back to article From the graaaaaave! WileyFox's Windows 10 phone delayed again

WileyFox's Windows 10 Mobile – yes, you read that correctly – has been delayed again, and will now bump into Santa doing his rounds early. The catchily named "Wileyfox Pro with Windows 10" phone was announced in August, and WileyFox is sure that it can profit from Microsoft's neglect of its Windows phone customers. Over at the …

Anonymous Coward

Only but if you like shit customer service.

I really, really wanted to like Wileyfox. I was a very early adopter (more fool me). But non-existent customer support, a shit website registration process, and failure to honour purchase promises means I can only advise to steer well clear.

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Re: Only but if you like shit customer service.

Never dealt with customer support, but I had a Spark X for 6 months until it completely died. Up until then it was crashing every few hours, becoming unresponsive. The final straw was when it decided it would ring when a call was coming in, but it wouldn't show me the controls or anything on the screen for me to accept the call. Not ideal when you're getting married and trying to organise suppliers and guests etc.

Threw it in to the river the day after the wedding, and I'm slumming it with a 4 year old iPhone 5S.

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Re: Only but if you like shit customer service.

I've got a Swift X, and I must say its had multiple updates in the last 4 months. I didn't like the Truephone dialer and when I complained (because for some reason I couldnt find the Google dialer to download) customer service sent me the correct apk.

The latest update has fixed the only issue I had with the phone, which was that the signal strength was noticably worse than the Zenfone 2 I had previously. Battery life seems great.

The launcher seems inoffensive, but I aways swap out for the Google launcher, so I can't comment too much.

I'd have no problem recommending a Wileyfox to friends or family based on my experience.

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Re: Getting rid of Truephone

You can do that???

I can find the google dialler on the playstore but it says I can't use it on my phone. I can find the apk elsewhere, but I don't trust those places.

Wileyfox sent you an APK for the google dialler? I will have to e-mail them about that.

As for the Foxhole launcher, I hated the drawer after the upgrade to Android 7. No more letter bar. The letter bar was fiddly (close-spaced along the bottom) but still good. So I went for Jina as a drawer. Jina has a letter bar down the side (less fiddly). But Foxhole wouldn't let me swap the drawer app. Which led me to install the Nova launcher, just so I could use Jina as the drawer app.

The only thing that leaves me unhappy is Truephone, and you've just given me hope...

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Re: Only but if you like s**t customer service.

never bothered with customer service, but my swift is pretty crap after 2 ota "updates". screen a mess plus it shuts down when charging. also micro sd card pretty much useless, nothing much seems able to write to it now.

wouldn't get another one, daughter picked up an out of date sony for the same sort of price, will go that route myself come the day.

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Re: Only but if you like shit customer service.

I can't remember which model we purchased as a test for work mobiles, but if you had wifi active, you could practically see the battery going down.

They wouldn't last a 7hr shift, never mind a weekend on call.

It was awful.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Only but if you like shit customer service.

did you by any chance have a screen protector fitted?

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Re: Getting rid of Truephone

It hadn't occurred to me either. My Spark X was no worse than the average budget Android with the exception of TrueCaller in the 7.0 update which was completely unusable unless, I think, you agreed to let them have a copy of all your contacts or something like that.

It's a moot point now because as of yesterday I'm the owner of a shiny new RedMi 4X (global) which is way faster than just about anything else in the sub £140 range.

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Re: Only but if you like shit customer service.

Oh, sounds like you didn't get your purchase rebate either.

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Re: Only but if you like shit customer service.

Same here. Desperately wanted to support a niche British company in this market and bought three Swift 2+s for my family. All three have failed big time on several occasions, and their warranty and customer service offering is worse than woeful. They ought simply to concentrate on sorting out their Android offerings; stretching an already overrun service offering to try to foster a further problem child seems to be commercial madness.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Only but if you like shit customer service.

We've got three in the family (slightly different models) but they all seem fine, no crashes, no problems and regular updates.

We don't use Truecaller though.

I can only speak as I find but at the moment I would buy another one.

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Just why ......

Really ......

Commercial suicide.

Only a handful of people wanted WM even when the big boys were behind it.

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Re: Just why ......

They are betting there are enough companies still wanting them (We had them. not burned to much as they were still cheaper than the android and idevice handsets we now have to purchase).

I can't see them making a profit which is probably why they are delaying it more and more.

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Re: Just why ......

I'm betting there was an incentive from Redmond…

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Re: Just why ......

Disagree - I'm on my third WinPho, and I'm going to miss it when it dies. The UI is great, the platform is stable, the merging of mailboxen and calendars and contacts from different sources without faffing about with dozens of third-party addons is fab. It doesn't seem to be near as leaky as Android, and you get good usability without paying the Cupertino idiot tax.

