back to article Manufacturers reject ‘no deal’ Brexit approach

The representative group for manufacturers is calling on the government to reject a "no deal is better than a bad deal" approach to Brexit, warning the UK’s manufacturing sector would bear the brunt. This week Prime Minister Theresa May will trigger Article 50. However, the Institute for Government - a charity working to …

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  1. wolfetone Silver badge
    Pint

    It'll be fine

    The 2 years will run it's course, they'll vote on extending the deadline within the EU and they'll agree to it. So there'll be another 6/12 months of negotiation, and then both sides will say they won when really both have had to make massive concessions.

    But no matter, we'll all be in the Winchester until the whole thing blows over.

    1. Alien8n Silver badge

      Re: It'll be fine

      Have you actually read what invoking Article 50 actually means? We have 2 years to make a deal. If in 24 months from invoking Article 50 we have no deal negotiated then we revert to WTO rules. No ifs, no buts, no extensions. The EU cannot extend negotiations without breaking their own rules.

      1. wolfetone Silver badge

        Re: It'll be fine

        "Have you actually read what invoking Article 50 actually means? We have 2 years to make a deal. If in 24 months from invoking Article 50 we have no deal negotiated then we revert to WTO rules. No ifs, no buts, no extensions. The EU cannot extend negotiations without breaking their own rules."

        You need to re-read Article 50 from something that isn't the Daily Fail or The S*n.

        If, at the end of negotiations, there is no deal a vote can be cast whereby the EU member states can agree to extend the time for negotiations. You can read the actual wording here, but to save you the trouble of clicking:

        "1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

        2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

        3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

        4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

        A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

        5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49."

        1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

          Re: It'll be fine

          "European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period"

          And you can see all of the EU members doing this to help the UK out? Really?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: It'll be fine

            "And you can see all of the EU members doing this to help the UK out? Really?"

            Well the whole EU will be desperate to do a deal with us, because we buy a lot of Volkswagens. I saw it on a GIF on Facebook before the referendum, so it must be true, right?

            1. cork.dom@gmail.com

              Re: It'll be fine

              There is a rather large element of truth in that yes.

              That is, we import more to the EU than we export. So tarrifs hurt the EU. Cars are one of the major good we import.

              It's quite simple really.

              1. Charlie Clark Silver badge
                Facepalm

                Re: It'll be fine

                It's quite simple really.

                It always is, isn't it? Except when you get round to actually doing it…

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: It'll be fine

            unanimously. In other words, individual member states can threaten to withhold unless they get things their way - wouldn't mind betting some very nervous people in Gibraltar are getting very irritated by the sweeping, and occasionally offensive, generalisations made by a lot of UK politicians right now.

        2. Hans 1 Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: It'll be fine

          If, at the end of negotiations, there is no deal a vote can be cast whereby the EU member states can agree to extend the time for negotiations.

          They can, but it would be against their interests, plus, one veto and it's fucked. They are dumb, in Brussels, agreed, but not that dumb!

        3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: It'll be fine

          "You need to re-read Article 50 from something that isn't the Daily Fail or The S*n."

          Good luck with trying to get them as far as para 3. There were some showing up here when the court cases were on who clearly hadn't read, or maybe read and not understood, para 1.

      2. dajames Silver badge

        Re: It'll be fine

        If in 24 months from invoking Article 50 we have no deal negotiated then we revert to WTO rules. No ifs, no buts, no extensions. The EU cannot extend negotiations without breaking their own rules.

        Untrue.

        According to this (PDF) section 3 of Article 50 says:

        3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

        Their own rules (however flawed) do make explicit provision for this.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: It'll be fine

          Their own rules (however flawed) do make explicit provision for this.

          The probability of a unanimous decision which is needed for this to happen is about NIL. This has little to do with herding cats, it has more to do with chickins coming home to roost and having diarrhea.

          UK meddled, messed and subsidized for two decades every single lunatic it can find around Russian borders. It also dragged the EU into that game in Ukraine.

          That bill is yet to be paid.

