back to article Ecuador tried to make Julian Assange a diplomat

Ecuador granted citizenship to Julian Assange and tried to register him as a diplomat in order to secure his release from the nation’s London embassy. The first part of Ecuador’s plan worked: Assange won his citizenship and donned the Ecuadorian national football team’s shirt to prove it. pic.twitter.com/LB5jzQmJLb — Julian …

Megaphone

Hopefully this means he has renounced his Aussie citizenship and we* can be rid of him.

Either way, this would also mean that he is excluded under Section 44 of the Constitution from being eligible for Parliament, which has been a topic of Aussie politics of late.

*we meaning Aussies.

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Anonymous Coward

ppfffttt

looking at our politicians, all it means is he needs to renounce his Ecuador citizenship and he's back to being Australian and can enter parliament.

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Virtual insanity

I'd like to be the first to virtue signal, and show my peers how decent a human being I am by saying that Julian Assange is a <insert generic baseless insult>, and therefore I am a nice guy and support <insert trending sjw causes> and/or <rampant patriotism>.

Thanks.

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Re: Virtual insanity

Careful, your red-pill signalling is showing.

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Headmaster

Re: Virtual insanity

You can call practically any behaviour which isn't directly survival based 'virtue signalling'.

When nazis start doing their nazi salutes, or waving tiki torches around or whatever it is they do now, that's them trying to signal their virtue to all the other nazis.

I suppose if you're a WWII sniper then they're also signalling their virtue as targets, how considerate!

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Re: Virtual insanity

The term overwhelmingly gets used for putting someone down to make yourself look good. It's gone from insulting someone's taste in boybands to imply that your taste is better into grown up politics and hasn't become more mature. "You suck therefore I don't" is one of the highest profile and most tiresome logical fallacies in the 21st century.

And you're right, it's not restricted to one side.

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Usually you get the option to change your name when you get naturalized. They should have named him Jose Garcia and asked for diplomatic papers under that name, and pulled a fast one that way.

The only real victims in this farce are the long-suffering Ecuadorian diplomats in London.

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Other victims

His bail sureties had to pay £93,500. The police bill for the first three years was £12.6M. If I put on my tin foil hat then when the UK ceased paying for 24x7 surveillance I suspect the US took over.

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Re: Other victims

12,6 million for 3 years??

4.2 mln / yr

3 X 8-hr shifts to get 24-hr coverage = 1.4mln per shift per year

or 4X 6-hr shifts, 1.05 mln per shift per year

Exactly how many policemen are required to cover 2 or 3 exits?

And what level of expertise (and therefore, pay) is required to look at a door for 6 hours a day and make sure a particular person does not come out?

In this case the victims are the UK taxpayers, the police seem to have done rather well out of it!

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Joke

Jose

Hm yeah Jose might be better Julian's 'Jesus' suggestion.

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WOT? CCTV not sufficient???

I would expect the millions of cameras monitoring your police state to be sufficient to watch the exits of an embassy without requiring expensive meatsacks to do the job. Britain is obviously not reluctant to put up cameras on every pub and corner. Why didn't they simply add twenty more on the embassy?

I can answer my own question. The Pale One has defied the Stasi of the UK and US, they will stop at NOTHING to make him pay for it, and want everyone to know it. Cops are the same everywhere, they will never admit error, and they will never give up. The Sun will expand to a red giant and they will still be trying to extradite his decomposed remains to face trial.

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I'm making a guess here, but would they need to provide a photograph of the newly proposed diplomat?

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Re: WOT? CCTV not sufficient???

There's not much point in a CCTV camera pointed at a door, if there's no one there to arrest him when he actually comes out is there?

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Re: WOT? CCTV not sufficient???

"WOT? CCTV not sufficient???"

The issue is not seeing him leave, the issue is getting hold of him before he can go hide somewhere else or leave the country. CCTV has never been particularly good at arresting people.

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At least one thing has been demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt; those who suggested it would be easy for the Ecuadorian government to make him a diplomat, thus making his escape easy, have been proven wrong; it requires the approval the Court of St James, and this will not be forthcoming. They must let him go or put up with him until he leaves the building in a box.

