back to article Microsoft: Get in, IT nerds, you're now using Insider builds and twice-annual Windows rollouts

Living up to its Windows-as-a-service promise, Microsoft has laid out the schedule it will use to roll out Windows 10 and Office 365 updates in future. The Redmond giant says that from now on, Windows and Office for desktop and notebook PCs will get roughly two updates a year that add features and fix bugs. Meanwhile, embedded …

IT Angle

Acme of Perfection

Wellsir, I'm just a lowly private user not attached to any Enterprise conflagration (I think I'm using that right... yes, definitely "conflagration"), but it's mighty satisfying to know that Redmond have my back in addition to my balls. And my money.

Right this minute the Update system is hung trying to download a "Feature update to Windows 10, version 1703", which is #terriblysad as I'm running version 1607. Perhaps it's a "feature" that will remove winver so that I'll no longer be able to easily determine my version number.

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Re: Acme of Perfection

I doubt Windows update is hung, it's just not written to run in a timely manner any more. As no one seems to schedule the updates to run at a quiet time I guess they've decided to make it effectively a background task. It's not like speed of updates is a concern for your average user, they usually just see the "I need to reboot" message at the "end" of the process.

I think it's best to stop watching it and just leave it for a couple of hours. In my experience it gets there in the end.

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Re: Acme of Perfection

"Right this minute the Update system is hung trying to download a "Feature update to Windows 10, version 1703","

yup, im seeing this on many customer machines...(the ones who didnt listen to me about staying on 7 and dont go anywhere near win 10 or new customers who have win 10) you are not alone. got 2 here right now.

had to rebuild one of them as it completely fucks the machine when it is just tryiong to download it. 100% disk usage, 100% cpu usage..cant do anything on the machine unless you want to wait for 20 minutes while it thinks about it. this isnt even installing it, its just trying to assess the machine to download it.

crazy shit man...

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FAIL

Re: Acme of Perfection

"As no one seems to schedule the updates to run at a quiet time I guess they've decided to make it effectively a background task. It's not like speed of updates is a concern for your average user"

It is for _THIS_ user. I watched, as multiple parallel downloads effectively nuked my bandwidth during their all-important update download, and ate my bandwidth for HOURS. And I was only TESTING Win-10-nic. But, I refuse to use it, _ALSO_ because of CRAP like THAT.

(the short explanation is that a single TCP stream will share bandwidth with other TCP streams. but if you create 20 TCP streams simultaneously, and max out bandwidth on all 20 of them, when #21 comes along (i.e. you're watching a video or listening to streaming radio), it's effectively DOS'd by that all-important goddammit you MUST get this done IMMEDIATELY (because, Microshaft) update download! And on my necessarily pathetic connection, it takes *HOURS*)

a) someone at Micro-shitaft must own stock in a telcom or something that gets a percentage of the revenue whenever ginormous amounts of traffic go across "teh intarwebs" from those updates...

b) Micro-shaft doesn't give a rat's backside about what their "bandwidth theft" does to customers, from not being able to stream live radio/video to effectively being DDoS'd (and that includes ISPs with the torrent-like "sharing" of bandwidth that exempts MICRO-SHAFT from having to serve it up, basically burdening EVERYONE ELSE with it)

c) Even though they say " Windows and Office for desktop and notebook PCs will get roughly two updates a year that add features and fix bugs" it's really "TAKE AWAY features that you want, cram a bunch of 'new, shiny' up your ass down your throat, and trade in 1 old bug for 3 NEW ONES"

And to think the chaos that one 'windows update' cycle can cause! And has done. On several occasions.

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No thanks. Keep your Windows 10, MS.

I'll just keep using my Windows 7 which runs perfectly on my new Kaby Lake system which I built a month ago - including all of the motherboard chipset drivers, etc, which allegedly were only available on the supplied Gigabyte MB driver disc for 6th but not 7th generation processors like Kaby Lake.

Oh, I also have all of the Windows Updates installed despite MS's ham fisted attempt back in April to block them for 7th generation processors (still waiting for the lawsuits to happen over that - I won't hold my breath though).

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Anonymous Coward

Heh, I'm still on Vista from 2008!

Security updates be damned.

Sooner or later, however, once the hardware gives up its ghost I shall have to upgrade to Win 10. Win 10 needs to be tamed and shackled greatly before it can be used.

