back to article Brexit to better bumpkin broadband, 4G coverage for farmers – Gove

UK Environment Secretary Michael Gove has promised to use the cash Blighty no longer has to give to the EU to subsidise rural connectivity. In a speech heavy on rhetoric but light on detail, Gove told delegates at the National Farmer's Union the government would spend billions of pounds improving rural broadband and 4G mobile …

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  1. John G Imrie

    He also blamed the EU's rules on state aid having "prevented us from investing in broadband in a way that is best for the UK.

    Er ... don't we keep giving large amounts of money to BT to get them to provide rural broardband?

    1. JetSetJim

      > Er ... don't we keep giving large amounts of money to BT to get them to provide rural broardband?

      Yes, we do, but it's not much, and the cash is running out. I guess all he's saying is that he'll put a little bit more money in the pot - I imagine his quote of "spending billions of pounds to improve rural broadband" will get diluted to "spending a few more million quid" in the long run.

      https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2017/11/government-extends-uk-2mbps-rural-better-broadband-subsidy-scheme.html

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        Yes, we do, but it's not much, and the cash is running out. I guess all he's saying is that he'll put a little bit more money in the pot

        Well the BDUK money is running out, but the government has already committed £400m out of the TV licence fee monies to rural broadband infrastructure. So I expect more money to be found and for the existing £400m commitment to be re-announced as if it were new monies.

    2. tiggity Silver badge

      EU rules do not prevent things like improving rural broadband

      Indeed, EU launched a strategy to improve rural broadband FFS!

      IIRC UK won one of the best broadband project awards recently, and over teh years EU has injected plenty of cash into UK for improving rural broadband.

      Even by MP standards of lies, this is plumbing new depths when it's so easy to prove Gove wrong just from memory without even needing to google for confirmation.

      Disclaimer - I live in the sticks and have some farmers as neighbours so tend to find out quickly via word of mouth when cash gets pumped into local rural broadband & other infrastructure improvement schemes. One of the (quite new) mobile phone towers nearby even has a plaque mentioning EU funding help on it!

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        But they can now afford to spend £350M/week on rural broadband now that they don't have to pay for all those farming subsidies

        1. Mike Scott 1

          Or the NHS because apparently it isn't going there either...

          Anyway the farmers have been told they won't notice a fiscal difference for 10 years - Lets see how that works out.

        2. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

          Ah, but,....

          ... didn't Gove also promise increased farming subsidies?

      2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

        Even by MP standards of lies, this is plumbing new depths when it's so easy to prove Gove

        Just call him by his real name. GoveNoccio.

      3. Tom Paine

        IDK about anyone else but my bullshit proximity warning klaxon tripped after the seventh word.

    3. newro

      The [EU] broadband State aid rules explained

      http://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/sources/conferences/state-aid/broadband_rulesexplained.pdf

      Also, what surplus? Wasn't every uk gov study coming out that brexit will cost extra money?

      1. Triggerfish

        Also, what surplus? Wasn't every uk gov study coming out that brexit will cost extra money?

        Yes yes but that's only until the resurgence of the British Empire They're preparing for it right now, there's some Polish guys down at Portsmouth recaulking the victory. BAE are doing mods; the masts are coming down and a couple of Yamaha outboards are being shoved on the back to make room for the F35s. Apparently there was a worry that the decks might be damaged by the engines, but they got a great deal on some cladding from an estate management company in Chelsea.

    4. Oh Homer
      Mushroom

      "one-fifth of our annual net contribution to the EU"

      Coincidentally, that's about the same as BT's annual profits.

    5. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Unhappy

      I wonder how many times that "money saved from EU contributions" will be re-used.

      Quite a few times I suspect.

      Just don't mention to them what the impact assessment by the National Horticulture and Agriculture Development Board has to say about that's going to happen to their businesses.

      1. H in The Hague

        Re: I wonder how many times that "money saved from EU contributions" will be re-used.

        Thanks for pointing me towards https://ahdb.org.uk/brexit/default.aspx . Over a dozen reports, interesting though on the whole rather depressing reading.

        https://ahdb.org.uk/documents/Horizon_Meat&Dairy_2018-01-31.pdf

        "Approximately 11% of current UK beef exports are sent to non-EU markets" i.e. 89% goes to the EU

        "The UK has access to very few of the largest beef-importing countries, such as Japan and the USA" Not sure Trump will give the UK better access in future.

