back to article Head of US military kit-testing slams F-35, says it's scarcely fit to fly

Now-retired Dr Michael Gilmore, until recently the Director of Test and Evaluation for the US military, has published his final evaluation of the F-35 program, and it's a treat. In his parting report (PDF), deliciously dated April 1*, Gilmore details a host of issues remaining with the US$391 billion-and-counting project, with …

Doesn't like humidity

"But the limitations of EOTS, including image degradation with humidity, force pilots to fly in closer to a target than they had to when using earlier systems just to get a clear enough picture to launch a missile or take a shot."

Nice! There goes the sales Australia and Singapore

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Coat

Re: Doesn't like humidity

Nope - The goes INCREASED sales to Australia and Singapore, isn't the F35 a Great Product?

Dick Jones: .... I had a guaranteed military sale with ED 209 - renovation program, spare parts for twenty-five years... Who cares if it worked or not?

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WTF?

Re: Doesn't like humidity

+1 to @fajensen for the RoboCop reference.

there are fatigue problems in the tail; the arresting gear on the F-35A variant is good for one landing only; the F-35A and F-35C show excessively high air flow temperatures around the engine; and the horizontal tail overheats in a Mach 1.5 run.

How the hell did this happen? This is WAY past incompetence, it looks like criminal indifference!

How does one design this level of crap into a machine and believe that it will not be detected later on? I'd like to see Reg dig deeper into this. None of this is new, there were articles on the F-35 cockups back in 2011.

There is a correlation that the number of military and politicians on the oversight committee for an aircraft is directly proportional to the time it takes to develop an aircraft. The F-177 had 7 people on the oversight committee and it was finished quickly. The F-22 had 130 and it was a cluster-f*ck.

In 2009 the F-35 oversight committee allegedly had over 300 people.

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Anonymous Coward

They canned the f22 and tried to kill the warthog for this pile of shit.

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They canned the f22 and tried to kill the warthog for this pile of shit.

It's obvious really - they're using lens apertures.

f16 - f22 - and now f35. They need to go the other way. I predict the successful fighter aircraft will be the f1.8.

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Russians made them do it!

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Re: They canned the f22 and tried to kill the warthog for this pile of shit.

"f16 - f22 - and now f35. They need to go the other way. I predict the successful fighter aircraft will be the f1.8."

Bokeh wins wars.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: They canned the f22 and tried to kill the warthog for this pile of shit.

It's obvious really - they're using lens apertures.

f16 - f22 - and now f35. They need to go the other way. I predict the successful fighter aircraft will be the f1.8.

Absolutely. However, it will still be hopeless against Mig 1.44. You really need to bite the bullet, and go directly to f0.9

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Re: They canned the f22 and tried to kill the warthog for this pile of shit.

"You really need to bite the bullet, and go directly to f0.9"

That would be a night fighter (Noctilux...$10500, almost expensive enough to be a piece of actual military equipment.)

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Thumb Up

Re: They canned the f22 and tried to kill the warthog for this pile of shit.

"It's obvious really - they're using lens apertures."

Very good. So good, in fact, that you win not one, but TWO internets!!!

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Anonymous Coward

The largest and most successful Russian covert hacking campaign is continuing as planned, then.

The Motherland thanks you, comrades!

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Re: The largest and most successful Russian covert hacking campaign is continuing as planned, then.

Model C uses licensed Russian technology. So you may be not that far off.

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Re: The largest and most successful Russian covert hacking campaign is continuing as planned, then.

"Model C uses licensed Russian technology".

And I bet that technology works smoothly and reliably.

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Draft Trump speech found on wikileaks

We support jobs. It's about jobs, also. The F35 program has created a huge number of jobs for Americans. I do not care if it cannot land twice. That is not important. First we want to fix our highways. We're going to fix our highways. We fix the pot holes in our highways, the F35 will not have to take off. We are going to spend another $329billion on the flirtyfive, and we are going to make the Mexicans pay for it.

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Oh wonderful

So when our aircraft-less aircraft carriers finally get some aircraft they won't actually be able to fly.

This could end up being a more expensive fiasco than Brexit! Will any Minister be sacked for this?

