back to article Trump backs off idea for joint US/Russian 'impenetrable Cyber Security unit'

US president Donald Trump has revealed that he and Russian opposite number Vladimir Putin discussed creation of a joint “impenetrable Cyber Security unit” at the G20 Leaders summit, but then displayed Modern Presidential behaviour by quickly dismissing the chances of the unit ever materialising. Trump was a bit late to reveal …

Mushroom

What a f@#$ing rube

'Nice henhouse you have there, Komrad Trump, we should form partnership to protect it, da?'

'Stupendous! Fantastic! Greatest idea very ever!'

I really can't tell whether he's a total f@#$ing rube or a total f@#$ing stooge.

To be fair, he could be both.

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Re: What a f@#$ing rube

"Stupendous! Fantastic! Greatest"

These words are syllables outside Trump's vocab parameters. More likely would be

'Nice henhouse you have there, Komrad Trump, we should form partnership to protect it, da?'

"Great. Best idea ever I've ever had."

"Your idea, Komrad Trump?"

"I have all the smart ideas. I'm president. The best president."

"Of course, Komrad Trump, this is all your idea. You are very clever person. Far smarter than simple servant of the Russian people. Now let's tell everyone about your idea."

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Thumb Down

Re: What a f@#$ing rube

I hit "downvote" a bunch of times but it didn't work after the first one...

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Re: What a f@#$ing rube

"I hit "downvote" a bunch of times but it didn't work after the first one."

I'm sure we can provide you with a few spares.

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Re: What a f@#$ing rube

But Mr Bob, wouldn't multiple votes from one person be voter fraud?

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Trollface

Re: What a f@#$ing rube

But Mr Bob, wouldn't multiple votes from one person be voter fraud?

Haven't you noticed? Immoral but not criminal acts by chump's opponents are grounds for multiple investigations and attempts to "lock her up" regardless of the outcome. However outright criminal acts (or acts exactly the same as the other side) by dump&co are perfectly alright. CMIC allegedly screwed his daughter? BUT..BUT KILLARY KNOWS SOMEONE WHO KNOWS SOMEONE WHO ONCE WAS A DEFENSE LAWYER FOR SOMEONE WHO MET A CHILD MOLESTOR IN PRISON SO SHE IS MUCH MUCH WORSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! etc etc (sorry the frothing is a bit hard to do on a tablet)

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Anonymous Coward

Look Mr Putin I'm going to ask you once more, did you mess with our election to make me president?

The question itself is the most ludicrous and ridiculous statement I have ever had the opportunity to consider in my entire life but consider it I must.

The conclusion, I honestly don't know, I can only surmise that someone has spiked the water with LSD and when we all come down it'll be thermonuclear war.

Based on the above how the f*ck could they ever even consider working together on matters of cyber security? If they did who would they then blame for hacking? One less from the Axis of Evil.

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"so that election hacking, & many other negative things, will be guarded"

Guarded as in protected?

Pardon me, Mr. President, your slip is showing.

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Someone else posted that Twatter comment. Trump would have poster "...& lots of other bad things". "negative" is too bigly for him, too may of them there sillyballs.

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There's no such thing as a "cyber" cease fire

A cease fire in a traditional war is pretty simple to monitor, but how do you monitor a cease fire of hacking? It is pretty much impossible to conclusively prove that Russians hacked the US, as well as the reverse if we counterattacked (and maybe we did and it isn't publicly known)

Not to mention that a "cease fire" implies there has been official hacking, and given that Putin has always denied this it seems odd he'd commit himself to a cease fire. That's like me committing to quit having sex with Scarlett Johannson.

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Re: There's no such thing as a "cyber" cease fire

I would quite like the opportunity to be able to commit to quit having sex with Scarlett Johannson.

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Re: There's no such thing as a "cyber" cease fire

It's clearly off-topic, but I would like to take advantage of this opportunity to vigorously deny all rumours that I had sex with Scarlett Johansson.

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Stop

Re: There's no such thing as a "cyber" cease fire

DougS, he's talking about the latest attempt at US-Russian ceasefire in Syria, not a ceasefire in cyber attacks between US and Russia.

