back to article Windows Insiders with SD cards turn into OneDrive outsiders

Microsoft has tried to DoS its forum servers, by changing its OneDrive consumer policy to only support cloud backups of NTFS-formatted drives without warning users first. Unsurprisingly, that's lit up the forums with complaints, because people only found out when OneDrive popped up error messages. Windows 10 insiders copped …

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  1. tjdennis2

    Place holders

    The new Place Holders feature in OneDrive required changes to NTFS to support the virtual files. I guess they assumed they couldn't support other file systems if Place Holders wasn't something you could just disable.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      If this is all about Placeholders, here's one: The K Edition of Windows 10.

      I have my Windows 10 folder/placeholder already created for the K Edition of Windows 10. We've already decided on the naming convention for the Oct/Nov 2017 release of Windows 10.

      Why K-Edition?

      Windows 10 F'CU, "K Ed.ition".

      1. Mpeler
        Mushroom

        Re: If this is all about Placeholders, here's one: The K Edition of Windows 10.

        Yep. From "One Drive" to "NONE DRIVE".

        Way to go, Satan Nutella, you've børked everyone again...

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Meh

      Re: Place holders

      When they had place holders in Windows 8 it didn't need NTFS.

      Just another excuse for lock-in to keep the Nice Try File System relevant.

      1. Trilkhai

        Re: Place holders

        Nice Try File System is far too kind — I've been known when frustrated to call it "Not This Fucking Shit!".

      2. Jonathan 27

        Re: Place holders

        That's why they didn't work properly and programs would try to open the placeholder file instead of downloading the file properly. That is why they killed the feature and re-wrote it.

        1. Dan 55 Silver badge

          Re: Place holders

          Dropbox seem to have worked it out without this restriction though.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

    It's like they WANT to piss their customer base off so bad that the customers go elsewhere.

    Web cam works? *Apply update* Not anymore.

    Microphone works? *Update* Not anymore!

    File system works? *Update* Not anymore!

    What's next, MS deciding to remove your networking device drivers as a "security measure to protect against hackers"? I'm sure THAT will go over well when their customers can no longer get online...

    1. Nate Amsden Silver badge

      Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

      I think they did that one already

      https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/09/mysterious_windows_10_networking_bug/

      1. Nate Amsden Silver badge

        Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

        I have been linux on the desktop/laptop since about 1997 now, wow has it been that long. But I still have a windows 7 VM and my main computer is still dual boot with windows 7 (one of the last laptops that sold with windows 7).

        I have used a bit of windows 2012 (always quickly installed classic shell, though have no intention of using windows 10 as long as win7 still works. Shit, even my recent windows server deployments were all 2008R2(windows makes up less than 1% of my server infrastructure).

        MS just seems hell bent on screwing power users over, it is quite unfortunate. I used to be hard core anti MS back in the 90s, but was getting to like them(even bought several copies of windows 7 and Visio) up until they started the windows 10 push.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

      "What's next, MS deciding to remove your networking device drivers as a "security measure to protect against hackers"?

      I'm pretty sure it was during the Creator's update that a lot of the vendor's wifi card drivers were replaced with a generic Microsoft one that didn't work so well.

    3. Mage Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

      Indeed. The entire philosophy of making Windows into a bad copy of Android is crazy. Windows 10, Windows Store, One Drive etc are stupid and possibly illegal too.

      1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
        Mushroom

        "The entire philosophy of making Windows into a bad copy of Android is crazy. "

        Ahhhhhhh.

        The light dawns with the intensity of a nuclear weapon.

        That's the reason for all this crazy s**t.

        Microsoft are remembering the days when they were an effective monopoly.

        The good old days (for Microsoft)

        "We can do anything. We don't care if users don't like it. They'll whine a bit then do it anyway. Because we're Microsoft."

    4. Mage Silver badge

      Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

      You left out AUTOMATIC Win10 update that updated FIRMWARE and bricked Win10 x86 Tablets with keyboards used as Netbooks.

      Not recoverable without special programming hardware and original firmware.

      All of the MS "Cloudy" stuff seems to be a broken menace on a laptop / net book / x86 tablet used in traditional windows fashion to create / edit content.

      1. Fibbles

        Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

        You forgot the anniversary update that messed up the partition table on dual boot systems. They subdivided the Windows partition to create a recovery partition but when rebuilding the partition table assumed anything with a filesystem that Windows doesn't native support was just empty space. Goodbye grub, goodbye Linux.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      The network removal will be hailed as a triumph of customer service

      Since, unlike this debacle, there'll very few complaints logged on the MS forum servers...

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

      It's like they WANT to piss their customer base off so bad that the customers go elsewhere.

      I'm getting the impression they merely want to filter out the recalcitrant sheep so they know what's left will accept anything. At which point prices will go up..

