back to article Big Tech fumes over Prez Trump's decision to deport a million kids

The technology industry exploded with anger today after President Trump announced an end to a program that has given 800,000 young adults the right to live and work in the United States. "We are deeply disappointed ... this is a big step back for our entire country," wrote Microsoft president Brad Smith in a blog post …

...because we are a nation of laws

I am constantly amazed that he is able to say this stuff with a straight face.

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Re: ...because we are a nation of laws

The guiding philosophy had formerly been, "A nation of laws rather than of men," which, of course, has been diminished by Him Who Would be King. Or... considering how he's washed his hands of the matter and dropped it into the legislative mire, perhaps Him Who Is a Trumpeting Pilate?

Might there be an enlightened western nation, perhaps in northern Europe or a certain offshore isle, that could recruit and absorb a highly educated, dedicated, energetic, young workforce? Perhaps 800,000 of them? Or, even more ambitious, the total estimated workforce of 1.9 million young 'dreamers' including those who wisely decided NOT to trust the word and good faith of the U.S by coming forward to register in the DACA program?

It's estimated the US will lose $40 Billion in the next ten years by shunning the DACA kids; perhaps another, more enlightened nation could increase their GDP by that amount? The Trumpeter and his minions have their millions & billions; they'll not suffer.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: ...because we are a nation of laws

Highly educated, dedicated, energetic, young workforce you say ? Do you have any proof of that word salad of yours ? Common sense tells me that children of poorly educated low skill parents who were brought up in Latino ghettos of California are very unlikely to be highly educated. Not impossible though, Microsoft somehow found all 39 of them.

Downvoters, knock yourself over.

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Re: ...because we are a nation of laws

"perhaps another, more enlightened nation could increase their GDP by that amount?"

You mean like the one they came from in the first place?

Why didn't anyone complain about America stealing these valuable children from Mexico?

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Re: ...because we are a nation of laws

And we are.

Trump isn't wrong is rolling back Obama's order. The fifth court of appeals ruled against Obama citing that only Congress can make laws. Obama broke the law and was in violation of the constitution. SCOTUS was split 4 to 4 and had Scalia still been alive he would have sided with the courts and said Obama's power grab was unconstitutional.

To really put a pin in it... Obama said to the public in 2011 that he couldn't unilaterally make an executive order like DACA, then later he does just that. (IIRC, his words were used against him during the lawsuit.)

You may hate Trump, but he put the ball back in Congresses court. So if you don't have DACA, you can vote out your congress critter in 2018. (Both parties)

Trump is right for doing what he is doing. Ironic isn't it? A lawyer turned senator turned POTUS ignoring the law while a Billionaire real estate puff actually is following it. Go figure.

Meanwhile Clinton attempts to rewrite history with her new book.

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Re: ...because we are a nation of laws

Indeed so. Enacting immigration law, like enacting all laws, is the job of the Congress, although in the case of immigration law it is one they have failed at pretty miserably for a good long time.

There is no genuine question that immigrants, on balance, have been bad for the country. It is fairly obvious (except, of course, fto those whose ancestors arrived from Asia 100 centuries or so earlier) that they have much improved the country since before it was one.

There is a basis, however, to argue that the US Presidency has got far to big for our collective good, and that, too, we may lay at the feet of Congress. President Obama's DAPA and DACA exercises are small compared to the five major several minor military actions since the end of WW II, not a single one declared a war by the Congress as required by Article I, Section VIII. It is time for it to end.

Obama, lauded though he was for it, did the unauthorized immigrants no favor by compiling the DAPA and DACA lists of those now possibly subject to deportation based on the current president's recission of his overweening executive orders. His only excuse may be that, like nearly everyone else, he though Hillary was a shoo-in.

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Re: ...because we are a nation of laws

I imagine he meant he couldn't make it stick, and that seems to be true. So now Congress has 6 months to pull their finger out. It may take them 5 to figure out which finger it is.