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Re: There's no such thing as a "cyber" cease fire

Rumours, what rumours?

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The only case where you cooperate with the designated enemy

Is when there is an even bigger enemy to deal with.

Russia is the designated enemy. It never stopped being so. In the last 30 years USA, UK and to a lesser extent some other NATO countries invested billions into regime change operations, "freedom fighters" of the variety that take children primary schools hostage, propaganda, media, political parties - anything you can think of. In vain - in fact it backfired. If we just left them alone in the 1990-es the natural course of events would have taken course and they would have been ruled by an adorable drunk while slowly slipping into irrelevance off the world's stage. They would have handed their nukes for more loans and more bribes to the ruling class by now just the way Ukraine did.

But no, we had to keep poking the wasps nest and instead of an adorable drunk we have Putin, T14 Armata tanks, Circon/Bramos-2 hypersonic missiles and plenty of other toys like Leader class nuclear destroyers enqueued in the pipeline. And just to make things clear - we are the designated enemy on their side.

So, back on the topic. The only way these two sides will grudgingly agree to share toys is if some green lizard men from Gliese enter orbit tomorrow and we need to deal with a bigger threat.

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Re: The only case where you cooperate with the designated enemy

The Soviet Union was the designated enemy, but Russia (the descendant of the SU for you kids) has been pretty much ignored by the propaganda machine until recently. The oligarchs, after wasting Libya and Iraq, wanted to subjugate Syria & Ukraine, but Russia objected. Russia, thus, was again designated, and its enemy status was pushed further when the Democratic party thought it would be advantageous.

Modern kids don't see Russia as an enemy; only old farts indoctrinated during the better-dead-than-red era do.

Wasn't Russia our biggest ally in WWII? (Never mind the War of Independence.) Didn't Russia provide us with information about Afghanistan after 9-11? Didn't the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) warn us (twice!) about the Tsarnaev family (Boston Marathon bomb)? Doesn't Russia ferry our astronauts to and from the International Space Station for cheaper than it cost us to do it with the Shuttle? Doesn't Russia provide NASA with RD-180 engines to power rockets?

In short, a cooperative cyber security operation is certainly doable. It's a very good idea too. It's just that the ColdWar2 politicians like opposing it.

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Re: The only case where you cooperate with the designated enemy

Wasn't Russia our biggest ally in WWII?

Not at the start - Hitler and Stalin had a nice pact (that extended to effectively carving up Eastern Europe between them) that only fell apart when Hitler forgot the Napoleon Rule and decided to invade the USSR.

At which point, Stalin did a 180 and preached Eternal War against the Hitlerites..

Never mind the War of Independence

Nope. Given that Russia was rules by the Tsars during that period (who really, really didn't want their subject countries getting ideas above their station), the US' biggest ally was France - for mostly geopolitical reasons - France was busy being at war with Britain and wanted them weakened by any means possible. It's also worth noting that the best British troops were tied up in Europe and, had they been available to ship to the US, the story might have been quite different. Or, possibly, just a lot more drawn out.

In short - if that's the crux of your arguement, then you need to learn a bit more about history.

In short, a cooperative cyber security operation is certainly doable.

Sure - *if* you trust your ally. Given that trust in international politics is rarer than honesty in politics, it's vanishly unlikely.

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Re: @CrazyOldCatMan Hitler and Stalin had a nice pact

Hitler and Stalin fought a proxy war in Spain in 1936-1939 and USSR lost that war, clearly the pact (Molotoff-Ribbentrop) doesn't mean they were friends or allies.

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WTF?

Re: The only case where you cooperate with the designated enemy

You claim the Beslan massacre was a NATO-sponsored operation to destablise Russia.

You get ten upvotes.

Wow. Just wow.

(In case anyone's forgotten: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege )

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WTF

Exactly who voted for this clown to the White House?

Oh yeah, I forget. It's the bloody Russians.