        "Non-EU sheep meat exports were only 4% of total sheep meat exports. [...] the UK struggles to

        compete against cheaper low-cost producers from the Southern Hemisphere and South America"

        So 96% goes to the EU (mostly France, I think) but, if WTO tariffs apply to UK exports, is likely to be replaced by cheaper lamb from New Zealand, etc.

        Please point out any mistakes in my observations - this is rather beyond my ken.

        1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

          Re: I wonder how many times that "money saved from EU contributions" will be re-used.

          the UK struggles to compete against cheaper low-cost producers from the Southern Hemisphere and South America"

          Price is not the problem. UK not slaughtering the animals to the customer requirement IS the problem. UK lamb is stunned, then factory killed instead of it done properly with a knife while alive.

          90% of sheep meet consumption is in Muslim countries - predominantly the middle east. If you want to sell there it has to be killed the HALAL way. By a human. With a knife. While conscious.

          1. It is a manual process. There are not enough qualified Eastern European immigrants to do that and there will be even less after BrExit.

          2. If UK will start slaughtering this amount of lamb to the customer requirements there will be civil war with the animal protesters at each and every slaughterhouse. Considering their numbers and how militant they are in the UK it is just not worth it.

    6. Roland6 Silver badge

      He also blamed the EU's rules on state aid having "prevented us from investing in broadband in a way that is best for the UK.

      Er ... don't we keep giving large amounts of money to BT to get them to provide rural broardband?

      The TPTB at Westminster and in Whitehall thought they could simply throw money at BT before someone told them this would contravene the EU state-aid rules - that the UK largely wrote and got the EU to adopt. (Remember one of the problems UK exporters to the EEC encountered was governments favouring local businesses, so the UK got rules about state aid adopted to help level the Single Market playing field between in-country and out-of-country companies bidding for work.) And so they went away and came up with the funding rules for the BDUK Programme which effectively satisfied the state-aid criteria whilst making it only really viable for BT to tender...

      As we know, a reason why the government wanted BT to be involved is down to the existing arrangements for the monitoring of communications.

  2. Snorlax Silver badge

    Sigh

    Gove is an annoying little hobbit with an extremely punchable face.

    I wish he'd piss off back to whatever land hobbits come from...

    That is all.

    1. John G Imrie

      Re: Sigh

      I wish he'd piss off back to whatever land hobbits come from...

      That's a bit unfair on New Zeland.

    2. Locky

      Re: Sigh

      We don't want him back in the Shire. Send him to Mordor on some quest about a ring

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Sigh

        "We don't want him back in the Shire. Send him to Mordor on some quest about a ring"

        Gove more closely resembles Gollum than Frodo. Or was that your intention?

        1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

          Re: Sigh

          Gove more closely resembles Gollum than Frodo. Or was that your intention?

          I suspect so. He said "a quest about a Ring", not to a quest to save the Middle Earth. If he expected the latter, he needs to share what he is smoking. To imagine such an altruistic self-sacrifice from GoveNoccio... Such imagination would take some very cool drugs to fuel and not sharing them is a crime.

      2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
        Joke

        We don't want him back in the Shire. Send him to Mordor on some quest about a ring

        Mordor..

        Twinned with Wolverhampton.

    3. sabroni Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: Gove is an annoying little hobbit with an extremely punchable face.

      Why say that, and sound like just the kind of bullying thug the left are always accused of being, when there's so much policy that you could pick fault in?

      If you don't understand the arguments then don't join in.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Gove 90

      He doesn't look like a hobbit, he looks like Joe 90.

      FWIW, Gove was born and raised in Scotland, but made his political career in the Tory heartlands of the South East of England. I won't say he "went native", because he likely fitted in better there in the first place.

      Safe to say it's unlikely Tory Boy would have got as far as he did if it had been up to myself and most fellow Scots. The English were the ones who adopted the little twerp and facilitated his rise to power, they can keep the f****r.

      Don't raid our dustbin for cast-offs then complain to us when they stink.

  3. John G Imrie

    Gove also pooh-poohed the argument against subsidising those who choose to live in rural areas, where broadband provision and mobile phone coverage may cost more than urban areas.

    Has Gove bought a house out in the sticks recently, just asking?