Microsoft, if we need new 'features' we would have bought a newer edition of Windows after Win 10... ah, but that's too hard work You just had to shove everything down the users' throats, eh? You think you're so clever with Paint 3D and the Skype 'revamp' eh?

Honestly, I wouldn't mind if Microsoft adopts Apple's OSX upgrade model. You pay a nominal sum to upgrade to the latest version of OSX, but you still keep getting security updates for your existing older version of OSX.

But I guess SatNad's coterie of bean counters at Redmond have convinced him that the WaaS model is the best way to roll in the cash.

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I'll just keep using my Windows 7 which runs perfectly

You seem to have mis-spelt "FreeBSD"..

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Re: Heh, I'm still on Vista from 2008!

You pay a nominal sum to upgrade to the latest version of OSX

Where "a nominal sum" == £0.00 ?

(Upgrades between version have been free for quite a while).

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...

If the updates were called Service Packs, there wouldn't be so much furor from both side of the aisle, even though the situation has turned to worse with Win10.

With each earlier Windows version you needed to install the Service Packs to receive support and updates. Windows 7 RTM lost support two years after SP1 was released and while there undoubtedly have always been cases where Service Packs broke something in some specific system configuration or the applications needed updates to continue working - every operating system got better over time. This has been the case with Windows 10 as well - the updates have broken things but the OS has gotten better. (and in some cases also worse)

It's just the 18 month update policy that needs extra effort from the IT to handle these major updates. MS wants companies to pony up for the enterprise agreements and the LTSB versions with 10-year support.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Windows As A Service... Official ???

Probably a subscription for some of the pro/enterprise/virtualization features, but 'free' to use for everyone else (cost of Windows factored into device purchase cost).

Besides subscriptions (Azure, OneDrive and Office 365), SatNad's main revenue stream these days comes from data mining everyone and selling advertising. Usually, it's less data mining and more of a case of users foolishly letting Cortana 'learn more about you', using the Windows Store and linking all your social media accounts through Microsoft.

Oh, and Linkedin has been acquired by Microsoft. Joy.

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FAIL

Re: Windows As A Service... Official ???

"Are Microsoft psychologically preparing people to pay for Windows with a subscription in the future ?"

Reading THOSE tea leaves has been OBVIOUS for a VERY long time...

The answer is: YES. They want a TOLLBOOTH. And on the low end, it will be PAID FOR with ADS. f they must boil us slowly like the proverbial "frog soup" then THAT is what they will do. It's how they see US, not as CUSTOMERS, but as MINIONS.

/me recalls the movie Idiocracy, where "the Lawyer's" giant screen TV screen is 3/4 covered with ads, and only the middle 25% has the actual content you want in it. And he's watching the #1 rated show, "Ow, My Balls!"

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Right!

What if I don't trust the clowns in Redmond any more than the "Microsoft division" in Bangalore that phones me, wanting to help me?

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Happy

Re: What if I don't trust the clowns in Redmond

Use Linux? Buy a Mac? Run Android on a tablet with a keyboard? Bitch on a tech forum so you get lots of helpful suggestions?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Right!

It's not bitching, that comment has quite a clever underlying statement regards Microsoft. People don't forget what MS did regards the "Get Windows 10" campaign, in terms of borking Win7 Updates/forcing Win 10 installs, via the back door. If you kill "Trust", you ultimately, kill your product.

Be careful, if you try to prevent criticism of Microsoft by shooting the messenger, you're going to end up with an even shittier product than "Windows 10 as a Service", already is. Windows Update/Software as a Service (regards 10) is still a clunky bag of nails, make no mistake, seamless it ain't.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Right!

What we need is a competent rival to Windows that runs win32 apps flawlessly. It could be ReactOS, it could be something else.

As what DOSBox was for DOS, so shall that ReactOS thing be for Windows, minus all that crud introduced since Sinofsky's Win8 and SatNad's Win10.

Make no mistake about it, Windows or the Windows ecosystem will become more and more like a walled garden.In future, you probably can't install anything without going through the Windows Store.

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Pirate

Re: Right!

"What we need is a competent rival to Windows that runs win32 apps flawlessly. It could be ReactOS, it could be something else."

As much as I'd love to make THAT happen, using Linux (or FreeBSD) and WINE (if possible), the #1 disadvantage it would have is NOT the quality of the OS, the compatibility of the win32 API, nor people's willingness to "re-learn LESS and Go Linux" to switch to it [over what happened with "Ape" and Win-10-nic].

