back to article Brazil says it has bagged Royal Navy flagship HMS Ocean for £84m

The flagship of the Royal Navy, HMS Ocean, has been sold to Brazil for £84m, the South American country’s government has confirmed. The 22,000-tonne helicopter carrier, which returned from her last British deployment to the Caribbean just weeks ago, will be formally decommissioned from the RN in spring this year. Although it …

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Brazil?

That’s just nuts...

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I wouldn't say so.

The Brazilians could definitely put a landing strip on top of it if they wanted.

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Anonymous Coward

Best not to wax it though, the planes could slip off.

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That's not even half an F35 unless the price has now dropped from £174m each.

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The original (retail?) price tag on the entire ship was less than an F35. Quite a lot of metal for your money , comparatively.

As I always like to quote Government spending in terms of monthly national debt interest payments - The cash we have gained from the sale is 0.024 of an NDIP. If we sell 41 similar ships we can pay our national debt interest for 1 month. . . one.

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Argentina

Better Brazil than Turkey. But Argentina didn't bid?

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I typically translate the national debt interest repayments (approx £43Bn*) into Wembley stadiums (appox £800M).

Roughly we could build a new Wembley stadium every week all year long, a new one in every city in England (51) in a year. That's how much money the gov't gives away servicing (not decreasing) ours, our parents', and our grandparents' debt.

How much debt interest will we saddle on our children and grandchildren I wonder? An aircraft carrier (£6.2Bn) a month perhaps?

*When interest rates were higher, IIRC this figure was over £50Bn pa.

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Whats in a name

I can remember when Ocean was commissioned, the first ship in a while not to be named after a city. There were several letters in The Telegraph along the lines of 'We used to call our ships Victory and Murderer and WarBastard. Why is this HMS Ocean? What next, HMS Badger?'. I'm not sure what Ocean is going to be replaced with. Probable one of the two aircraft carriers with no aircraft to fly.

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Re: Whats in a name

HMS Unsinkable II?

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Re: Whats in a name

HMS Pansy served with distinction.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Whats in a name

HMS Badger sounds good as long as we have an HMS Mushroom and Snake.

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Re: Whats in a name

Troutbridge

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Re: Whats in a name

Some are apparently uneasy about a sale to Brazil given how cosy they have been with Argentina in the past. Rumours that the MoD will paint HMS Iron Lady on the side before delivery have been denied...

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Re: Whats in a name

When the RN was at it's zenith, warships were named after all sorts of things. The before mentioned HMS Pansy was almost certainly a Flower class corvette, all of which were named after, um, flowers.

It used to be that capital warships were named after famous people, characters from mythology, or an adjective (like Victorious).

Lesser ships have been named after all sorts of things, like counties, towns, and as you get down to the more numerous ships which followed a letter (destroyers, frigates etc.) like the Amazon class all started with "A", with names from all sorts of word category (e.g. Amazon, Antelope, Ambuscade, Arrow, Active, Alacrity, Ardent, Avenger).

With the smaller number of warships recently, there has been a desire to keep certain names going (for example Victorious, Vanguard, Audacious, and Ajax), although for submarines, they are apparently following letters as well.

IIRC, Ocean was quite unusual, as there had only been one previous HMS Ocean, which was a Colossus class aircraft carrier.

One interesting part of Royal Navy tradition is that battle honors for namesake ships are carried across to the new ship, and I believe that the wardroom silver- and crystal-ware is also moved to the new ship.

If this is the case, you can imagine there having to be significant storage space for the wares from all the ship names that are no longer in use!

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Re: Whats in a name

Matthew Smith,

Seems an odd name to complain about.

The Royal Navy has a whole bunch of historical names, and a lot fewer ships to pin them on. But a quick check online shows that Ocean is a traditional capital ship name - and was used on wooden ships of the line, then a pre-dreadnought battleship and then a WWII carrier.

The capital ship names now get used for big stuff like carriers and also submarines (mostly). Though the latest Astute class are using traditional old sub names. But the S and T classes that preceeded were all traditional battleship names.

It used to be that light cruisers got city names and heavy ones got the county names - while destroyers were a mixed bag of different ones, often starting with the same letter. Or classical mythology. Then in WWII we had the Flower class corvettes.

Now they pick a rule and some old favourites when they launch a new class of ships - so the Type 23s were all counties, the Type 42s were cities, the Type 22s were traditional destroyer names beginning with B. The Type 45s are D names.

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Re: Whats in a name

On the other hand "Big Liz" is a great name.

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Pint

Re: Whats in a name

I know this has been done to death by now...but...HMS Boaty McBoatface

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Re: Whats in a name

We'd have to have loads of identical ships named Badger though...

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Re: Whats in a name

"IIRC, Ocean was quite unusual, as there had only been one previous HMS Ocean,"

There have been 5 previous Oceans, the Colossus class was the last previous one (if that makes sense).

The first was launched in 1761

More info here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Ocean

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Re: Whats in a name

It's not a boat, it's a ship. Hence the "S" in HMS.

Although submarines aren't called HMB, and they are boats.

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Re: Whats in a name

"We'd have to have loads of identical ships named Badger though..."

