back to article Facebook's send-us-your-nudes service is coming to UK, America

Facebook has begun conducting a pilot where it solicits intimate photographs of women – and it will soon offer the service in the United Kingdom as well as the US. Anxious exes who fear their former partner is set on revenge porn will be urged to upload photographs of themselves nude. A hash of the nude image is created and …

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Why...

Don't they provide a hashing program and ask for hashes of pictures you don't want published...

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Re: Why...

That was my first thought too.

But then I suppose you get into the issue of what is to stop someone hashing photographs of other people? Or of legitimate adult performers, or even non-humans?

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Re: Why...

If they're saying it's completely automated then they carry the same risk even when you upload for hashing (could you, for instance, upload a bunch of Trump images?).

There'll be hell to pay, though, if they fuck this up and it turns out to be leaky

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TRT
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Re: Why...

Is there a job going then, where these images are vetted by a human for inclusion in the barring scheme?

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Re: Why...

Because then it's easy to automate a program that takes your revenge porn and makes tiny changes so that it's not recognised by the magic algorithm, but still shows all of your unmentionables.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Why...

because facebook pass pictures to the news people when asked and nude pictures are worth more.

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Boffin

Re: Why...

Doubt that would work, since you could just change one pixel and the hash would change. Meaning you could have 2,000 separate hashes for the same image.

For example, services that flag child pornography when it's uploaded use a special software (PhotoDNA) which converts the image to grayscale, then breaks it down into a grid and calculates a number per grid until they wind up with something like 1000,481,0,0,251..., meaning that modifying the image is pointless.

People would be better off getting the numerical sum of their nudes with that.

But the problem with that is, regular people aren't allowed access to that software unless they're a LEA or popular service like Facebook. (Which sucks, as I have a large anime artwork collection I'd love to sort through far more easily to remove duplicates.)

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Paris Hilton

Re: Why...

@TRT

Not enough mind bleach in the universe to take this job. Sure, there are gorgeous nude pics out there, but I have to think there is a much larger percentage of photos nobody should see..

Paris because...

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TRT
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Re: Why...

@chivo243

Fortunately, my memory is starting to go. Or at least that's what I tell people. ;)

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Coat

Re: Why...

Is there a job going then, where these images are vetted by a human for inclusion in the barring scheme?

Might be... I wonder how many applicants they'll have. Will FB pay the vetters or will they have to pay FB for the privilege much like the old Woody Allen movie?

Icon... I'm checking my pockets for change just in case.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Why...

Do they need any volunteers to check the quality of the uploads?

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Re: Why...

But the problem with that is, regular people aren't allowed access to that software unless they're a LEA or popular service like Facebook. (Which sucks, as I have a large anime artwork collection I'd love to sort through far more easily to remove duplicates.)

https://github.com/opennota/findimagedupes

You're welcome.

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Re: Why...

Are Facebook hiring? They're not a bad company after all.

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Re: Why...

It would pose difficulties if they wished to switch to a better hashing algorithm later on. Also, a perceptual hash would lead to a *huge* number of false positives on its own - they probably want the full image on file for verification.

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Re: Why...

Pics!

Or it didn’t happen!

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Re: Why...

So let's get this clear. One of the world's largest marketing concerns wants everyone to upload naked pictures of themselves in order to help prevent revenge porn? What is the ratio between the number of sex pests versus the expected actual image upload?

This reeks to me of "You are all just sheep who will do exactly what we tell you to do, now shut up and upload your naked selfie"

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Re: Why...

That's no excuse. They could easily do that check at the point they find a clash. The whole point of this nonsense is that they're supposed to be detecting when another matching image is uploaded in the clear.

Either way, you can try uploading someone else's photo and, either way, at the point they're considering removing it they'll be able to see it. The difference is that if you hash it yourself on your own machine, they can't see it if nobody uploads it in the clear.

I cannot believe that this protocol is being seriously suggested as a way of protecting people's privacy.

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What could possibly go wrong?

Fortunately, no-one would want to be exposed to my back-end infrastructure.

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Joke

Re: What could possibly go wrong?

Mmm, I'm a front end developer.

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Re: What could possibly go wrong?

Fortunately, no-one would want to be exposed to my back-end infrastructure.

