back to article BlackBerry admits dying BB10 is in pain

BlackBerry has finally acknowledged problems with the much-delayed 10.3.3 update to BlackBerry 10 that users began to receive late last year. In September 2015, as it announced the company’s first Android device, BlackBerry CEO John Chen promised that its home grown BB10 platform wasn’t dead. It had last received an update …

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You can add vodafone to the list of companies that haven't released it yet.

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BB OS has always been a pile of buggy shite.

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Anonymous Coward

You shut your mouth, you bastard!!1! Yes, the BB10 is a pile of flame-broiled dung on a stick, but everyone has completely forgotten the grandeur, the class, the elegance that was the BB-8:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BB-8

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>You shut your mouth,

https://supportforums.blackberry.com/t5/BlackBerry-OS-Smartphones/bd-p/Other_devices

I still rest my case, lots of misty eyed fan boys who forget too easily. Missing phone logs, dropped calls, failing to pick up the next cell tower, random crashes, constantly having to pull the battery - shall I go on ?

That's just the Bold, the less said about the (shit) Storm the better.

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Mushroom

Spills Tea Violently

Have you used BB10 before?

I admit it is missing features which were in BB8 (Although I have no idea what they were and I cant be bothered to Google it), but had Blackberry sold their devices at a reasonable price I wouldn't have jumped ship from a Q10 to a cheap 100 quid android device.

Still by far the best smart phone I have ever had owned (But I refuse to spend stupid amounts on a phone anymore), didn't need apps to do the basics and more importantly didn't feel like another rip off of Android or iOS UI. Currently have a work Dtek and its nice some apps have been migrated, however its not accessed in the same way as BB10 and generally I can't see how anyone would want to spend 20 minutes going through allowing the Blackberry software access on android (Every Blackberry app that launched required I give it access, the email app is still much better than the Gmail app).

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BB10 was good but failed to gain traction do to mis ques

I used BB7 and found it to be solid and efficient for productivity purposes, I now have BB10 its almost the same story HOWEVER as a BB Classic owner I do admit the OS is let down by modest hardware and a small screen, not to mention the gorilla in the room which is the lack of apps. Otherwise the OS has TRUE multitasking and you can easily move between concurrently running apps. I have never had the OS crash on me in the middle of something. At most the app crashes or you get low memory warnings / the device starts running oddly suggesting a reboot is in order. After saying the above I too can hear the music for this OS and need to explore my options.

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I think it's safe to say

That there is no IT angle to this story. More's the pitty

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How dead does the horse have to be before you stop flogging it?

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Depends what you are flogging it with. 600KV jump leads make even a very dead horse jump for a while.

The problem here is more of the nature that the voltage in the leads has dropped dramatically. BB OS has been dead for a while, but was still getting an occasional 600KV jolt. This is clearly visible now after RIM dropped the voltage.

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Megaphone

as Microsoft about their Windows Phone Horse

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Being in possession of two handsets from that dead equine I would agree. Failure to provide Phone 10 for barely 2 year old hardware was a major fail.

RIP WinPhone and BlackBerry. No really, just die gracefully FFS.

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"as Microsoft about their Windows Phone Horse"

Microsoft are still releasing regular mobile OS updates though... And still make phones.

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Anonymous Coward

"Microsoft are still releasing regular mobile OS updates though... And still make phones."

For how much longer?

Looking at the recent Kantar survey for the three months ending Jan 17, they're below 2% new sales market share in US, UK, Oz, Japan, and even in France & Germany market share is below 3% having halved in the twelve months. And in China they're down to 0.1%, from 0.3% a year ago.

You have to ask, when Microsoft release a mobile OS update, do all three users get it at the same time?

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Still flogging it then.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a hater, I really liked WinPho8.1, still do. I'm just annoyed at MS for strangling a gifted child shortly after birth.

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"For how much longer?"

For a fair while longer apparently. The Surface Phone is still coming although not soon - any likely some more Windows 10 Phones first - see for instance: http://www.droidreport.com/articles/4169/20170320/microsoft-surface-phone-reportedly-postponed-other-new-foldable-windows-10-phone-releasing-this-year.htm

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Anonymous Coward

"Microsoft are still releasing regular mobile OS updates though... And still make phones."

So is Blackberry, in both cases. Must be hard to see the writing on the wall behind those rose coloured glasses though.

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Sad...

It looked like a good idea at the time, but it demonstrates just how much in the way of resources you need to provide a competitive phone OS these days.

Whether it is a good idea to have important communications infrastructure dependent on two such complex platforms is quite another matter, one I am certainly not competent to discuss.

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Apart from the obvious "who gives a toss?" angle, why do the networks manage to restrict updates for OSes (like android and blackberry)? And how come Apple get away with it?

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Anonymous Coward

It only happens if you buy a phone from a network - if you buy it unlocked then they don't restrict it.

They retain control as they wish to test th enew updates to make sure there are no issues, make sure they have the knowledgebase up to date for staff, and they are trained to be able to support them and that their extra bloatware will work with them. Different networks use different frequencies and tech so it is an extra check for their customers. As you buy the phone from the network they are required to provide a level of support *

Don't know about Apple.

*Of course the chance of them doing this for every software for every handset is slim, so most are probably loaded on to a test handset and then given an all clear, good to go. Blackberry probably has more thorough testing due to the blackberry hardware that the networks need to have.

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>And how come Apple get away with it?

Apple had leverage over network operators - because the iPhone was desirable to a good number of people - and they used it. I guess Apple had seen how network operators used to adorn the GUIs of 'feature phones' with horrible branding and wanted no truck with it. Network operators at the time were also trying to make money from selling Java applications and ringtones, and Apple had enough sway to take that from them too. Apple also pressured them into offering cheaper and less limited data tariffs.

