back to article Ubuntu 17.10: We're coming GNOME! Plenty that's Artful in Aardvark, with a few Wayland wails

For the first time in recent memory, there are some very big changes in the latest release of Ubuntu: 17.10. And it's not all to do with going, er, GNOME. The new GNOME-based Ubuntu desktop The new GNOME-based Ubuntu desktop (click to enlarge) This release is the first since Canonical announced it would cease development of …

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  1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    Nice

    So now Ubuntu is also insecure by default.

    The biggest issue with the goatse.cx also known as Gnome is that 10+ of its key components including and proudly lead by the security ones - the keyring and the gpg/ssh agent will not terminate if you log out.

    So if you are having any delusions that your encrypted $HOME directory has been unmounted and is now inaccessible they are that - delusions. Gnome has taken care of that so that it is nicely easily accessible.

    Some of the bugs filed on that in Debian and Fedora are 5+ years old. The Gnome self-righteous crowd just does not give a f***. Your security is not our concern.

    Compared to that the systemd and desktopization malaise they have shovelled down our throat are relatively mild maladies by the way.

    1. James Dore
      Mushroom

      Re: Nice

      Use Kubuntu instead. None of that Gnome nonsense.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Nice

        Use Windows 10 instead. None of that RSI inducing command line nonsense...

        1. Teiwaz Silver badge

          Re: Nice

          Use i3wm - give your mouse to your cat for a while!!

          1. Jonathan 27 Bronze badge

            Re: Nice

            Hell, no. My mouse would be destroyed within an hour. My cat's already destroyed one computer mouse and if he gets his little paws on another it's sure to be destroyed.

        2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Nice

          "None of that RSI inducing command line nonsense."

          Nice to see there are still people who can follow scripts. Even if they can't write them.

        3. Avatar of They Silver badge
          FAIL

          Re: Nice

          **Cough** - POWERSHELL - **Cough**

      2. Fibbles

        Re: Nice

        You're all spelling XFCE wrong.

    2. oiseau Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: Nice

      Use PCLinuxOS instead.

      None of that systemd nonsense.

      There you go. =-)

      Cheers.

      1. td0s

        Re: Nice

        slackware ftw

        1. Chemical Bob
          Linux

          Re: Nice

          "slackware ftw"

          No, Bloody Stupid Linux FTW!

          http://bloodystupid.clockwatching.org/

  2. Tom 64
    Windows

    Gun, meet foot.

    What's now to differentiate between Ubuntu and Fedora, which works very nicely with weyland?

    1. wolfetone Silver badge

      Re: Gun, meet foot.

      Do you like your software downloads in .deb or .rpm?

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Gun, meet foot.

      "What's now to differentiate between Ubuntu and Fedora"

      apparently not much. Systemd, and now Wayland.

      icon, because, FACEPALM

      let's hope Mint and Debian have the decency to NOT go with Wayland. It takes away a specific feature that I find INCREDIBLY useful for a LOT of reasons, particularly with headless systems: It allows me to run a GUI that's hosted on one machine, and displayed on a different one. Works with X11, but _NOT_ with Wayland.

      And that's a DEAL BREAKER for ME.

      It also works pretty well with X11 if you have different logged-in users on the SAME box.

      Let's say you want to run Firefox *NOT* as the logged-in user. Let's say you're doing this for security reasons, and have a sandbox user specifically intended for this, with its own home directory, a cache that auto-purges [along with all history, cookies, etc.] when you exit, and NO group permissions on the login that might be a security problem. You see a somewhat suspicious sight (maybe on facebitch or twatter] that you dont' want a permanent cookie or script tracking you for whatever reason.

      OK so you log in with your "special" login using "su - special" (or whatever), then type in something like "export DISPLAY=localhost:0.0" into the command line [or put this in your login script, whatever] and then [after xhost +localhost from a console in the logged-in session] run firefox from the 'su -' shell, and VOILA! You're running firefox on the same X desktop as before, but logged in as someone else. It's NOT going to snoop on what you've got running elsewhere [it can't]. It's not going to start tracking other sites that happen to have the right magic javascript code, or the right invisible graphics on them, or the right 3rd party cookies. It's a completely separate process, running as a completely separate user.

      And I _like_ that.

