back to article How many times can Microsoft kill Mobile?

"Without the end points you aren't going to have the impact in the world and people's lives so you have to think about this next generation of computing as mobile-first, cloud-first," said Microsoft's CEO three years ago. Strictly speaking, there's no change in Microsoft's position on its dormant-but-nominally-still-supported …

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Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

After what we've seen on the desktop, mobile and even server, in the last few years, there aren't too many more areas left for them to screw up in.

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Everybody's Dead, Dave

Lister: Where is everybody, Hol?

Holly: They're dead, Dave.

Lister: Who is?

Holly: Everybody, Dave.

Lister: What, the 850?

Holly: Everybody's dead, Dave.

Lister: What, the little 530?

Holly: Everybody's dead, Dave.

Lister: What, and the 525?

Holly: They're all dead. Everybody's dead, Dave.

Lister: The 920 isn't, is he?

Holly: Everybody is dead, Dave.

Lister: Not 1020?

Holly: Gordon Bennett! Yes, the 1020, everybody, everybody's dead, Dave!

Lister: 950?

Holly: He's dead, Dave, everybody is dead, everybody is dead, Dave.

Lister: Wait. Are you trying to tell me everybody's dead?

Holly: I wish I'd never let him out in the first place.

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Coffee/keyboard

Re: Everybody's Dead, Dave

I approve of this comment.

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Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

Doesn't matter how much they screw up, they can't kill Windows on the desktop or server, or Office, or Exchange/Outlook. Some of us might wish they could a way, but I really don't see how.

Microsoft may no longer be the powerful force that can turn the whole IT industry on its ear with a single announcement like back in the late 90s, but those products still generate gobs of cash and Microsoft doesn't even really need to do anything to improve them at this point. Just patch security issues and keep up with the industry (i.e. supporting Office on non-Microsoft smartphones) and they'll keep collecting money year after year, only ceasing when desktops/laptops stop selling.

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Megaphone

Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

Well, if Belfiore admits that WinPhone is essentially DYING, I wonder how long it will be before he admits THESE things [that he so proudly announced] will ALSO die:

a) spyware - " So the system is going to give us a 'smart suggestion' for an app in the store that is going to be one that's suitable for ~me~."

b) adware - "on the client we know which apps you're launching, and which apps you're installing, and so we're able to communicate with the store and bring down suggestions that are personalized for ~you~"

c) his focus on "universal windows platform" ==> UWP

(the quotes are from his (in)famous speech at a developer's conference during the insider program for win-10-nic, where he revealed the adware, spyware, and other plans as if they were *GOOD* things)

And - Mr. Belf**ck-you-all-e - how about getting rid of that 2D FLATSO FLUGLY THE METRO CRAP-INTERFACE too.

In other words, go back to 7, the way it was before "Ape" was released. Apply the back-end fixes and anything that makes the system faster, but LEAVE THE @#$% &$*# !}{% INTERFACE THE WAY IT WAS this time!

And _NO_ forced updates, either.

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Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

"Doesn't matter how much they screw up, they can't kill Windows on the desktop or server, or Office, or Exchange/Outlook. Some of us might wish they could a way, but I really don't see how."

That's not how it works: Losers don't decide how / when they're beaten.

I would keep an eye on Google: They will own the desktop in a decade, while the open source crowd gapes in astonishment, because the key's in having a business productivity ecosystem - and not just a pretty GUI.

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Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

Microsoft may no longer be the powerful force that can turn the whole IT industry on its ear with a single announcement like back in the late 90s, but those products still generate gobs of cash and Microsoft doesn't even really need to do anything to improve them at this point.

And we like them that way. Microsoft is no longer an existential threat to everyone in the industry who is not Microsoft. Combine this with the fact that after a 20 year beta period, Windows is finally usable now, and a lot of us can finally be a bit more chill about these things.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

Apparently yet another mobile Windows OS version is coming with the major windows 10 update due in 2018. This will be designed to allow apps on both desktop and mobile without having to design specific crappy "unified" versions.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Everybody's Dead, Dave

Shame - Windows mobile was by some distance the most secure mobile OS platform versus IOS or Android.

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Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

"After what we've seen on the desktop, mobile and even server"

What have they screwed up on Server? Cant think of anything much there. it's been fast, stable, pretty secure versus the competition, and is secured / minimal / no GUI by default. All good things.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Everybody's Dead, Dave

Does that make rimmer clippy?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

Agreed. Look at the financials of Microsoft (and even IBM, Oracle etc) and they are still making plenty of cash. All these companies will be around for decades to come.

