back to article Bloke charged under UK terror law for refusing to cough up passwords

British police have charged a man under antiterror laws after he refused to hand over his phone and laptop passwords. Muhammad Rabbani, international director of CAGE, was arrested at Heathrow in November after declining to unlock his devices, claiming they contained confidential testimony describing torture in Afghanistan as …

Anonymous Coward

Ugh

Here we go again...

1. Stop and search him in order to intimidate.

2. If he complies then we'll make life difficult for him while we find something to charge him with. If he refuses then we'll charge him with a different crime anyway.

If only this situation was a one-off...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Ugh

#Deadbeats. Please visit and up vote if you agree.

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Re: Ugh

Sorry I don't follow recommendations or links from anonymous persons, without any background information or justification.

If we all did this, 90% of malware wouldn't be an issue.

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Constable Savage (Not the Nine O'Clock News)

"Sit down, Savage."

"Yes, sir."

"Savage, why do you keep arresting this man?"

"He's a villain, sir."

"A villain..."

"And a jail-bird, sir."

"I know he's a jail-bird, Savage, he's down in the cells now! We're holding him on a charge of ... [reads] 'Possession of curly black hair and thick lips."'

"Well - well, there you are, sir."

"You arrested him, Savage!"

"Thank you, sir."

"Savage, would I be correct in assuming that Mr Kodogo is a coloured gentleman?"

"Well, I can't say I've ever noticed, sir."

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Constable Savage (Not the Nine O'Clock News)

My favorite charge from this sketch was "walking around with an offensive wife"

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Ugh

More like:

1. Stop and search him because he matches a profile - flies regularly to and from terrorist central, and is head of an organisation that is an apologist for, and supports and interacts with known terrorists like "Jihadi John" and Michael Adebolajo.

2. He doesn't cooperate to an illegal extent, and therefore gets charged.

Great. Lock him up until he hands over the passwords.

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aks

Re: Ugh

I assume he wasn't flying to the USA.

It seems he's used to being stopped. Why carry any sensitive data in that case. I'd simple have it heavily encrypted on a microSD card and only open it when I get where I'm going.

This comment doesn't make any assumptions about his motives except that if this is the 20th time he's been questioned, maybe he's trying to make the point that he shouldn't be stopped.

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Re: Ugh

Sorry but I was once nabbed by police for trying to buy a travelcard in Charing Cross station AFTER travelling on the train, Reason: i had a meeting with my father in town and jumped on the train, not wanting him to wait half an hour for me until the next train. I had refused to give my addtess to the train company jobsworth who performed a citizen's arrest on me for 'trying to evade a fare', never mind that I was trying to buy a ticket from the excess fares booth at the time. Coppers were duly called, and threatened to arrest me on terrorism charges if I didn't cooperate and give my address. So I 'cooperated' like a good baby and gave them my address of course. it's easy to pontificate about cooperation with the forces of law and order from your plush armchair somewhere seemingly safe in middle class suburbia, but when this kind of thing happens to you, your love and admiration for the system and 'our boys in blue' or whatever colour they affect might take a bit of a hit.

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Re: Ugh

"Britons never, never, never will be slaves"

LMAO

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Re: Constable Savage (Not the Nine O'Clock News)

Presumably Mr May?

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Re: Ugh

Jihadi John, the man who was harassed by authorities until he broke and turned into what the authorities accused him of being. Yes, TWAT is a twat.

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Thumb Up

Re: Ugh

He doesn't cooperate to an illegal extent, and therefore gets charged.

One of his colleagues (Qureshi) described the murderer Mohammed Emwazi who beheaded innocents as "extremely gentle, kind” and a “beautiful young man", so I'll take his innocence and that of all of them with an extremely large sack of salt.

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Re: Ugh

Jihadi John, the man who was harassed by authorities until he broke and turned into what the authorities accused him of being.

Unlikely, though it is the myth put about by the like of CAGE. What is more likely is that the severe blow to his head[1] damaged his frontal lobe on that side with the consequences that are well known, including psychopathy. Hence the brutal and terrifying deaths of so many innocent civilians in the desert, whose well being you conveniently skate over with your weak argument. Moreover, even without evidence of cranial trauma, it is necessary to ask what his premorbid condition was prior to being recruited, it being highly abnormal that a supposedly 'beautiful' 'gentle' young man would turn into a psychopathic murder, or do you claim that there was absolutely nothing deeply pathological about his behaviour?

