back to article Lloyds finally inks mega 10-year cloudy outsourcing deal with IBM

Lloyds Bank has today inked a mega 10-year cloudy outsourcing deal with IBM, with 1,500 staff and contractors to be shipped over to Big Blue - according to internal memo seen by The Register. The bank has been negotiating with IBM to outsource the management of its bit barns to IBM for many months, as we exclusively revealed …

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Hmmm

Are they close enough to each other to mean travel will be under £75?

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Re: Hmmm

Maybe they can cram enough people into a helicopter to make it less than £75 per person.

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Re: Hmmm

Is that the same IBM with which RBS cheerfully splaffed £1.2 billion before failing to separate it's England and Wales branches?

Thankfully the tax payer isn't on the hook for this one... yet

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Re: Hmmm

Bit behind the times wolfetone :) travel needs to be under £0.

So suspect in the first instance transferred staff will remain at their normal place of work.

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Boffin

Re: Hmmm

That sort of client travel is permitted and isn't normally an expense.

That's where the work is being performed. Its the non-billable expense that has been hit.

The issue though is that these guys and gals will do the heavy lifting and train their replacements where they will then fade away to find a new job.

Lloyds just made their systems worse and they don't even care because the bean counters can show the savings to the bottom line as long as things go smoothly.

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Anonymous Coward

Exit strategy

All Lloyds staff should prepare to leave by the nearest exit immediately.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Exit strategy

In preparation for your first IBM meeting once you've officially transitioned:

"90% of your roles will be off-shored in the first two years - we want you to help moves these roles off-shore via knowledge transfer and we will help you to move to another exciting part of our business. The regular resource actions you hear about are just because we are a large company, and won't affect you."

If you are a permanent staff member, get out while you only hate Lloyds and IBM and can move to another role before IBM sucks out your will to live. Take redundancy if it is offered but expect to get the statutory minimum once you're on IBM's payroll. Ignore any promises they make about protecting T&C's unless there are enough of you to fight a proper employment case against them..

Contractors - take the risk of staying, but when they discover they don't need you, your contract will be rolled over in the last week before it finishes until you are arbitrarily terminated. Christmas is always a good time to make sure IBM's quarterly numbers stack up...

The rest of Lloyds? Hopefully accountants will deliver any necessary innovation in your company, because your new IT out-sourcer doesn't have any IT staff that can actually help your business.

The good news is that you if you don't sign the TUPE agreement, you can walk out without a statutory notice period and the gut wrenching realisation of what working for IBM GTS is actually like....

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Re: Exit strategy

Upvoted with sadness...

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10 year deal

That's 4 years of transition, 2 years of legal discussions and 4 years of bringing back in house.

The time will fly by

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Re: 10 year deal

"The time will fly by"

Depends upon whether they get to use Ginnie's helicopter I suppose.

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Re: 10 year deal

Will IBM survive another 10 years? They don't have that much left to sell off.

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Re: 10 year deal

4 years of bringing back in house

Sadly, if they're stupid enough to believe the promises of an outsource salesman, then when they find they're getting rubbish service from IBM, they'll believe the siren voices of other outsourcers, and they won't bring it back in house, they'll move to Wipro. TCS, HPE or similar, and wonder why the same thing happens.

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Re: 10 year deal

This would seem a better outsourcing model than they already had in place, the gate is open and the horse in now in beef burgers somewhere

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Coffee/keyboard

SNORK !

"It said controls and mitigation plans have been established to offset the risks of outsourcing everything to IBM's private cloud"

SNORK !

http://dilbert.com/search_results?terms=Snork

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Anonymous Coward

if i were a customer, i'd run... now.. very quickly ...

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"if i were a customer, i'd run... now.. very quickly ..."

I was, I did...ages ago.

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Run where? I was involved in another transition to IBM for another bank last year. It was . . . interesting . . . .

Which bank is it that hasn't outsourced their core competency ?

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Halifax

I believe I am a customer, I will first write a direct email to ask if this is the case, when they ignore it. I will close my account.

