back to article WannaCry-killer Marcus Hutchins denies Feds' malware claims

Marcus Hutchins, the WannaCry ransomware killer and now suspected malware developer, was told by a Las Vegas court on Friday he can be released on bail. He also denied any wrongdoing. The British citizen was sensationally arrested and taken into custody on Wednesday by the FBI. The agents swooped as he was about to board a …

  1. Oh Homer Silver badge
    Childcatcher

    Proportionality? We've heard of it.

    Yup, some white-hat hacker who stops serious malware outbreaks is clearly a major threat to national security, and must be shackled and jump-suited like a terrorist.

    Remember the engineer who was fined for having the audacity to suggest a better traffic lights timing algorithm?

    America is beyond insane. It's criminally deranged.

  2. Kaltern Silver badge

    Re: Proportionality? We've heard of it.

    Unfortunately, those pulling the strings want things to be seen to be happening, and as per usual, they go after those who are the easy target, those who can be used as a scapegoat to avoid having to investigate (openly) those really involved with these attacks.

    Openly investigating a country is a risky business, and by arresting this guy, they can pretty much place the blame squarely on one man. Regardless of the damage it'll do to not just him, bu everyone who does what he does, it'll happen, Americans will swoon with delight, and the rest of the Western world will move on, like has happened countless times before.

  3. Big John Silver badge

    Re: Proportionality? We've heard of it.

    What makes you suppose Americans like what's happening here? This is what happens to a country after eight years of radical community organizing. Incompetent organizations and corrupt department heads. The bureaucrats now feel like they're our masters instead of our servants. Even a President won't be able to stand in their way if they manage to pull off this slow coup they're attempting against Trump.

  4. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

    Re: Guilty

    Saying anything other than "Lawyer please" and "no comment" during a police interview is a crime: "lying to the police". Even if you know what every law is, never broken any of them and answer truthfully, the officer can still fail to remember your exact words when he writes his interview report.

    The other fun part of being a foreigner released on bail in the US: no work permit. You will be stuck there for months waiting for a court date.

  5. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

    Re: Proportionality? We've heard of it.

    Given the tragicomedy going on in DC with the donkeys in the House who apparently used a Pakistani mole for their IT administration and other assorted stupidities by the elephants as well we could use some criminals to run the country. At least they would be fairer to the proles.

  6. Aitor 1 Silver badge

    Re: Proportionality? We've heard of it.

    They keep voting the people who make these things happen. So they either like it or dont care.

  7. The Man Who Fell To Earth Silver badge
    FAIL

    My money is on this turning into another on of these fiascos for the Feds

    https://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/updates/xicharges.cfm

  8. Tom Paine Silver badge

    Re: Proportionality? We've heard of it.

    America is beyond insane. It's criminally deranged.

    America's screwed, because all this insanity can be traced back to the Constitution in the end. Until they rip it up and start again from scratch, nothing will change. And obviously that won't happen until they've had one of the sort of events that have lead to European countries' constitutions being about 30 or 70 years old. You know the sort of thing: invasion, dictatorships, revolutions, invasions... in the case of the US it'll be a civil war. I could imagine Trump, as they perp walk him out of the White House in cuffs, yelling that it's a coup and patriots should rise up and revolt (or some such scenario). Or a scenario where escalating protests and civil disorder leads to police or army being ordered to open fire on crowds indiscriminately, or suchlike, and mutinying. Or maybe it won't happen for another 150 years, who knows? But sooner or later things are going to go very pear shaped.

  9. Big John Silver badge

    Re: Proportionality? We've heard of it.

    And I thought I was a cynic. And yes, we know civilizations rise and fall, but there's no need to get morbid about it.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Proportionality? We've heard of it.

    >is what happens to a country after eight years of radical community organizing

    Bet if you check his post history will find him complaining constantly about Obama blaming Bush but six months in everything is still Obama's and the Dems (in charge of nothing) fault. Unashamed breathtaking hypocrisy goes with the ideology (see complaining about one party passing legislation alone and then turning around and doing the same thing). The kind of poster that is the problem not the solution.

  11. DougS Silver badge

    Re: Proportionality? We've heard of it.

    Wow, Big John finds a way to blame everything on Obama. The government was fine until "that community organizer" came along, no abuses of power happen under republicans in Big John's alternative facts based world!

  12. Oh Homer Silver badge
    Paris Hilton

    Re: "years of radical community organizing"

    Really? I though it was due to years of neoliberal hegemony (or what we on this side of the pond like to refer to euphemistically as "deregulation"), resulting in (amongst many other things) a for-profit prison service, and subsequently the world's highest rate of incarceration.