To attribute his bestial violence to investigations by the authorities is, to put it kindly, utter piffle. Many untruths have been told about their interventions. The British int & sy services were checking and approaching all individuals showing the same signs of interest in terrorism, because failure to do so in the past led to people's throats being slit, tall buildings falling, buses and tube trains exploding, and British soldiers heads being removed on the streets of their home country.

Your claim represents to me the most odious and truth avoiding of inflammatory political correctness, and it is the sort of loaded disingenuousness that has led to young girls suffering in Rotherham, never mind the vicious deaths of people like Ken Bigley, who sought only to do good, for whom even the murderous Al Qaeda spoke defensively.

As an ex soldier who was treated very badly in this way by civvies from the politically correct wing of society the only apposite thing that I can say is that I hope you never rely on British service personnel to haul your arse from out of the fire. Because I know they will be as reluctant to help you as you have been to admit the truth.

[1] It being a recorded fact, backed up by statements from his age cohort that his personality changed from that moment on.

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Re: Ugh

"Coppers were duly called, and threatened to arrest me on terrorism charges if I didn't cooperate and give my address."

"There are 2 dozen pages of paperwork you have to fill out if you want to go that route and my lawyer will make sure you fill in every single one of them. Do you really want to be tied to a desk for at least the next 3 days?"

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Flame

"used only in extreme terrorism cases"

Bollocks to that. Give me one example where this rule was properly applied - just one.

I know the guy has a terrist beard and I can imagine that he is a lot more suspicious-looking to paranoid racists because, gasp he's not Caucasian, but those elements on their own do not legally constitute proof of terrist intent - yet.

So good on him for standing up for his rights because this circus has been going on for long enough already. I hope that he gets that law struck from the books.

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Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

I know the guy has a terrist beard and I can imagine that he is a lot more suspicious-looking to paranoid racists

CAGE has plenty of form as apologists for active extremists. As an example, CAGE are the outfit that mentored Jihadi John and subsequently described him as a "beautiful young man".

I'd have the bastards shut down.

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Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

"CAGE has plenty of form as apologists for active extremists. As an example, CAGE are the outfit that mentored Jihadi John and subsequently described him as a "beautiful young man"."

See this is the kind of detail lacking from an article that in the face of it shows gross abuse of power. If what you say is true then I'm inclined to agree with you and it serves to remind me I need to be wary of not having the full picture before passing judgment.

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Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/18/cage-admits-mistakes-report-mohammed-emwazi-jihadi-john-isis-chief-executioner

"An external audit commissioned by Cage of its handling of the Emwazi affair is blunt in exposing the shortcomings of campaigners."

"In opting for a “lengthy argument” rather than a “soundbite” Cage was unsuccessful in “clearly articulat[ing] its distance from Emwazi’s actions to prevent any portrayal of them as ‘apologists for terrorism’ ”, the audit states."

"The review added: “These two shortcomings, along with a clear distancing from Emwazi’s actions, and the ‘beautiful young man’ comment allowed the media to easily portray Cage as being on the side of [Isis’s executioner].”"

"In response, Adnan Siddiqui, the director of Cage, said: “This review was difficult to undertake, however it was important to help us learn and develop.

“We are a relatively young organisation with a small team and a huge challenge but we strive for the highest professional standards.

“On this occasion we made mistakes and we recognise this. We will be studying the report carefully and looking to implement the recommendations.

“Despite the mistakes made, we feel our intervention still made an important contribution to the debates around security services’ accountability, and abuses of the rule of law in the war on terror.”"

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Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

"I hate what you say but will defend with my life your right to say it"..

Our grandfather's did lay down their lives,this was one of the things they died for,looks like too many folk today have forgotten what they sacrificesed themselves for...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

"Bollocks to that. Give me one example where this rule was properly applied - just one."

This is one - read more about CAGE before making rash statements.

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Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

> CAGE has plenty of form as apologists for active extremists.

It doesn't matter. This law is overreaching, and we can hope that cases such as this one may put it to test so that we ordinary citizens can know what we risk if we fail to provide the plods with a working password (whatever the reason may be, including genuinely having forgotten it).

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

Pat Finucane and Rosemary Nelson also meet a lot of those criteria.