          Hillary paid the bill for her, her family and her party doing it for decades. UK has not paid yet.

          So anything May promises, begs or asks for will be countered by a significant sum of money and gas by a person with little hair and a name starting with V. I can also bet that it will be done in such a way that it will become clear who called the bill in - same as in USA. Just so that we know that meddling in other countries politics is not something that comes for free - you have to be able to pay the price for it when the bill is called.

          The chess pieces for this already being put in place - this is the actual reason "suitable" politicians are moving into place in some of the Eastern European countries. Just enough of them to ensure that this can be done. No point wasting money on more than needed. They are already elected or are being elected at the moment (most recent snap elections in the region were on Sunday). Just in time for the negotiations.

          1. Alien8n Silver badge

            Re: It'll be fine

            Unlike a few I'm more than happy to admit I was wrong. However as pointed out, the chances of every state agreeing to an extension is pretty much nil. It doesn't even need to be a member state, it took Canada 9 years to get a trade deal with the EU because a single German province kept voting no.

            Face it, May goes into these negotiations not just with a hand tied behind her back, but with a blindfold, last meal for the condemned and a 28 gun firing squad facing her.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: It'll be fine

              ... it took Canada 9 years to get a trade deal with the EU because a single German province kept voting no ...

              When you use easily verifiable historical facts to argue your position, it helps if you get these facts straight. Signing of the CETA was held up by Wallonia, which a province of Belgium, not Germany.

              1. graeme leggett

                Re: It'll be fine

                And the delay was only from July to October 2016.

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: It'll be fine

                >Signing of the CETA was held up by Wallonia, which a province of Belgium, not Germany.

                Belgium, or Greater Germany as we like to think of it on the continent.....

            2. LDS Silver badge
              Joke

              ".... a 28 gun firing squad facing her"

              Who is the defected British?

              1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

                Re: ".... a 28 gun firing squad facing her"

                With the tories you can normally rely on more guns at your back than in front of you

              2. Alien8n Silver badge

                Re: ".... a 28 gun firing squad facing her"

                We've proven ourselves more than capable of shooting ourselves, so it wouldn't surprise me if any deal is scuppered at the last minute by our own stubbornness and lack of compromise.

                And I was close, I was going from memory, so Germany/Belgium wasn't too bad. And the delay may have been just a few months, but it took them years to get to that point. Or do you think Canada managed to negotiate a trade deal in just a couple of months?

      3. Jess

        Re: The EU cannot extend negotiations without breaking their own rules.

        Effectively you are correct.

        However technically, all the nations could unanimously vote to extend the deadline.

        (Obviously it would be about the same odds as a wheelbarrow full of frogs staying put on a hot day.)

        1. gnasher729 Silver badge

          Re: The EU cannot extend negotiations without breaking their own rules.

          The EU also has two years time to vote on changes in their own rules. If they _want_ to negotiate for longer, then they _will_ negotiate for longer. Whether they want to is an entirely different question, but there is no question that they can.

      4. Peter Christy

        Re: It'll be fine

        Yes, but the EU is very good at breaking its own rules! Under EU rules, Greece and Portugal - and possibly Italy and Spain - should never have been admitted to the Euro, as their economies did not meet the required criteria. They were allowed in anyway, because they were "trending in the right direction"! That worked well, didn't it?

        My home town is close to a major fishing port. When we joined the EU at first, Britain was the only country enforcing EU fishing quotas, with fishery inspection vessels checking every trawler they came across in British waters - much to the detriment of local fishermen. How the Spanish and French fishermen screamed about the unfairness of it, when they got caught up in the net - because their governments were just ignoring the rules.

        Don't get me wrong! I understand the importance of fishing quotas. What I cannot stomach is other countries just ignoring their obligations under the supposedly universal rules.....

        1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

          Re: It'll be fine

          Don't get me wrong! I understand the importance of fishing quotas. What I cannot stomach is other countries just ignoring their obligations under the supposedly universal rules.