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Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

"After what we've seen on the desktop, mobile and even server, in the last few years, there aren't too many more areas left for them to screw up in."

I'm sure they will soon start a diversification effort in order to find new industries to fail at.

Animal husbandry, for example.

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@AC "most secure mobile platform"

Based on what? By demonstrably useless CVE counts?

Given all the code it shares with desktop Windows 10, and how full of holes that is, that's a ridiculous claim that could only be made by a Windows fanboy posting as AC. The only thing Windows Phone had going for it was, like iOS but unlike Android, regular patching. Claiming it more secure than iOS based on CVE counts is provably stupid.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

Yep, the arrogance of the iPhone and blackberry funeral. That is all you need to know. Karma has come full circle for Microsoft scumbag marketing, it's almost full circle for Xbox too, which is surely on life support.

Investors knew this was coming (share price didn't even blip), they know Xbox isfor the chop too, possibly surface devices too....

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

Yeps, it seem the smart people left the building... a long time ago... and apparently in a galaxy far away... a galaxy were ergonomics had a meaning. On this planet they call it skeuomorphism which sounds like a bad disease instead of something that humans could relate to.

But I guess in this AI ridden world humans soon don't matter either...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

"...I would keep an eye on Google: They will own the desktop in a decade..."

You mean those fuck-ups that twice bought a phone-manufacturer and brandname and couldn't deal with either of them? Those idiots that one day claim to bring their "desktop OS" closer to their "mobile OS" and the next day deny all of this (which sounds suspiciously like Microsoft actually)? Those morons whom hide every stamina tweaking crap of their mobile OS with cool sounding names, like Project Volta or Project Doze, but can't see the biggest power saving feature which literally stares them in the face (like utilising black on Amoled screens perhaps)?

Sure, let THEM reign the desktop, then we're in for worst!

No thanks, 2 bad guys on the desktop is enough we don't don't need a third one. And we definitely don't want one to become the dominant marketleader again!!!

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Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

Sure, crooks always find ways to keep afloat.

As for the people whom started those companies, why would they care? They're all filthy rich.

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Orv
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Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

I would keep an eye on Google: They will own the desktop in a decade, while the open source crowd gapes in astonishment, because the key's in having a business productivity ecosystem - and not just a pretty GUI.

I'd like to agree with you, because I've developed for the Chrome App platform and quite like it. But I think the writing is on the wall and Google will be killing that platform. They've already removed support for it on desktop systems, and Chromebooks can now run Android apps. There have been no chrome.app API developments in well over a year. They haven't admitted it yet, but I think they plan on phasing out ChromeOS in favor of running Android on laptops and tablets. They're no longer interested in the desktop market, except for stuff that can be hosted as standard HTML5 web apps.

Where they've really demolished MS, though, is in the low-end office suite department. The "G Suite" apps are toys compared to MS Office or even LibreOffice, but most people just need to type letters and the occasional budget spreadsheet, and Google does that just fine. I've also worked at places that supported both G Suite and Office 365, and Office 365 had a lot more downtime.

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Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

You only have to look at a current Chromebook to see the future, £200 gets you a device that is Uber secure, boots in 2 seconds and gives you 12 hour battery life. Its totally devoid of all the problems of windows and Mac. You can get viruses, there is no need for virus scanners, it's totally safe to use for secure online banking, you don't have to worry about backups. You have 1 thing to do to make it secure, ensure your Google account is secure (2FA and unique strong password). You are good to go.

Its a total breath of fresh air compared to everything else. Mine is now 3 years old, gets used daily coat £160, and is as fast as it was the day I bought it. Its perfectly suitable for 90% of consumers and 100% of schools, and as business wake up to the security advantages of cloud, more and more of them will understand that relying on windows and lots of emailed round copies of uncontrolled document attachments are much worse than a single cloud document with centrally managed access

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Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

"What have they screwed up on Server?"

The licensing model.

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Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

"What have they screwed up on Server?"

SBS

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Anonymous Coward

Re: @AC "most secure mobile platform"

"Based on what? "

Based on close to zero exploitable vulnerabilities ever, zero malware and on numerous expert opinions:

https://mspoweruser.com/hacker-claims-windows-phone-the-most-secure-smartphone-os/

https://betanews.com/2015/06/11/windows-phone-security-is-top-notch-says-kaspersky/

etc.

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Facepalm

Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

"You only have to look at a current Chromebook to see the future..."