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WTF?

Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

"Our grandfather's did lay down their lives, this was one of the things they died for, looks like too many folk today have forgotten what they sacrificesed themselves for..."

One should not assume, that we all came up with the same reason why so many people laid down their lives ---- for a start I think that they had swallowed a whole heap of democraticmonopolisticbullshite which they had read about in the "free" Press AND they were also Terrorised into taking up arms by their own, so called - "betters", people who offered to bull whip them at the very least or execute them by firing squad - if they didn't pick up arms and charge over the top ...........

What utter utter bolloxs some folks have swallowed. We see the side you picked ...........

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"if they didn't pick up arms and charge over the top"

I think you have the wrong war. Unless you're north of 50 it's more likely that your grandfather fought in World War II, not World War I.

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Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

used only in extreme terrorism cases

It might well be, no way of knowing. Problem is schedule 7 isn't for this. There's nothing stopping them taking a screwdriver to the devices to make sure there's no explosives in them - THAT is what schedule 7 is for. If his legal reps don't get him off fairly sure he needs better legal reps.

Re CAGE more generally, I've heard these guys - they are terrorist apologists - but that shouldn't be what this is about.

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Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

Sounds like a very interesting review. What I get from your short summary of it is that CAGE messed up by underestimating the rabid, moronic fury the UK media can unleash when their stultifying, 6-brain-cell cartoon soundbites and "narratives" are questioned.

I'm blaming the UK media, but this habit extends far beyond that (ermm, "area"? "industry"? "bubbling botulism-infested sump of warmed-up excrement?") to the PR-management of the TWAT (The War On Terror) worldwide.

Terr'sm is just EVUHL, geddit? Don't ask any questions or try to think about how it came about, otherwise you're On The Terr'sts Side Innit?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

Rotherham is an instance of policing in a town. The other is an instance of policing in an international airport. Both are very different environments Both are incidents, at best, of Police stupidity.

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Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

To: Al fazed

You Sir, are full of shite!

If you had been around in Germany in the 1930's, you might have a different perspective. Nazism was about eugenics and the extermination of all bar "the Master Race" (which included Germans, Scandanvians, Scots, English, Irish and Dutch) - EVERYONE else was included in "the Final Solution" so became candidates for the gas chamber/firing squad.

Maybe you should read a history book or two, before coming out with comments that are nothing short of insulting to the memory of the people who secured the continuation of freedoms; freedoms that include the opportunity for you to write your misinformed drivel here. I doubt if Londoners (or any other major UK city) stopped to consider "a whole heap of democraticmonopolisticbullshite" when German bombs were dropping on them.

And as someone said, your comment "if they didn't pick up arms and charge over the top" would have been the First World War, not the Second. That would make it your Great Grandfathers. This shows your ignorance to a conflict which cost the lives of 50 million people.

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Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

Completely untrue and twisted; one of CAGE's members said that Emwazi WAS a "beautiful young man" when they were dealing with his case many years ago. If you have trouble understanding past tense sentences, I can recommend some primary schools for you to attend.

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Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

"Terr'sm is just EVUHL" ..

It is, no matter how it came about; or do you think otherwise?

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Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

@ Patrician

"Terr'sm is just EVUHL"

"It is, no matter how it came about; or do you think otherwise?"

Terrorism seems to be a matter of perspective. After all; "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

While I might agree with you in spirit, I need to mention that famous Monty Python scene ref. your claim about "extermination of all bar "the Master Race" (which included Germans, Scandanvians, Scots, English, Irish and Dutch) - EVERYONE else was included in "the Final Solution".

I would like to point out that you failed to mention the Finns, (some) Chechs, and quite a lot of other European nations, who might have enjoyed the master race status if the III Reich had its way in the end. Also, surprisingly, a huge majority of Poles (minus the intelligentsia, to decapitate potential resistance) were not destined to the gas chambers, or other forms of extermination, "merely" to server as semi-intelligent labour in the east. Sort of modern Roman Empire style with its outposts, masters, slaves and savage tribes with 20th century extras on top.

And I don't mention the issue in the "what good did the German Master Race" bring to us"? spirt, but to veto "EVERYONE else" bit, because I find this SCREAMED generalization quite misleading. So, to quote your own words again, "Maybe you should read a history book or two".

p.s. I'm "one of those" (Nazis), and the proof is in my Bayern ancestry

p.p.s. I might carry some merit though, and the proof is my upbringing, a few miles nw of Kiev.