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Wasn't this the speech where he promised farmers would still have access to EU labour? I guess he just "forgot" to note that the EU has already said that freedom of movement is non-negotiable.

      I like the idea that because Tim Berners-Lee is a Brit, it follows somehow that the WWW was British, conveniently ignoring the fact that he was working for CERN at the time. You know, one of those hated multinational bodies.

      Still, if people are prepared to believe that the magic money pot will allow them to spend the same money on the NHS, better transport, farm subsidies and now broadband, then pillocks like Gove will still continue to tell them.

      1. codejunky Silver badge

        @ Charlie Clark

        "Wasn't this the speech where he promised farmers would still have access to EU labour? I guess he just "forgot" to note that the EU has already said that freedom of movement is non-negotiable."

        I dont rate Gove and I will believe him when this project actually happens but why would the EU's stance on freedom of movement have diddly squat to do with our choosing to allow people to enter this country even from the EU to help on farms?

        Assuming your neighbour bans your family from their house doesnt stop you from accepting their family into yours.

        1. Snorlax Silver badge

          Re: @ Charlie Clark

          @codejunky:” ...but why would the EU's stance on freedom of movement have diddly squat to do with our choosing to allow people to enter this country even from the EU to help on farms?”

          Pro-Brexit folk have this annoying habit of making their problems sound like the EU’s fault.

          The EU didn’t kick anybody out; the UK electorate voted to leave.

          Unemployment is on the rise again. I’ll laugh when Jobcentres send our homegrown unemployed out to pick mushrooms, clean toilets and do all the other jobs which were done by “foreigners”. Should be a wakeup call for some...

          1. codejunky Silver badge

            Re: @ Charlie Clark

            @ Snorlax

            "Pro-Brexit folk have this annoying habit of making their problems sound like the EU’s fault."

            Your comment seems to have nothing to do with Charlie claiming the EU stance on freedom of movement has any impact on an independent UK's choice to allow people into the UK. The EU cannot dictate free movement (well they are trying which is why negotiation didnt get very far for a while) but we can reject free movement and still choose who to let in and from where.

            "Unemployment is on the rise again"

            Yeah I spotted that Guardian moment. The amusement being that it is barely rising from an all time low. Comparisons against the EU where it is falling dramatically forgot that EU unemployment is actually high. Relative movement without actual position are pretty worthless. Just as stunning EU growth and slow UK growth forget that the UK is years ahead of the EU in economic recovery and the EU is so far behind that growth is still for catching themselves up. But honest reporting like that doesnt show a doomed UK and utopia EU.

            "Pro-Brexit folk have this annoying habit of making their problems sound like the EU’s fault."

            So returning to this, some remainers do have an annoying habit of ignoring fact to show the EU in a good light and the UK in a bad light.

            1. Snorlax Silver badge

              Re: @ Charlie Clark

              @codejunky: There's a good little troll. There you go again - "the EU cannot dictate..." Yes they can, and they will. You seem to be under the illusion that the UK is in a position to bargain - it's not.

              Speaking of employment, has Farage still got his snout in the EU trough?

              Funny that a guy who despises the EU so much doesn't mind collecting an MEP's salary from Brussels every month...

              1. codejunky Silver badge

                Re: @ Charlie Clark

                @ Snorlax

                "Yes they can, and they will. You seem to be under the illusion that the UK is in a position to bargain - it's not."

                We are in the position to accept a deal or not. To think the only option is to accept a deal is to forget it cannot be forced without force. But this still has nothing to do with the original response to Charlie that if we are out of the EU we can accept people into this country on our terms regardless of the EU's opinion. Aka we dont need to block people from the EU coming here to do jobs we want done even if we dont subscribe to freedom of movement.

                @ Charlie Clark

                "Because it's part of the negotiations: if the UK wants vets, fruit pickers, nurses, doctors, plumbers, etc. it will have to give them the same rights to settle as they have under existing agreements"

                Actually you are wrong. We dont have to. I am not arguing for or against anything on this just pointing out that you are very wrong. Lets assume hard brexit with no deal (hypothetical). We can still let people from the EU in on temp visas to pick fruit. We dont need permission from the EU to do that. It is a private individual and our countries border restrictions which make the deal, the EU is not involved.