          Quotas have their own problems but you're basically right that the expansion of the EU to include Spain and Portugal made overfishing in the North Sea a bigger problem. But you have to ask yourself: how effective is the UK going to be if it's outside the club? Will it be able to push for stricter quotas in the parts of the Atlantic and North Sea that are outside its territorial waters?

          As for following the rules, this is a perennial problem with Germany being surprisingly one of the worst offenders: notably in matters of air and water pollution. But compliance has by and large got much better over the last ten years. Greece is a complete mess but if the alternative is a failed state next to Turkey… Elsewhere the EU is often seen as a way to discipline otherwise wayward governments with the EU bailouts being a form of, er, soft power.

      5. cork.dom@gmail.com

        Re: It'll be fine

        Wow. What you have written is patently untrue. However I am flabbergasted at the amount of upvotes you have for posting a complete pack of lies!!

        If both parties (the EU and the UK) agree to an extension it will happen.

        Although as the 27 EU states cannot agree on anything in 2 years an extension is unlikely to occur admittedly.

        Source :

        http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2016/577971/EPRS_BRI(2016)577971_EN.pdf

        Pertinent paragraph:

        "If no agreement is concluded within two years, that

        state's membership ends automatically, unless the European Council and the Member

        State concerned decide jointly to extend this period."

        I voted leave.

        Apparently i am an uneducated xenophobic racist. Clearly i am more educated than you regarding Article 50. Oh, and i have visited over 50 countries. Loved them all (except maybe the US and Australia). So maybe i am Xenophobic to English speaking countries.... Don't let that confuse your stereotype though.. :)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It'll be fine

      So there'll be another 6/12 months

      We all know that there is a significant amount of prosac contamination in UK drinking water, but I never expected it is that high.

      The vested interests both economical and political are already stacked up against dragging this on. There is also a significant amount of vested interest against everything UK is asking for.

      Eastern Europe is not going to play ball on the subject of free movement of labor. If all the unemployed from there which came to the UK to work and are doing the dirty jobs which no Brit will take go back they will have to deal with them. Similarly, all the professionals they paid to be trained (nurses, doctors, etc) which came here would be very welcome back. They will play hardball.

      Western Europe is salivating at the perspective of banking jobs moving out of the UK and will similarly play hardball.

      Politicians in both East and West are salivating at the perspective of moved manufacturing consuming some of their structural unemployment. They will play hardball.

      Just to be clear - I am not sucking this one out of my finger - I actually know people up to PM/MP level in more than one Eu country and this is based on my first hands observations.

    3. LDS Silver badge

      Re: It'll be fine

      Check what article 50 says about the extension - it requires unanimity: "The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period."

      Thereby you just need a single state, say for example Poland, angry because UK denies entry to its plumbers, to hinder an extension. May may try to play poker, but with 28 players, it could become a Russian roulette...

      1. Hans 1 Silver badge
        Coffee/keyboard

        Re: It'll be fine

        May may try to play poker, but with 28 players, it could become a Russian roulette...

        May may try to play poker, but with 28 players, it IS Russian roulette... with two guns, one for the UK, charged, and one empty, for the others ...

        TFTFY

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: It'll be fine

          1. You are overlooking our own politicians track record of shooting themselves in the foot

          2. All of those guns are armed. Some have bullets, some buckshot, some bullsh*t. No-one wins a prize for guessing what Farage loaded May's gun with.

      2. Androgynous Cupboard Silver badge

        Re: It'll be fine

        May may try to play poker, but with 28 players, it could become a Russian roulette

        May I propose that we rename Russian Roulette "British Roulette", in recognition of our current trajectory?

    4. lorisarvendu
      Trollface

      Re: It'll be fine

      If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through. [/General Melchett]

    5. streaky Silver badge

      Re: It'll be fine

      There's no way to get a deal with the EU. They're intransigent no matter how much it benefits them and have a habit of focusing on silly side issues at the expense of dealing with the core issue. There's no way they'll agree to any deal as far as I can see, and I doubt an extension will either be acceptable to either the EU or the UK electorate.

