back to article UK PM May's response to London terror attack: Time to 'regulate' internet companies

British prime minister Theresa May's statement in response to the terror attacks that saw seven people murdered in London on Saturday night has again called for internet companies to make life harder for those who would discuss hateful and violent ideologies. May's statement calls for four changes in the way the UK combats …

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  1. jake Silver badge

    Book stores.

    We should ban book stores.

    Clearly people who hang out at book stores know how to read. And book stores sometimes contain subversive material (Mein Kampf, The Little Red Book, Playboy. and the like). WE MUST NOT LET ACTUAL READERS READ INDISCRIMINATELY!!!!11one!!!!11!!1!!!eleven!!1one Next thing you know, they'll be actually TALKING about such matters!

    Does the idiot woman realize how bloody stupid she sounds?

    1. Captain DaFt

      Re: Book stores.

      "Does the idiot woman realize how bloody stupid she sounds?"

      Not a chance. In her mind the Internet is more scary and foreign than any terrorist, so it must be the cause of the problem!

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Book stores.

      "Does the idiot woman realize how bloody stupid she sounds?"

      Sigh.

      If the idiot *voter* realized how bloody stupid it sounds, then she wouldn't say it

      Remember that it's the same woman who decided to lead Brexit after campaigning for Remain for 2 years.

      She only does what the majority wants to see

      1. VinceH Silver badge

        Re: Book stores.

        "Remember that it's the same woman who decided to lead Brexit after campaigning for Remain for 2 years."

        I've always been a bit sceptical about that - I expected her to come out in favour of Leave.

        And looking at now, with the way she's been going about it as PM, I still find it surprising that she came down on the side of Remain.

        The sums. They don't add up.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Book stores.

          "The sums. They don't add up." (c) Diane Abbott

          More seriously, this is yet more shameless opportunism, which both main parties have done over the years. Mandarins want more control over Internet, talk minister into it, something happens, minister grabs opportunity. Then the part that doesn't get publicised: did it work, if so provide some level of evidence, and if not, provide both ministers and the mandarins loads of free personal publicity and P45s.

        2. Version 1.0 Silver badge

          Re: Book stores.

          The sums. They don't add up.

          The sums never add up with politicians because their numbers are all based on getting reelected and staying in power. How can you tell if a politician is lying ... their lips are moving.

          1. Dave Schofield

            Re: Book stores.

            >The sums never add up with politicians because their numbers are all based on getting reelected and staying in power. How can you tell if a politician is lying ... their lips are moving.

            Now, they also appear to lie if posting on Twitter as well. We can no longer rely on the lips moving to predict non-truth.

            1. frank ly Silver badge

              Re: Book stores.

              I tried reading Mein Kampf. (Some time ago, when I read that there were steps being taken to ban it, I decided I should read it while I could still easily find it on the internet.)

              I didn't get far. It was the most boring and mind numbing experience that I can remember. The only people who would want to read it (apart from academics, etc) would be people who want their existing views confirmed by an 'expert'.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Book stores.

                From what I've read, the Hitler Biography by Yoakim Fest, most people never read it at the time. In fact, most people never bought it as it was gifted to them by the state.

        3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Book stores.

          "I still find it surprising that she came down on the side of Remain."

          Not surprising at all. Remain was expected to win and she wanted to keep her job. It wasn't so much coming down on the side of Remain. How much effective campaigning did she actually do?

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Book stores.

        "campaigning for Remain for 2 years."

        AFAICS she only paid the minimum lip service to the campaign consistent with keeping her job after the anticipated Remain victory.

    4. MacroRodent Silver badge

      Re: Book stores.

      > And book stores sometimes contain subversive material (Mein Kampf, The Little Red Book, Playboy. and the like).

      Where I live (Finland) there actually are laws against hate speech. So no Mein Kampf or other Nazi propaganda at bookstores.

      1. AMBxx Silver badge

        Re: Book stores.

        Book stores are limited to an extent to what they can sell. Like it or not, there is a level of censorship.

        The difficult bit is having a sensible discussion about what to do about the Internet. The Government doesn't get it, but nor do the people who believe that anything should be allowed.

        1. LDS Silver badge

          Re: Book stores.

          And many publishers refuse stupid books that are just violent propaganda. You don't earn money publishing and distributing them, so you don't - even if you don't have an ethic.

          Mein Kampf has been for a long time forbidden in Germany - because one thing is to read it for historical or psychological reasons, another to believe in it - and its blood trail is too huge to ignore it.