The problem is *MARKETING*. This is THE MOST EXPENSIVE PART, and Micro-shitshaft has (unfortunately) NAILED THIS for 3 DECADES since the inception of Windows 1.01 in 1985.

For this, I'd need a BEELION dollars. At least. And no hope for return on investment for at LEAST a decade. But, it would be FUN, wouldn't it?

Now, if we could convince Intel and AMD and Dell and HP and Lenovo and others that THEIR SALES REVENUE could be greatly IMPROVED by this, I think they'd be on board. So THAT might get the necessary BEELION dollars going. But yeah. That's what it would take.

[and I'd *LOVE* to do it!]

/me waves the Jolly Roger, being the 'privateer' type

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Bollocks to that

I have a fully documented build of Arch Linux for my workstation. It is AD joined and is finally, fully feature complete compared to all Windows workstations in my company. I have taken all requirements and met them via a VM running on my PC and then moved the config over to the parent PC and tested, tested, tweaked etc. When I say my company, it is actually mine - I'm the MD. It will take me something like another five years to transition everyone over, away from Windows but I am very, very patient.

Why Arch? - simple: it is clean and as close to the source as you can get and a rolling distro so never has that nasty major upgrade thing. I'm a fan of Gentoo but that takes nearly as long as Windows updates, so not good for general office use. My laptop runs Gentoo and keeps my lap warm.

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Re: Bollocks to that

So it runs Office 2016? Impressive...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Bollocks to that

Who said anything about Office? You simply don't need Office to run a business.

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Re: Bollocks to that

"So it runs Office 2016? Impressive..."

I don't do regressions

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Facepalm

Has my browser broken?

What's with all the wasted space to the left of the main stories?

Is it a nod to the sad farewell of windows mobile? OK, just for its remaining user:

There is a lo

making it har

can't see the

width of the

poor layout

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Re: Has my browser broken?

If you had discovered any wonderful mathematical proofs you could write them in the margin

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Re: Has my browser broken?

If you weren't using an ad blocker, you'd probably find that the narrow column of text is all that's left after the rest of the screen is full of adverts (I don't know for sure though, and there's no way I'm turning my ad blocker off to find out)

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Re: Has my browser broken?

Yes that's the case. I reinstalled recently and nearly choked on my tea when I saw the state of this site without an ad blocker (having forgotten to install it). Amazingly the other sites I visited looked much the same so it might just be the Reg left with such shitty adverts - perhaps as a reminder to switch on the ad blocker. I can't imagine anyone with an IQ over 4 would think people will use the site in that state.

Sorry Reg - I know you need to make money, and I'd love to help you do that, but you'll get no revenue from me that way!

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Re: Has my browser broken?

>Is it a nod to the sad farewell of windows mobile? OK, just for its remaining user:

> There is a lo

> making it har

> can't see the

> width of the

> poor layout

anks!

uch app

iated

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Windows

What's the problem?

Just installed the Redstone 4 insider build that'll be released next Spring. It's not difficult to do any testing well before the s/w hits desktops.

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Re: What's the problem?

"before the s/w hits desktops."

Typo?

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Gimp

Re: What's the problem?

"It's not difficult to do any testing well before the s/w hits desktops."

Still with the bugs the testing flags up...

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From the article: Microsoft said that every twice-a-year release will get 18 months of support, dubbed the Semi-Annual Channel, meaning you should plan to update at least once every couple of years if you want to maintain support.

Unless I've missed something, no, it means you have up to six months from release to reach full deployment, and an annual upgrade.

March - release 1, earliest point you can begin testing

September - full deployment of release 1

March - release 3

September - release 1 support ends, but you've just deployed release 3, phew!

etc

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Anonymous Coward

Windows 10 is the new

Involuntary Suppository.

M$: pushing shit backwards since Time Immemorial.

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Gimp

Re: Windows 10 is the new

users: Oi! Stop pushing Win10 down our throats!!

MS: Er, OK then. bend over...

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Re: Windows 10 is the new

And the M$'s start........................ YAWN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Play nice, my 4 year old does

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Gimp

Re: Windows 10 is the new

"Play nice, my 4 year old does."

Because he has Windows to play on?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Windows 10 is the new

"Because he has Windows to play on?"