      I'm fine with all this because I voted for Brexit and we don't want a deal, multilateral trade deals are abusive. Just saying if you think there's going to be UK access to the single market as it looks now you might need a reality check. Duties are the price that we pay for accessing markets.

      As for manufacturers they're welcome to move out the UK - but they should recognise that duties apply both ways.

      1. Frumious Bandersnatch Silver badge

        Re: It'll be fine

        They're intransigent no matter how much it benefits them

        That has still to be seen. If May, as she indicates she will do, goes into negotiations effectively saying "fuck you, we're prepared for these negotiations to fail, despite the massive collateral damage this will cause to both sides," then it's hardly a good strategy for dealing with the other member states. You brought them to the negotiating table so if you want to soften their perceived intransigence, this strategy is pretty much guaranteed to achieve the opposite.

        1. streaky Silver badge

          Re: It'll be fine

          That has still to be seen.

          There's a fairly large catalogue of evidence this is the case though, it takes the EU way way too long to do trade deals even when they're reasonably simple - and even then deals usually hang on a knife edge because of some nonsense.

          If May, as she indicates she will do, goes into negotiations effectively saying "fuck you, we're prepared for these negotiations to fail, despite the massive collateral damage this will cause to both sides," then it's hardly a good strategy for dealing with the other member states.

          I don't think those are the words she'll use up front but I suspect it's where it'll end up within 12 months.

          You brought them to the negotiating table so if you want to soften their perceived intransigence, this strategy is pretty much guaranteed to achieve the opposite.

          Fairly sure it's just a play to buy time to get diplomacy back up to speed. I'm a brexiteer as I said, I have no problem dealing with the EU as long as we're outside it and I don't particularly wish them ill although many groups of voters that will be left inside it should - I just don't see a deal being a thing that's going to happen beyond very broad issues. Certainly duty-less single market access is an impossibility as far as I can see. A EU-UK banking regulation agreement (or treaty) is fairly likely - the EU needs the cash flows and the Euro trading centre that London is and it'll save the EU from having to move the EBA which is looking like it'll do more damage to solidarity within what remains that Brexit ever could so it's a win-win for both sides. Intel, Europol, things like that look likely. Just not the single market. Again, that's fine, the EU is not a big export partner for the UK and it's not like those exports will cease to exist merely lose volume. 10% of not much is not much, and it's easily filled by trade expansion outside the EU. That's how we win.

          Before somebody cries - despite the noise that's made if the EU cuts off London from the EU financial markets the jobs don't magically appear in Paris and Frankfurt what happens is the banks move to New York and Hong Kong and the funding flows into the EU slow down dramatically. They're welcome to give it their best shot though, I'll supply the popcorn.

          1. beerfuelled

            Re: It'll be fine

            "the EU is not a big export partner for the UK"... Only 44% of our exports are to the EU. Yeah - that's not much at all. For any maths-challenged folk that means nearly half. Like I said, not much at all.

            1. Terry 6 Silver badge

              Re: It'll be fine

              In all these discussions, whether in El Reg or down the pub it's worth us remembering that among the 52% that made up the "clear majority" of voters to leave the EU there is a group of determined Hard Brexiteers whose attitude to the EU is nothing short of hatred. No rational discussion is possible with that group, because any suggestion of anything that is less than a clear and complete break with any and every aspect of the EU is seen by them as a threat. To these any mention of a down side to Brexit is seen as a betrayal, treachery and subversion. Waverers and doubters, let alone Remainers ("remoaners" in their minds), in other words, are The Enemy. To them it is clear and evident that the rest of the world will be queuing up to buy British goods when we're free from any association with Europe. British manufacturing will suddenly be producing goods that the world will want to buy at advantageous prices. That EU workers will vanish away and British companies will offer higher wages to ensure that British workers will want to take the nastier jobs that have been performed by Eastern Europeans - but without putting prices up for British consumers ( which is exactly what one such Brexiteer told me would happen the morning after the vote). We'll be able to " take back control " and have solid and well enforced consumer protection laws that haven't been written by the EU And all the British people living and working in Europe will, err Oh, what? Be allowed to stay there while we won't accept Europeans here?