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Pint

We can look forward to the escuse

When the service goes TITSUP (Reg definition) we can look forward to the CIO of the day stating that it has nothing to do with outsourced services and they are looking at how to mitigate the fact that they have just wiped out ten squillion current and savings accounts in a botched disk replacement operation.

Beer because lots of it will be needed when the time comes.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: We can look forward to the escuse

It'll undoubtedly occur immediately preceding some vague wording about "power supplies" and accidents..

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Anonymous Coward

Contractors begone

Having worked there for 8 years as a contractor I was surprised at how many contractors are there, of the 1500 staff being moved across 2/3rds are contractors, that was never a good model, that said there are some really good people there and it's a shame that some friends are going to have to move away from the bank after many years of service

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Re: Contractors begone

Thats not unusual when restructuring is planned. Permanent hires are forbidden and contractors used to fill the gaps. The bank I was working for last year only had 7/10 permanent staff across the whole organisation - not just in IT.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Contractors begone

I was there for 8 years as a contractor, I know of others who have been there for over 10 years now

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Uh Huh

It said controls and mitigation plans have been established to offset the risks of outsourcing everything to IBM's private cloud.

Brave, brave words.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Uh Huh

"It said controls and mitigation plans have been established to offset the risks of outsourcing everything to IBM's private cloud."

Translation:

We have a few easy wins that will guarantee that we get our year 1/2 bonuses and that IBM can show there cloud business is growing. Everyone wins! After 2 years, we're off to outsource another company and leave the actual work to someone brave or stupid enough to continue.

As for the IBM private cloud, Lloyds will be pleased to get rid of their expensive legacy DC's and instead use IBM's expensive legacy DC's, only without the ability to control costs or their direction. IBM have ensured that the contract adequately protects them against customer outages.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Uh Huh

Yup. 'Private Cloud' being 'Z Cloud' - being the 1960s Bureau Computing model. All owned, run, and operated by Big Blue, but this time around deploying the cheapest available global labour as their service minions.

What could possibly go wrong?

Ahh, the journey to the cloud. They'll be talking about virtualistaion, software defined, SAN etc on the mainframe next.....ohhh, wait a minute.

This is progress? ;-)

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Anonymous Coward

"Upto date technology on Demand" .... and they went to IBM

I know one large UK retailer who went to IBM for their web presence and were stuck with WebSphere as IBM would not entertain any thing else. All the web bods hated it, some left and it promptly failed for 2 x black friday's.

as the outsourcing wont take 4 years to move to India - give it a less than a year (unless it is written into their contracts) and they will have their jobs moved.

contractors - doubt they will be there in 6 months

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WAS - yes - remember that from last year. Wasn't that stable. IBM couldn't configure it correctly, particularly the load balancing. Nightmares. How you manage to set your load balancing up to route traffic to nodes that have had their services stopped . . . .

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Anonymous Coward

Re:Load balancing

"How you manage to set your load balancing up to route traffic to nodes that have had their services stopped . . . ."

That's easy! Oh, you didn't want that? It wasn't covered in the knowledge transfer...

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Facepalm

See icon.

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Anonymous Coward

Pensions

In the unlikely event they hang around, damn right they should fear for their pension. All they need to do is google "Project Waltz" to see the kind of crap IBM has pulled already.

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Saw this coming and got out in February. Got a lot of friends there still and none of them are enthused by this ... unsurprisingly.

Hard to see it being anything other than a balls up.

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Anonymous Coward

Upvote the fellow Escapee.

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Bronze badge

So, help me with the history here,... I'm an ex-IBMer and I worked on LTSB systems when they previously had a contract with IBM. I only worked on Wintel platforms, so did IBM manage any other LTSB platforms? Have staff been TUPEd back and forth already?

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GruntyMcPugh - yes. HBOS outsourced to IBM many years ago (about 15 I think) and the staff were brought back in-house again (possibly after it became LTSB). Some of those staff are still there, so they'll have been employed by a few different companies (BOS, HBOS, IBM, LTSB, Lloyds) while still doing the same job.