          Sure, you can still find terrorism propaganda books in some "underground" channels, but you have to be already involved, and their diffusion is quite limited. Not that they didn't caused their share of victims - just look at political terrorism in Europe in the 1970s-80s - and their attempts to look for more people in factories, schools and universities. I lived those years, and saw how some people could be influenced by violent propaganda.

          Instead Google & C. can monetize even small, very dangerous contents, publishing them worldwide. Propaganda works, and can be very dangerous. People like to remember "1984" - but also, remember "Animal Farm" - and remember it was forbidden in those paradise that was the communist block....

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Book stores.

            Problem: if you make it illegal to distribute this material, you drive the distribution underground.

            Maybe the government should tax it instead?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Book stores.

              "Problem: if you make it illegal to distribute this material, you drive the distribution underground"

              Fuck that, the Metro already has the monopoly on underground propaganda. I just barely tolerate it. I won't read fundamentalist rantings on my commute. I'll top myself.

          2. kryptonaut
            Big Brother

            Re: Book stores.

            "People like to remember "1984" - but also, remember "Animal Farm" - and remember it was forbidden in those paradise that was the communist block...."

            And speaking of 1984, this gif is worth at least 1000 words:

            https://media.giphy.com/media/3oKIP7cccWiJOq6DRu/giphy.gif

        2. mwnci

          Re: Book stores.

          Whilst this is certainly true, any nefarious sort will just use other systems or open source stuff, the net result will be nefarious types will continue to use under the radar tech and carry-on using technology and encryption - The rest of us, Citizens, will have our own security compromised, as the Government wants a "Skeleton Key" to everything we do, from Banking, social media, to internet searches, to looking at porn or anything else. So the net result is we don't get safer, but we all suffer more predictive data analytics based on all the data being hoovered up on us (just like Facebook or Google but with a Government spin). We won't need YouGov or ComRes you will know what people will vote for in polls, the analytics will tell you to 98% accuracy.

      2. Adam 52 Silver badge

        Re: Book stores.

        "Where I live (Finland) there actually are laws against hate speech. So no Mein Kampf or other Nazi propaganda at bookstores."

        In the UK too, but they are generally restricted​ to public places and terrorism related. Enforcement is patchy to say the least.

        Many of Theresa May's speeches could be considered hate speech, like many politicians she targets a minority and rallies the majority against them. In Mein Campf it was the Jews and Communists, for TM it's immigrants and technology companies.

        1. Danny 14 Silver badge

          Re: Book stores.

          I heard terrorists have used mobile phones too. Best ban those. I reckon they shopped in tescos, asda, morrisons and sainsburys. Passport control and bag search at the entrance just in case.

          1. Adrian 4 Silver badge

            Re: Book stores.

            And white vans. Ban all white vans.

            1. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge

              Re: Book stores.

              And white vans. Ban all white vans.

              Seems a bit extreme when fitting 5mph speed limiters will help keep us much safer.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Book stores.

            and I'm under the impression they also wear underpants...

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Book stores.

          Don't forget benefits claimants and the disabled.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Book stores.

          "like many politicians she targets a minority and rallies the majority against them."

          This. We don't have any prospective leaders amongst the current lot that I can see.

          Each of them identifies a section of society and tries to rally the rest of us against them by stoking fear, envy or both. Rich v poor, young v old, Scots v English, working v unemployed, indigenous v immigrants, leave v remain, religion. All of them are using divide and conquer tactics to try and stand on some section of society to lever themselves up into power.

          A true leader would be able to stand up and speak to everyone without demonising some part of society to do it. To win by a majority, rather than simply being the largest minority as seems to be the aspiration at the moment, a leader would be able to say things in a way that makes the minorities feel like they were being heard, considered and respected, and the majorities that while they feel entitled and right, might also like to consider the opinions of people on the other side of the argument, who incidentally are not tory scum, left wing whingers, feckless single mothers, idle unemployed etc, they are just people with a different opinion. They all preach black and white binary arguments, and life is not like that.

          You think Corbyn is an honest politician? Ah, so you are therefore an idiot who supports total communism, want free stuff for everyone then!

          You support some of tory policy? So you are therefore an idiot and a miserable git who takes food from the mouths of babies, kick crutches from the disabled and enjoy anumal cruelty!