No SHE plays with Linux, mind you she's also happy to play with an empty cardboard box.

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Devil

Re: Windows 10 is the new

"No SHE plays with Linux,"

Oops, sorry for the missing 's', using a Microsoft keyboard...

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Still not 'buying' it

I have a new laptop coming with Windows 10 on the HDD. The HDD will be cloned to a 'backup' file (using Acronis) and that file buried deep within my file store. Then the HDD will be wiped for other use.

Then I will fit a replacement SSD which will have Linux Mint installed on it. From there, I'll install Win 7 in a VM so I can do the few software things I need to that Linux can't handle.

Win 10 won't even figure, because I cannot trust Microsoft won't grab data from me they simply shouldn't (confidential documents, passwords, etc), even on their 'basic' privacy setting. Also, with the forced updates there is too much risk of destabilizing the PC and leaving me without an essential work tool. OK, those updates don't have to be installed straight away, but even after 18 months there remains the possibility that components of the OS could be removed that I use (Paint, anyone?)

So even with all my reservations about the Linux having too much reliance on CLI, I'd rather tackle that fight than the whack-a-mole with Win 10's lack of privacy and unpredictable results of the updating.

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Re: Still not 'buying' it

"I have a new laptop coming with Windows 10 on the HDD."

PC Specialist will sell you a laptop without Windows of any variety.

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Re: Still not 'buying' it

I just did precisely the same thing on a new Acer Aspire...and it's working pretty much perfectly, other than the odd systemD screwup. Happy camper here. I don't see *reliance* on CLI in Mate 18.2, but it's nice to have once you are adept with it - it's faster than clicky for a lot of things. I did edit a couple of config files to my liking, but that's not CLI, that's just editing text. Might as well actually use all those buttons in front of you once in awhile...

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FTFY

> "Sysadmins who have only just upgraded from Windows 7, there's a brown paper bag on your doorstep that's just been set alight."

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Big Brother

Windows, what a pane!

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-info.aspx

Windows 7 and 8.1 are keepers

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Did we mention...

we are updating your machine this morning and you have no chance of doing anyway work until it is finished. Which is probably lunchtime.

Please send the bill for your lost time to someone who actually gives a fcuk. Because we don't.

Love, M$

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Re: Did we mention...

yup. its killing the machine before it even finishes downloading it. win 10 upgrade assistant and windows update consuming entire machines resources on several i have here in the lab. crazy shit man....

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Did we mention...

Funny,

my RPi running Linux, and my Linux mint box wont do anything until they have updated either.... whats that you say - switch auto updates off - Good idea.

Oh wait - you didn't say that re Microsoft did you

My bad.

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Facepalm

Re: Did we mention...

"my RPi running Linux, and my Linux mint box wont do anything until they have updated either.... "

Lies. Stick to Windows... you can't work a Pi...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Did we mention...

"Lies. Stick to Windows... you can't work a Pi..."

Call me any things never a liar

I've run Linux systems for years and have developed industrial applications for the RPi.

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Linux

Re: Did we mention...

My RPis either run with FreeBSD or I'd shut off "auto update" (it doesn't appear to be enabled in the Raspbian that's based on Debian Wheezy). If I want to update, there's the apt package utilities and a command line. And ONLY if _I_ want it, at a time chosen by _ME_.

So, just don't use a Raspbian version with either systemd or auto update running, and you'll be fine. the one based on Debian Wheezy still works, and it's only a couple of years old... [and apparently still being maintained/updated]

https://downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/images/raspbian-2015-05-07/

apparently THIS guy has a version that he ran the updates on, and he says it boots ok on an RPi 3

https://sourceforge.net/projects/raspbian-wheezy-pi/

You're welcome

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Did we mention...

I turned off updates for the Pi, just the same as someone using Windows can - So to whinge about Windows updating when its not convenient is the same as if I whinged about my Linux based kit doing the same and chose to do nothing about it - i.e. My own fault.

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Thumb Down

Re: Did we mention...

You are any things, but no Linux user.

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Not all bad

Assuming the upgrades work (and they usually don't bork a machine these days) I think this is a good thing from the perspective that it forces normalisation of upgrading. This means admins will practice, finally implement proper automation, and stop falling behind. It also means the boss will have to listen.

Yes, it's a pain. But if you concentrate on the good aspects of this it's not quite as bad as it looks on first sight.

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