    I'm not actually aware of any "community organizing" in America, and certainly none with any financial or political influence. I assumed that the entire concept of "communities" had been shunned by the prevailing isolationist mentality in America. I'd certainly be very interested to learn how any such community was somehow responsible for the authorities treating a benevolent geek tourist like a fucking terrorist.

  13. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

    Re: Guilty

    "You will be stuck there for months waiting for a court date."

    Considering innocent unless proven guilty, I wonder how much his US employer is doing to help him?

  14. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

    Re: Proportionality? We've heard of it.

    "find him complaining constantly about Obama blaming Bush but six months in everything is still Obama's and the Dems (in charge of nothing) fault."

    SOP. Labour, after 13 *years* in power, were blaming all the worlds woes on the Tories, right up to the infamous "there's no money left, we spent it" note. Likewise, the Tories, now in their second term, are still blaming Labour for all the worlds woes.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Proportionality? We've heard of it.

    >SOP. Labour, after 13 *years* in power, were blaming all the worlds woes on the Tories, right up to the infamous "there's no money left, we spent it" note. Likewise, the Tories, now in their second term, are still blaming Labour for all the worlds woes.

    Yes yes I am aware of how politics (human nature) works but I am not naive enough to actually believe its only the other guys that do it and my sacred world view is the only one that matters. Got enough jack wagons to fill a warehouse believing that as it is. Ole Big John is simply a drop who doesn't think he is responsible for the flood.

  16. Matt Bryant Silver badge

    Re: Flocke Kroes Re: Guilty - FAIL!

    "....the officer can still fail to remember your exact words when he writes his interview report." Which is why interviews are taped. Please go lose the tinfoil.

  17. Matt Bryant Silver badge

    Re: Kaltern Re: Proportionality? - FAIL!

    "Unfortunately, those pulling the strings want things to be seen to be happening, and as per usual, they go after those who are the easy target, those who can be used as a scapegoat to avoid having to investigate (openly) those really involved with these attacks...." Wow, did you use a time-machine to go forward and carefully examine ALL the evidence, as will be presented in court, or did you just jump to that pat (and, frankly, paranoid) conclusion? I'm betting on the jumping like a frightened bunny option.

    It could be that parts of the code used for Kronos was written by Hutchins, either as an innocent act of stupid techno-bragging, or with a real intent to demonstrate rooting code (though that's a bit like claiming "hey, I taught that guy how to rape, but I never actually thought he'd do it"). Or it could be he had a mate sell the code so he could make some money and claim he had nothing to do with Kronos. The prosecutor will have to show Hutchins profited directly from Kronos to win. Wait until the court case and see.

  18. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    Re: Proportionality? We've heard of it.

    "America is beyond insane. It's criminally deranged."

    Yes. Certain institutions (FBI, CIA, NSA) feel they have a monopoly on security research, and everyone else should never touch the stuff. America, World Police, here we come!

  19. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    Re: Proportionality? We've heard of it.

    "we could use some criminals to run the country"

    Not sure what you mean? You have some of the biggest ones running it right now...

  20. ciaran

    Re: Flocke Kroes Guilty - FAIL!

    The reason they are taped is because the police kept misreporting the interviews. For more US police fun, see this report on a bodycam showing a policeman planting evidence..

    https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/2/16084258/baltimore-police-body-bams-evidence

    Also current in the US, they have a law that lets the police steal anything valuable from you, and its up to you to sew the police force to get it back

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States

    So generally any protection a tinfoil hat can provide is worth the money.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: "years of radical community organizing"

    ... resulting in (amongst many other things) a for-profit prison service, and subsequently the world's highest rate of incarceration.

    Not true, I am afraid. The modern USA prison population boom started in 1975. The first modern private prisons did not appear until a decade later, at which point the US incarceration rate already doubled compared to the first half of the 20th century. According to the ACLU, private prisons are presently accounting for 7% of state and 18% of federal prisoners. The rest (ie the vast majority) are held in the publicly-operated facilities.

    Whatever are the reasons for the Americans' enamourement with jails and incarceration, greed is at best a contributing factor, not the root cause.