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Megaphone

Re: WTF

there is no "clown" in the white house, only the BEST president since Reagan. Americans are sick of "presidents" like Obaka bowing to the Saudi king, apologizing for being America, and basically acting ike a female bonobo monkey "saying hello" (they bare their buttocks and allow random males to have sex with them). FINALLY there's someone in the White House that understands the process of foreign policy when it comes to making agreements.

Oh, but that's not the answer you were looking for, were you? People like ME voted for Trump. Happy?

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WTF?

Re: WTF

Americans are sick of "presidents" like Obaka

1) What you say about former President Obama may be true, but at least he wasn't publicly lusting after his own daughter!

2) WTF is 'Obaka' supposed to mean anyway?

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Re: WTF

FINALLY there's someone in the White House that understands the process of foreign policy when it comes to making agreements.

Trump hasn't the first clue how to manage foreign policy, he treats it like a business deal, just as he does everything else.

People like ME voted for Trump. Happy?

Not happy, just sympathise deeply, and hope you get some help soon.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF

Bob, I hope one day you find your female bonobo monkey.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Whats this GUI thingy?

I didn't know Americans did irony.

But just in case you were deadly serious....

1. There is a clown in the White House. This can be reliably demonstrated through almost his every deed and utterance. He says one thing and does another, he says he won't do something and then will do it. Just in case you were struggling with this I'll helpfully list some of them out.

a) China as a currency manipulator. Now changed his mind

b) NATO is obsolete. Now changed his mind.

c) Masses of abuse for Obama for playing golf, plays more Golf in the first months of presidency than Obama.

d) Was going to drain the swamp. Mmm... seems to have embraced the swamp and filled it with his cronies.

e) Syria - Don't attack - Now attacks without congressional approval

f) Daid he would save Medicare (http://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/03/10/trump-promises-not-to-cut-medicaid-newday.cnn), now proposes to take 22M Americans healthcare away from them. Admittedly this is with the help of the GOP.

Now lets look at the other stupid things he's done

a) Withdrawn from the Paris Climate deal. Trump kept saying that it imposed burdens on America. It doesn't impose anything on America as its all voluntary. He can change what America does at any time without any consequence whatsover.

b) Constantly denied that Climate Changes exists at all, calling it a Chinese hoax. This is based on no evidence at all, even the fossil fuel companies acknowledge its there.

c) Dumped an anti-corruption bill that required energy companies to disclose payments to foreign governments.

d) Killed a bill to stop mining companies dumping their waste in streams. Trump allows waste into clean water over peoples health.

e) Tried to pull funding from Planned Parenthood.

f) Tried to setup an anti-hacking group with Putin who he finally accuses of hacking. This should be filed under "Puttinf (pun intended) the fox in charge of the hen house".

g) Keeps claiming he's going to build big beautiful wall and that Mexico is going to pay for it. Lets see how thats going so far, nope, nothing so far.

Now it may be that Trump has a deep and detailed knowledge of foreign policy, but I'm pretty sure he's hiding it well. He appears to have alienated most Western leaders with the exception of people like Durantes and the right wing Polish govt, oh and Putin. Now whilst the USA does have tremendous military might, it needs the cooperation of many other govts to do business, e.g. we all have to agree to free trade otherwise we end up putting tariffs up, so whilst Trump may impose steel tariffs, something else will give going the other way. Cooperation is a two way street, and to be honest, the EU which is rather a large economic block doesn't take well to his constant flip flopping and dismal ideas.

Now I have no idea about some of his other stuff, such as connections to Russia, or how much he is really worth, but I do think the man protesth too much. Firing Comney was a dumb idea, boasting about how much he is worth but refusing to release his tax returns is also a dumb idea. Whats he got to hide?

I give him another year before even the GOP decide he's too far out of control for even those loonies and set Pence up to take over the presidency. Isn't that the 25th Amendment.

Oh and I'm from the UK, so I don't get the chance to vote for the lying, abusive, serially bankrupt conman that a large proportion of the US did vote for.

I look forward to the next thrilling installment of Trump. It's always a thrill to wake up and see what other lunacy he's perpetrated on the world.

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Stop

Re: WTF - @Bombastic Bob - How can you be so wrong?