              But at least we'll all be able to eat well. We will just need to catch the flying pigs and the chickens coming home to roost.

              1. cork.dom@gmail.com

                Re: It'll be fine

                Ouch.

                Calm down Mr Angry. I am sure it will be fine. I do seem to remember we had things like Kite Marks and British Standards before EU consumer protection laws. Or are you in your mid twenties and have failed to understand that this country functioned very well before the EU was invented?

                We even had electricity and roads you know! Not as nice as those EU funded lovely roads you get in France these days admittedly but they still existed.

                Chill out. It will be fine.

                1. H in The Hague Silver badge

                  Re: It'll be fine

                  "I do seem to remember we had things like Kite Marks and British Standards before EU consumer protection laws."

                  Yup. But in those days appliances were much more expensive than they are today because the standards were specific to each market so the markets were smaller. And if you, or that nice Mr Dyson, want to export appliances today (or in two years' time) they'll need to have the quality marks required by the market you're selling to, i.e. CE for the UK's nearest neighbours and UL/... for the US. At least the UK currently has an input (valued, from what I gather from a colleague) into CE standards - about to lose that.

                  "Or are you in your mid twenties and have failed to understand that this country functioned very well before the EU was invented?"

                  I'm in my mid-fifties and can remember some bits of the UK which worked quite well a few decades ago and some which didn't (winter of discontent??). I'm also v aware of the bureaucratic crap one had to deal with in those days when exporting/importing stuff. And at the risk of being personal, it sounds like you're not. Have _you_ failed to understand how much hassle exporting, or temporarily taking kit abroad (carnet? that'll be 200 quid http://www.londonchamber.co.uk/docimages/14106.pdf) used to be? And as far as democracy is concerned, your directly elected MEP can vote on EU decisions about trade, under WTO it's only the governments - so less democracy, more unelected bureaucrats - that doesn't sound like taking back control.

                  Apols for the rant, not in a good mood. Good night.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: It'll be fine

            Again, that's fine, the EU is not a big export partner for the UK ...

            I am not sure whether your definition of "big" is the same as used by the rest of the humanity.

            According to https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/, about 44% of UK exports in goods and services went to other countries in the EU in 2015, while 53% of our imports into the UK came from other countries in the EU in 2015.

            I have no doubt the UK can and will survive and possibly even thrive without these trade links - but it is foolish to dismiss their possible disruption as something that will magically sort itself out with no pain to everybody involved.

            1. streaky Silver badge

              Re: It'll be fine

              Those numbers are only what they are because we're *forced* to push trade to the EU. Point still stands, 10% (which is beyond an extreme worst case) loss (which isn't going to happen for many many reasons but lets pretend it did) equates to 4% real terms. 20% would be an ~8% worldwide trade gap to fill and frankly if 20% happened it'd be the end of the entire economic system globally because there's no reason for EU exports to fall 20%. They're going to fall worst case to whatever the tariff figures would be minus currency fluctuations (thanks Obama) and we already know what those numbers are. And that's worst case scenario territory.

              people in Gibraltar are getting very irritated by the sweeping, and occasionally offensive, generalisations made by a lot of UK politicians right now.

              *crickets*

              I'm sure Spain will have them back. I was offended by the idea that the UK should base its entire foreign and trade policy on the votes of 20k people.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: It'll be fine

                "I'm sure Spain will have them back."

                Thats nowhere near the point - it's not up to this government to trade away their rights, any more than it should be trading away anyone else's. Thanks for showing that at least some Leave supporters aren't interested in genuine negotiations though.

                1. streaky Silver badge

                  Re: It'll be fine

                  Thats nowhere near the point - it's not up to this government to trade away their rights

                  Their rights aren't being traded away. They can stay as they are and leave the EU with the UK or they can hold a referendum and be either an independent state (I'd advise against this, strongly) or become part of Spain and remain in the EU (gl with the tax thing). That's not a trade, that's they can chose their future. I'd put good money on what they'd chose to do because I know the reality. Gibraltar has a lot of options here, they can do whatever they like, but the idea the UK should drop everything for them is patently absurd.