      Or let's say I have a VM running that does the same thing. It's a VM on my machine, or maybe on a different machine. Whatever. I log into the VM via 'ssh' then run firefox in a similar way, displayed on MY DESKTOP, except it's running on the VM. Now I can visit those "dangerous" sites [or the ones that track the CRAP out of you], and when I'm done, the history goes BYBY! And I dont' have to close one of the 30 or so browser tabs that I leave open with the logged-in user.

      But try and do THAT with WAYLAND! G'head, g'head, try it! Oh, does NOT WORK???

      Well that just proves what a piece of **CRAP** that Wayland is, huh!

      Yeah, ubu, be like Micro-shaft and TAKE CAPABILITY AWAY. Or worse, change it around completely like systemd does. Yeah, THAT will "fix" things.

      At least you had the sensibility to abandon UNITY. And you support Mate installs, which is also good. But, when it comes to X11 vs WAYLAND, I think the choice is CLEAR for true power users. I'll keep my X11 thank you, and give it up when you PRY IT from my COLD, DEAD, FINGERS!

      1. Tomato Krill

        Re: Gun, meet foot.

        Mebbe you wanna think about spending less time surfing dodgy pron sites?

        1. DropBear Silver badge

          Re: Gun, meet foot.

          "Mebbe you wanna think about spending less time surfing dodgy pron sites?"

          Ah, yes - the famous Linux Defence. When faced with "doesn't work" just reply "but why would you want to do that...?"

      2. Anonymous Bullard

        Re: Gun, meet foot.

        I also do that. We're the minority.

        However, the vast majority would prefer the performance improvements that Wayland provides. I'd much rather see that.

        You wanted Linux on the desktop. Be careful what you wish for, next time - and stop advocating Linux to Windows users.

      3. WonkoTheSane
        Headmaster

        Re: Gun, meet foot.

        You _do_ know that Mint is based on Ubuntu, which itself is based on Debian?

        Debian "Buster" (the current testing build) & "Sid" (the bleeding edge build) both now default to Wayland, leaving X11 as a backup alternative (for now!)

        https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Debian-Buster-GNOME-Wayland

        1. oiseau Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: Gun, meet foot.

          "Debian "Buster" (the current testing build) & "Sid" (the bleeding edge build) both ... "

          Have the systemd virus inside.

          1. bombastic bob Silver badge
            Devil

            Re: Gun, meet foot.

            it just means checking out what's up with devuan. Hopefully THOSE guys "get it" and REFUSE the Wayland, too, along with systemd.

            1. hplasm Silver badge
              Coat

              Re: Gun, meet foot.

              Refuse Wayland!

              Next will come David, then AVP - nobody wants that.

              Don't install Yutani either...

              1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

                Re: Gun, meet foot.

                Don't install Yutani either...

                Why? What's wrong with being used as an unsuspecting host for an alien combat species? You got something against science? Eh?

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Gun, meet foot.

              Devuan and the BSDs :)

      4. hititzombisi

        Re: Gun, meet foot.

        "Hey, common people want that Windows & blue-screen-crashing-all-the-time comfy old-time feeling, so Wayland it is".

        /s

      5. Teiwaz Silver badge

        Re: Gun, meet foot.

        Or for an alternative Display Server - look into Arcan

      6. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        Re: Gun, meet foot.

        Bob, Bob..

        Can you please stop randomly CAPITALISING things? It obscures the good points you do make by looking like a childs attempt at a forum post.

        The 'amusing' re-spellings of Microsoft et. al. don't help either.

      7. Hugh McIntyre

        Re: Gun, meet foot.

        Best not to use "xhost +".

        "ssh -X special@localhost" means you get the X11 display without xhost insecurity.

      8. This post has been deleted by its author

      9. Aitor 1 Silver badge

        Re: Gun, meet foot.

        I contribute to Mint with money.. not coding for the project.. and the cinnamon project is just dire, worse than unity.

        It just doesnt work right at high resolutions and multimonitor. Memory leaks + bizarre problems.. and nvidia doesnt help much with the drivers, I can choose the crippling problems I prefer...

      10. grizzly

        Re: Gun, meet foot.

        "It allows me to run a GUI that's hosted on one machine, and displayed on a different one" - can still do that in ubuntu 17.10, but only because it falls back to X11 for remote sessions. Either they need to fix remote sessions via Wayland, or otherwise keep X11 (dual gnome-shells) in 18.04.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Gun, meet foot.

      > What's now to differentiate between Ubuntu and Fedora, which works very nicely with weyland?

      Do you like doing a complete OS upgrade every 6 months? Or do you prefer a LTS release every 2 years, with 5 year support?