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Transferred over?

Carry on going right to India because that's where 90% of the Lloyds jobs will be this time next year.

I would not advise any young person to go into IT these days. There is no future unless you can speak Hindi and your family comes from S. Asia. Then you would fit right in and become a manager in no time at all.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Transferred over?

I wouldn't advise Indians to go into IT either. They are treated like dirt and the wages are shit, even for India, and anyone who is any good tries to emigrate to a Western country, where they generally find they are still treated like dirt, only slightly less so.

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Stop

So RBS' contractors are being moved to IBM, which has a policy of ending contracts in place

So basically, nearly everyone who is caught up in this outsourcing and is not an RBS employee should be looking for new work.

Plus the current RBS employees should probably also be looking for new work because once they are moved over to IBM they will find your average developed-world IBM employee has the career prospects of a mayfly.

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Holmes

Re: So RBS' contractors are being moved to IBM, which has a policy of ending contracts in place

Either you're mixing up Lloyds Bank of Scotland with RBS, or you've insider knowledge about another outsourcing deal being worked

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Another one bits the dust

So Lloyds wants to go under shortly after Big Moron croaks.

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nobody got ever fired for buying IBM?

So last time we discussed IBM and big blue helicopters, several people wondered who in their right mind would still hire IBM given all the cost-cutting and penny-pinching at the expense of customer service.

Well, I suppose we have our answer now.

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Re: nobody got ever fired for buying IBM?

My experience from last year. The bank board (PHBs?) had signed the contract without asking IT if everything they needed was in there. Looked like a good deal :-)

Then they told IT and said get on with it. And IT said, well who is supporting the other apps? Who is doing the batch operations? Who is doing monitoring and alerting? Who is doing 24x7 DC ops? There were a few more.

By the time all the CCNs had been raised for the stuff that should have been in the contract in the first place it was no longer such a great deal. Sigh! :-(

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This post has been deleted by its author

Anonymous Coward

I can tell you that no-one is doing the monitoring

My old job was moved to IBM and shifted to India

During the summer last year a DC was having issue - A local IT manager went into the DC and it was hot, he reported that and the "unhelpful desk" wanted to raise it as a P5 !

At this time the 3PAR SAN started to fail (yes, IBM had stopped the maintenance contract) and it basically cooked its own disks and failed and so all the VM's were going down - fast

Part of the investigation found that the netbots were indeed reporting the issue to the relevant mail account, but that was no longer being monitored by the IBM staff (these were not from those tuped over as we had all left bar a few managers) The netbot had reported temperatures of over 100c - and that is their limit.

They lost a lot of VM's as they then found out that the backups had not worked since the December ! when the contractor doing the job left - he had handed over, but no-one in IBM knew CommVault.

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Anonymous Coward

I wish this was the only example

While at IBM I was drafted to an account in trouble because the client was going to sue and terminate the contract. I found there were no backups available because they had been sent offshore. It was a known issue that had been outstanding for 18 months. After escalation failed and as I was in the process of consciously uncoupling from IBM I threatened to tell the customer if it wasn't fixed.

IBM seems to think the only time to fix a problem is when shouted at or facing legal action which I saw on several accounts. it all makes for a very tense organisation where people don't even trust each other internally. How can a customer trust them?

My advice is don't leave more than the FSCS limit (£85000) in Lloyds and keep your own paper records. If you really object tell Lloyds why you are moving your account to a competitor.

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Anonymous Coward

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/811154.stm

I

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Anonymous Coward

This is fantastic, it's the same wording, the same number of staff, "It's not about cost savings" :) I forwarded it to my manager and he genuinely thought it was about yesterday's announcement.

And that was the most expensive disaster in the history of the company

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Sympathy to the staff affected

"As a result, around 500 staff will transfer to IBM on 1 September 2017."

Poor buggers.

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Anonymous Coward

Choosing IBM as an outsourcer and IT hosting company...

You must be out of your fucking minds!

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Welcome aboard

From all of us happy GTS souls.

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