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Anonymous Coward

under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations . . .?

@ scorchio: beyond a doubt = with doubt according to Ambassador Murray

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/01/ecuador-and-assange/

Ambassador Murray reminds us that the Host country is only required/able to accept/refuse diplomat status for the Head of Mission - other even annoying minions are simply 'ordained' by their own foreign service - debate will continue I'm sure!

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Re: under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations . . .?

In which case we* are perfectly free to revoke the status of the diplomat-in-chief who made Assange a diplomat. I don't think that's a route Ecuador want to go down at this point.

*The UK

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Re: under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations . . .?

And aren't those positions subject to host acceptance the ONLY positions where diplomatic immunity can seriously apply?

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Anonymous Coward

It's a weird world...

where the government of a liberal democracy (US or UK) holds a grunge against an individual citizen of another liberal democracy because he published unpleasant material many years ago. With all the lip service to a free press, I guess said democracies find it preferable to have a tightly regulated press that stick to the script.

You may not like what he published, but the idea of free speech is that people can say what they want even if you don't like it or if it makes you look bad. I was not aware, that Assange ever signed a nondisclosure agreement with the US military that would make him criminally liable for anything. But I forget, it's all about the Swedish thing (that the Swedes are no longer interested in)... right.

By now, most Brits should understand how they were played when their country went to fight the good fight in Iraq. Why then don't they r̶e̶w̶a̶r̶d̶ ̶ cease to punish the whistle-blowers who brought up the documents necessary to see through the smoke and mirrors?

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Re: It's a weird world...

If you bother checking the facts, you don't have to go there.

A was wanted by Sweden on an EU warrant, was arrested in the UK and released on bail. He jumped bail, which has not changed even if Sweden have given up on him.

If I was A and paranoid I would rather have gone to Sweden and taken my chances there against extradition to the US than trying it in the UK. And that is in any case speculation so far, right?

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Re: It's a weird world...

Don't actually see that the UK is anything but a middle man.

"Please arrest him, here's all the paperwork"

"That paperwork isn't right."

"Oh, sorry, here."

"Nope, still not right."

"Oh, for feck's sake... HERE"

"Okay, we'll do that now that you've done it properly. Mr Assange... Hold on, he's skipped bail."

"Oh, well, forget it."

"Er... no... we're having him for skipping bail because we can't just have everyone do that. What comes after may be a matter of protocol, but we can't have people just think they can skip UK bail by running to an embassy and that's that."

I honestly think it will at this point be a million times more likely and a thousand times more embarrassing for him to come out, be arrested, sent to jail for skipping bail, six months without press, gets out of that and... literally nothing happens. Nobody cares enough to bother to chase him any more. A couple of press conferences and then fades into obscurity.

Pretty much the only reason we're still talking about him is that he's an outlaw. As it is, he's spent years in a self-imposed prison, will spend more in a proper prison, and then... well... pretty much whatever was going to happen will happen anyway - prosecution, extradition or nothing at all.

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Re: It's a weird world...

The problem with this scenario is, that if he does so within the statutory limitations of the Swedish sex offence charges, Swedish prosecutors will reopen the investigations and refile the extradition papers the same instant he is in UK custody.

Maybe Brexit can save him, though..?

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Re: It's a weird world...

I hold a grudge against him because he is a rapist on the run. Nothing to do with his wikileaking.

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Re: It's a weird world...

Sadly, history has shown that the human female sometimes lie about these things.

So I will correct your sentence, what you should have typed is:

"I hold a grudge against him because he is an alleged rapist on the run"

I would add also he is on the run from that beacon of light, the land of the *cough* free, Murica™© - I'm trying to run from them too so I dont blame him!

Let's get straight to the facts, Julian Assanges' Wikileaks published damaging material about abuses and war crimes, of a suspect war, that was instigated because of a blatant false flag attack, with the MSM doing as they're told, to help maintain the PR status quo for the masses, AKA propaganda

I remember the 1991 gulf war, the reasons for that, the propaganda put out, the 911 event and lies, the 77 event and that good ol' Peter Powers, of Visor Consultants

You'll excuse me if I tell you to STFU, because you have no clue what you're on about, or the history of all of this, this clusterfuck of humanity

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Re: It's a weird world...