Bonobos are not monkeys, they are great apes!

(mutters under breath "just like your troglodyte president")

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Re: WTF

"2) WTF is 'Obaka' supposed to mean anyway?"

I guess it was an honest typo, unless he's using a DVORAK keyboard. Shame he didn't got full keyboard warrior and use "Barrack HUSSEIN Obama" - it always amuses me when I see that.

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Re: Whats this GUI thingy?

I use the Make Trump Tweets Eight Again plugin for Chome - it converts tweets by him into a coloured 8 year old scrawl and puts some well needed levity* into his otherwise disturbing communications.

* Sometimes you need to laugh, just so you don't cry (or at the very least hurt your head by slamming it into the desk).

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Pint

Upvoting

Had to upvote - for the unmatched irony of reading the first paragraph as sarcasm especially with the 'foreign policy' jocularity, followed by the unexpected revelation that it was both entirely serious and a heartfelt confession.

Yes, it made me happy. Mission accomplished, and may we have more posts like this please.

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Re: bonobos

@Scroticus Canis

Linnaean classification has been abandoned as unfit for purpose. People tried to patch it up with sub-orders, infra-orders, super-genera and hacks like that but it became unworkable.

These days, biologists use cladistic taxonomy: organisms are categorized based on shared derived characteristics that can be traced to a group's most recent common ancestor and are not present in more distant ancestors.

We, and bonobos, are apes because our most recent common ancestor had the characteristics of an ape. We, and bonobos, are also monkeys because our most recent common ancestor with monkeys would have been classified as a monkey.

You recoil from that? But you have absolutely no problems with admitting that we're placental mammals (like cats, dogs, etc). Or that we're mammals (which includes the non-placental mammals like kangaroos and the duck-billed platypus). We're also vertebrates (which includes birds, reptiles, amphibians, mammals and fish). You'll probably also admit that we're animals (although you might need to be pushed into that one by first admitting that we're not plants or fungi).

Cladistic taxonomy has some interesting outcomes. Birds are classed as dinosaurs. Which is really cool. Mankind really did walk with dinosaurs, and still does. Just not the big ones the creationists would have you believe.

Cladistic taxonomy is not without problems. Technically we're also fish. We're derived from that branch of fish that moved onto land. In that sense, birds, amphibians, and reptiles are also fish. Biologists tend to avoid mentioning that, but it's how the system works. A clade starts at one point on the tree of life and encompasses all of its descendants. Those of us who aren't biologists tend to use "fish" in a non-cladistic way because it's more useful in everyday usage.

So, yes, bonobos are monkeys. Unlike most monkeys, they're also apes. As are we.

For more details, see This video by Aron Ra (contains language that some people might consider NSFW).

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF

>People like ME voted for Trump

Insecure, childish and ignorant people?

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Re: Whats this GUI thingy?

I didn't know Americans did irony.

I think that was more of sarcasm. I think you find we do Irony quit well. Trumps people wanted a politician that would listen to them and make a change for the better. He gets in and tells them that medical it's gone.

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Re: WTF

One of these days, I'll figure out if you actually believe this or are just trolling for kicks and grins.

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Re: Whats this GUI thingy?

"set Pence up to take over the presidency."

Sadly, that could be even worse. Isn't Pence one of those who believes Bishop Ushers dating of the Earth.

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Re: WTF

"2) WTF is 'Obaka' supposed to mean anyway?"

I guess it was an honest typo,

I've seen him do it quite a lot. Could be a typo but I don't recall him ever using "Obama"

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Re: WTF

Correct Bob, there is no clown in the White House, a clown tends to have empathy and understand people and would probably do a far better job than Don the Con the Fart.

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Re: Whats this GUI thingy?

"Just in case you were struggling with this I'll helpfully list some of them out."

Not to mention the Qatar fiasco.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Whats this GUI thingy?

You are correct, I missed the Qatar lunacy. My apologies.

It's getting difficult to keep track of what the US is doing these days, Trump says something, the State Dept says something else, they try and sync up. Trump then tweets and destroys all his own arguments as well as the State Depts'.