    7. Christian Berger Silver badge

      Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

      "It's like they WANT to piss their customer base off so bad that the customers go elsewhere."

      Maybe they see this as the reason why Apple is so successfull?

    8. Paul Shirley

      Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

      My network regularly vanishes after letting update shit all over win10.

    9. fobobob

      Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

      Had some twit at a datacenter (softlayer, pre-IBM) respond to a (not particularly terrible) DDoS attack by, in his own paraphrased/summarized words "drop protocol 6 to port 80 and protocol 17 to port 53". This was on an Arbor TMS, which has much more advanced attack mitigation capabilities than just knocking a shared (several hundred customers) webserver off of the Internet. Point is, assume incompetence followed by laziness in this case.

    10. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Sky blue, water wet, MS fucking over customers...

      heh. I love the reference. "And old Satan Clause, he's out there"

      [The Last Boy Scout]

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Holmes

    This has been going on with Win10 for a couple years, Win8 too if I recall

    One workaround was to format the SD card as NTFS, then use disk manager to assign it to an empty folder on the C drive. Not sure if it still works. I don't like syncing cloud services or backup services to SD cards. Windows has a funny habit of reassigning drive letters occasionally if a card pops out by accident. Could cause another external drive to be overwritten.

    1. Nate Amsden Silver badge

      Re: This has been going on with Win10 for a couple years, Win8 too if I recall

      Not that I need to sync with this but isn't the point of not using NTFS so the SD card is portable to other systems whether a camera, or something ??

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: This has been going on with Win10 for a couple years, Win8 too if I recall

        Yes, but if you were going to dedicate the card for OneDrive sync, NTFS used to have some advantages over FAT32 and exFAT in terms of search speed, compression, large file size, security settings. I'm assuming things haven't changed much in that regard the past couple of years.

      2. LDS Silver badge

        "to other systems whether a camera, or something ??"

        If you're using a card in a camera, you usually don't want anything else but the camera messes with the card contents. You usually copy files out of the card, but let the camera manage the card. Most camera software is not designed to cope with cards managed also by other systems, they usually follow "Design rule for Camera File system", and may not like alterations to its structure.

        I would never attempt to sync a card used in a camera directly with OneDrive or anything alike (unless the camera has specific support), if a backup is needed copy the data to a OneDrive folder elsewhere.

        Cards used elsewhere as portable disks are another matter.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "to other systems whether a camera, or something ??"

          LDS - "I would never attempt to sync a card used in a camera directly with OneDrive or anything alike"

          Me neither. That would be begging for chaos.

        2. jelabarre59 Silver badge

          Re: "to other systems whether a camera, or something ??"

          I would never attempt to sync a card used in a camera directly with OneDrive or anything alike (unless the camera has specific support), if a backup is needed copy the data to a OneDrive folder elsewhere.

          Exactly. Just load MobaXterm or Cygwin on that sucker, and rsync your OneDrive folder to the SD card.

      3. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: This has been going on with Win10 for a couple years, Win8 too if I recall

        "isn't the point of not using NTFS so the SD card is portable to other systems whether a camera, or something"

        pretty much, yeah. Or a Linux computer, for that matter.

        /me wonders if there will EVER be a 'user file system' (as in non-kernel), such as 'Fuse', but on winders, where people can pretty much do "whatever they want" just like in Linux and FreeBSD.

        next, the ability to format exFAT or FAT or FAT32 will be removed...

    2. michael.moon

      Re: This has been going on with Win10 for a couple years, Win8 too if I recall

      This is all well and good , BUT most cameras in fact I will say I have yet to see a camera that supports NTFS on a media card, so yay it works with windows, crap the camera can't use it anymore.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: This has been going on with Win10 for a couple years, Win8 too if I recall

        "so yay it works with windows, crap the camera can't use it anymore."

        Dear Microsoft, your software means this no longer works with my camera, and you chose not to warn me. Cheque please.

      2. jelabarre59 Silver badge

        Re: This has been going on with Win10 for a couple years, Win8 too if I recall

        This is all well and good , BUT most cameras in fact I will say I have yet to see a camera that supports NTFS on a media card, so yay it works with windows, crap the camera can't use it anymore.

        Cameras, tablets and media players should have just moved to EXT4 (or something similar) years ago. Adding native support to MSWin would be a simple matter of installing an IFS driver just *once*, and it would be usable regardless of the portable device it came from. Make a user-space application for those systems where you don't have the rights to install drivers. Again, just one portable r/w application would handle any device's memory card. So blatantly obvious there must be some bribery preventing it from happening.

  4. RudderLessIT

    Silly Question

    Why would someone want to synchronise their SD card to a cloud provider?

    I get why they would want to upload from an SD to another location. And having files available offline is an equally obvious need.