  22. DougS Silver badge

    @AC 'blaming those who came before'

    We're seeing an interesting variation of that in the US, as Trump and his supporters are taking full credit for unemployment being at 16 year lows. Yes, using the same supposedly "rigged" system of measurement used under Obama they claimed was hiding far higher "real" unemployment, and nevermind that the rate was more than cut in half from where it was a couple months into Obama's first term (the depth of the great recession)

    Somehow I think there would be no irony felt by Trump or his supporters if for example the economy soured next year and unemployment went back up. Somehow that would be Obama's fault, despite Obama getting none of the credit for the unemployment continuing the slow drop that begun within a few months of him taking office.

    Politicians know it is ridiculous, the problem is their partisan followers are all too eager to lap up bullshit that fits their biases so of course they capitalize on that. People love to blame a president they hate for high gas prices, even though presidents have almost zero influence on it. Conservatives everywhere blamed Obama for high gas prices, even though he had nothing to do with it. They gave him no credit when they were cut in half, but were right in that case because he had nothing to do with that, either.

    Presidents do have some influence on the unemployment rate, but only loosely - to the degree they can affect the economy, and it typically takes a few years for anything that affects it (like for example a change in tax rates) to work its way through the economy to the point where it affects companies decisions on whether to hire or fire.

  23. crob

    Re: Proportionality? We've heard of it.

    I live here. Been saying what you just said for some time. It's getting hotter and hotter every year. At some point, the dam will break.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: "years of radical community organizing"

    "a for-profit prison service, and subsequently the world's highest rate of incarceration."

    That sounds good to me, next step anyone whose been on the dole for over a year.......

    Anyone who cant or wont make a contribution...

  25. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

    Re: Guilty

    "You will be stuck there for months waiting for a court date."

    Or in Kevin Mitnick's case ... a lot longer ... inside not outside on bail.

    (ok he was definitely guilty but that's beside the point)

  26. Domquark

    Re: Kaltern Proportionality? - FAIL!

    @ Matt Bryant

    Though that's a bit like claiming "hey, I taught that guy how to rape, but I never actually thought he'd do it"

    So a gun manufacturer could say "Hey, I mass produced millions of guns (a device designed to kill, maim or injure), sold them to millions of people, but never thought anyone use one to kill/maim/injure someone".*

    No, sorry, your argument doesn't work.

    The problem is that sharing such code is standard practice. What is done with it after sharing is beyond the original creators control. While I agree that we should wait for all the evidence, there are some serious issues with the case already.

    Firstly the mystery co-defendant.

    Secondly, his admission of guilt (without legal representation present) - although if all he did was share the code, he probably though he wouldn't need representation. So [the most likely secinario is that] he was honest and admitted that the code was originally his (before being used by someone else in Kronos).

    Thirdly the timing of his detention. If he was of such interest for so long, the FBI would have arrested him on entry, not exit. He would have been too much of a flight risk not to detain him on entry. Why do you think the FBI asked for him [in court at his indictment] to be detained without bail because they considered him to be a flight risk?

    Fourthly, the lack of evidence presented at his indictment. While not all evidence needs to be presented by the prosecution, enough evidence must be shown for detention. All that was presented were accusations, not evidence (so not following standard legal procedure).

    Fifthly, the extremely low level of bail set by the Judge. This is perhaps the most compelling, as it suggests that the total amount of evidence and it's quality (as seen by the Judge) is actually quite low (otherwise the bail would have been set in the millions, not tens of thousands).

    I'm (and many others here) are not saying that he is innocent. But there is a lot about this case that smells fishy.

    * US weapons manufacturers are all but immune from prosecution in such cases.

  27. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

    Re: Flocke Kroes Guilty - FAIL!

    Which is why interviews are taped

    "Err.. sorry yer honor, but we don't seem to have those tapes"

    Sotto voce

    Quick guys, go and make sure they are properly lost eh?

    /SV

  28. strum Silver badge

    Re: Proportionality? We've heard of it.

    > This is what happens to a country after eight years of radical community organizing.

    The US "Justice" system was pants, long before Obama's election. Your derangement explains why.

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Proportionality? We've heard of it.

    Having been in the jumpsuit and shackles myself, I somewhat understand the other side of the coin.

    1) For the most part, they have to treat everyone the same, special circumstances withheld.

    2) It is for safety purposes. While a person may not have a documented history of violence, it in no way removes the possibility of a person doing violent things to other inmates as well as the law enforcement/court personnel.