          The problem with this childish binary view is that if your politics are centre ground and you can see some good in all (or most) camps, then you are not going to indicate support for anything or anyone because whatever you said is going to be reduced until it fits into one of the pigeon holes, at which point you become tory scum or a left wing idiot depending on who you were speaking to and which pigeon hole they managed to insert you (not your opinion) in. So both sides of any argument have a perfect echo chamber to reinforce their views in.

          Show me a leader who is not jumping from bandwagon to bandwagon and can stand in front of us all and say stuff that includes everyone without putting down some section of society in the process, and I'll vote for them. United we stand!

          Sorry, rant over, but I got a load of election shite through the door this morning and then I read this. It has given me indigestion. Beers all round before that gets banned!

          1. Rich 11 Silver badge

            Re: Book stores.

            A true leader would be able to stand up and speak to everyone without demonising some part of society to do it.

            And then be castigated by the Daily Mail as some sort of politically-correct weakling...

            1. Triggerfish

              Re: Book stores.

              But some people like demonising.

              There's more than a few people who think first strike on NK or glassing parts of the Arabian desert would solve problems.

              Maybe we should wonder why this lot seem to have a decent voting block in the UK?

              Banning the Daily Heil as hate speech would be tempting.

            2. This post has been deleted by its author

          2. Imsimil Berati-Lahn

            Re: Book stores. Divide and rule

            Politicians have been thumbing that old 'divide and rule' playbook since Spartacus. The logical conclusion of its continued application is an entire population of paranoid sociopaths. Pretty much fait accompli, I reckon.

        4. SundogUK

          Re: Book stores.

          "Many of Theresa May's speeches could be considered hate speech, like many politicians she targets a minority and rallies the majority against them. In Mein Campf it was the Jews and Communists, for TM it's immigrants and technology companies."

          And as soon as she is in power she will start rounding them up and executing them.

          Or not.

        5. Captain Hogwash
          Coat

          Re: Mein Campf

          The musical?

          1. g e

            Re: Mein Campf

            Surely that would just be...

            KAMPF!

            1. Triggerfish

              Re: Mein Campf

              All together now, and a one, and a two and a one, two three

              Springtime for Hitler....

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Mein Campf

            Campf town ladies?

          3. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

            Re: Mein Campf

            "The musical?"

            No, that would be "Springtime for Hitler".

            (From "The Producers". BTW, don't bother with the remake, watch Mel Brook's original.)

      3. macjules Silver badge

        Re: Book stores.

        We have laws against hate speech in the UK as well. Unfortunately a lot of the time it is either the Prime Minister or her minions doing the hate speeches.

        1. Paul 164

          Re: Book stores.

          These laws are often useless, because the authorities with the powers to enforce them are scared of looking like they're racist.

          A lot of the issues and lack of acting on previously known hate preachers can be blamed on Political Correctness, not encryption!

      4. Voland's right hand Silver badge

        Re: Book stores.

        So no Mein Kampf or other Nazi propaganda at bookstores.

        Which is a pity - you cannot compare her rants with that and observe the nearly 1:1 plagiarism.

        IMHO, that is wrong too. We should adopt the significantly more enlightened Irish attitude to this. I was on a tour around the Dublin castle a few weeks back and the guide was asked:

        Q: "Why are you preserving all this artifacts from the British rule?"

        A: "We like to TURN the pages of the book of history, not to BURN them".

        There is a lesson to be learned there - we should neither BURN them ourselves, nor support anyone who does so.

      5. Lars Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Book stores.

        While there are laws against hate speech, don't be silly, books are not "verboten" just like that. Try this library link:

        https://haku.helmet.fi/iii/encore/search/C__Shitler,%20mein%20kampf__Orightresult__U?lang=fin

        or why not this:

        https://www.helmet.fi/en-US

        1. MacroRodent Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: Book stores.

          > Try this library link:

          OK, I stand corrected and humiliated. Got to reserve that one via the Helmet system... But common it isn't, the only Finnish copy I have come across was in the bookshelf of an old farmhouse, where it probably was acquired pre-war. Sitting there next to an edition of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", an almost equally infamous book.

          1. Lars Silver badge
            Happy

            Re: Book stores.

            @MacroRodent, as somebody claimed, it's a dull book, I gave up around page 30. Surprisingly popular though in England, second only to Germany according to the Wiki. Something in the air then I hope we don't have to smell again.

            Long ago in Gosport a British customs guy left by accident his "black bible" with us in the yacht. And, of course, we had to check it with great interest. There was a list of forbidden books too and the only title I still remember was "The sexual life of Robinson Crusoe". And yes, I must admit that when I read Robinson Crusoe as a kid that aspect did not enter my mind.