                I am hoping I read your comment right when you said- "Wasn't this the speech where he promised farmers would still have access to EU labour? I guess he just "forgot" to note that the EU has already said that freedom of movement is non-negotiable."

                Even under hard brexit we actually will still have the ability to do that with no deal at all with the EU. I hoped you understood that and your comment was mistaken. Hence my reply.

                "Still, if people are prepared to believe that the magic money pot will allow them to spend the same money on the NHS, better transport, farm subsidies and now broadband, then pillocks like Gove will still continue to tell them."

                It is truly scary what some people believe about a magic money pot and I will only believe it when the pigs stop flying and the bacon lands on the table. Until then I take it as the usual political spouting off to hoodwink voters. And as I said I am no fan of Gove.

            2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

              Re: @ Charlie Clark

              The amusement being that it is barely rising from an all time low.

              Tell that to those who've been forced off the figures into low-paid, shit work. Unemployment is lower and so are wages.

              the UK is years ahead of the EU in economic recovery

              If you take the whole of the EU then you're talking shit, as usual. The non-UK part never contracted as much as the UK as 2008-2018 comparisons show. In some countries like Greece things got a lot worse, of course, a tragedy for those concerned but also a very Greek tragedy with land reform, ending restrictive practices, etc. continually being deferred. A big problem for all countries is poor wage growth.

              1. codejunky Silver badge

                Re: @ Charlie Clark

                @ Charlie Clark

                "Tell that to those who've been forced off the figures into low-paid, shit work. Unemployment is lower and so are wages."

                Why? I dont see you telling the people in the promised land of the EU that high unemployment figures is great for them to be in the bastion of light. Unemployment is lower, so are wages, and still doing better than the EU. My point still stands. Add to that the moves to normalise the economy (currency getting stronger) vs the EU who is still trying to devalue their currency as we did years ago to recover from the recession.

                @ Pen-y-gors

                "The EU's stance has no relevance. The problem is May's stance"

                No kidding. That does bother me. Unfortunately she seems to be making statements resembling the racists and some of the remainers who want the UK to block itself off from the world if we leave the EU. I really hope its just rubbish being spouted.

                "No foreigners is what 17.4 million people asked for."

                When? Is this racists and complaining remainers? What about the leave voters? And whatever happened to the outward looking remainers? They do seem quiet but I do hope they are siding with the outward looking leave voters.

                "After all, there must be <bold>some</bold> advantages to Brexit? Surely? No, go on, something, please? Just a little thing? Okay, no."

                I guess you have missed the leave arguments? Democracy, trade, sovereignty, immigration, economy? If you are serious with the tail end of that then I can only guess you dont read many leave posts on the reg especially mine. I keep trying to get remainers to discuss this, but most dont seem to have any thoughts on that only EU good UK bad.

                @ Snorlax

                "The UK isn't seen by EU citizens as a welcoming place"

                Just read some of these comments from remainers. Would you want to live in a country of people saying stuff like that? Or of course Gove and Boris popping up could be enough to put people off.

            3. John Smith 19 Gold badge
              Unhappy

              "but we can reject free movement and still choose who to let in and from where."

              Shock news.

              The UK is not part of the Shengen Agreement.

              It always could put anyone going down the Green isle through the ringer if it chose to.

              But y'know the UK Home Office didn't think that was cricket, and it would have needed more staff.

              1. Snorlax Silver badge

                Re: "but we can reject free movement and still choose who to let in and from where."

                @JOhn SMith 19:"The UK is not part of the Shengen Agreement.

                It always could put anyone going down the Green isle through the ringer if it chose to."

                I guess they'll need to amend section 2(1) of the Republic of Ireland Act 1949 then?

                It is hereby declared that, notwithstanding that the Republic of Ireland is not part of His Majesty’s dominions, the Republic of Ireland is not a foreign country for the purposes of any law in force in any part of the United Kingdom...

                I don't think the Irish have similar legislation on their end, but I'm open to correction...

          2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

            Re: @ Charlie Clark

            I’ll laugh when Jobcentres send our homegrown unemployed out to pick mushrooms, clean toilets and do all the other jobs which were done by “foreigners”. Should be a wakeup call for some...

            This has been tried. They last somewhere between 6 hours and 2 days.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: @ Charlie Clark

            I’ll laugh when Jobcentres send our homegrown unemployed out to pick mushrooms, clean toilets and do all the other jobs which were done by “foreigners”.