    Basically it is for show so the people in the court system feel safe. Where I was, they simply ran a chain around your waist and looped through your handcuffs. If you ever so slightly extended your stomach, it provided you enough slack later on to actually wiggle the chain up over your head and free your arm movement. In the holding cell at the court house, the toilet was around a corner from the guard's desk. Almost everyone that went to take a leak freed themselves like this. Having a chain to swing around at people, or to choke them, certainly isn't safe. Within the jail itself, they used leather belts drawn real tight. I never understood why they used chains for transporting.

    On a side note; A yellow jumper where I was meant administrative segregation. That could mean a variety of things such as medical, mental health issues, disciplinary reasons, or protective custody.

  30. Matt Bryant Silver badge
    FAIL

    Re: Domquark Re: Kaltern Proportionality? - FAIL! Fail again.

    ".....So a gun manufacturer could say "Hey, I mass produced millions of guns (a device designed to kill, maim or injure), sold them to millions of people, but never thought anyone use one to kill/maim/injure someone".*...." Actually the gun manufacturers expressly sell the weapons most commonly used in murders (handguns) in the hope they will be used to protect people. But of course, you don't know that because you never bothered to look at the gun companies, you simply took as gospel the line fed to you by the anti-gun crowd.

    "....The problem is that sharing such code is standard practice....." True, but that is not the issue. He is accused of not just sharing the code, but of co-operating in or instigating the design and sale of malware using some of his previously shared code. Try reading the article.

    ".....Secondly, his admission of guilt...." Yeah, more like he was shown his own blog and realised he'd look pretty stupid trying to deny it was his. Duh!

    "....Thirdly the timing of his detention....' He was on American soil for the first time since the Kronos issue arose, so the timing is not surprising, it's simply more convenient as the FBI didn't have to worry about trying to extradite him from the UK and then facing the same ridiculous shrieking as surrounded the Lauri Love and Gary McKinnon farces.

    ".....Fourthly, the lack of evidence presented at his indictment...." The authorities presented enough to keep Hutchins where they wanted him - in the US and awaiting trial. There was no need for them to go into greater depth because the judge agreed with their presentation. Again, READ THE ARTICLE!

    ".....Fifthly, the extremely low level of bail set by the Judge....." And how did you come to the conclusion it was an abnormally low amount for such a case? Did you look at other fraud or embezzlement cases of similar amounts? No, you just leapt to a pat conclusion.

    "....I'm (and many others here) are not saying that he is innocent. But there is a lot about this case that smells fishy....." What you are saying is you desperately, desperately want to baaaaahlieve he is innocent simply because you harbour faddish anti-American baaaaaahliefs inherited from the socio-political bubble of like-minded baaaaaahlievers you choose to spend time with.

  31. Matt Bryant Silver badge
    FAIL

    Re: Flocke Kroes Re: Flocke Kroes Guilty - FAIL!

    "The reason they are taped is because the police kept misreporting the interviews...." No, it was because people accused the police of fabricating confessions. Taping interviews (and videoing them) removes the chance that a criminal could get off by saying the police fabricated his confession. Strange, you now seem to recall the taping of interviews, you just want to pretend it somehow didn't apply to Hutchins?

    "....For more US police fun, see this report on a bodycam showing a policeman planting evidence...." <Yawn> Yes, try and divert attention from the fact you just had to admit your original post was stupidity of the highest order.

    "....Also current in the US, they have a law that lets the police steal anything valuable from you, and its up to you to sew the police force to get it back...." More diversion, only this time regurgitation of more anti-Yank boilerplate. The law in question states that items can only be confiscated when there is a real and demonstrated case that the items or money were the result of criminal activity, and happens in the EU also. Joe Blogs walking down the street is not going to have his clothing confiscated on some policeman's whim, but Jose Blogski - who does not have a job or visible means of support to justify his carrying large amounts of cash - walking out of a known drug-dealer's house with 5K Euros in cash is just as likely to have the cash seized. You really should read your own links before trying to cast unfounded aspersions on the US authorities.

  32. Oh Homer Silver badge
    Childcatcher

    Re: "Basically it is for show"

    Well it's showing more than just the paranoid members of your court system, it's showing the entire world that America is a brutal regime that treats non-violent suspects no differently than terrorists.

    It's not just the fact that the nature of the alleged crime in this case clearly doesn't warrant such harsh treatment, it's also the fact that the suspect has not even been prosecuted, and is therefore supposed to still be presumed innocent, and yet is being shackled and caged like an animal, and forced to pay entirely non-refundable "fees" just for the privilege of being arrested.

    As bad as things are in the UK (and yes they are extremely bad), if we treated our non-violent suspects like that over here, there would be public outrage and criminal proceedings against the violators.

