. They are an appalling bunch of lawyer loving crooks who give MS wet dreams about locking down their users.

My response - never buy from Apple, don't recommend Apple and point out that Apple phones are no better than Samsung, OnePlus etc but do include the standard Apple "gullibility tax".

No. Apple does not get a pass.

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Stop

Re: Fucking idiots

It's like the 90s never happened.

For the pointy-haired MBA-toting millennials that are now in charge at MS, the 90's literally didn't happen, because they were still in nappies when Netscape was suing Microsoft.

They'll learn.

Maybe.

This made me laugh out loud:

"...Edge is the best, most secure browser on Windows 10."

Err... Right... Okay then...

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Re: Fucking idiots

Exactly why the best decision I ever made was buying my Ex-Wife an Apple device.

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Re: Fucking idiots -AGREED

I dislike IE and Edge so much that I have used the program control feature of Norton Internet Security to block them from all internet access. I can not stop M$ from putting insecure internet browsers on my PC but I can stop them from being used.

Any browser that has Adobe Flash is insecure - and M$ has built it in!!!

(I also use Thunderbird rather than any M$ or browser based email client.)

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Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

> Microsoft provide a generic OS that can be installed on any (compatible) hardware.

The important word here is CAN - nobody makes people use Windows - choose from at least four other 'OSs' that work on PCs, one from Apple (macOS?), Linux, ChromeOS (sort of), Android (sort of).

As we keep hearing here, Windows is not mandatory anymore, if one doesn't like it, choose an alternative.

If your company makes you use it, it is no different to being forced to use a locked-down PC or a 'special' phone or an old piece of kit you hate, it is part of your job and you decide if it is enough o make you look elsewhere.

For the masses with 'No Choice', they won't give a shit either way, they know nothing about Browser wars, OSs or anything else, stuff just changes and they carry on or ask for help.

Personally, I find Edge doesn't massacre my memory and loads pages fast, both things that matter more to me than OS politics.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

Apple do the exact same thing as Microsoft here

Huge difference: People choose to use Apple.

(I chose not to - I chose choice)

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Silver badge

Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

Apple provide iOS installed an hardware they make.

Microsoft provide a generic OS that can be installed on any (compatible) hardware.

You can only get iOS if you buy Apple's HW. MS SW comes on almost everything else. MS also have contracts with just about every other HW manufacturer making it difficult for them to supply non-Window's systems, so it is very difficult to buy a non Apple PC without being forced to buy Windows. MS are considered to be a monopoly and as such are expected to behave in ways minority players aren't. The EU has in the past forced MS to give users a choice about browsers, they then quietly forgot and the EU quietly forgot to enforce the ruling until it became public that there was an issue and they were chided back into action.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Fucking idiots

> Apple users are Apple users. They do what their told! (and they like it!).

Apple users enjoy paying to do as they're told :-)

Hey it takes all sorts to make a world and who am I to judge.

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Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

> As we keep hearing here, Windows is not mandatory anymore, if one doesn't like it, choose an alternative.

OK so you get a choice of which OS to use but you don't have a choice of which OS you have to pay for. It is very difficult to buy most PC HW without paying for a W10 license. There are also issues with the FW being reluctant to run other OSes.

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Re: Fucking idiots

Unfortunately the Microsoft marketing drones missed a word in the sentence...

"...Edge is the best, most secure [Microsoft] browser on Windows 10."

This is not aiming high.

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WTF?

Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

Huge difference: People choose to use Apple.

Or they choose to use MS. What's the difference?

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Re: Fucking idiots

"people have no problem giving Apple a pass for doing exactly this same shit throughout iOS"

If I were forced to use iOS, I certainly wouldn't give Apple a pass on this. But I'm not. I am, however, forced to use Windows.

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Silver badge

Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

"Windows is not mandatory anymore"

Can you please tell that to my employer?

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Re: Fucking idiots

The EU did investigate both of them some time ago. That's where the mandatory browser selection screen came from. And a few years back when they investigated Apple, they decided that Apple didn't have a big enough market share to worry about possible monopoly abuse. If you don't like iOs forcing you to use inferior apps, don't get an iOs based device.

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Meh

Re: Fucking idiots

Speaking as a Penguin who also owns Apple and Windows kit (as well as an old copy of OS/2 in the back of a cupboard), I personally don't care that much. I can see why antitrust people might care, however, as it is an attempt to leverage their position to distort a market.

Apple's iOS stance is basically around security, and not wanting battery/space munching web rendering engines loaded on iOS when theirs is already painful enough, thank you. And they might support Flash too, which would be worse.

Fun fact: Adobe Flash comes pre-installed on Windows 10 and you can't remove it without butchering the system. Given that you can remove that small slice of purgatory that is OneDrive from Programs & Features, I wonder how much Adobe are paying for that little privilege?

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Linux

Re: Fucking idiots

...this still won't usher in the era of desktop Linux....

No, and I long ago gave up crusading for same; I'll be happy if there are enough of us Linux desktop users to at least keep it relevant. But as a Linux desktop user - quite a few years now in personal life, albeit work keeps me in Win7 - it is pieces like this that make me smile. We penguinheads may never conquer the universe, but it's still a nice little smug corner of it in which we reside, not only shrugging off most (not all) of the malware that's floating around, but also shrugging off Microsoft (and Apple) making decisions for us whether we like/want them or not.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Fucking idiots -AGREED

"I dislike IE and Edge so much that I have used the program control feature of Norton Internet Security to block them" - you still use Norton? Wow, I lived to see this in 2018...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

"If your company makes you use it....it is part of your job and you decide if it is enough o make you look elsewhere."