Rewrite history? That's being done all the time, you know.

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Re: ...because we are a nation of laws

Well, Apple has hired 300 of them, many working in stores, some actually working in product development. Apple doesn't exactly have a reputation for hiring people who can't do their job. Any part of the iPhone 8 could have been developed by a Dreamer.

And I thought the USA were a country were everyone could rise up to a better life than their parents have.

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Re: ...because we are a nation of laws

shhhhh. truth hurts peoples feewings...

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@Tom Dial ... Re: ...because we are a nation of laws

There is immigrants and then there are illegal aliens who snuck into the US.

Bit of a big difference.

The US is a land of immigrants, including the American Indians if you go back far enough...

The issue isn't that the Presidency has gotten too big, but that there's been an absence of checks and balances.

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Re: @Tom Dial ... ...because we are a nation of laws

The checks and balances are there, but for going on a century or more the Congress has declined increasingly to enforce them, instead passing laws that deliver a lot of what most would consider legislation to executive branch departments and agencies. They pretend to oversee them but really cannot do so effectively.

There is no question that "immigrants" have, collectively, been to the good, whether or not "legal" at their time of immigration. The question of legality is, to a large degree, a result of legislative choices made at particular times and generally carried forward for years or decades beyond any justification cited for their enactment.

Moreover, immigrants' descendants have been more important than the far less numerous immigrants, something the advocates for "dreamers" and permissive immigration for the educated and already-accomplished (or the rich who can buy green cards for a half million dollars or so) usually overlook. One key attribute of immigrants, whether or not "legal" is their initiative and willingness to accept the substantial risk of failure that goes with moving to a new place, often enough with a different primary language and different customs. Not all of them succeeded, but quite a few did, for a reasonable definition of success. Their children and later descendants have done so even more, and there is no reason to think that won't be true of the current group of immigrants - again, whether or not "legal." The primary "victims" of illegal immigration, in fact, are the applicants who played by the rules and waited in the queue for their chance.

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It looks as though he is going to run the States the same way he has run his companies, they have declared bankruptcy 4 times according to what I read.

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Solution

Apple / Google /Facebook / etc build a campus in Mexico.

Same time zone, good comms links and housing 10x cheaper than SF. Then they can freely recruit SE Asians and Europeans - until their USA staff start to ask to move there.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Solution

I don't know how many Europeans would like to move to Mexico - given the actual state of Mexico... after all there is a reason why Mexicans too don't want to stay in Mexico.

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Re: Solution

How many Europeans? Most Americans would love the chance to get out from the Orange Cheat-o. Many retirees already have. Search term "American retirees in Mexico".

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Re: Solution

How about Canada then?

Pretty much all[1,2] that the USA should be if sanity prevailed.

[1] OK the French-speaking bit might seem odd here but I'm sure it would not be a problem.

[2] Yes, they have some crappy broadband issues as well

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Anonymous Coward

Haven't we had this before?

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/01/big_tech_slams_trump_on_plan_

to_deport_kids/

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(Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

Re: anonymous

That was then. Now it's happened, and this is the response.

C.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: anonymous

Got it. Thanks!

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Anonymous Coward

The main reason the big tech companies are angry is that their cleaning costs will go through the roof. Consider what it will cost to have a US citizen or green card holder to detoxify the offices. It is a very hazardous job, and without illegals, you have to start paying properly to have this done.

The employees are also grumpy, because it will cost more for them to have their recreational outlets.

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Dear anonymous coward, we are talking here about people who right now have the right to be in the USA openly. They are not illegals. They have absolutely no reason to do a job cheaper than a US citizen. They don't have to hide / cannot hide because the government knows about them and lets them stay (at the moment).

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Not surprising he punted it to congress

This way he can chalk up a promise kept to his base, while blaming congress and saying "not my fault, I gave them plenty of time!" if they fail to act and dreamers started getting deported next March.