  33. Domquark

    Re: Domquark Kaltern Proportionality? - FAIL! Fail again.

    Oh dear.

    I think you need to pop out and clean your "Kill 'em all let God sort 'em out" and "God is a member of the NRA" bumper stickers........

  34. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: "Basically it is for show"

    I certainly don't disagree with your response to my comment. It's pure shit being locked up and already treated as guilty. It's a lot worse when you're set free, having never been proven guilty, and STILL are treated as guilty by society.

    Privatized prisons/jails are an epic failure of my country. Our criminal justice system is often a joke. But herein lies a problem. Who the hell is going to prioritize changing this system? They'll argue that 'most' of the people in prison/jail are guilty, that it's an acceptable failure rate to have a few innocent people caught up in the system. Besides, treating (suspected) criminals better isn't going to win you many votes. Just to make sure of that, felons are prohibited from running for public office and sometimes, even from voting.

  35. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge

    Re: "Basically it is for show"

    @Matt

    "The law in question states that items can only be confiscated when there is a real and demonstrated case that the items or money were the result of criminal activity"

    That would be fine, but that isn't the case is it? If a police officer *suspects* that the asset is the result of criminal activity, then they can just take it. It is then up to the previous owner of the asset to prove that it wasn't the result of illegal activity.

    Wide open to abuse, and it certainly has been. I didn't think even you could defend such an outrageously oppressive policy (unless you're trolling of course).

  36. Matt Bryant Silver badge
    FAIL

    Re: Domquark Re: Domquark Kaltern Proportionality? - FAIL! Fail again. Again

    "....I think you need to pop out and clean your "Kill 'em all let God sort 'em out" and "God is a member of the NRA" bumper stickers........" Oh dear, I see that you have completely given up (not surprisingly) on countering the points raised, and have instead tryped (sic) some more bigoted remarks, this time assuming anyone pro-gun is a bible-thumper. Did you go to www.idiotsthatneedstereotypes.com for that one?

    Seriously, if you can't defend your position, at least try accepting your defeat with some grace.

  37. Matt Bryant Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Sir Runcible Spoon Re: "Basically it is for show"

    ".... I didn't think even you could defend such an outrageously oppressive policy (unless you're trolling of course)." As I pointed out in my response, it is no different to the asset seizure laws enacted in the EU, so to try and imply they are an American-only "abuse" is to ignore their application in so-called "enlightened" countries. Are you saying you therefore disagree with the similar EU laws?

    As it stands, the US laws have previously been used to confiscate the loot of drug dealers for decades, with billions of the seized assets and cash having been used to compensate victims of crime. Eric Holder ramped down the seizures but did not eliminate them. It has gained more attention recently because Jeff Sessions said he planned to ramp it back up, and anything related to Trumpet's administration is immediately and hysterically targeted by the Left as being "bad". Are you suggesting that the cartels, responsible for thousands of gang-related deaths in Mexico alone every year, shouldn't have their assets targeted?

  38. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge

    Re: Sir Runcible Spoon "Basically it is for show"

    "Are you suggesting that the cartels, responsible for thousands of gang-related deaths in Mexico alone every year, shouldn't have their assets targeted?"

    Now, now, you know very well I was objecting to the abuse of such laws, mostly allowed by the lack of control over their use. In answer to your other question, yes, I would object to these types of laws being abused in Europe as well :P

  39. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Flocke Kroes Flocke Kroes Guilty - FAIL!

    "....Also current in the US, they have a law that lets the police steal anything valuable from you, and its up to you to sew the police force to get it back...."

    More diversion, only this time regurgitation of more anti-Yank boilerplate. The law in question states that items can only be confiscated when there is a real and demonstrated case that the items or money were the result of criminal activity

    Err, no. See, for instance, this report but there's plenty more out there. The problem with CAF is that there is no real control on abuse, and recovery from such abuse is exceedingly complicated. Add to this that the police forces directly benefit from CAF by being able to keep anything from a hefty percentage to all of it (or the proceeds of the sale of the seized assets) and it was not just possible that CAF would be abused, it was pretty much certain. It's almost as if it was written for that explicit use because the controls on this law would be laughable if the consequences for the population weren't so dramatic.

    Quite frankly, CAF turns a police force into licensed, armed thieves who will hit upon anyone who is unlikely to be able to jank the whole sorry gang in front of a judge and sue the living daylights out of them - it's a good thing the ACLU started to support cases but it should not have been needed.

    and happens in the EU also

    Tsk tsk, Matt, engaging in whataboutism? It's almost as if you don't have much confidence in your own arguments..