From what little I've seen, there's no (back) end to the segmented interests of the web. There's probably armies of people who'd want to take a gander at your back passage, or mine. Now there's a thought for those supping on warm cocoa.

Out of shame rather than modesty, I won't be sharing pictures of my bits with Facebook: the list of less trustworthy organisations is about one long. Not to mention that I don't have an FB account. For those who do have an FB account, make sure Zuck uploads pics of his own nether regions first.

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Re: What could possibly go wrong?

Oh indeed, there are people who want nothing more than pictures of your naked feet. Who don't want to see the whole breast, just cleavage in closeup.

Pron really does cater for the niche groups. Back before all this there were peeping Toms. Now there is no need.

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TRT
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"This lets the victim take control and be proactive in their own safety,"

Is this some sort of perverted version of blaming the victim?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "This lets the victim take control and be proactive in their own safety,"

Sounds like it.

The solution is simple, never take photos of yourself nude and never let your "friend" take pictures of you nude...

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Re: "This lets the victim take control and be proactive in their own safety,"

@TRT

I came to say something similar.

Until the person (male or female) has had those naked photos displayed/shown to people/uploaded without their consent, they are not a "victim" of anything.

They are a person of whom a naked photograph exists. not a victim of anything at all.

While i'm 100% against such things, the language used here is odd. You can't preemptively "be a victim". You're not a victim unless the naughty photos (which are normally taken WITH consent) are then shared minus the consent.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "This lets the victim take control and be proactive in their own safety,"

"The solution is simple, never take photos of yourself nude and never let your "friend" take pictures of you nude."

...and women shouldn't wear ripped jeans, or walk alone after dark. Better still put them in a burka - even when having a bath. See where such apparently self-imposed restrictions lead?

There's nothing wrong with the sight of the naked human body - except in the minds of those who have been conditioned to be disturbed by their own "dark" thoughts. The blackmailers - for that is what they are - are handed their weapon by society's likely condemnation of their victim.

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TRT
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Re: "society's likely condemnation of their victim"

Whilst this might be true, it really is up to me what I want done with images of me, isn't it? And if I want to wear a burka, why not? I don't think it's a question of societal condemnation - I mean, there's lot of society that condemns wearing a burka, right? But I'm not bothered if someone posts a picture of me doing that online - revenge ultraconservatism. Right on!

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Re: never take photos of yourself nude and never let your "friend" take pictures of you nude..

Can't upvote enough.

The FB solution is stupid and will leak!

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Re: "...and women shouldn't wear ripped jeans, or walk alone after dark.

Absolutely STUPID comparison.

"There's nothing wrong with the sight of the naked human body".

However if you don't want YOUR naked body online, don't give anyone a copy and don't store it in the cloud etc. You'd not parade naked on your front lawn? Or sit in the window naked?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "...and women shouldn't wear ripped jeans, or walk alone after dark.

"You'd not parade naked on your front lawn? "

It is not illegal in England & Wales jurisdictions. Any police action against a naturist is usually deemed "Public Order". You are apparently responsible if a neighbour threatens you with violence because of their own "dirty" thoughts.

The ripped jeans etc are examples where how women behave perfectly normally is deemed by some to be "asking for it". See example in Egypt recently.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "...and women shouldn't wear ripped jeans, or walk alone after dark.

I share the opinion that there's nothing innately shameful about the naked human body. Unfortunately a significant proportion of the populace think otherwise, and our legal system often tends towards the puritanical. If you have a naked picture leaked onto the internet you get to choose whether to brazen it out, or to accept the shaming that other members of society will inevitably try to fling your way - those are pretty much the only options.

Advising people not to allow naked pictures to be taken of them therefore isn't victim blaming, it's just good advice. The reality is that once there is a picture of you naked it's very easy to lose control over where that image ends up (whether that's by a "friend" leaking the image online, or a hacker exfiltrating the images). If you're OK taking that risk then go ahead - as long as you're an adult making an informed choice about it.

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Re: "...and women shouldn't wear ripped jeans, or walk alone after dark.

There isn't anything wrong with the naked human form. But I don't want pictures of my naked body circulating on the Internet, so I don't let anyone photograph me naked and I don't take any photos myself.

