back to article Devs see red after not seeing Big Red on Stack Overflow database poll

The latest Stack Overflow developer survey has invoked ire from Oracle fans after failing to include Big Red in its list of database technologies. The survey, which last year attracted more than 64,000 responses, asks devs about the tools, databases, languages and platforms they use, loathe or want. Last year's results found …

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Facepalm

It wasn't the entry which was missed

It was the phrase "willingly" from the question before "done", for which obviously Oracle has no place.

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Re: It wasn't the entry which was missed

Oracle should have been number 6...

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Fuck Oracle

Icon: It has literally driven me to the drink on occasion.

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Re: Fuck Oracle

My heart agrees. I hate Oracle as much as the next guy (particularly when I have to develop for their DBMS). However, it's simply objectively true that Oracle crap is pretty widely used, and omitting them from the survey -- as good as it may feel -- reduces the value of the survey.

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Anonymous Coward

I'm convinced that Oracle DB is designed to be as un user friendly as possible just to ensure continual work for its aging DBAs.

Just today I had an error that stopped access to the DB. However the error doesn't really describe the issue, nor do the logs nor does anything else. In the end it was a simple enough fix - after you've trawled from FAQ to KB to forum to forum. However the database would have been checking a parameter and seeing that is was exceeded, so why not just say exactly that "ABC has exceeded parameter X", maybe even had a more info selector to tell you where to change the setting.

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Anonymous Coward

What the f* is "older organizations" supposed to mean? Basically +90% of the Fortune 100 use Oracle, you know: big, global companies with hundreds of thousands of employees, trillions of transactions that actually post real profits every year instead of leeching off venture capital. Looks to me like just another case of hipster derangement syndrome, accompanied by the the pervasive cancer of ageism that won't seem to go away.

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Anonymous Coward

>> Basically +90% of the Fortune 100 use Oracle

Because they are prisoners of history. Pretty much everyone uses MS SQL in enterprise greenfield sites these days. No one sane uses Oracle out of choice.

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"Pretty much everyone uses MS SQL in enterprise greenfield sites these days"

Erm - references, please?? (can't find an appropriate icon)

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Coffee/keyboard

" Pretty much everyone uses MS SQL in enterprise greenfield sites these days"

*choke* - what? my keyboard! (dammit, grab paper towel and start wiping)

You didn't read in the article where MySQL was #1, did you? (or the linked-to page with "last year's results")

I would normally expect PGSQL to do better than Micro-shaft SQL Server [which I refuse to call "sequel" because it's not a sequel to anything] in that survey from last year, but there seemed to be a dis-representative number of "C-pound" and Java SCRIPT "programmers" that took the survey (see the 'languages' part). And having a dis-representative sample gives you skewed results.

Compare this to the TIOBE index, where C-pound reportedly gets ~2/3 of what C++ gets (3.75% vs 5.60% in the latest) and C leads Java SCRIPT by 11.3% to 3.5%, you can see that they have an INaccurate representation of programmers in general on their survey.

Being that I'd expect SQL Server users to use C-pound and Java SCRIPT more than C, C++, and "regular Java", I think SQL Server's "favorable" position compared to PG and SQLite (and maybe even Oracle) is suspect at best, grossly inaccurate at worst.

Still it's a nice survey of "people willing to take a survey that also read slashdot"

And it _IS_ significant that they left 'Oracle' off of the list on this year's survey.

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Trollface

@Steve Aubrey:

Correct icon for this *thread* in the comments:

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Alistair - thanks. Now I get it - calling him out, not being one myself.

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Roo
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Windows

"What the f* is "older organizations" supposed to mean? Basically +90% of the Fortune 100 use Oracle,"

The world doesn't owe Oracle a living and it is legacy gear now... The only folks who care enough are wannabe Greybeards tending the grave.