Great... stealth naming! Nobody on the enemy side would be able to determine which ship we were discussing! It would also help in obscuring financial package details for the ships, as nobody which know which was which!

"I'm afraid to report, Sir, that HMS Boat has sunk. But HMS Boat will be picking up the survivors along with an escort of HMS Boat and HMS Boat. The investigators are already loaded on HMS Boat and headed to recover HMS Boat now".

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Re: Whats in a name

It's not a boat, it's a ship. Hence the "S" in HMS.

Although submarines aren't called HMB, and they are boats.

I'd assumed that the 'S' stood for submarine in the case of subs

(Also note that a number of shore establishments, AKA stone frigates, carry the "HMS" designation, e.g. HMS Raleigh, HMS Calliope)

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Re: Whats in a name

It's not a boat, it's a ship. Hence the "S" in HMS.

So you're suggesting that Tigra 07 should have proposed Shippy McShippyFace instead?

That's not a bad tongue twister... :p

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Re: Whats in a name

And the next one is going to be called "Big Charlie" ...

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Re: Whats in a name

"Big Chaz", shirley?

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Re: Whats in a name

'HMS Chazzer' would be more in keeping with modern culture ...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Whats in a name

A ship like that would need a Rear Admiral.

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Trollface

Re: Whats in a name

Ok, smarty McPantface - How about Shippy McShipface?

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Go

"Big Charlie" ...

I'll see your Big Charlie and raise you "Right Charlie".

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Whats in a name

>Some are apparently uneasy about a sale to Brazil

Who? We've been selling them our frigates for years.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_of_the_Brazilian_Navy

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Re: Whats in a name

"the latest Astute class are using traditional old sub names"

HMS Audacious (used on one of the Astute boats) was the original name for aircraft carrier R05 HMS Eagle, and was to be the class name for Eagle and her sisters.

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Trollface

Re: Whats in a name

It's not a boat, it's a ship. Hence the "S" in HMS.

Although submarines aren't called HMB, and they are boats.

So whats a boat called?

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Re: Whats in a name - I prefer the Banksian naming convention

Can we not get some appropriately named ships please - they are WARships!

Iain M Banks had it exactly right in the Culture series - a ship's name should reflect its personality. Or for ships not exhibiting actual sentience (and choosing their own name) yet, how the RN want them perceived?

I'd like to start with HMS Really Vicious Bastard - any alternative offers?

Pint for Mr Banks, he's sorely missed by many & long may his writings live on! ->

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Re: Whats in a name

McBoatface, obvs.

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Re: Whats in a name

The RN has had four warships called HMS Cockchafer

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TRT
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Re: Whats in a name: HMS Ocean.

I thought it was part of a private sponsorship deal... HMS Ocean Finance.

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Re: Whats in a name - I prefer the Banksian naming convention

By this logic and as a Banksian eastender whose uncle served on Ark Royal and Victorious during WWII and up to 1970

HMS "Don`t fuck with me or else"

That is a proper Shipname in that universe. and uncle Chas would approve if still here.

"Don`t start , it will hurt you more than me" also works if PC is more important than keeping things real.

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Re: Whats in a name

"Big Chaz", shirley?

Big Ears

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Re: Whats in a name

History says there was a Badger and a Snake... but no Mushroom, yet.

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Re: Whats in a name

I suspect the next will be HMS "Sea" followed by HMS "Pond"

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Re: Whats in a name

We seem to overlooking the potential for commercial sponsorship to help a stretched military budget.

This war is brought to you by HMS Aunt Bessy’s Frozen Yorkshire Puddings and the attack ship Capita.

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Re: Whats in a name

It's a great idea. But I for one am not volunteering to go aboard HMS Capita. It'll probably manage to sink itself. Or half of its own fleet.

HMS Rentokill?

In an Iain M Banks stylee, we should have a ship called HMS We're Only Here for the Booze.

I also really think it's tempting fate calling your ships things like HMS Invincible. Particularly considering what happened to it at Jutland. That's almost as bad as having an HMS Unsinkable.

We ought to have called one of the S class submarines HMS Surprise as well. Still, we could always have an HMS Boo!

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Re: Whats in a name

"We'd have to have loads of identical ships named Badger though..."

Nah, just the one, and move it around a lot because....austerity.

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Re: Whats in a name

"So whats a boat called?"

1. A target.

2. A marine speed bump.

3. A large enemy fleet that we can't outmatch.

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JLV
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Re: Whats in a name - I prefer the Banksian naming convention

damn, should have checked before my own post...

Attitude Adjuster, anyone?

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Re: Whats in a name

We'd have to have loads of identical ships named Badger though...

Good plan, we're all sett now

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Pint

Re: Whats in a name

We ought to have called one of the S class submarines HMS Surprise as well.

A pint for the late Mr O'Brian -->

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Re: Whats in a name - I prefer the Banksian naming convention

"I'd like to start with HMS Really Vicious Bastard - any alternative offers?"

HMS BOFH. Specialises in electronic warfare, stealthy "hit'n'run" and making enemies disappear mysteriously while making a profit.

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Re: Whats in a name - I prefer the Banksian naming convention

My vote would be for another "HMS Devastation", You know the ship on the front of the England's Glory matches (that are made in Sweden....)

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