[On second thoughts, no, that's silly. *nothing* is going to beat Brexit!]

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Re: Oh wonderful

Oh Do fuck off.

The closest this comes to brexit is that we bought some, and that link is very tenuous

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Re: Oh wonderful

You Sure!? Threatening the EU to sending the entire British fleet consisting of HMS-MIssile-Sponge, HMS-Weapon-Less and HMS-Rust-Bucket (and 35000 power-point wielding consultants) to defend Gibraltar from Spain after Brexit seems to add a nice icing on the brownie cake?

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Re: Oh wonderful

We need a 'Farages Law' no matter what the subject is being spoken about someone will always drag it to Brexit.

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Re: Will any Minister be sacked for this?

Of course not. The natural wastage rate in ministers and the time scale of the project ensures that by the time the chickens come home to roost all ministers concerned with the early decisions will be long pensioned off - or at least appointed to comfortable 'consultation' posts with, well, probably F35 and QE Carrier contractors...

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Re: Oh wonderful

I can't find the citation right now, but I'm pretty sure that deploying "35000 power-point wielding consultants" contravenes all existing treaties on rules of engagement.

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Re: Will any Minister be sacked for this?

QE? Do you really mean quantitive easing, or the second big 'bail out the banks by printing loads of money' known as QE2?

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Re: Oh wonderful

"This could end up being a more expensive fiasco than Brexit!"

Brexit will save us billions every year. It has hardly any cost so far....Our economy is growing 2nd fastest in the G20...

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Re: Will any Minister be sacked for this?

I thought he was referring to the aircraft carriers currently under construction.

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Joke

Re: Oh wonderful

windows 10 update for UK

Rename "deleted files container" "BREXIT"

/<icon for the humourless>

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Re: Oh wonderful

"Brexit will save us billions every year. It has hardly any cost so far....Our economy is growing 2nd fastest in the G20..."

You can call off the search. We've identified that guy who jumped off a 20 storey building, muttering "so far so good" as he passed each floor...

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Devil

Re: Oh wonderful

"We need a 'Farages Law' no matter what the subject is being spoken about someone will always drag it to Brexit."

or U.S. president, or any political person/issue in general, or 'popular target of the moment', or ...

As for the F35, at least it seems that the lipstick is being applied to the 'end that goes "oink"'. The "contradictions" of stealth vs vertical take-off vs supersonic operability still haven't been resolved. it's almost as if an "all in one" solution really isn't possible, yet they're doing it _ANYWAY_.

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The Gold Standard for Stupid

It is unfortunate, but Brexit and the election of Trump have become the gold standard for stupid self-inflicted harm.

All you Brexit fans will just have to stand shoulder to shoulder with the Trump fans and live with this.

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Re: Oh wonderful

You can call off the search. We've identified that guy who jumped off a 20 storey building, muttering "so far so good" as he passed each floor...

Not the . A closer one would be someone goes to a casino and bets 5% of what they own on red or black. There is a risk but if you loose, it's not the end of the world...

Everyone said the economy would crash as soon as we voted for Brexit - it hasn't - record highs in the FTSE, outstanding economic growth

All we know right now is we will not be paying the EU billions net each year anymore. We might stand to gain massively from trade deals. We might stand to loose from the EU depending on what is agreed. But we don't know.

What we do know is we are out for sure - once the article is invoked it's not reversible. We also know other countries are queuing up to do trade deals. Hello for instance the 52 nations / 2.3 billion people . 15 trillion GDP of the Commonwealth. Ditto, Canada, the US, India, Australia. Who mostly have forgiven us for forcing "civilisation" on them.

We can look at our status as a global financial centre - and the regulatory advantages that not being in the EU might bring. And the ability to adjust our tax rates for corporates...

We can also look at similar countries that are not in the EU like say Norway and Switzerland.

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Coat

Re: Oh wonderful

...to defend Gibraltar from Spain after Brexit...

Since HMS Victory is still a Commissioned vessel, they could plug up any leaks in the hull and move it to the active list - in preparation for her reprising her leading role in the The Great Siege of Gibraltar in October 1782.