(not a swipe, just food for thought)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

so i take it you've never been to london and witness countless case of people being publically stopped, searched, humiliated for the crime of walking or driving while being black then .. if they try ask why or you do as an onlooker you are threatened with arrest for obstruction justice and violent restraint if you continue to object. don't be such a smu white tosser - i look forward to the state spying on you, stealing all your info and creating a story that makes you look criminal and seditous and jailing you after a stitch up trial .. numpty ..

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Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

" "Terr'sm is just EVUHL" ..

It is, no matter how it came about; or do you think otherwise?"

The French Resistance were terrorists by today's definition. I wouldn't consider them evil. There is little black and white certainty in the world. Unless you are dull, unimaginative or thick (or any combination thereof).

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Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

"I know the guy has a terrist beard and I can imagine that he is a lot more suspicious-looking to paranoid racists because"

If terrorism is being commited by one particular group who often have one particular look then people who look that way will be looked on more suspiciously than the rest of the population. That might upset a lot of fluffy SJWs but thats the reality of things. Calling it paranoid racism is the usual handwaving dismissive putdown from the liberal left which solves nothing and just polarises people even more: "Call me a racist for having an opinion you don't like? Well f**k you then, I'll vote UKIP!" etc.

"this circus has been going on for long enough already. I hope that he gets that law struck from the books."

Yeah, good luck with that:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39949726

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "if they didn't pick up arms and charge over the top"

Im pushing 60. Both of my grandfathers were born in 1901. It was a good year. Too young to fight in the first world war and too old for the second.

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Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

The problem with your post is that there is plenty of terrorism around, but a lot of it is effectively ignored when it doesn't fit into the whole "clash of civilizations" agenda. There's quite a long list of far-right white terrorists in recent history who have done terrible things, but somehow they are always excused as "one-offs", "loners", "mentally-ill". A description which would fit many of the perpetrators of recent outrages like the one in Westminster a few weeks ago.

Murderer of Jo Cox who shouted "Britian First" - mentally ill middle aged man.

Westminster attacker - Jihadi inspired by ISIS.

They both seem a bit bonkers to me; they've also both imbibed hateful propaganda which has got nothing to do with the way most people think, whether they are white, asian, arab, Christian or Muslim.

One of the big problems with "profiling" is it doesn't work, as shown hilariously by Chris Morris' film "Four Lions". While the police continuously harrassed a innocent and devout Muslim with a long beard, they ignored his cousin who was drinking, taking drugs, planning a terrorist outrage, etc. Like all the best satire, it was uncomfortably close to the truth. Profiling means - "I'll filter everything through my prejudices and that will help us catch bad guys more effectively than boring things like looking for evidence of criminal behaviour".

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

ElReg!comments!Pierre

> CAGE has plenty of form as apologists for active extremists.

It doesn't matter. This law is overreaching,

----------------

Hmm there is all sorts of morality surrounding this issue, for example if you have a kidnapper who has a child who is in danger and the police have the suspect in custody how far do you let the police go in order to extract information ?

1 ) As a parent then full medieval torture.

2 ) As a wrongly accused suspect, mild questioning.

A couple of really good films on this, The Offence (1973) with Sean Connery and more recently Prisoners (2013) with Hugh Jackman. Also the very brutal "questioning" by Samuel L. Jackson of Michael Sheen in Unthinkable (2010)

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Re: "if they didn't pick up arms and charge over the top"

"Im pushing 60. Both of my grandfathers were born in 1901."

Likewise. My grandfather (three years older) was a Canadian, about to be shipped over to the RAF, when WWI ended.

And here's a rule of thumb: the more exclamation points in a post, the less likely the poster knows what he or she is talking about.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

Obviously reading and/or understanding history books isn't your strongest point.

Hitler was a separatist - he didn't want to exterminate people of other races (well, except the Jews after the plans for relocating them to Madagascar or Israel failed).

To quote the man himself: "Pride in one's own race - and that does not imply contempt for other races - is also a normal and healthy sentiment. I have never regarded the Chinese or the Japanese as being inferior to ourselves. They belong to ancient civilizations, and I admit freely that their past history is superior to our own. They have the right to be proud of their past, just as we have the right to be proud of the civilization to which we belong. Indeed, I believe the more steadfast the Chinese and the Japanese remain in their pride of race, the easier I shall find it to get on with them."