... and yet these are exactly the same people who are bitching about Win10 telemetry. Google's entire business is based on spying on us, it has been pretty much since day one! And people are blindly accepting it! Not even Microsoft achieved that!

Wake up!

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Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

And - Mr. Belf**ck-you-all-e - how about getting rid of that 2D FLATSO FLUGLY THE METRO CRAP-INTERFACE too.

You're going to be so upset soon, BOB!!!! As Linux is ALL GOING FLATSO TOO!! !!

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Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

You're going to be so upset soon, BOB!!!! As Linux is ALL GOING FLATSO TOO!! !!

What do your mean all going damn flat themes have been more annoyingly 'in' than all those 'happy happy' songs that sat in the charts for unfeasibly long periods during the 80's.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

"and yet these are exactly the same people who are bitching about Win10 telemetry."

So... don't use a chromebook because windows also has telemetry?

With Windows, running on "your" machine, you get all the arse ache and the spying. There's no real alternative, for consumers.

I'd rather my "support clients" use a maintenance free Linux than Windows, which would require either themselves, PC Word, or myself to fix.

My (least computer literate) child has a chromebook - Zero problems with it. Everything they do is online regardless of OS.

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Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

I'm sure they will soon start a diversification effort in order to find new industries to fail at.

Animal husbandry, for example.

Then we'll know they've truly screwed the pooch...

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Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

@Chemical Bob

Well, they could try animal husbandry, I suppose. But, like the BOFH's boss, I doubt they'll get very far beyond the wedding night.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

Weirdly, I prefer GSuite, it works better for many tasks, and it's the same as the free one I use at home. I don't have to learn two different web apps.

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Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

Microsoft, Apple, Facbook all have EXACTLY the same business model, and sell your details in EXACTLY the same way.

if you think you are better by not avoiding Google, then you need to go read up on Microsoft, Apple and Facebook privacy statements, be prepared for a shock... They still your details in the same way, but give you MUCH less in return (Appl even have the audacity so sell you overpriced hardware in exchange for your details...)

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Trollface

Re: Everybody's Dead, Dave

"Shame - Windows mobile was by some distance the most secure mobile OS platform versus IOS or Android."

That's because nobody could be bothered to hack it. - Not enough users!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

"The licensing model."

16 Cores in the base Datacentre version for $6K once off and then 25% a year for support / maintenance isn't exactly complex. VMWare, Oracle, etc all have similar models. For the vast majority of boxes in the long term it works out much cheaper than say RHEL (which on the fully featured supported version is over $9K per year per instance!)

"SBS"

That was an application product suite that included Windows Server and Exchange. So a bit more than Windows Server as was mentioned above. Yes that it's EOL is annoying for anyone that used it, but Exchange is a very complex product to be running on site for <75 users. I can see why it now makes sense for people to move to O365 + Server 2016 Essentials instead...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

They bought patent pool to combat patent trolling by Microsoft, they sold patent less companies on. Very smart move, and as the patents are shared for free with other non trolling companies, it's a good thing.

As for amoled, I think your beef is with hardware manufacturers, not android or Google.

Do you have a grown up that looks after you???

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Nothing follows

You need hardware to run an OS on, there isn't that hardware and as a result the OS platform is burned.

The only thing they could possibly have a go at is a UWP runner on iOS and Android, and that would fail too.

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Mushroom

Re: Nothing follows

"The only thing they could possibly have a go at is a UWP runner on iOS and Android, and that would fail too."

That's because UWP itself is _FAIL_.

Is _ANYONE_ *SERIOUSLY* targeting UWP these days? One, maybe two people that ARE NOT owned by Micro-shaft?

Either Micro-shaft will COMPLETELY nuke themselves into oblivion by ABANDONING Win32 API support (basically invalidating all 'other toolkits' and legacy applications), or they'll see the light and quietly let it die like they did with Silverlight and a few other things...

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MJI
Silver badge

Re: Nothing follows

If MS kill WIN32 they will kill of their own company

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Anonymous Coward

Dutch East India company, GEC, TWA, Pan Am, Sperry, DEC, Kodak ...

(No, not the Rupert Murdoch resume ....)

The longer-than-you'd-think history of megacorps is littered with names that are only now seen in museums.

No one has a God-given right to trade (something people agitating in the UK to leave the EU should really take note of ?!?!?). Not even Microsoft.

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Re: Dutch East India company, GEC, TWA, Pan Am, Sperry, DEC, Kodak ...

