back to article For fanbois only? Face ID is turning punters off picking up an iPhone X

As Apple bloggers anxiously try to be positive about Apple's Face ID, a poll suggests potential customers may actually be repelled by the face-scanning technology. 20 per cent of respondents in a poll of over 2,000 Britons said they were less likely to upgrade to an iPhone X because of concerns with Apple's new face …

Page:

  1. Charlie Clark Silver badge
    Devil

    Smart Lock rulez

    Just thought I'd get some trolling in early. Face ID is a solution in search of a problem, Google's nudge-based approach is much better.

    1. The Man Who Fell To Earth Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: Smart Lock rulez

      It's a great solution for Law Enforcement, at least in the States.

      The courts have ruled very consistently that police can compel you to unlock a phone or computer if it's locked using biometrics. And of course, with biometrics like face recognition, they need your cooperation even less than with a fingerprint scanner, not that the bar there is very high either.

      This is just Apple's way of putting in a backdoor for Law Enforcement without having to call it one.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. ecarlseen
        WTF?

        Wrong.

        " And of course, with biometrics like face recognition, they need your cooperation even less than with a fingerprint scanner, not that the bar there is very high either."

        Except that you have to look at the phone ("attention detection") to unlock it. If you close or avert your eyes it won't unlock. This is better than fingerprint detection, which can be accomplished with a bit of physical coercion. You can't force somebody to look forwards, and even forcing their eyes open without blocking the recognition system would be a significant challenge.

        Maybe actually do a very slight amount of reading before engaging in armchair criticism? Oh wait, I forgot, this is the Internet...

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

          1. DrBobK
            Headmaster

            Re: Wrong.

            I would have thought that pupils like pinpricks and drooping eyelids might cause the face ID some problems...

        2. herman Silver badge

          Re: Wrong.

          Now, you can not only hold it wrong, you can also smile wrong. That could be security feature though: Frown at your phone to make it lock up.

      3. AdamWill

        Re: Smart Lock rulez

        Well, you sorta disproved your own point right there. Both a "mugger" and a "law enforcement official" (to take your example and the Reg's together) would have no trouble applying your finger to a fingerprint scanner. So I'm frankly not buying this argument at all.

        Now, the argument that it's less convenient and reliable than touch id was, that seems to be a goer.

        1. Mr_Happy

          Re: Smart Lock rulez

          Which of your fingers will they use? You tend to only have one face

          1. Yet Another Commentard

            Re: Smart Lock rulez

            I guess all politicians are safe then!

      4. This post has been deleted by its author

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Smart Lock rulez

        ". And of course, with biometrics like face recognition, they need your cooperation even less than with a fingerprint scanner"

        You think so?! Well good luck getting me to close my mouth / open my eyes / not grimace, etc. etc...

      6. fidodogbreath Silver badge

        Re: Smart Lock rulez

        The courts have ruled very consistently that police can compel you to unlock a phone or computer if it's locked using biometrics. [...] This is just Apple's way of putting in a backdoor for Law Enforcement without having to call it one.

        How is this argument specific to Apple? Samsung, Google, Moto, and many other devices also have fingerprint scanners, and/or more easily fooled facial recognition.

        It has been well established that biometrics are defeatable through a variety of techniques. Ditto for other convenience unlocks such as pattern match, 4-digit PINs, etc.

        No one is forcing you to use biometrics, or any other convenience login. Delete the training and turn off the feature. Problem solved.

    2. Stevie Silver badge

      Re: Face ID is a solution in search of a problem

      Nah, I reckon it's a problem in search of a phizzog.

  2. raving angry loony

    Smile?

    Great. So Apple is going from 'you're holding it wrong" to "you're bitchy resting face wrong". Or maybe they'll say "hey, you should smile. Or we won't let you use your fucking phone, bitch".

    Count me out.

    1. wallaby

      Re: Smile?

      Face facts though

      you could put a turd on a stick, pop an apple logo on it, and as long as you charge £1000 some of the fanbois will buy it

      Think of it as a tax on stupidity

  3. Chris 3
    Coat

    I think part of this may be lack of information... we'll see if that changes.

    Lots of jokes when FaceID was first launched about your partner being able to unlock your phone by holding it in front of your sleeping face etc. I've no doubt the unfamiliarity will be a barrier (TouchID was similarly a bit scary when it first launched).