            My respect for the people who decide about books too dangerous for us to read got a dent forever, but I admit there is probably stuff on the internet that should be deleted as long as we don't make too much fuss about it, especially in front of an election. Nuts are nuts regardless of the internet.

      6. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Book stores.

        "Where I live (Finland) there actually are laws against hate speech. So no Mein Kampf or other Nazi propaganda at bookstores."

        If I sided with the Germans during WW2 Id want to hide it too.

    5. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Unhappy

      "Does the idiot woman realize how bloody stupid she sounds?"

      No.

      Funny how over the last decade "The security services have intercepted dozens of threats" yet come election time and a contentious (and confusingly named) new law is going through parliament we have a pair couple within a month.

      BTW that terrorist threat in perspective.

      Since 7/7/05 there have been 36 deaths due to terrorism in the UK.

      That's 4hrs 3 mins of the annual deaths related to smoking in NHS hospitals for 2014.

      That's 7 Days 13 hrs and 40mins of UK read deaths in 2015.

      Or 3 additional deaths a year since 2005.

      And let's not forget who has been in been in power for most of that time and who was the Home Secretary.

      1. My Alter Ego

        Re: "Does the idiot woman realize how bloody stupid she sounds?"

        I asked a colleague whether he worries about driving to work after a fatal accident is reported in the news, when he said there was no way he go near London after the Westminster attack. The discussion ended with me being effectively told that I shouldn't put these things into context.

        I had said that it's pointless to worry about terrorism is you don't worry about all the things that are more likely to kill you, and I don't want to live my life jumping at every shadow.

        1. Version 1.0 Silver badge

          Re: "Does the idiot woman realize how bloody stupid she sounds?"

          Some years ago, in the days before the Internet, I was told that the police had visited the company that I worked for and we were all advised to take a different route to work each day - no problem, if fact I still vary my routes to and from work (it makes life interesting) although I never figured out why driving different routes helped when the end-points never changed.

          Most of the "advice" from the authorities is for public consumption to calm everyone and give the impression that "something" is being done - if seems that the authorities never bother to put themselves in the terrorists shoes and think how to get around the new laws and regulations. It's never very difficult.

          If the end it's society that has to change - hate and discrimination, on all sides, has to be eliminated - it's no good just suppressing it or pretending that it doesn't exist - America proves that doesn't work.

        2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
          Unhappy

          "I don't want to live my life jumping at every shadow."

          Exactly.

          Johnny Blaze is right.

          "You can't live in fear."

          And you should be very suspicious of anyone who (one way or another) wants you to.

      2. Gaz1

        Re: "Does the idiot woman realize how bloody stupid she sounds?"

        That's called cherry picking the data to support your argument.

        Why "since 7/7/05"?

        Why not since 6/7/05?

        Well because the number then jumps from 36 to 82, which doesn't look quite so rosy.

        "And let's not forget who has been in been in power for most of that time and who was the Home Secretary." - Well Labour were in government from 2005-2010, and Theresa May became Home secretary in 2010. And let us remember that, during her tenure as Home Secretary & as PM many terrorist plots have been successfully disrupted by the security services. Far more than have actually been carried out in the UK as a matter of fact. If you're willing to credit her with failures in our security when they happen should you not also credit her with successes too? I don't even support the current government but everyone deserves a fair hearing.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: "Does the idiot woman realize how bloody stupid she sounds?"

          "If you're willing to credit her with failures in our security when they happen should you not also credit her with successes too?"

          The thing that makes the failures so egregious is that they seem inevitably to involve people known to the police or security services or who have been reported by alarmed acquaintances or family.

          But the real problem with her, right from her Home Sec. days, is her concern with the internet and particularly with her obsession of treating everyone who uses it as suspect. This abandoning of the presumption of innocence is a more drastic blow against British values than anything terrorist organisations could manage on their own. It's a major indirect victory for them. And what could she gain by all this? Terrorists are already breaking the law; is providing another law for them to break going to be effective? Those who would be affected by her attacks on the net will be lawful users. This Home Office-sponsored action is something akin to an internet auto-immune disease.

          1. Chris G Silver badge

            Re: "Does the idiot woman realize how bloody stupid she sounds?"

            Online, internet, onljne, cyber, encryption,online, did I mention online?

            People fear what they don't know or understand, often they will attack or try to destroy what they fear, when in reality, they should embrace their fears and come to know and understand them.

            Or we could get rid of Teresa May.

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