    4. Chemical Bob
      Coat

      Re: Gun, meet foot.

      "What's now to differentiate between Ubuntu and Fedora, which works very nicely with weyland?"

      Wait until it merges with the yutani project. Then things will be quite Alien....

  3. frank ly Silver badge

    Ch-Ch-Changes

    "Files (formerly Nautilus) has completely different right-click menus and toolbars."

    Why do they make these changes? Who asked for different right-click menus and toolbars?

    Note: Files is what happened when Nautilus was simplified to death. If you liked Nautilus then Caja (part of the MATE ecosystem) carries it on in spirit, look and feel.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Ch-Ch-Changes

      I like caja. 'caja' is spanish for 'box'. easy to remember the name that way.

      (no, not THAT kind of box)

      And 'pluma' (the editor) retains everything I liked about the gnome 2 version of 'gedit'. [gnome 3 gedit is CRAP and irritates me]. 'pluma' is Spanish for 'pen'. also easy to remember it that way.

      OK Mate is just _SUPERIOR_ to Gnome 3, that's all. Heh.

      (and FreeBSD has _NO_ systemd, nor will it, EVAR)

      1. John Sanders
        Linux

        Re: Ch-Ch-Changes

        Mate is indeed far superior to Gnome3

        They're transitioning to GTK3 and refining the interface, slowly evolving things, fixing bugs, keeping things that make sense and removing things the user-base disagrees with.

        Surprise, they behave like normal human beings and not arrogant elitists.

        Having said that, lately Gnome3 has improved a lot, credit where credit is due.

        1. Updraft102 Silver badge

          Re: Ch-Ch-Changes

          "[Mate is] transitioning to GTK3 and refining the interface, slowly evolving things, fixing bugs, keeping things that make sense and removing things the user-base disagrees with."

          In other words, it's converging with Cinnamon. MATE was about continuing GNOME 2 after the GNOME devs dropped it and decided that GNOME 3 was going to use a "converged" UI, while Cinnamon was about using GNOME 3 and its improvements over GNOME 2 but taking it more in a GNOME 2 direction in look and feel.

          If MATE moves to GNOME 3, why even have it anymore? Y'know, once I wrote that, it occurs to me that I read (I think) about that possibility somewhere before (that the two would possibly merge into one project). FWIW, I tried both MATE and Cinnamon and found them to be quite similar, but Cinnamon was the one that I liked best. I liked the Nemo file manager more than Caja.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Megaphone

      Re: Ch-Ch-Changes

      "Why do they make these changes? Who asked for different right-click menus and toolbars?"

      It's the same as the reason behind Windows "Ape" and Win-10-nic. CHANGE for the SAKE of CHANGE!

      A bunch of millenial CHILDREN noticed that a whole bunch of us old farts have either retired, or moved on to other things. As a result THEY were left in positions of reasonably high authority. A handful of 'old farts' remained behind, but were easily tricked into believing whatever CRAP the millenials were preaching.

      After all, to these millenials, it's THEIR turn now. We old farts are DINOSAURS, sticks in the mud, living in the past, refusing to change, refusing to adapt, refusing to believe that what THEY want to do is so superior to the way things have been done for DECADES.

      It's THEIR turn now, and DAMMIT, they're gonna SHOVE IT UP OUR DOWN OUR THROATS, for our OWN GOOD, whether we WANT it or NOT, because, CHANGE is *ALWAYS* better, right? [in THEIR minds it is apparently so]

      In the case of Micro-shaft, they went to "the Metro" UWP and a phone OS on the desktop. Unity isn't much better, but THANKFULLY it was ABANDONED by Canonical.

      However, Canonical still needs a CLUE BAT when it comes to systemd and Wayland. And so do the project managers over at Debian [hence, Devuan].

      Obviously these people have NEVER read Arthur C. Clarke's 'SUPERIORITY'.

      So that handful of "old farts" who STILL retain some decisionmaking power should *NEVAR* enable those damned millenial CHILDREN who want all of that "change for the sake of change". Just because they're YOUNG does _NOT_ make them "hip with the latest beat". OK my age is _REALLY_ showing now.

      The fact is, THESE CHILDREN do _NOT_ know arses from holes in the ground, CRAP from shinola, etc.. They *FEEL* they do, and their emotions drive them too much. "Old Farts" that ENABLE them are as much to blame, if not MORE. Yeah, it's HARD for some people to say "No". I had to teach that to someone a long time ago who fell for telephone hard-sales too easily. You just say NO, and hang up the damn phone. "What do you say when they start talking about how you need this?" "NO!"