In addition to his well-known cooperation with the Japanese, there were actually non-white ("brown" Muslims) SS troops, and more.

Anon because, well, apparently people think you want to fire up the gas chambers and ovens if you have actually studied the policies of Hitler, even if you don't agree with them...

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Stop

Re: "if they didn't pick up arms and charge over the top"

I'm 48 and my grandfather fought in WWI (gassed twice), although he did lie about his age to get in (born 1899).

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Joke

Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

"Hitler was a separatist - he didn't want to exterminate people of other races (well, except the Jews after the plans for relocating them to Madagascar or Israel failed)."

"Anon because, well, apparently people think you want to fire up the gas chambers and ovens if you have actually studied the policies of Hitler, even if you don't agree with them..."

You are Ken Livingstone and I claim my £5...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

so you were around in the 1930's then Domquark?

I ask as history is always written by the winners of a war and they do tend to be biased against the loosers. From what I have read Eugenics was just used as just another tool of nationalism, most Germans of the time didn't think to hard about it or kept quiet so as not to stand out and be next on the list. Europe had grabbed great chunks of the world with control over populations 1000s of time their own, of course they believed they were special and better than everyone else and it was not only the Germans. Along comes a nutjob and uses the credibility of science to seemingly support his idea that European whites were more evolved and this was why they got their dominion over the "less" advanced races. Also bare in mind that the general population across Europe were quite parochial and got their world view from patronising news reels with the fuzzy wuzzy's jumping up and down. The Germans were not "evil" they were just doing what their group identity defined as normal and the follow the group identy rather than think for yourself is still in control today

The political, turn your population against the minority to gain unlimited control technique is still very much in use, fatties, smokers, dolites,disabled and extreme islamics are all "evil" and the general public needs to know who they should hate so they do not step out of line or think to deeply about where the real problem lies or why their lives are less free or prosperous than their parents.

I wasn't alive in the 1930's either but I need only look around to see history repeating itself and the same follow the herd idea that allows those in control to do anything they like whilst the ignorant sheep scream their approval.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

@boltar

"If terrorism is being commited by one particular group who often have one particular look then people who look that way will be looked on more suspiciously than the rest of the population"

While it would make me feel safer, I'd still be uncomfortable with the idea that rounding up all the sovereign individuals, white supremacists and militia groups. That is who I presume you mean by the identifiable group who does the majority of terrorism.

Or am I to believe that mass killings and political assassinations by white right wingers are only ever done by mentally ill people, but every attack by a brown fella is due to religious beliefs.

I am notably more in danger of death from terrorism due to a group that believes in right wing/nationalist than from someone motivated by the shitstorm in the middle east. I am several more times likely to be shot by a toddler or a dog than either of these things. But strangely, no-one is trying to disarm those damn toddlers :)

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Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

"CAGE has plenty of form as apologists for active extremists. As an example, CAGE are the outfit that mentored Jihadi John and subsequently described him as a "beautiful young man".

I'd have the bastards shut down."

That may well be an appropriate position. But being an apologist for extremists isn't a crime, and we all have a strong interest, whatever our views, in not being forced to disclose our private material.

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Re: "if they didn't pick up arms and charge over the top"

Too young to legitimately fight in WW1

There was quite a bit of blind eye turning to people who falsified their ages, especially when there were frequently request for volunteers to keep numbers up.

(had a relative who was in the armed forces underage in WW1)

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Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

>Calling it paranoid racism

...is merely factual.

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Re: "used only in extreme terrorism cases"

"The French Resistance were terrorists by today's definition."

And they were called "terrorists" by the Nazis.

Meantime a good chunk of the population there actively supported Nazi points of view, to the point that France actually sent a greater proportion of its jewish population off to be exterminated than Germany did.

Remember also that Germany welcomed jewish refugees with open arms in the 18th and 19th centuries and was a bastion of enlightenment right up until the early 20th century. It only took 20 years to turn that around, which should be a sober reminder to anyone saying "it can't happen here"

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And what surprises you about people over 50?

That we are still alive?

Or that we had grandfathers?

_Young_ person, you are not yet a Jedi.

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