    I don't have plans to get an X, and I'm not saying the system's good, however I don't think it is surprising that people are wary.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I think part of this may be lack of information... we'll see if that changes.

      Why is that a joke?

      And faceunlock is bad,. Is far less accurate with many more failed attempts, it's less secure, and 3x slower

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I feel sorry for all those pouting teenagers (more like gurning if you ask me) as they ain't never going to be able to unlock their phones.

    (Actually I lied, no I don't)

    If only they had a fingerprint scanner.

  5. BuddaBoy

    TouchID has same problem

    "anyone with the device and access to your face – such as a mugger or law enforcement official – can access you personal device. That's if you haven't entered a disabling key sequence in time."

    Same as a finger print then?

    1. WeeHeavy

      Re: TouchID has same problem

      I'll stick with an alphanumeric password I keep in my head. Though I can still be held in contempt of court for refusing to unlock the device, that's a bridge I can afford to worry about crossing some other time. This way makes it very expensive for others to unlock my phone without my help.

      Seems to me that fingerprints and facial recognition are not good ways to secure a device that is carried with the keys in plain view and easily accessed.

      1. DougS Silver badge

        Re: TouchID has same problem

        You're perfectly free to do that. The iPhone X offers Face ID, it doesn't require its use.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: TouchID has same problem

          Your post while full of common sense is like a red rag to a bull amongst the Apple naysayers who lurk here.

          It won't make any difference. You post (and this one) will garner downvotes.

        2. VinceH Silver badge
          Trollface

          Re: TouchID has same problem

          "You're perfectly free to do that. The iPhone X offers Face ID, it doesn't require its use."

          You're right - and as such (despite what the headline says), it's not the Face ID that's turning this punter off picking up a p-p-p-p-p-penguin an iPhone X.

          It's the fact that it's an iPhone.

          (Obvious troll is obvious)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: TouchID has same problem

        No need, we have you on cctv entering your code already.

  6. cbars

    Biometrics

    Just because the phone knows *I* am there, doesn't mean it knows *I want* my phone to unlock.

    My face, my fingerprint, my DNA just identify me, they are my username, MY VOICE IS NOT MY FUCKING PASSWORD

    Something you have and... nope, that's all you need.

  7. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Scroticus Canis Silver badge
      Headmaster

      Re: Apple Targetting Jim Henson's People.... "the Queens English"

      It's "the Queen's English", innit Shaddy me ol' china. :)

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Apple Targetting Jim Henson's People.... "the Queens English"

          It was presumably the English of other Queens as well

  8. JimmyPage Silver badge
    FAIL

    I was using FaceId (or whatever)

    on Android in 2014. Decided it wasn't really solving anything, so lost interest.

    3 years on, I really can't see anything has changed.

    With the nod to Henry Fords dismissal of customers desires, I'd wager that if Apple asked their customers what they really wanted in the next-gen iPhone, a better removable battery, and SD slot would have been way above "FaceID".

    But they didn't, and here we are.

    1. Packet

      Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

      I'm willing to bet money Apple customers do NOT want an SD slot.

      Even the Android lot have gone away from it.

      It's just another form of media that can go bad / be lost anytime and take your data with it.

      Much better / simpler to send that data to a cloud provider - either vendor provided or third-party.

      1. Lee D Silver badge

        Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

        Because cloud vendors never "go bad / be lost anytime and take your data with it."

        Also, as an extra added bonus, they can look through your photos any time you like.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

        I'm going to agree with you, a SD slot would be fucking stupid, have you seen the size of the cards?

        1. Paul

          Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

          SD card? surely an XQD card slot would be what the professional photographers need, so that they can pop the card out of their high end Nikon into their phone to email photos?

          1. Mark 110 Silver badge

            Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

            Expandable memory iis very very sensible. Not essential. But sensible.

            It means the base price of the phone doesn't need to accomodate the memory requirements of all users. I for example carry 100Gb of music around on my phone. So I stick a big SD card in to hold that music. My girlfriend who has the same model doesn't so she doesn't.

            As for holding that stufff in the cloud. Not much good if you are on a train in the UK and can't listen to anything because theres no mobile connectivity for at least 50% of your journey (and don't f'ing get me started on the supposedly wonderful train WiFi).

            1. Seajay#

              Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

              I'm sure that part of the reason why phone makers stopped allowing expandable storage is that it allows them to do market segmentation. Two different models of the phone with different amounts of storage and a price differential that's noticeably bigger than could be justified by the cost of the storage.