      Same with those 2D FLATSO 4" phone UI loving millenials (some call them "4 inchers" based on how they see the universe through a 4 inch screen). They have NO CLUE what's possible, and they're more than willing to TAKE IT AWAY and SHOVE THEIR CHANGE into whatever bodily orifice an unsuspecting end-user might have, simply because they are:

      a) arrogant

      b) inexperienced

      c) full of themselves

      d) horribly misinformed

      e) short sighted

      f) smug

      g) living in a bubble world of ONLY others like themselves

      h) totally clueless

      i) unable to drop their phones for 5 minutes and have a REAL conversation

      j) way too influenced by social media

      k) caught in the trap of "new, shiny"

      and that's all about I can think of at the moment. Add all of that up, and you get your explanation.

      You're welcome.

      1. M. Poolman

        Re: Ch-Ch-Changes

        You sure do live up to your name bombastic bob!

      2. Hans 1 Silver badge

        Re: Ch-Ch-Changes

        @bombastic

        Sooooo true. Now, I feel so old I wanna retire, still have decades to work, though :-\ ...

        PS: Devuan kicks ass, I have it running, here!

      3. Kurt Meyer
        Megaphone

        Re: Ch-Ch-Changes

        @bombastic bob

        Good choice of icon.

        For a lightweight text editor pluma is fine. i wouldn't mind a few more plugins though.

        Caja, on the other hand, is terrible. There may be a worse file manager out there, but I thank my lucky stars that I haven't encountered it.

        1. Barry Rueger Silver badge

          Re: Ch-Ch-Changes

          There may be a worse file manager out there, but I thank my lucky stars that I haven't encountered it.

          *cough* Finder */cough*

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Ch-Ch-Changes

        @Bob -- you're an incredibly offensive, bitter and twisted man. You make sweeping generalisations about what 'millenials' think and do as if they're just one homogenous mass. You sound so bitter because some things change sometimes. By the way, I don't like stock Gnome 3, not one little bit. But I can give very specific reasons about it without resorting childish insults and moaning. Good grief.

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Trollface

          Re: Ch-Ch-Changes

          "you're an incredibly offensive, bitter and twisted man"

          thanks for the pejorative. I suppose I owe you an FOAD. but I won't. oops, too late.

      5. This post has been deleted by its author

      6. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Ch-Ch-Changes

        Tell us how you REALLY feel? =P

      7. rmullen0

        Re: Ch-Ch-Changes

        While I am inclined to agree with Bombastic about change for the sake of change with regard to computing. I'm not sure it is fair to blame it on Millennials. There are a lot of things in computing these days I believe are total hype. And the new isn't automatically better than the old. In fact, I believe a lot of the old is better. Look at what all generations are doing to the planet with regard to climate change. The older generation screwed the newer generations big time. I remember when I was young and I thought the older generation was responsible. I now that is false. They are totally reckless and most of them are only looking out for their own interests. So, overall, I think you are just outright wrong trying to blame everything on Millennials. I am a Gen Xer and first learned about global warming back in the early 90s. What has been done about it since then? Virtually nothing. And now we have criminal oil goons in the government trying to rolling back what little progress we have had. And who voted for these people? The older generation.

      8. Michael Maxwell

        Re: Ch-Ch-Changes

        "We old farts are DINOSAURS, sticks in the mud, living in the past, refusing to change, refusing to adapt, refusing to believe that what THEY want to do is so superior to the way things have been done for DECADES."

        Stop it, I resemble that remark!

        And for the record, I also resemble point (a) in your description of millenials: arrogant.

    3. Jim 59

      Re: Ch-Ch-Changes

      Note: Files is what happened when Nautilus was simplified to death. If you liked Nautilus then Caja (part of the MATE ecosystem) carries it on in spirit, look and feel.

      And PCmanFM does the same to Caja as Caja does to Nautilus, in that regard. (On Mint 17 MATE, anyway). Faster and less buggy.

  4. CAPS LOCK Silver badge

    It's nice to see Ubuntu geting its mojo back, but...

    ...like a lot of Linux user I migrated to Mint during the Unity years and I'm more than happy with it.

    1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      Re: It's nice to see Ubuntu geting its mojo back, but...

      Linux user I migrated to Mint

      If Mint switch to using Devuan as the base I might be interested..

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