"Nobody cares enough to bother to chase him any more. A couple of press conferences and then fades into obscurity."

Which bit of this, and other such statements from the US, did you miss...?

"Jeff Sessions, the USA’s attorney-general, has made it abundantly clear that the book will be hurled, with extreme prejudice, directly at the leaker-in-chief."

It would appear that Assange may have had cause for his paranoia, at the least. The US has become...how shall we say... blunter under the Trump regime and less prone to dance around the point. Obama refused to comment on Assange, Clinton wanted to "drone him to death" and Trump wants the book chucked at him. It would appear that that champion of openness and free speech, the US of A, are determined to grab a non-citizen and take revenge for the embarrassment he heaped on them. I'm not sure we can deny that any longer.

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Re: It's a weird world...

"Sadly, history has shown that the human female sometimes lie about these things."

Rather a creepy thing to say about women. And yet you're an Assange supporter? Inconceivable!

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Re: It's a weird world...

Yes, he's now wanted for bail jumping in UK, but AC's core point stands - If the US just let it go, he could exit the embassy, have a quick trial in UK for bail-jumping, spend a few months in jail and then be done with it.

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Re: It's a weird world...

"Sadly, history has shown that the human female sometimes lie about these things."

Yes, but it is less likely than in relation to any other offence.

Also, based on his own description of what he did, he is a rapist.

Yes, the previous session that happened a couple of hours before the rape probably was consensual, but that does not allow him to rape her while she's sleeping with him.

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Re: It's a weird world...

It's been a few years but I read Swedish case that's been handed over to the courts (Sweden makes a lot public on principle) and it was a bit iffy on the whole raping bit.

He's a slob and two-timing bastard of the first degree but the case would not go to court in almost any other country.

He supposedly wanted to be without a condom but put one on anyway but caused the end of it to break.

Then they had another go the next morning which she felt uncomfortable with afterwards making it a problem after the fact.

The other girl talked to the first because he was a bit of a creep and they both decided to go to the police.

When it happened I remember there was also a private familiarity between the girls and the prosecutor who decided it was rape and not mere molestation. There was a lot of conspiracy accusations initially as the whole lot in Sweden was either active Social democrats (the Labour party there) or closely linked since it's hard to see how unprotected sex and after the fact regrets amounts to rape.

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Re: It's a weird world...

"I honestly think it will at this point be a million times more likely and a thousand times more embarrassing for him to come out, be arrested, sent to jail for skipping bail, six months without press, gets out of that and... literally nothing happens. Nobody cares enough to bother to chase him any more. A couple of press conferences and then fades into obscurity."

That would certainly have been the smart thing to have done and could have been the situation a year a so back. However he's now met his match in the White House.

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Re: It's a weird world...

@nethack47

since it's hard to see how unprotected sex and after the fact regrets amounts to rape.

Well, lets just look at that objectively shall we? Forget about who the suspect is for a moment.

A girl consents to sex with protection and instead you have sex without protection, for which there was no consent. Sex without consent is rape. There's no excuse. Yes, some small percentage of rape allegations will be mailicious or made up, but that is why we have these things called trials; to work out who is telling the truth and who isn't.

Now, back to Assange. In all the time he was in Sweden after the leaks, he made zero noise about being extradited. He simply didn't consider it a threat. Then, after his lawyer illegally warned him he was going to be arrested for rape, he fled the country to the UK. The only country in the whole world it makes less sense to flee to in order to escape prosecution in America, is America.

I'm not sure there are any after the fact regrets in this case - I've not heard form him any denial that he was told to bag up and didn't. That the woman didn't flee on the evening and report immediately does not an after the fact regret make. He strayed from the parameters of consent and acted in a manner he had allegedly specifically been told he did not have consent for.

In the time between entering the UK and fleeing to the embassy, he was seemingly totally unconcerned about extradition to America from the UK. He belatedly raised that as a 'fact' after the Swedes got their paperwork straight, and fled to the embassy.