                  Thanks for showing that at least some Leave supporters aren't interested in genuine negotiations though

                  I have no problem with negotiations with people that have found grip on reality. There's no grip to be found with the average remainer is the problem. The other thing we've learned is a basic grasp of economics, politics and democracy escapes them - which shockingly is probably why they want to be in the EU in the first place.

              2. Patrician

                Re: It'll be fine

                Your getting those figures from where? Wishful thinking? Hope? Faith?

          3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: It'll be fine

            "Again, that's fine, the EU is not a big export partner for the UK and it's not like those exports will cease to exist merely lose volume."

            I regularly drive past a specialist shipping packer. Not the sort of place that shoves stuff in standard containers. They deal with the big one-off jobs, the sort you see as wide loads on the motorway (some of those wide load escort vehicles are hanging around from time to time).

            No doubt the businesses that use this firm sell to a world-wide market. But at present the EU won't really be an export market for them - it's their home market. And they're going to lose 28/29ths of that. The sad fact is that a lot, maybe a majority of the employees of those specialist firms probably voted for Brexit. Will they wish they hadn't in a few years time?

      2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: It'll be fine

        Duties are the price that we pay for accessing markets.

        Duties are the least of anybody's worries: trade moved beyond duties years ago: the real issue will be non-tariff barriers. E.g. the UK will only be able to offer financial services that conform to EU regulations; Nissan and Toyota (we can assume Vauxhall doesn't have much of a future anyway) will only be allowed to sell cars to the EU that meet EU exhaust and safety norms, etc.. This is why financial service companies that do not already have subsidiaries elsewhere in the EU (Luxembourg is popular) are busy looking for offices. Small, brass plate offices for now maybe but with the potential for significant expansion.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: It'll be fine

          Or coming from a another way.

          Even if we have tariff free (or very low tariff free) access to the EU single market, if we reduce regulations (bonfire of whatever) on our manufacturers in terms of the product made, we still wouldn't be able to sell to Europe.

        2. cork.dom@gmail.com

          Re: It'll be fine

          Clearly someone who doesn't understand our financial services sector.

  2. James 51 Silver badge

    Spain can not risk Scotland breaking away from the UK while the UK is still in the EU and might scupper its chances of joining the EU if it does become independant. There will be no extension and lots of other countries will look to expand their own industries at the expense of the UK's. Just look at Paris and Frankfurt going after the banks. This will be short, sharp and incredibly painful. Lets not forget this is not just ecomonics, it is politics and May wants out of the ECJ at any cost, UK ecomony be dammed.

    1. phuzz Silver badge
      Headmaster

      I think you might be confusing the European Court of Justice, which deals with disputes between European states, with the European Court of Human Rights, which is the one May hates because (eg) they don't think that GCHQ should always be spying on everyone.

      When we leave the EU we will no longer be under the jurisdiction of the ECJ (I'm pretty sure), but we will still be covered by the ECHR.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        May has set independence from the ECJ as one of the conditions of "brexit means brexit".

        Unfortunately the ECJ is used as a de facto common court for hundreds if not thousands of regulations and agreements that are not directly related to the EU (e.g. the european Open Skies agreement allowing airlines to fly wherever they damned well please), because it works within the common EU law. Unpicking that within a 24 month timeframe will be impossible.

      2. James 51 Silver badge

        http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/753997/Theresa-May-Brexit-ECJ-influence-European-Court-of-Justice-Michael-Gove

        The ECJ has slapped various UK goverments but the tories in particular around when they have abused UK citizens (just see the whole data protection saga as an example). May wants out so she can have free riegn to do what ever the hell she wants to whom ever she wants when ever she wants. Make no mistake, Brexit is being used as an excuse to destory the legacy of the post WW2 generation that put things like the ECJ in place to prevent the horrors of the 30s coming back to bite future generations. The ECHR is next on her hit list.

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