            So your argument against Brexit is that it will deprive British businesses of cheap foreign labour to exploit?

            How refreshingly Capitalist of you.

            1. H in The Hague

              Re: @ Charlie Clark

              "So your argument against Brexit is that it will deprive British businesses of cheap foreign labour to exploit?"

              Errm, on the whole they'll be paid the minimum wage or living wage - not sure that counts as exploitation.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: @ Charlie Clark

              So your argument against Brexit is that it will deprive British businesses of cheap foreign labour to exploit?

              Your average lazy fat/borderline obeze slob propped on the bar at JD Weatherspoons will simply not make it through the day. He/She will drop in 3-4 h time. Tops.

              I am saying this based on experience. I am old enough to be of the generation when the schools and universities in Eastern Europe had a one month draft every year to pick the crops. I have fallen off the f***ing tree from exhaustion (and funnily enough so has my wife) and still failed to make the quota. I know how hard is this job.

              It is not a matter of of cheap - it is a matter of "you cannot make the lazy f***ers complaining about their jobs being taken do the job for any amount of money".

            3. Charlie Clark Silver badge

              Re: @ Charlie Clark

              So your argument against Brexit is that it will deprive British businesses of cheap foreign labour to exploit?

              Research tends to show that the immigrants are not displacing local workers so the wage level is not the main factor in most situations. Many of the employers will tell you that they cannot find local workers to do the work at any price. It could be lack of skills such as doctors or nurses but it could also be that people aren't prepared to do some of the back-breaking work that immigrants will do.

              Low wages are driven more by the "Walmart effect" of low prices driving wages down. If we want milk to cost 50p a litre (or whatever it is) we either expect people to earn a pittance or be replaced by robots. Hint, post-Brexit expect more jobs to be done by machines.

          4. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: @ Charlie Clark

            I’ll laugh when Jobcentres send our homegrown unemployed out to pick mushrooms, clean toilets and do all the other jobs which were done by “foreigners”.??

            Personally, I will be watching with interest to see whether THTB really have the backbone to do this. I will laugh when our homegrown unemployed complain about being made to do jobs that "Johnny foreigner" should be doing, whilst admitting they voted for Brexit...

            1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
              Unhappy

              I will laugh when our homegrown unemployed complain about being made to do jobs that

              "Johnny foreigner" should be doing, whilst admitting they voted for Brexit...

              Indeed.

              A British recruitment consultant of my acquaintance sent a mixed group of 8 people (some old, some young, some British, some foreign) to a 12 night shift at a bread factory.

              At the 6 hr mark 1/2 of them (mostly the younger, fitter, lazier ones) had f**ked off home as it was "too hard."

              The way he described them I suspected several of these idiots had voted to leave.

              A nice demonstration of the Dunning Kruger effect in action, as they clearly believed they were far too good to do the job, despite no experience or qualifications to actually do anything better.

        2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

          Re: @ Charlie Clark

          why would the EU's stance on freedom of movement

          Because it's part of the negotiations: if the UK wants vets, fruit pickers, nurses, doctors, plumbers, etc. it will have to give them the same rights to settle as they have under existing agreements. Otherweise expect the EU to play even harder ball with things like reciprocal tax arrangements, including making it even less atrractive to work in the UK that it will be already. For example, it'd be easy enough to make such workers pay tax in the own country on anything they earn in the UK. Course, there are a couple of million in sub-saharen Africa jumping at the chance to work in cold, wet fields in the winter.

          But you know this already: "regulatory alignment" means keeping things as they are (except the UK losing voting rights) but just keeping it out of the Mail and the Telegraph. There isn't really any time between now and January 2021, when you're out the door, to do any of these negotiations, let alone by the end of October, which is when a transitional agreement will have to be done by.

          The fuckwits in the government running have added to the handicap by pissing off a lot of the more talented civil servants who Whitehall, who are the ones you need to get the details.

          But who cares as long as Johnny Foreigner fucks off and Bojo drives the magic bus round the country with cash and G&Ts for everyone. Oh, happy days!

          1. Snorlax Silver badge

            Re: @ Charlie Clark

            @Charlie Clark:"Because it's part of the negotiations: if the UK wants vets, fruit pickers, nurses, doctors, plumbers, etc. it will have to give them the same rights to settle as they have under existing agreements."