Inaction is likely given that congressional inaction on immigration policy for over a decade is the reason Obama went this route in the first place. Not sure why that would change this time. The only way something could get passed would be if democrats teamed up with moderate republicans to pass something, but Trump would have no choice but to veto it or his base would go ballistic.

There's probably not much point in congress wasting time debating this because passing something they know Trump will veto is a waste of time, and they don't have nearly enough republicans who are "tough on immigration" at a Trumpist level to pass a bill through the House, let alone the Senate.

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If Zuckerberg is for something...

...then it's wise to be against it. This is the man who lives in a fortress and yet tells us privacy and security are passé.

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"... a more gifted politician..."

Ha ha ha ha.

Suggesting he has some amount of lesser "gift."

As gifts go I keep holding out for Mueller giving us a present soon. But I need to be careful what I wish for, because Pence is the bigger asshole, and no doubt much better organized. If Mueller can't deliver them both in one fell swoop, then it's not worth it.

And I echo the same sentiment as my fellow AC above, downvoters, knock yourselves out.

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Re: "... a more gifted politician..."

If Trump and Pence were somehow to be impeched at the same time that would make Paul Ryan president. Who is himself an incredibily big whack job. You have to go alot farther down the ladder to find someone remotely resembling competence.

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Re: "... a more gifted politician..."

Lucky Hillary Clinton is so completely normal isn't it? The reason she walks so funny is that Lloyd Blankfein is still learning how to pull the strings more discretely.

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Huh?

DACA was killed by the courts as being illegal. So, Trump either complies which puts the 'Dreamers' at risk of being deported or there is another round of lawsuits. But given Silly Valley's consistent abuse of the H1B visa program it is not surprising they would prefer to keep cheap contractor labor.

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Trollface

DACA rescinded? Literally DACHAU implemented.

The DRAMA is hilarious.

Apparently Mexico is a hellhole that kills its own people who need to take refuge at the Zuckerburg using Liberal Superhero Obama's extra-legal discretionary decision making.

Now the legislative actually has to do some work and discuss a bit, and we can't have that, can we?

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Anonymous Coward

Fake News?

And so "The Register" joins the hosts of other fake news outlets with the title "Prez Trump's decision to deport a million kids". He hasn't decided to deport them. He has left it in the hands of Congress to decide, which is where it belonged all along. Presidents do not make laws (except in the case of Obama), but execute the laws (again, except in the case of Obama). It's about time we got back to using the Constitution as it was intended, instead of using it as toilet paper like Obama did.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Fake News?

The issue is a Congress completely split along ultra-ideological lines (often for pure self-interest) and unable to legislate on anything, and presidents abusing of executive orders (how many did Trump already issue?) - each busy to dismantle what the previous one did.

No state can work in such situation - and that very issue should be more worrying than North Korea or immigration. A broken democratic systems brings long-term issues, and restoring the system takes a lot of time.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Fake News?

The issue is a Congress completely split along ultra-ideological lines (often for pure self-interest) and unable to legislate on anything, and presidents abusing of executive orders (how many did Obama already issue?) - each busy to dismantle what the previous one did.

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Anonymous Coward

Quite surprised....

.... aren't all those children good to become cheap workers for overseas factories, after all? Or the reason is Apple & C. have already enough Chinese children to fill the factories? Or maybe they are good to lower the wages in the US - besides being useful serfs in all those large estates?

I'm really tired of all those people who have no shame to funnel money abroad, pay very little taxes, swallow huge bonuses and invest very little (but lobbying in Washington), keep on laying off people as soon as their stock options lose 0.1%, outsource and offshore to pay peanuts, but believe they can teach ethical lessons just because it's good PR and makes them feel good.

That said, the status of children which didn't choose to come to US (or any other country) and were brought in, is a delicate matter that need a proper law to deal with - avoiding to use them just as a political mace to appease voters.

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Anonymous Coward

"The technology industry exploded with anger..."