What's not to like? Well, lack of apps - even Microsoft's own (Dynamics) don't seem to be well-supported. Not a real problem for me, but perhaps I'm undemanding. Biggest worry is the fact that the platform is dying a slow death.

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Re: Just why ......

I wish it had worked out too :(

Even if only to have another choice of phone.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Just why ......

"I'm betting there was an incentive from Redmond…"

I doubt it, they have publicly stated it's dead.

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Re: Just why ......

I agree - I really like the WinPhone system, the machines themselves have been solid (although my 950XL is not as nice to hold as my old 800...), the interface is good, and it's stable. I don't use many Apps, so the state of the Store is

There are, now, alas, bugs which I don't think will be ever fixed (e.g. Edge streaming music behind the lockscreen - techsupport says do a factory reset, which works...until the phone updates...), so I think when this machine gives up the ghost, I'll be cast out into the place of wailing and gnashing of teeth, i.e. I'll get an Android, and be one of the crowd...

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Re: Just why ......

@Edwin The people have chosen, I don't agree with them as BB10 was brilliant as far as I was concerned, for work yes Windows Phone did the job.

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Devil

Re: Just why ......

@Edwin The people are even downvoting and not responding why (I bet its someone who didn't like my stance of "Why are we going to pay £400 for an iphone when we can get a decent Windows phone for £100" a few years ago.)

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Happy

Re: Just why ......

There's a similarity to the VHS/Betamax war here - WinPho lost not on technical merit, but on commercial maneuvering and a lack of willpower on the part of Microsoft to really put some effort into it, such as releasing it under similar licensing conditions to Android and not providing a nice, simple piece of reference hardware.

The past five years have seen the destruction of a tremendous number of hardware and software platforms, largely due to ineptitude of the companies making them. Blackberry, Nokia, Symbian, Motorola, Microsoft and - probably - Sony.

It's sad, but I maintain hope that sooner or later something else will come along that gives IOS quality without the IOS pricetag and walled garden.

PS: Have an upvote ;)

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""Wileyfox Pro"

Sounds like a cunning but elderly database system.

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That sells itself to the highest bidder at half hourly intervals...

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FAIL

I think only the truly desperate are buying winmob.

We bought in heavily and are now paying the pricing having to shift over to android.

Winmob actually worked well for us for it's purpose but lack of supply and support means we're escaping as fast as contracts allow.

Personally I liked the OS but again lack of support was the killer.

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My place has Blackberries, Winphones, iPhones and ruggedised Samsungs.

Guess which ones give us no problems, everyone can use, never break/smash/crack, are easy to manage and lockdown, are cheap, modern, able to run most things, and which almost everyone is immediately familiar with the interface of even if they've never used one before (hint: No, not the iPhone, by a LONG shot).

Guess which ones are in my bin of replacements? Guess which ones we're retiring as fast as we can? Guess which ones get no signal at all? Guess which ones I have a box of that we basically can't get rid of? Guess what overpriced-famous-brand-of-tablet/PC-hybrid they're sitting on top of that we also couldn't palm off on anyone once they actually started trying to use it?

I can't figure out what people ever saw in Winphones or Surfaces, I honestly could not use them and noticed so many problems with them on day one, let alone after a year of testing, and yet people still bought them. I'd be quite glad to just throw the lot in the bin and only keep the Samsungs.

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I suppose it's down to personal preference. I really like my 640XL. I like the Calendar integration with Outlook, I like the camera quality, I find it's fast enough for my needs and I like how it syncs with my Win10 tablet and Win8 laptop.

I have a couple of clients who RAVE about their Windows phones. One I saw a few weeks ago said it was the best phone she'd ever had (she has a Lumia 950XL). I was very surprised because I thought it was only me that liked it.

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Hardware a bit dodgy

It turned out the free screen plastic was a fix, when you eventually took it off because it started peeling off at the edges, the touch sensitivity went a bit odd during sudden changes of temperature or charging and you turned into a grandad trying to prod at the screen.

The compass spins round more than David Davis and Juncker at an EU negotiating table.

LED buttons tended to stop lighting up, although I've not seen this happen with mine.

Battery lasts about half a day now after a couple of years.

Maybe they've got their white label manufacturer more under control now, but my next one is a Nokia.

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Re: Hardware a bit dodgy

Ours (work test device) was very crash prone. The battery or power management was on a whole other level of poor though.

Mobile data only it lasted the day easily, connected to wifi and it was flat before the end of a normal shift at work.

Due to this we didn't even attempt to look into the crashing etc.

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Alien

Plan 9 from Windows Space

"Why is it so important that you want to continue making Windows phones?"

"Because all you of Earth are idiots."