If other people want to make photos/films of themselves naked or having sex, that is their business, but it should be clear to them upfront, that those images might end up on the Internet. If they don't want those images plastered all over the 'Net for the rest of eternity, they should think twice before letting those photos/films be made...

Peephole cameras is something else, but you probably don't have them to upload to Faceplant in the first place. And, as others have said, hashing locally and uploading just the hash makes a lot more sense, although it will deprive the pervs at Faceplant of their jollies.

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Anonymous Coward

'you're a menace to society'

Send the photo hashed surely.... It can be verified using other means. But sending it to Facebook naked, WTF!.... Is it 'Black Mirror' time already???

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Facepalm

Dear Lord, the number of ways this could go wrong...

- Spoofed sites --> so people end up uploading there nude shots to a non-Facebook site

- Man in the middle attacks --> Pics get snaffled on the way to Facebook

- Hacks of Facebook --> Pics get grabbed at Facebook ("they dont store the pics" - my a$$ they dont! Who has ever heard of the Facebooks and Googles of the world EVER deleting ANYTHING!)

- misconfigured settings making the Pictures freely available --> Because that NEVER happens... *rolleyes*

Bugger me, this has so many Avenues for failure...

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Only someone as disfunctional as Zuk could have come up with this

This is wrong on so many levels - technical, human, legal and god knows what else.

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Black Helicopters

Re: Only someone as disfunctional as Zuk could have come up with this

You know what will happen next...

This only works for Facebook. The photo will have to be shared across across a common nude photo platform and made available to other social networks.

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Re: Only someone as disfunctional as Zuk could have come up with this

> The photo will have to be shared across across a common nude photo platform and made available to other social networks.

Are you suggested there should be a network standard for this?

The Common Naked Photo Interchange Protocol

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Re: Only someone as disfunctional as Zuk could have come up with this

The Common Naked Photo Interchange Protocol

You can do better than that!

Network Interchange Protocol Subverting Lewd Ill-will Photography.

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Re: Only someone as disfunctional as Zuk could have come up with this

The Common Naked Photo Interchange Protocol

Is that a point-to-point or a broadcast protocol ?

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Re: Only someone as disfunctional as Zuk could have come up with this

"Is that a point-to-point or a broadcast protocol ?"

It's an FTP protocol since everything in "The cloud" is potentially public and the repository will be hacked at some point.

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Facepalm

Deja vu

Reminds me of the time a museum - it might have been the Kensington Science Museum itself - set up an exhibit where people could type messages into a computer and have them displayed. Very new fangled stuff in those distant days. Somebody decided to compile a list of NSFW words so the computer could spot them and blank them out on the display. Then some bright spark - who is probably a tech billionaire by now - found the file and displayed its contents for all to see.

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Anonymous Coward

"they're not storing the image"

Sure, like you don't store everything f*cking else.

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"They're not storing the images" = We have asked our (overwhelmingly male i'd imagine) staff not to store these images. Please.

They all said they promise.

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"they're not storing the image"

Sure, like you don't store everything f*cking else.

Even if they actually don't (even by 'process failure'), you could be fairly sure some gov agency will be

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Anonymous Coward

And how does this square with the "Trans" thing of late ?

Just asking ?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: And how does this square with the "Trans" thing of late ?

As soon as I saw that comment, I knew a few bots would hit it.

"Trans" is another destabilising fad being pushed into the west at the moment.

COME ON BOTS: DO YOUR WORST.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: And how does this square with the "Trans" thing of late ?

As a trans bot, I am destabilising no one.

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Anonymous Coward

The Decepticon that wanted to be an Autobot

"COME ON BOTS: DO YOUR WORST."

Indeed, those Trans-Formers are robots in disguise.

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Worthless?

Whenever I upload a picture, I first crop and resize it. At that point what good is a hash of the original image?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Worthless?

Let's not get technical about this and point out the obvious.

Edit: Sorry I need to add sarcasm due to past mistakes.

Water is wet, cheese is yellow, Donald Trump is a really nice fellow, he talks he tweets but really he just talks sheet.

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Coat

Re: Worthless?

I have to crop my nudes, just saying.

Mines the dirty one with hole in the pockets

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