The situation he's created for himself is undoubtedly uncomfortable, but I have no sympathy for that because he's hiding in order to deny a couple of women their day in court. What if those women are telling the truth? He's simply aggravating their suffering by denying them their day in court, and subjecting them to his media presence every few weeks. The impact on his wife and children must be devastating. "Mammy, why does Billy at school call daddy a rapist? And why won't he come out of that little room." If the statute of limitations in Sweden has expired, then he will be referred to as an alleged rapist for the rest of his life...... if he actually is innocent, that must hurt beyond belief.

If he had any sense at all, he'd have left the in time to serve his time in Sweden, get sent to jail under Obama, then pardoned right along with Manning. Waiting until Trump is in charge seems like a strategic error, especially after the fury Mannings release caused among Trump supporters.

Unless there is a statute of limitations in regard to the offences he's wanted for in America, and I suspect there isn't, then he will forever be at risk of detention under any future Presidency. His only play is to come out, serve time for the bail jumping, and see what happens next. That aside he's on the couch until he dies.

We're clearly never going to waive the bail jumping, and as much as Ecquador may want to get him out of their embassy, it'd difficult to see a means by which that could ever happen, short of some James Bond style escape sequence.

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Re: It's a weird world...

"Er... no... we're having him for skipping bail because we can't just have everyone do that."

The standard punishment for a first time bail offender is a smack in the wrist and being told not to do it again.

If Asshat was to get bird or other punishments, then he'd have ground for appeal due to political interference.

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Re: It's a weird world...

Let's get straight to the facts, Julian Assanges' Wikileaks published damaging material about abuses and war crimes, of a suspect war, that was instigated because of a blatant false flag attack, with the MSM doing as they're told, to help maintain the PR status quo for the masses, AKA propaganda

That's where I think Assange/Wikileaks made a huge mistake. Facts, and their b'stard stepchild, fact 'checkers' aren't always reliable, and then become PR or propaganda tools themselves. So some years ago, Assange published his 'Collateral Murder' video showing a US attack that killed Reuters staff. But, his video edited out some crucial elements, like armed insurgents with the Reuters people. And from that point on, I lost trust in Wikileaks because it became political rather than neutral. And by becoming political, Assange has also made himself more enemies. It also meant Wikileaks lost staff, and probably sources who didn't want Assange editorialising to suit his own agenda.

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Re: It's a weird world...

"would add also he is on the run from that beacon of light, the land of the *cough* free, Murica"

And he thought the best place to do that would be to come the UK?

Running Wikileaks surely he must've been aware of the UK's "special relationship" with USA, the generous extradition treaty we have with the USA and how many CIA and NSA substations are actually situated here in the UK.

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Re: It's a weird world...

"We're clearly never going to waive the bail jumping, and as much as Ecquador may want to get him out of their embassy, it'd difficult to see a means by which that could ever happen, short of some James Bond style escape sequence."

And now Ecuador have made him a citizen, it's a lot more difficult for them to just give up and kick him out the door to face the music. That means losing even more face than if they'd left his citizenship alone.

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Re: It's a weird world...

"Rather a creepy thing to say about women. And yet you're an Assange supporter? Inconceivable!"

It's not that strange when you consider, that I dont consider myself a part of this stupid species YOU call humans, there is no fucking way I am a member of this species, if I was I would have topped myself ages ago. It's a disgusting species, Agent Smith said it best when reclassifying our species in the film The Matrix

PS. You dont have to like what I am saying either, I don't care (y) ;)

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Re: It's a weird world...

"Running Wikileaks surely he must've been aware of the UK's "special relationship" with USA"

You do realise the UK is/was a vassal of the USA?

The Special Relationship © is meant to be said with threatening undertones ;)

I'm not sure how that co-dependency 'relationship' is working out, now that Trump is in the whitehouse

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Anonymous Coward

Re: It's a weird world...

"But, his video edited out some crucial elements, like armed insurgents with the Reuters people."

Hmm, that sentence sounds like they were airbrushed out of the video. AFAIK the video had a commentary that misrepresented the presence of the armed personnel but the video wasn't specifically edited to remove digital content (it selectively slowed down some parts to add commentary).