The Oracle fan boys get to know what it felt like for the VMS or OS/400 enthusiasts a couple of decades back - although in fairness at least those products were well engineered and well documented so their day jobs were more enjoyable.

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"Because they are prisoners of history. Pretty much everyone uses MS SQL in enterprise greenfield sites these days"

Just an alternative prison.

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"You didn't read in the article where MySQL was #1, did you?"

That just means #1 amongst Stack Overflow's audience. I seriously doubt that the people answering a SO poll are actually statistically representative of the entire space.

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"The Oracle fan boys"

Wait, there are Oracle fanboys (outside of Oracle employees)? Weird. I've known a lot of people who have to work with Oracle's stuff, but I've never seen hide nor tail of a fanboy.

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Anonymous Coward

That just means #1 amongst Stack Overflow's audience. I seriously doubt that the people answering a SO poll are actually statistically representative of the entire space tab.

I think I've just triggered a mob of space loving coders running after me with torches. I'll grab my coat and start running. /trollface

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Anonymous Coward

"You didn't read in the article where MySQL was #1, did you? (or the linked-to page with "last year's results")"

Well firstly that's based on SO only so hardly represents all enterprises. However it is first by number of database installs because of use on OSS websites. Very few enterprises use MySQL as primary DB platform of choice though. That's why MS SQL is number one by actual users, and second by revenue.

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Anonymous Coward

"Just an alternative prison."

It's a lot less like a prison than in Oracle's world!

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"C-pound"

Just because you don't have a ♯ key on your keyboard doesn't mean you get to rename the language. And, for the record, this - £ - is a pound.

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> > "Pretty much everyone uses MS SQL in enterprise greenfield sites these days"

> Erm - references, please?? (can't find an appropriate icon)

"Green" as in "wet behind the ears", I think.

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> Just because you don't have a ♯ key on your keyboard doesn't mean you get to rename the language.

> And, for the record, this - £ - is a pound.

Also for the record, C# is a hash.

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I realize that you may not consider American to be a valid language, but it is true nonetheless that the '#' symbol is commonly called a "pound sign" here in the US (because it is commonly used in many industries to mean the unit of weight).

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Thanks jaywin

For a couple of seconds I didn't know if Bom. Bob was using something I'd never heard of. Then I realised and thought -- really? No can do C#?!?

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Anonymous Coward

"It's a lot less like a prison than in Oracle's world!"

Only just. Oracle is hardly a benchmark worth comparing to.

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Anonymous Coward

"Because they are prisoners of history. Pretty much everyone uses MS SQL in enterprise greenfield sites these days. No one sane uses Oracle out of choice."

Prisoners of history also use MS SQL - two peas of the same pod. The only thing that has made MS SQL so popular are lazy devs/companies who haven't used anything not made by Microsoft (i.e. typical 'enterprise' apps). Those not stuck with legacy software use PostgreSQL rather than either of the above two.

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Ignoring the sailing-enthusiast elephant in the room it seems! Probably a mistake, as if you like them or not (usually the latter), it's usually quite difficult to forget said elephant.

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Well there are also missing dBase and Paradox

I'm sure both are in the same range as Oracle. I mean one rarely hears about Oracle after they lots that gig providing Teletext to ITV.

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Devil

Re: Well there are also missing dBase and Paradox

and Clipper. can't forget Clipper!

and I once saw this pile of garbage called "nutshell" back in the diskette+IBM XT days - it was SO slow, I think a C64 attempting to run Oracle in a VM would be faster...

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Anonymous Coward

They probably had to pay a licence to include it on the survey.

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Anonymous Coward

SO surveys

Finally, a Stack Overflow survey that doesn't allow adding arbitrary entries. typically I'd expect the list to include:

Oracle

OrICKle

Oracle 12.0.0.1

Oracle 12

Oraacle 12c

SAP

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"the Oracle-developed, but open-source MySQL"

You misspelled purchased.

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Malicious

Oracle claims a blunder up is malicious.