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Anonymous Coward

What could possibly go wrong?

If HP couldn't make it work, what makes WilleyFox think they can?

Any business thinking of this must be absolute bonkers...

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Re: What could possibly go wrong?

Any business thinking of this must be absolute bonkers...

I think WileyFox must be bonkers - the sorts of big corporate IT shops that threw in their lot with Windows Phone are most unlikely to trust what to their board and senior managers is an unheard of phone maker and for that matter, a virtual phone maker, who contract out assembly to people we've probably never heard of (I doubt they use the Foxconns and the like that Apple can).

And as much as anything, those corporate IT shops are licking some brutal reputational wounds after telling their directors and the whole company that WIndows Phone was the future, only for Microsoft to chuck in the towel. They aren't going to give it another chance, using unproven hardware from a company with no track record in corporate IT.

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Re: What could possibly go wrong?

Think market niches. If you want to get a slice of the mobile market, what are your choices?

Basically, Android or not-Android. If Android, then you're competing with *huge* players, and several of them. Huawei, Motorola, Lenovo, Oppo. You think you can do it better than all of them, or cheaper? Yeah, right.

Or not-Android. Then you can try to roll your own, a la Apple or Samsung, and good luck with that (Blackberry and Nokia have been there before you, and their experience is not encouraging); or you can identify another minority platform that might fit an under-served market niche. Windows is out there. For all its faults, it's got millions of developer-hours and a huge user-experience base behind it. It's a very logical choice.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What could possibly go wrong?

I agree with the commentator completely.

I worked for an organisation which plumped for the Lumia 640 as the base phone we purchased an mdm solution which was partnered with Microsoft but couldn't manage all the policies we wanted on the phone. After several months Microsoft stated that win mobile 10 was the answer. We joined the insider program and had a hugely successful trial of Win10 on the Lumia 640. We could apply the MDM policies to get the lockdown we needed, it worked faultless with mail, office and web browsing, kept good battery life and seemed to extend the life of the handsets by another couple of years at least. When the long delayed Win10 was release they refused to make it available for the 640 so we had to bin themas they would no longer get security updates.

luckily we had already switched to buying 650's by then so I only had do dispose of 300 rather than 1100 so it was only a £64,000 hit.

I have had similar issues on other handsets in the past but always managed to negotiate a supplier buyback which allowed me to demonstrate that the loss we made was fair payment for the usage we had had from the handsets before we had to obsolete them. Microsoft wouldn't offer any form of recompense.

The end result was a bloody embarrassing board meeting where we had to grovel for the £64K to replace the 640's but could at least promise the execs that win mobile was a viable long term solution. Tthen 18 months later MS tell us the operating system wont be developed any further.

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Storming

I bought a WIleyFox storm when they first came out and still have it. One reason was Cyanogen Mod nw sadly no more, but WileyFox have issued their own updates and it still works fine.

I wouldn't want WinPhone anymore than I want Google, but I understand some companies have built their team working methods around it and I guess there might be cash to be made providing a WinPhone at least until these companies decide what to do long term.

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The main customer base for WinPhones

Seems to be nepotism hires who have no idea that they have no idea what they are doing.

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Where's Elop when you need him

Someone call the fire brigade - the burning platform is still smouldering.

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Re: Where's Elop when you need him

Working at Telstra, being a good middle manager....

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Mine is ok.

I needed a dual-sim smartphone and went for a Swift. Overall no problems although the battery suffers in the Swedish winter but I still get pretty decent life out of it, especially with Wi-fi and 4G off. I've had maybe one crash per year? For how cheap it was I am pretty pleased, especially considering how often I have dropped it.

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Anonymous Coward

Also needed a dual sim phone, on my second wiley fox phone now, better than the HTC I had.

Recent updates seemed to have helped stability.

Seemed to have issues with my phone the other day but was just the screen protector causing issues. Removed it and all fine.

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Wileyfox phones are good for cheap phones, I have bought my son 2 SWIFT devices now.

However the comments on customer service are true for any phone manufacturer I have used. Chinese phones have no customer service period.

I had an issue with my SWIFT and Wileyfox told me to install a new firmware which bricked the phone.

They then told me I had to send it to them to fix, which I did.

They sent it back with a broken screen. Which then resulted in me having to argue with them about them replacing it, they tried to charge me.

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Where do people get their news from? This article isn't true in the slightest funnily I've received 30 WileFox Pro W10 handsets over a week ago and had one for a while. Not sure what people expect as regards to power but as a smartphone, using MS Office apps or reading emails, browsing and calendar work more efficiently than Microsoft's last mid range Windows 10 phone (Lumia 650). It looks better than the Lumia 650 too, so it's worth checking out. had no issues whatsoever and intend on getting more of them.

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