I would agree there was commentary that was probably unneeded which politicised it, but the video itself did represent the reality of what happened, you just need to hear several commentaries describing what you are seeing to get a balanced picture.

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Re: It's a weird world...

Yep, it slowed down the identification of the journalists. But not the rest of the group. The 17min version is the edit, the longer was presented without (or less) comment. Then per Wiki-

Assange later acknowledged "Based upon visual evidence, I suspect there probably were AKs and an RPG, but I'm not sure that means anything"

It means there were threats, the helicopter requested permission to engage, was authorised.. and then one of the Reuter's guys sadly poked around cover with something that could have been an RPG. And the rest is several versions of history. By editing and adding the commentary, it selectively represented a perceived reality.. And again that's Assange's problem. Start doing that, and people stop trusting you.

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@Alan Brown - jumping bail

Actually the sentencing guidelines are a lot richer than "has he done it before?". Have a look at https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/web_Fail_to_Surrender_to_Bail.pdf - a case is assessed as causing the highest pre-trial harm when it grossly interferes with the course of justice, e.g. by delaying a trial so much that witness memories become unreliable. Since Assange shows every sign of running all charges beyond the Swedish statute of limitations he surely satisfies this criterion.

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Re: AC Re: It's a weird world...

"It's a weird world... where the government of a liberal democracy (US or UK) holds a grunge (sic) against an individual citizen of another liberal democracy because he published unpleasant material many years ago....." Nice try at revisionism, but that has nothing to do with the bail jumping charge Assange is hiding from. That is simply a common charge of your average petty criminal. Your "hero" has feet of clay, even before we get round to discussing the accusations of sexual harassment in Sweden that started the whole jaunt.

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Re: Bernard M. Orwell Re: It's a weird world...

Up-vote for making the calm and rational point that the US is definitely out to get him (possibly more so because Assange is likely to leak plenty more to embarrass the previous Democrat administration rather than Trump's). Unfortunately you negated to mention that it was Assange and his behavior that put him in a mess in the first place, and then made it worse for himself with this silly hiding in the Embassy stunt. If he had gone to Sweden he would not have been extradited to the US as Swedish law prohibits the extradition of political cases, and also because Assange's time "writing" for Aftonblavet (sorry, not sure on the spelling, too lazy to check) gives him added protection under Swedish law for protecting journalists (it's the reason he went to Sweden in the first place). As long as the European Arrest Warrant was in-place it took priority over any English legal matters. Now, however, neither of the Swedish get-outs apply in the UK, and he has royally screwed himself by making himself a fugitive from the law in England by bail-jumping a there would be very little case not to extradite him to the US from the UK! Kind of hard for him to do a Love and claim he's suicidal at the thought of being locked up after he's willingly imprisoned himself for several years already!

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Re: jmch Re: It's a weird world...

"....he could exit the embassy, have a quick trial in UK for bail-jumping, spend a few months in jail and then be done with it." Actually probably not. Her Maj's Government are probably quite happy to hand Assange over to the US in the case of an extradition request as it means the Yanks get to handle all the subsequent shrieking and misbehaving of the Resistance/Occupy/Anonymous crowd. However, if the US doesn't issue an extradition request, the UK has it's own axe to grind. You may have missed the David Miranda affair, where it was admitted in court that Miranda had 58,000 highly-classified UK Government documents in his possession that are claimed to have been part of the WikiLeaks trove. WikiLeaks just having those docs without authority, let alone distributing them, puts them in breach of section 6 of the UK's Official Secrets Act, and as Assange has already admitted his part in that leak he will probably be slapped with a charge by the UK if the Americans take a rain check. So, no, it is highly unlikely that Assange will just be getting a slap on the wrist if he leaves the Ecuadorean Embassy, he's probably doing hard time in the US or the UK.

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Re: nethack47 Re: It's a weird world...

"....but the case would not go to court in almost any other country....." Not true! Assange's lawyer tried that argument in the UK twice and both times the court replied it would also be rape under English law. Seriously, how many times does that zombie argument need to be slain before the Assange apologists admit it's simply not true?!?!