    But why would you want to combine the two? What am I missing?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Silly Question

      Cause people are buying "cloudbook" laptops these days with almost zero drive space. It's tempting to be able to keep your documents and pics sync'ed to a 128GB SD card, when all your laptop gives you is 16GB or 32GB, most of which is taken up by Windows.

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Linux

        Re: Silly Question

        "when all your laptop gives you is 16GB or 32GB, most of which is taken up by Windows."

        last I checked, Raspbian fit in 4G

        Just sayin'

        /me can do a tarball backup to a google drive on Linux. works for me! Use TXZ!!! (it rhymed!)

    2. Adelio

      Re: Silly Question

      Why are you using onedrive at all. Why are you trusting Micro$oft with your data. One day you will get a message saying that you have not clicked on enough advents and they are deleting all your one drive data!.

      I have hundreds of gig of photos and the same with music. I back up to a local NAS drive. Much safer. Less likley that Microsoft will shaft it!

      For me a cloud backup would be the LAST thing i would use.i.e. the least trustworthy.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Silly Question

        that's maybe unfair - I'll give MS a chance to keep one of the copies of data. Of course, Judge Preska has to sign an unlimited personal liability guarantee for it's privacy / security first.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Silly Question

        "Why are you using onedrive at all. Why are you trusting Micro$oft with your data. One day you will get a message saying that you have not clicked on enough advents and they are deleting all your one drive data!"

        Yeah - No. My company pays for some OneDrive storage, and also some DropBox. There's no "clicking on adverts". I've never heard of MS even employing such a system anyway. Apparently, using cloud services such as OneDrive and DropBox to sync data to agents in the field is important to my company. Imagine that.

        However, I agree with your basic premise - I do nightly backups of the data in my care to disk. I don't trust any cloud provider that much.

  5. The curmudgeonly one

    Industry Std

    So NTFS is the industry standard.

    Colour me incredulous.

  6. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Paris Hilton

    Wut?

    the industry standard of support for NTFS

    That's a new one. I thought it was FAT?

  7. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    YAFGMFM

    Yet Another Foot Gun Moment For Microsoft.

    Will they ever learn?

    I hope not as their antics provide endless enjoyment for the likes of those who comment here, MS FanBois excluded.

    Didn't the Final FAT patents just expire? Perhaps that is a reason? I seem to remember reading that 2017 was the expiry time for those Patents.

    If that is true then they don't their their tithes/usury/royalties from the SD Card makers and kit that uses SD cards, they are turning their attention to NTFS where the patent bandwagon still applies.

  8. Bob Vistakin
    Facepalm

    Move everything over to the microsoft cloud

    It'll be fine they said. I'll never have to worry about losing data again, they said. So I drank the kool aid and ... you're not using our file system, so fuck off, they said.

  9. Ken Hagan Gold badge

    "even Redmond creations like the Resilient File System (ReFS) are blocked"

    So yet another case of their right hand not knowing what their left hand is doing.

    MS have looked for many years like they no longer have functioning management. Individual projects may roll out OK, but the bigger picture is lost. Two different control panels ever since Win8? Check. But that was 5 years ago, so surely it has been resolved by now. Oh dear. Patchy support even amongst the built-in utilities (like the aforementioned control panel) for hi-dpi displays ever since Vista. Check. But that was 10 years ago, so surely it has been resolved by now. Oh dear.

    So if the entire senior management team falls over in the forest, does anyone actually notice?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      if the entire senior management team falls over in the forest...

      ...you could sell the co-ords for this happy event on eBay:

      Customers who bid on this item also bid on "Sturdy garden spade" and "Quicklime, jumbo bag"

      1. Kevin Johnston

        Re: if the entire senior management team falls over in the forest...

        I would have thought the answer was obvious from the huge cheer bursting forth from said forest as the team bites the loam. People near the scene may spot a glimpse of the BOFH and PFY strolling away pints in hand smiling at a job well done.

    2. ecofeco Silver badge

      MS have looked for many years like they no longer have functioning management.

      Because they haven't. Some folks I know who USED to work there confirm that the departments are as silo-ed as they come.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Because they haven't. Some folks I know who USED to work there confirm that the departments are as silo-ed as they come.

        More so than IBM?? I seriously doubt that's even possible.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Uninstall OneDrive

    As part of setting up Windows 10 (set to local account, delete adware & trash, turn on privacy etc) on customers PCs I also uninstall OneDrive. Much better to backup to memory sticks, DropBox or Google, or just email to yourself).

    1. Mage Silver badge

      Re: Uninstall OneDrive

      Or your own hosting / server / whatever.

    2. Geoff Campbell
      WTF?

      Re: Uninstall OneDrive

      Is that what the customers ask you to do? Or do you impose a crippled system on them because you hate them?

      It's no wonder some people hate the IT industry.

      GJC

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Uninstall OneDrive

        If it's for corporate, they probably do want that.

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