            The thing is, a lot of these doctors, nurses, bus drivers and fruit pickers have already left and won't be coming back. Maybe we can expect a visa waiver arrangement with some non-EU countries to bring in cheap labour after Brexit? Unemployment in Turkey is somewhere around 10%; I wonder if many Turks would like to work in the UK, no questions asked?

            The UK isn't seen by EU citizens as a welcoming place, and that's thanks to a vocal minority of arseholes who can't (or won't) do the jobs that they complain about the foreigners taking. Sad really...

            1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

              Re: @ Charlie Clark

              The thing is, a lot of these doctors, nurses, bus drivers and fruit pickers have already left and won't be coming back.

              They did not just leave. They took a lot of money with them and the remaining are sending an even bigger amount out in preparation to do the same.

              These are the stats for average salary nationally in Bulgaria for last year: Average salary in Bulgaria by month and industry for 2017 in leva

              Growth is > 12%. The only explanation is the financial injection from BrExit - all the money which instead of being spent here is now being spent there.

              Romania, Poland, etc are all the same and similar numbers. >10, reaching 20-25 in some specific economic areas and regions.

              Money DOES NOT grow on trees. The money spent there to induce this growth would have been spent in the UK otherwise. It was lost by the UK economy and gained by the Eastern European economies. The numbers needed for such a spurt across all of Eastern Europe are in the tens of billions and I find it difficult to believe that ANYTHING, even an act of god showering all of the UK with gold nuggets will be able to recoup it. We are definitely not talking about measly 300 million a week here. This is more.

              1. Snorlax Silver badge

                Re: @ Charlie Clark

                @Voland's right hand:"These are the stats for average salary nationally in Bulgaria for last year: Average salary in Bulgaria by month and industry for 2017 in leva

                Growth is > 12%. The only explanation is the financial injection from BrExit - all the money which instead of being spent here is now being spent there."

                You might think so, but no. Bulgaria is receiving €10bn in EU aid up until 2020 according to the Financial Times. There's a lot of cheap credit there at the minute...I hope they look at Ireland, Greece, Spain etc and take note of their mistakes.

                1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

                  Re: @ Charlie Clark

                  You might think so, but no. Bulgaria is receiving €10bn in EU aid up until 2020

                  It has been receiving them since times forgotten around the time it joined with minimal effect - have a look at the previous years stats - same website. 2016 is 4%, 2015 is 4%, previous years vary between 2 and 4%.

                  The >10% a year growth starts with BrExit or to be more exact the formulation of "BrExit means BrExit" and the actual declaration of article 50.

                  We can make some guesstimates on the size by comparing it to the EU Aid effect by the way. I'd rather not try to make guesses, as they are likely to be very unscientific. However, any way I look at it the numbers are likely to have Bn at the end.

                  I am too lazy to try to concoct similar queries in Romanian and Polish, but I would expect their national statistics to show similar numbers.

                  This is off topic - as far as the cheap credit, Bulgaria debt is one of the lowest in Europe - at ~25% of GDP since 2005. UK at 88% can only dream about a debt at this level. So it is not going down the Greek route any time soon. UK is more likely to go before that (especially considering how much money it is bleeding out at the moment).

        3. Pen-y-gors

          Re: @ Charlie Clark

          @codejunky

          but why would the EU's stance on freedom of movement have diddly squat to do with our choosing to allow people to enter this country even from the EU to help on farms?

          The EU's stance has no relevance. The problem is May's stance.No foreigners. Remember that one of the major advantages of Brexit is meant to be that we can chuck out all these working foreigners who contribute so much to our economy. (We can already chuck out the non-working ones after three months without leaving the EU, but May just couldn't be arsed). No foreigners is what 17.4 million people asked for. It would be a tad silly to have a Brexit to expel the foreigners, and then let them all back in again. After all, there must be <bold>some</bold> advantages to Brexit? Surely? No, go on, something, please? Just a little thing? Okay, no.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: @ Charlie Clark

            No foreigners is what 17.4 million people asked for.

            No, it isn't, and no amount of your racist rantings will make it so. For most of us, Brexit is about economics and politics, not foreigners.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: For most of us, Brexit is about economics

              Comedy gold.

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