  40. Mephistro Silver badge

    A question for some American lawyer

    If/when he's found not guilty, will the USA judiciary reimburse his expenses? (lawyers, lodging, ...)

    Because this accusation smells like a truckload of fresh poo.

  41. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge

    Re: A question for some American lawyer

    More likely get charged with wasting police time.

    Given his background; there's probably something the authorities can find which they can convince him an American court would find him guilty of and will have him agreeing to a plea bargain which will be used to justify his arrest, prosecution and persecution.

  42. EveryTime Silver badge

    Re: A question for some American lawyer

    "If/when he's found not guilty, will the USA judiciary reimburse his expenses? (lawyers, lodging, ...)"

    Of course not.

    It's worse than you are imagining. For most people posting a $30K bail means going to the bail bondsman and paying them $3K to post a court-accepted bond for you. That's $3K that you'll never get back. Even if you are completely exonerated. Even if public officials were negligent or malicious. Effectively just being arrested resulted in a $3K fine.

    If you are released on bail, you'll typically have to pay for all expenses. That includes paying a high rate for a GPS tracker, paying administrative fees, and paying for a court or law enforcement official to check up on you. Again, none of this is recoverable if you are exonerated, and it keeps adding up until you agree to a plea bargain.

  43. TheElder

    Re: will the USA judiciary reimburse his expenses?

    Sure, maybe. It will take many years to wind through the system after he tries to sue them. Cost will be astronomical and must be paid in advance. Absolutely no guarantee he will win.

    I wonder about the little tracker. There must some way to hack it. I have an old GPS watch and I can fool it pretty easily. Radio reflects all sorts of ways. Metal buildings and Airports come to mind.

  44. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Re: A question for some American lawyer

    "Again, none of this is recoverable if you are exonerated"

    Sue back in the UK? After all if the US wants to reach the rest of the world with its legal system why shouldn't the rest of the world reach them?

  45. Infernoz Bronze badge
    Devil

    Re: A question for some American lawyer

    It sounds like the US 'law' (statute policy) enforcers should be sued for slander, libel, kidnapping, coercion, extortion etc. for this completely unfounded persecution and unfair process. Oh course the neo-con, criminal thug, infiltrated state will probably just say get lost.

    The UK should end all deportation agreements with the rogue corporation called the USA, because they take the piss with their deportation requests too!

    Non-US computer security people should blacklist the US as a place for meetups because the USA corporation can't be trusted not to arrest foreigners on flimsy and bogus evidence!

    Personally, I will never even consider visiting the US while they have their TSA thugs and unsafe human body scanners!

  46. This post has been deleted by its author

  47. AlbertH

    Re: A question for some American lawyer

    I do know one guy (he's Dutch) who sued the State of Oregon for the refund of his Bail Bond, his legal expenses, lost earnings and even for the replacement air ticket he had to buy to get out of the country! It took over two years - and more expense - but he recovered the whole lot. It became an obsession, but he stuck it out and eventually won - from outside the USA.

    The US judicial system is really broken - particularly for foreign visitors. I certainly won't be going there again any time soon!!

  48. Oh Homer Silver badge
    Big Brother

    Re: "Effectively just being arrested resulted in a $3K fine"

    What an utter travesty, and sadly true.

    [B]ail bond fees,” the 10th Circuit judges wrote, “are administrative costs, rather than costs of prosecution, and therefore do not violate due process when imposed on a defendant who has been acquitted.
    Why am I suddenly reminded of Terry Gilliam's Brazil?

    American Freedumb® at its finest.

  49. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

    Re: "Effectively just being arrested resulted in a $3K fine"

    "administrative costs, rather than costs of prosecution, and therefore do not violate due process when imposed on a defendant who has been acquitted."

    That is just so wrong, and the sad thing is, they think it's right. In a civilised system, you simply cannot impose "administrative charges" on someone found not guilty. If the state mistakenly arrests someone without enough evidence, it';s on the state to pay for it, not the "not guilty" defendant.

    It's not as if it's not happened here in the UK either, sadly.

  50. Matt Bryant Silver badge

    Re: Infernoz Re: A question....

    Wow, IMHO, that was the most impressive troll snark EVER. The problem is it will float right over the Webkidz addled, paranoid heads, as it is a pretty exact parody of their tragi-comic "thought process". A shame they will never appreciate the true genius of your wit. Sir, I salute you.

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