Projection much?

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This will go off-topic, sorry...

I am getting so fed up with many sections of the populace that complain about non-inclusivity; this does not apply to access for the disabled or anything similar, it is about those complaining or wishing to force things being included in surveys or the "fact" that some companies are shoved into positions where they have to do/say/acknowledge* all.

I, myself, am disabled yet I don't worry about access issues or, being a vegetarian (that is not my disablilty) nothing of interest on menus et.c. What really annoys me and grinds my gears (thanks Homer) is being told to do something which is completely contrary to logic - why should I have to have a certain number of females on my board, why should I need to employ BAME?

I want to employ people based on merit and their skillsets, if that means all my staff are black single-mothers in wheelchairs then that is fine by me - I will NEVER accept being forced to employ anyone by the gubbermint just so they can hit their own targets.

The above all boils down to - if Oracle is missed off the survey who gives a flying? It is an SO survey and they can do whatever the hell they want.

End of rant and I am prepared for the flack.

*whatever

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Re: This will go off-topic, sorry...

I am fed up of people being fed up with others being fed up.

I'm certainly not!

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Re: This will go off-topic, sorry...

@Geoffrey:

I'd rather just be fed than fed up. But it has been four hours since lunch....

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Joke

Re: This will go off-topic, sorry...

To whom it may concern.

I am most certainly fed up with the people being fed up with others being fed up with being fed up, and I am seriously concerned about this line of commentary.

Signed: B F Problems, Major (U.S. Army, retired)

[need 'Python' icon]

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Re: This will go off-topic, sorry...

I'm fed up with people who can't be bothered to get fed up.

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Really?

Do these people take such surveys so seriously they worry about not being able to tick some box?

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Re: Really?

https://xkcd.com/386/

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Re: Really?

Only as seriously as the myriads that take the survey as gospel when the results come out.

"OMG! SQL Server is down 0.8% .... Going out of business !!!! Run ! Run !"

etc etc etc. That's my guess as to why Oracle folks kicked up a stink

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Oracle is now on the survey

I am a data scientist at Stack Overflow working on this survey, and Oracle has been back on our survey since early this morning. There was an error on our part and we apologize. It was absolutely not purposeful or malicious, especially since Oracle is a client of ours. I am going to be handling the analysis of this question carefully (looking at the responses from the 1st day separately from the rest) to be as accurate as possible. We have not received any emails or contacts; please reach out to press@stackoverflow.com for confirmation and to update this post.

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(Written by Reg staff)

Re: Oracle is now on the survey

Hi Julia,

Thanks for your message. We dropped press@ an email in the morning (UK time) before we published to ask for comment, and said we'd happily update the piece with it when you got back to us. I've forwarded the request to your email.

The story's also now been updated.

Cheers!

Beki

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Re: Oracle is now on the survey

OK, but where's the "Don't know" option? Surely every online survey has to have one. For those mysterious people who willingly use their time to take part in online surveys and choose this option.

Plus it'd be just as hilarious to watch the over the top reaction its' appearance would cause as it has been to watch the reaction to the omission of Oracle.

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So update already

They've added Oracle and apologized. https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/361588/take-the-2018-developer-survey/361597#comment546628_361597

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Poor Oracle

Even North Korea is in the survey.

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Anonymous Coward

The only thing worse than using Oracle...

...is having to pay for Oracle

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Ohh and don't forget REDABAS

The "Relationales Datenbanksystem" from Robotron from the GDR. It was 100% compatible to dBase II (and later III). Even the binary offsets usually were the same.

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Forget Oracle

The survey also omits SQLite.

Last year (according to the pic in the article) Oracle was used by 16%, SQLite by 26%. Methinks omitting SQLite this year was the greater oversight.

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Re: Forget Oracle

Moving most of services on my personal systems from MariaDB to SQLite is one of my New Year resolutions. Definitely deserves higher visibility.

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