I have to wonder if you are actually employed. No, it is not part of my job to use a browser forced on me by Microsoft.

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Windows

Re: Fucking idiots

Surely, a better decision would have been to get her to buy her own Apple device?

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Linux

"Outlook has six per cent"

That's six percent too many.

OTOH, I'm not exactly moving with the times myself either. I begrudge using Thunderbird because it feels overengineered and bloated, but it's my "lazy" option. I prefer Claws, which TBH is just as easy to set up. I've been known to use Emacs Gnus on more than one occasion. I'm probably most comfortable with Mutt.

If the market share for Windows Mail (or whatever name Microsoft has given it this week) is a small fraction of 1%, I dread to think how Thunderbird is faring, and for me that's the "mainstream" option. I'd like to take this opportunity to say "Hi" to the other three people using Mutt.

Of course, I'm doing it all wrong. What I'm supposed to do is use a web browser as an email client, for the ultimate bloat and lack of configurability.

No wait, that's not it. What I'm actually supposed to do is chuck my dinosaur PC into a landfill and use a smartphone running GMail, or something.

Nope, still wrong. Email in 2018 is like using VHS instead of Netflix. What I'm really supposed to do is use FB Messenger, WhatsApp and SnapChat. I have no idea what they are, but they sound utter shit. And, lets face it, in the time it took me to write that sentence those apps are already passé, and all the kiddies have long since moved on to some other pointless fad.

Back to Mutt, then.

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Re: Fucking idiots

" it's still not the no-brain install that Windows is for the vast majority of users"

It's not the 'no brain install' - Ubuntu, Mint, and others are dead easy... (pick language, username, password, and time zone. Default all else.)

It's "already installed because Microsoft bribed us / forced us to deliver only machines with Windows pre-installed".

Most users choose the monopoly that will control their computer and in Apple's case, their data, because it requires zero effort.

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Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

"Personally, I find Edge doesn't massacre my memory and loads pages fast, both things that matter more to me than OS politics."

The new (58) Firefox is faster still and configures well for security and privacy with a load of good extensions (Privacy Badger, Ghostery, NoScript, uBlock origins, etc).

It is also phenomenal for memory management for those of us who do breadth + depth research on the Internet - a dozen windows with hundreds of open tabs, with no slowdown and memory footprint less than 1 GB. (disclaimer - underlying OS is Linux for me, but if you can get 600 tabs open under Linux, I suspect you may well get half that, at least, under Windows - the Linux Firefox improved quite markedly when they went to the new engine and architecture).

The new Firefox is also multi-core aware, and will use them while avoiding treading on other processes.

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Silver badge
FAIL

Re: Fucking idiots

from article: "Microsoft’s justification for the change is that Edge is the best, most secure browser on Windows 10."

HA HA HA { while(1) printf("HA "); } HA HA *cough*!

(oh, they're SERIOUS?)

from post: "Microsoft has a history of not listening and shooting themselves in the foot."

and NOW they're shooting themselves in the GROIN.

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Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

"MS also have contracts with just about every other HW manufacturer making it difficult for them to supply non-Window's systems, so it is very difficult to buy a non Apple PC without being forced to buy Windows."

... and this is the thing that needs fixing ...

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Re: Fucking idiots

Yeah, and every single graphics program has its own graphics drivers - which might (or might not) work on your hardware…

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Re: Fucking idiots

> Surely, a better decision would have been to get her to buy her own Apple device?

No, she would have wound up with the pink one.

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@wallaby Re: Fucking idiots

The difference is that Apple has always been a "closed box" environment where they control everything, and Windows USED TO BE an "open box" where you could customize settings, choose updates, etc. This is the reason I am not an Apple fan, and went with Windows in the first place. With Windows 10, Microsoft if trying to transition Windows into a "closed box", which is why people are pissed.

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Silver badge

Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

"Or they choose to use MS"

Very few people choose to use Windows -- Windows is just what comes on the machines people buy. To use Apple requires an active choice rather than merely acceptance of the default.

I think it's fair to say that Apple users, having gone out of their way to choose Apple products, know what they're buying into. I don't think the same is true of most Windows users.

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Re: Fucking idiots

I keep telling ya'll, I'm a xNIX Admin that lives in Redmond (I'll be in prison for homicide before decade's close, I'm sure).

The Kool-Aid here is rampant, and most Macro$loppies working now aren't old enough to remember the Anti-Trust suit.

And this administration's DOJ doesn't seem too willing to reign in business so, I'll just say it to get it out of the way: Install BSD or Linux and call it an afternoon.

Oh, and "Edge" is the most secure browser because nobody fucking uses it.

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Silver badge

Re: Fucking idiots

AFAIR I changed the Desktop Background to a nerve-relaxing darkgreen with tiles showing in black I hate Microsoft - I hate Microsoft - I hate Microsoft in five-pixel high microfont for every Microsoft Windows® PC where I could do that.

You need this for wallpaper...

http://www.kmfms.com/main-logo.jpg

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