              1. Blank Reg Silver badge

                Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

                Yes, and none of that has anything to do with making things better for the customer, which of course is never part of the equation at Apple.

          2. katrinab Silver badge

            Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

            You can get a lightning adapter to do that. Only works with photos though, not anything else you might want to transfer to your phone.

          3. Craig100

            Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

            Don't those "hi end" Nikons have wifi?

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

        10 downvotes for a post full of common sense.

        but it won't.

        Pity.

        Still, there are the issues of the non removable battery and the headphone jack that they can beat Apple over the head with.

      4. fruitoftheloon
        WTF?

        @Packet: Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

        Packet,

        are you having a laugh or just not terribly bright???

        I mean, having quite a few GB of music stored (inaccessibly) in the cloud out here in the countryside just makes so much more sense than HAVING IT IN THE F'ING PHONE, doesn't it now?

        Has it ever occurred to you that some folk may have different reqs to you, e.g. I f'ing hate touchscreens, so guess what - my phone has a keyboard!?

        Cheers,

        Jay

  9. Fred the Dancing Wonder Pig

    Well, actually it works quite well...

    The entire setup was better than any device I've ever seen - seriously. Attention to detail and simplicity set a new bar.

    FaceIDs brilliant and haven't *yet* had an issue with it and by default, it doesn't unlock if you're not awake/attentive unless you deliberately disable it.

    queue morons who disable it and then lament about partners/"friends"/criminals stealing their details

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Well, actually it works quite well...

      cue morons....

      Sorry, couldn't resist.

    2. hplasm Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Well, actually it works quite well...

      "queue morons"

      The ones who queue up to buy the things?

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Real data?

    So, this is a survey of people who don't have it and haven't used it?

    Will be more interested to see a survey of 10,000 people after they have used it for a few months.

    1. 100113.1537

      Re: Real data?

      After they have forked out a grand to buy it do you really think they will say it sucks?

    2. CanadianMacFan

      Re: Real data?

      Since it was asking potential customers whether Face ID would impact their purchasing decision I'm guessing that they don't have the phone yet. /s

      I won't be buying it, or any phone, that has Face ID. Not because of the stuff that has been mentioned about the police and other people making you unlock your phone. I live in a place where a third of the year it's cold enough that my face needs to be protected from the cold when I go out. Unless I'm staying in a store for a while I stay wrapped up even on the bus. With using my fingerprint I can easily unlock my phone in the cold with just taking my glove off. I'll be damned if I have to uncover my face for anything that needs an ID.

      I know that I can enter the password but then what's the use of having something of to save me from entering the password when I can't use it all of the time like I could with the fingerprint ID?

      1. Captain DaFt

        Re: Real data?

        I know that I can enter the password but then what's the use of having something of to save me from entering the password when I can't use it all of the time like I could with the fingerprint ID?

        But the face ID doesn't require extra hardware to work like fingerprint ID. It's all just done in software.

        Apple's stance seems to be "if it can be done in software, screw the hardware! Hardware costs real money! Not just in the costs of the parts, but the costs to design, test and implement.

        It's why they've ditched the keyboard, buttons, ports and jacks.

        it's also why the battery is sealed in, one less part to design and integrate. (The battery cover)

        Just think of how much money they save per year on the phones ditching every conceivable part they can do away with!

        It's why every other phone maker emulates Apple, "How much can we save this year copying them?"

        Apple's genius here is spinning cost saving measures as "trendy and hip" features to the consumer.

        1. Hyper72

          Re: Real data?

          Well, Captain DaFt; FaceID requires an infrared camera and a dot projector that projects 30000 dots onto your face to create a 3D model (even in the dark) which is the handed over to a dual-core Neural engine and the authenticating secure enclave hardware that ensures the biometric data itself isn't leaked to the cloud, only authenticating tokens.

          So, it does require extra hardware. Quite a lot.

          Does it work well? I don't know, I haven't tried one, probably never will, let's see what people say after a few months. There was plenty of uproar when it was discovered by the chaos computer club that Touch ID could be bypassed using a time demanding process and sophisticated equipment.

          I would suggest using bio-metrics for the average use case, just like we use key for our front door, but stick with a complex passphrase if afraid of the NSA/FBI/KGB/etc.

Page:

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2019