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Re: Alan Brown Re: It's a weird world...

"....The standard punishment for a first time bail offender is a smack in the wrist and being told not to do it again....." True, but the bail-jumping punishment is not the problem for Assange, the problem is when he is under arrest the UK can bring any other charges they wish, including holding him almost indefinitely (no bail for previous bail-jumpers!) whilst an extradition request from the US is considered. And that is ignoring the fact the UK can now press their own prosecution under the Official Secrets Act without having to hand him off to Sweden first if the US takes a pass. If the US did make an extradition request, Lauri Love's extradition took three years and Assange's would take at least that long given his idiotic ability to shoot himself in the feet. That would be three years in a maximum security UK prison, followed by "life" (say 25 years) in maximum security in the US. Or, if the US passes, probably fourteen years of UK maximum security prison if sentenced for breach of the OSA. Not the 26 months average rape sentence in a cushy Swedish minimum security prison Assange was facing at the start of this affair. Julian Assange truly is the Bechtel of people that started digging a hole and just kept on digging themselves deeper!

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Re: FlamingDeath Re: It's a weird world...

".... there is no fucking way I am a member of this species, if I was I would have topped myself ages ago...." Ooh, bad news - considering you are using some form of computer to post on an Internet forum you are most definitely human, though probably not exactly the smartest homo sapiens in the room. Probably time to warm up the "phone" booth. Maybe you're a hominid - do you enjoy throwing your faeces at the wall of your pen?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: It's a weird world...

And now Ecuador have made him a citizen, it's a lot more difficult for them to just give up and kick him out the door to face the music. That means losing even more face than if they'd left his citizenship alone.

That said, the Ozzies must be besides themselves with glee because he's now no longer a stain (pardon the pun) on their reputation, and the weird but allegedly potential of him applying for a political job there has now been eradicated too. I may not have that last bit 100% right because I've lost so much interest in this w*nker(*) that I don't even bother to remember most of his antics, though.

As far as I can tell from the Australian perspective, Ecuador appears to have done them a massive favour...

(*) Yes, yes, I know, if he really had been a w*nker he would probably not be in this mess, but I meant it figuratively, not literally. Go with me on this.

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Re: jmch It's a weird world...

However, if the US doesn't issue an extradition request, the UK has it's own axe to grind. You may have missed the David Miranda affair, where it was admitted in court that Miranda had 58,000 highly-classified UK Government documents in his possession that are claimed to have been part of the WikiLeaks trove. WikiLeaks just having those docs without authority, let alone distributing them, puts them in breach of section 6 of the UK's Official Secrets Act, and as Assange has already admitted his part in that leak he will probably be slapped with a charge by the UK if the Americans take a rain check.

Actually, *I* missed that one. Thanks for the reminder. It appears St Jules is f*cked either way, pretty much the position he manoeuvred those Swedish girls in. If they had kept quiet they would have to live with the problem (given St Jules' rumoured aversion to cleanliness he could have been sharing a bit too much, which was IMHO the motive for the girls to ask via the police if he would be so kind to have himself checked - a request, I note, he has as yet to act upon which carries a hint that he may already know what the outcome would be), and acting got them accused by especially the mindless ST Jules supporters of being stooges of whoever is currently pursuing his unwashed grace.

I'd switch back a few steps here to address Wikileaks itself. Given how he behaves and how WL has been acting I find the conclusion pretty much inevitable that the alleged motive of creating "openness" is a load of hogwash - as far as I can tell, WL was merely created to put some "benefit to society" varnish over Assange's hacking activities and so give it an air of legitimacy that it has proven not to deserve in the slightest due to its clear political bias, which moves those hacking activities back on the criminal dossier too. No public benefit, ergo no excuses.

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Re: It's a weird world...

because he published unpleasant material

He's free to publish whatever he wants just as we are free to form an opinion about him based on that.

Free speech can have consequences.

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Re: It's a weird world...

that I dont consider myself a part of this stupid species

Whether you consider yourself a human is irrelevent. The fact is that you are one - and all the wishing in the world isn't going to change that.

Reality - it sucks but it's all we have.

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