Note: HMS Victory - Unready for sea "You'll never guess the name of the contractor"

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Re: Oh wonderful

That should read "Not the best analogy..."

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Windows

Re: Oh wonderful

"Brexit will save us billions every year. It has hardly any cost so far....Our economy is growing 2nd fastest in the G20..."

1) Our currency has plummeted in value, so a net loss overall.

2) We haven't left the EU yet, so you can't honestly comment on the true cost yet.

3) The likely outcome is that trade overheads will increase because we still have to renegotiate all those agreements from a position of weakness.

The reality of the situation is that Britain is a much weaker trading partner than the EU as a whole, so we are unlikely to get any favours from partners over and above what Europe gets.

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Windows

Re: Oh wonderful

"Everyone said the economy would crash as soon as we voted for Brexit - it hasn't - record highs in the FTSE, outstanding economic growth"

When a currency falls shares become cheaper and more attractive to foreigners. TL;DR: Britons own less of their companies, and what they own is worth less anyway.

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Happy

Re: Oh wonderful

"We can also look at similar countries that are not in the EU like say Norway and Switzerland.".

Not similar at all as they are in the single market, follow their obligations and pay for the privilege. The Norwegians pay more per capita than you in the UK, too lazy to find out about Switzerland.

Be an optimist, but your comment seems to prove you have been listening to Farage & Co and trusted them.

Some due diligence is always worth it when making decisions.

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Re: Oh wonderful

Not the . A closer one would be someone goes to a casino and bets 5% of what they own on red or black. There is a risk but if you loose, it's not the end of the world...

The permanent economic stability of a country is not a 5% no harm no foul bet ffs.

Everyone said the economy would crash as soon as we voted for Brexit - it hasn't - record highs in the FTSE, outstanding economic growth

I'm moving to a country thats pegged with the dollar and I have seen a goodly amount of my savings and wages wiped because of this, now thats individual, but it reflects on the worth of our pound when we want to purchase. Also it may not help export which is what I am always told, because we need to buy raw materials in etc and guess what? They now effectively cost more.

As other posters have said share prices have dropped, and companies are getting bought up and the profits not coming back into the UK either, a weak pound isn't that great.

All we know right now is we will not be paying the EU billions net each year anymore. We might stand to gain massively from trade deals. We might stand to loose from the EU depending on what is agreed. But we don't know.

We might, we might, we might, dunno maybe it's just me but somehow I think maybe knowing what would happen or at least having a pretty damn good idea is the way to make a major descision. Basing it on some jingoistic ideas and hope is not.

What we do know is we are out for sure - once the article is invoked it's not reversible. We also know other countries are queuing up to do trade deals. Hello for instance the 52 nations / 2.3 billion people . 15 trillion GDP of the Commonwealth. Ditto, Canada, the US, India, Australia. Who mostly have forgiven us for forcing "civilisation" on them.

You mean we were not trading with Canada, the US etc before? Gosh we missed a trick there.

Or do you mean now we are out of the EU suddenly the need for British goods is going to rise for some reason, if so can you tell me what? There's only so much jam you can sell.

Do you think for example we would have more clout than the EU, for example if TTIP was happening do you think the Eu could have refused it, do you think Britain on it's own would have been able to?

We can look at our status as a global financial centre - and the regulatory advantages that not being in the EU might bring. And the ability to adjust our tax rates for corporates...

Yeah tax cuts for large corporations work so well for the common man. Suppose we can cut some things though, NHS, roads, education etc. Banking especially unregulated banking has done us all so fine in the past few years.

We can also look at similar countries that are not in the EU like say Norway and Switzerland.

The sheer ignorance of that statement and lack of understanding about the single market membership....

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Re: Oh wonderful

So far TheVogon's comment has attracted 26 downvotes - and no rebuttals. Hmmm.

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Re: Oh wonderful

It looks as if a lot of Remainians are frightfully hacked off that we are leaving the EU. Unable to find any solid arguments against it, and unable to find any facts to support their case, they vent their frustrated feelings by awarding downvotes on The Reg.

Go for it, people! It's a lot less harmful than violence.