A bit Daily Mail for The Register, I think.

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Yeah...it's not going to actually happen.

Traitor Trump has gone too far this time.

The majority of the states are against this deportation.

The States are going to court about this.

Traitor Trump will lose again. Lol.

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Anonymous Coward

Traitor Trump. Clever. Got any more like that?

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m-k

call me cynical

but when I hear all those execs fuming, when they don't bat a lid at working and living conditions of those bright kids in Chinese factories, I do start to wonder - what's their gain from all those hapless half-immigrants, other than cheaper labour? Oh, I get it, it touched and melted their executive hearts? :(

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Re: call me cynical

I'm with you. If it's really about "everyone should be equal in everything" then why do these CEOs have the big salaries, big houses, expensive cars, etc, etc, etc.

When they start flying coach and driving a Ford I will start caring what they say. Until then it's a lot of hypocrisy.

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Six months??? Congress had seven YEARS to do something with the ACA. Good luck with DACA. (It'll be even worse, because it has four letters instead of only three.)

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FAIL

Human compassion

Where has it gone? These are humans, people, children and they are being relegated and labelled as just being burdens on righteous society or some other vague "wrong". What happened to America, the land of opportunity, the land of the brave, the land of the dreamers?

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

As a commentard noted above, a large number of these children may be stuck in "bad areas", "ghettos" or whatever you want to call them... but what is being done to fix this? (as in fix these areas) Instead we see another attack on the vulnerable and those that can't defend themselves.

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Re: Human compassion

blah blah blah blah

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WTF is going on?

What's happening in the U.S.A. seems to me to be devoid of considered and rational thought. The image of a headless chicken keeps coming to mind - a 400lb one, randomly ricocheting off of the rest of the world as it follows its drunkard's walk to Clapton knows where. I feel that I now know what happens when the lunatics are put in charge of running the asylum: chaos.

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Anonymous Coward

they keep saying "children"

but fail to tell you that they were brought in as minors, often decades before, and many have been ADULTS for a very long time. Enough to have chosen, but failed, to take advantage of at least one blanket amnesty program. Ignoring free/pro bono immigration services, but able to keep up with the protests, makes one have to really think hard about their motivations.

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Personally, I detest Trumped-Up, and I think he's not only bungled this one badly (par for his course), but focused on all the wrong points. That aside however, I totally agree that ultimately this needed to go back into hands of the lawmakers. That is their job after all. And if you have an opinion, now is your time to tell those who represent you what your opinion may be.

It's important to remember that:

1) Most Dreamers aren't children. They only ARRIVED as children. They grew up. They got schooling. They got jobs. But what they did NOT get were work visas or green cards.

2) There is a huge world of difference between legal and illegal immigration. Having done a lot of the legal kind myself, legal immigration is a PITA, but it's the law, and it's ridiculously unfair to those who go through the efforts and costs to immigrate legally to just wantonly hand out to those who did not.

3) Dreamers were never made "legal". The whole program quantified their ILLEGALITY, but gave them a deferred deportation date, on a renewal basis, to get their $#!7 in order. They were ALWAYS on borrowed time, wishing on a fairy godmother riding a unicorn under a shining star, and they knew it. To pretend otherwise is ridiculous. It was in writing!

4) This whole situation was created by a CIRCUMVENTION of the law, and THAT cannot be allowed to stand. Even if Trumped-Up had gone the other way, it would have been taken out of his hands, for this very reason. So whatever he decided, ultimately, did not even matter in this case.

5) No one has as of yet said that all Dreamers will be deported, only that what was done, was done illegitimately. Now the legality will be correctly stipulated. No one has decided which way that will go or what options may yet be created. (But you would be a fool to sit on your asterisk and wait.)

6) If companies care so much that they will pay legal costs, need we remind them that there is absolutely nothing stopping any employer, great or small, from aiding and endorsing a Dreamer's proper LEGAL immigration, if they truly care.

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