I wonder if this is DoubleThink (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink). I have to say that Trump appears to be a master of this, or it could be simply his brain works that way. A previous partner did her thesis in split brain personalities, Trump doesn't appear to have the sort of symptoms that her research logged, but every case was different.

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Re: WTF

omg my first downvote - I am thrilled, and hope you accept this downvote on behalf of fuck off.

Excuse me for descending to the low level. I meant to go high. Next time!

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Re: bonobos

Cladistically speaking, then, man-bear-pig might be real (lordy!) or man-monkey-fish anyway.

Thanks, that was fascinating!

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Re: WTF is 'Obaka' supposed to mean anyway?

baka means "stupid" in japanese. O'baka is a honorific form, maybe smth along the His Stupid Majesty lines.

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Re: WTF

People like ME voted for Trump. Happy?

No. And not surprised, either, considering the level of coherence or facts in any of your recent posts.

OK, that you admitted voting for Herr Lügenführer should be considered a "fact". That's one....

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Re: Whats this GUI thingy?

I have to say that Trump appears to be a master of this, or it could be simply his brain works that way.

The concept that Drumpf's brain works is oxymoronic on its face.

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The horror. The shame.

It will be over soon my friends. Perhaps in a few years we can pretend it never happened.

In the meantime, before you get all hateful about our indiscretion in allowing this fool to be elected, let's not go there. You've had your share of losers (Cough, John, cough). Nobody's perfect.

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Re: The horror. The shame.

Soon? You mean the ejection seat route so that you get a creationist as president?

Maybe I should look to getting one of those tickets to Mars…

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Re: The horror. The shame.

It will be over soon my friends. Perhaps in a few years we can pretend it never happened.

Sure just ignore the damaged earth that poison us in revenge. The lakes and rivers that catch fire . The excessive radiation that are causing hideous mutations in plant and animal live.

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Re: The horror. The shame.

Can you define "soon"? The way I see it, is that the Repubs in Congress are shifting support slowly. Trump won't be booted but will try for re-election as his ego says he's a minor deity. What will need changing by the people is the way many vote. I know of too many who hit the "vote entire ticket" button and while they feel good about most of the candidates in their party, they don't consider the consequences of voting each candidate based on the merits of the candidate rather than the party as a whole. This may change to a certain extent next time around. Or not.

IF Trump were consistent in his views and put away his Twatter feed, and hung around more in the White House, and got rid of a few family members in high places, the populous might raise his approval ratings. Seems no matter how much he screams on Twatter, his popularity continues to drop. I think the problem is that none of the voters really have a clue what stands for nor what he'll support on any given day. The only they know is that he's screaming for attention.

I've been watching the CongressCritters and they seem to be acting, for the most part, as independents and that's good. I'm all for a 3rd party with some heavy support in this country if for no other reason than to disrupt the good-old-boy network in government. Maybe this President will bring it about. A realistic 3rd party without axes to grind like the environmental crowd or other one trick pony parties.

We need elected officials who can think and not play follow the leader. We have real problems and the tired old politics aren't the solution. The old saying about "if you keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, you're doing it wrong." applies.

I'll go kick the soapbox back into the corner and see how close it is to beer o'clock.

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Its all pretty obvious

Its Trumps way of doing what his Russian masters ask but hiding the fact from the Americans in the street.

Namely giving the USSR the keys to the USA.

I wonder what the total cost of being made President is and when will Russia collect

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Re: Its all pretty obvious

"I wonder what the total cost of being made President is and when will Russia collect"

They're already collecting; the USA is already degraded in its ability to operate overseas, NATO is already less effective due to concerns that, should the need arise, the USA won't respond as expected.

And it's not just the USA; the loss of the UK means the EU is weakened in its dealings with Russia, so Putin is winning on a number of fronts in international politics.

If the Russians played a small part in getting Trump into the White House, it's not necessarily because Trump is their man; as long as he's less effective against Putin that the alternatives then its a win for Putin.

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Re: Its all pretty obvious

Another one who's still living in the eighties.

FYI, There is no USSR anymore.

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