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Re: Oh wonderful

"Our currency has plummeted in value, so a net loss overall."

Nope - great for exports - and most FTSE 500 company earnings...And it means the nations debt is lower value, so a net gain...

"We haven't left the EU yet, so you can't honestly comment on the true cost yet."

See above where I make clear what we can comment on.

"The likely outcome is that trade overheads will increase because we still have to renegotiate all those agreements from a position of weakness."

Nope - we have a position of strength - they need us more than we need them. For instance the EU sells more to us than we do them. And all the free trade deals we will do will increase non EU trade.

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Re: Oh wonderful

"When a currency falls shares become cheaper and more attractive to foreigners."

So greater foreign investment then. Another benefit...

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Re: Oh wonderful

I¨m from Norway. We pay the EU oodles of millions every year to get access to their market and have to implement all their regulations. It is like a membership with no voting rights. Just go on dreaming that they will give you what you want on a silver platter.

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Re: Oh wonderful

'greater foreign investment'

Business talk for 'your companies are being bought by foreign interests'

Brexit terror - gain "sovereignty" , lose control of economy

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Windows

Re: Oh wonderful

"So far TheVogon's comment has attracted 26 downvotes - and no rebuttals. Hmmm."

Plenty of rebuttals, just a lack of folks on the Brexit side willing to take part in rational discussion or point out a silver lining that isn't a figment of their good intentions.

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Windows

Re: Oh wonderful

"So greater foreign investment then. Another benefit..."

Greater foreign investment erodes it further because the folks with the gold make the rules. Less sovereignty is what you are getting - perhaps you could write to your local MP about it.

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Re: Oh wonderful

"Nope - we have a position of strength - they need us more than we need them."

Doubtful. The EU loses just one trading partner with a paltry 60m customers, we lose access to the entire common market (which includes the member states plus all the folks paying to play like Norway for example).

"And all the free trade deals we will do will increase non EU trade."

Free trade deals aren't free beer, they cost real money. As a country of 60 million folks there is *less* benefit for the trading partner in negotiating with us simply because we are a smaller market than Europe as a whole. Consequently you *should* expect the cost of trade with those countries to *increase* rather than decrease. Increasing costs tend to hinder trade.

Most of the folks on telly telling us Brexit is great seem to be very rich, have multiple passports, and keep most of their money outside of the UK. In your case I can't work out if you are ignorant, stupid or simply shilling for Brexit to happen for some other nefarious purpose that you dare not share in public.

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Re: Oh wonderful

You Sure!? Threatening the EU to sending the entire British fleet consisting of HMS-MIssile-Sponge, HMS-Weapon-Less and HMS-Rust-Bucket

Don't forget the HMS "hides under the water and can fire missiles at you all day because all you have are fishing trawlers".

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Oh wonderful

I know this doesn't need to be said, but you do know that we won't actually leave the EU until 2019? All the bad effects will largely only be felt then. We are currently experiencing a last hurrah.

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Egghead Gilmore, typical of a boffin to miss the point...

It is perhaps the most successful weapons platform in USAF history! Just look at the stats:

* 32,500 jobs across 46 states!

* 18 states with over $100M spent!

* Underpinning vulnerable congressional districts for over 20 years!

And with that newest test report it looks like remedial development will continue for the foreseeable future, keeping USAF spending well at the forefront into the 21st century. Huzzah!

[figures from This Map Shows Why The F-35 Has Turned Into A Trillion-Dollar Fiasco]

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Re: Egghead Gilmore, typical of a boffin to miss the point...

Thanks for that hyperlink, Mongo.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Egghead Gilmore, typical of a boffin to miss the point...

It sure is a spectacular success, from the perspective of the USA's curious form of crypto-socialism. The American tax-payer won't stomach coughing up for the more conventional ways of redistributing quality-of-life from the wealthy to the poor, like universal healthcare or welfare benefits. So instead the government has to do it through these indirect and inefficient schemes disguised as defence procurement.

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Re: Egghead Gilmore, typical of a boffin to miss the point...

Food stamps for 1/6 of the population, free or minimal cost school meals, pensions for all, health care for most. Left wing on the inside, right wing on the outside.

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