It doesn't matter. The people whom started those companies became filthy rich and lived the good live. Why would they care if their companies lived on?

Or do you really believe that Bill Gates would work in a McDonalds nearby flipping burgers, when M$ suddenly went belly-up?

I think it's either we, IT people, whom would be flipping burgers instead.

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Re: Dutch East India company, GEC, TWA, Pan Am, Sperry, DEC, Kodak ...

FYI, you're using the word "whom" wrongly.

"Who" is a subject, "whom" is an object. In both cases, you've used "whom" as a subject. It's the same difference as "I kicked the ball" vs "me kicked the ball."

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Headmaster

Re: Dutch East India company, GEC, TWA, Pan Am, Sperry, DEC, Kodak ...

"Whom" is mostly used after a preposition; for whom, to whom, with whom etc

So "With whom are you dining?" versus "Who are you eating with?". Even when used correctly it is often best avoided, because it just sounds rather pretentious.

Technically it is the objective form of "who", i.e. where the subject of the sentence is not the "who" but the what they do. The usage in the form "Whom are you going to visit" is technically correct, but pretty much obsolete, partly because pretentious, but also if you are going to try to use it like that you would end up by finishing some sentences with the preposition, which is a no no for any grammar pedant. As is in "Whom are you eating with" rather than the above "With whom....."

Personally I think there is an elegance to using preposition+whom, so I'd hate for it to die off due to misuse..

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Seriously, who cares?

Windows Mobile along with its ugly 8bit tiles has been an abomination from the get go and deserved to die. Too bad, parts of this abomination found their way into Windows 8/10 and now people have to "enjoy" moronic apps on their desktops, including UWP'ized Start Menu and maimed ugly cr*ptastic Control Panel, a.k.a. PC Settings. And Microsoft keeps persisting with UWP despite failing spectacularly in mobile.

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Anonymous Coward

I disagree.

Windows Mobile - from 7.5/7.6 on was actually quite a nice way to use a phone. If only for the fact that it had a proper "Driving mode" baked in from scratch which understood that if you are driving, you should be having calls and SMS go to voicemail or be autoreplied to.

Not like the 99% of Android "Driving Mode" apps which are intended to encourage the user to text/call when driving.

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Re: I disagree.

"Windows Mobile - from 7.5/7.6 on......"

By which time it was far too late. I had a Windows phone even before Apple launched the iPhone and it sucked big time. Infighting within Microsoft meant that all innovation was stifled. The all-powerful Windows team wanted Windows everywhere, including places that it didn't belong - like on phones. It was years before Microsoft could address these issues and actually produce a decent phone OS. By then, they'd already lost.

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Trollface

Re: I disagree.

"The all-powerful Windows team wanted Windows everywhere, including places that it didn't belong"

And then, DUMB THE INTERFACE DOWN so that everyone is equally *MEDIOCRE*. Like certain political philosophies that demand "equal outcomes".

troll icon because, previous comment. heh.

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Silver badge

Re: I disagree.

"a proper "Driving mode" baked in from scratch which understood that if you are driving, you should be having calls and SMS go to voicemail or be autoreplied to."

Any phone can have this. It's called an off switch.

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FAIL

Re: I disagree.

Windows mobile was dire, the UI didn't know is if it wanted to be mobile or desktop and failed bad!y on both...

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Facepalm

Re: I disagree.

> Windows Mobile - from 7.5/7.6 on was actually quite a nice way to use a phone

You're having a bubble bath?

MAEMO was a nice way to use a phone - really nice. Doubled up as a mobile SSH terminal, even had X11 forwarding support.

Unfortunately, Microsoft murdered it and its mother Nokia in an ultimately doomed attempt to push Windows Mobile!

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Anonymous Coward

While it is very easy to rectify stuff.

Just re-introduce themes in Windows 10 and supply a Windows 7-based theme. With full Glass, skeuomorphism, beautifull icons and buttons that are clear and visible buttons and not window decorations.

And obviously also introduce a grey, Windows 95/ME-theme alongside.

And before people flame me. I do believe in change, sure. But change doesn't need to be in your face like Metro was! Change should be chosen not enforced! If M$ made Windows 8 look like Windows 7 and released the tile-based UI as a free downloadable theme then people would have accepted this "change" much easier. Today this resistance against this obligatory UI change is one o/t things that is killing them! And shuffling bosses around isn't the solution either!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I disagree.

The biggest flaw is calling the damn thing "Windows" while there isn't a single window insight!

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