However, it isn't just network operators that impede the roll-out of OS updates - it is also chipset vendors, device vendors and sometimes regulatory bodies (I use Android but don't get my phones from my network operator - I like being covered by the Sales of Goods Act). Google will release code to say Qualcomm who then, if they can be arsed to support a chip, will release a binary blob to the handset vendor. If they can be arsed to put out an update, they will develop it, test it, maybe go back to the chip vendor.... rinse, repeat. Then the update might go to the network operator and the regulator, more testing, possibly has to go back up the chain again...

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The question isn't how Apple got away with it

Because they have, and the carriers can't turn back the clock. The question is whether Android could get away with it. Samsung is probably the only OEM who sells through carriers with enough market power to force the issue if they wanted. Even that's questionable, since carriers have plenty of Android alternatives they could push and offer deals on instead.

What you have to realize though is that the average person doesn't care much about updates. Their experience with them in the tech world is mostly one of inconvenience and pain. Microsoft was able to train people to tolerate updates only because security holes became a bigger inconvenience and pain than the updates!

The only way the average Android user is going to demand timely updates is if Android sees similar malware issues to what Windows did back in Windows XP's heyday. Until then, choosing a Google branded phone because it gets updates is only a factor for Reg reader types, not for the average man in the street. Thus Samsung has little incentive to try to force the issue with the carriers like Apple did.

Even if Android OEMs or Google itself could take control of the update process, I'm not sure they'd really want to. Apple gets pretty universal adoption (80% on iOS 10, not bad since not all older devices can even run it) because they've made the process almost painless. Having control of the whole hardware and software stack, and a manageable number of models makes that possible. Google and Microsoft could never hope to match Apple's success, since they have no control over the hardware.

If Google released Android 8.0 and half the Android devices in the world got a pop up saying it was available and you could click to install right then, take the number of problem reports about a major iOS upgrade and multiply by 10,000x - if they're lucky!

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See the comments about "testing", "rework", "testing", "release", etc. Then realize that this costs the ISP's/networks money. Money from the bottom line not to mention the cost of the bandwidth for the updates. Bottom line is king and everything else can just go to hell.

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You can expand that to "it costs everyone, except Google, money". They do incur the initial development costs, to be fair. After that it all comes from the pockets of the OEM/SP/networks who get to localize/internationalize, offer different verticals, and cover the whole world, not just the US. And you wonder why only Google, and marginally Samsung, makes money off Android.

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JLV
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Link (and their other sync tool too) is the sorriest POS excuse for software I've seen yet. Never works, but always lacks error messages. Maybe they should have fixed it before doing on phone video/photo montage tools?

Otherwise, BB10 is pretty solid for me, but then I have limited needs for apps - just want good useability, long battery life. And a keyboard.

Not looking towards having to get an iPhone or Android next. Been there, done that.

Txs for heads up.

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Link (and their other sync tool too) is the sorriest POS excuse for software I've seen yet.

You've not seen Samsung's Kies then?

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JLV
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No, but I do know Sammy's remote app for their smart TVs. So maybe I was being unfair to Link after all ;-)

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Have BB7 and BB10, BB7 is still going strong and combination of keyboard, multiple email accounts, calendar and contacts sync'ed via gmail, BB travel, Facebook and SMS and its fine - if need browser, whatsap etc then I have tablet.

Who gets time to listen to music or take pictures, too buys working.

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Sad end of a company

It's a bad time to have a RIM job.

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Support for Blackberry

I think there is still a lot of support for Blackberry. I for one do not relish the prospect of being forced to migrate to either Iphone or "mainstream" Android devices. The killer for a lot of people will, I suspect, be in the hands of Whatsapp if they go ahead with their threat and remove support for BB. FWIW BB users: Sign this petition:-

https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/no-end-of-support-for-whatsapp-on-blackberry-10

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Re: Support for Blackberry

Sorry no. I hope they (Whatsapp) burn in hell. The way they slurp contacts without those contacts' permission is unforgivable.

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Re: Support for Blackberry

Isn't this totally irrelevant though? With BB10 you effectively have the best of both worlds - Blackberry AppWorld and Amazon's Android app store. Whatsapp doing support only applies to the Blackberry app doesn't it? So you can just download the Android version from Amazon.

Am I completely wrong here?

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Re: Support for Blackberry

Google Play services is the reason why having Amazon app store is a red herring.. lots of apps simply don't work or are "not supported on this device"

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I love(d) my Passport and despite them having a Android build for it they will never release it unfortunately. I'd even be happy to pay a £20 "Google Tax" if necessary to switch mine to Droid life.. As it is I use a Priv for my everyday device... I still prefer the format and keyboard on the PP though...

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BB10 is mostly good, but incomplete

Verizon pushed out the update to my Blackberry Classic last month. It improved things. Now the browser is fast enough to be usable, vs. using QBrowser before. Battery life is at least as good as it was, which is better than any Android phone. BB10 was a good OS that would have been a winner had Google allowed Google Play Services to run on it. There is a hack that lets the Play Store work on it, but too many apps don't work right without the Services, and the patch published in the BB blogs by Cobalt, which involves patching the apk's on a PC, doesn't work for me.

But Link is awful. On my Win7 Pro desktop machine, installing it breaks the Ethernet port. I ended up installing it in a separate Win7 VM inside the Win7 pro machine. Ugly, but less to break.

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I have a z30 on 10.3.3 which has exhibited zero problems since updating. Similarly BB Link works to sync my address book, calendar, music, pictures, videos and documents without issue. For BB Blend there do seem to be issues with the Hub and Text messages although the rest seem to be working ok. On the other hand, I don't use that very often.

On a personal note, there is no way I want to share my information with google or with apple, so there is no way on GGE that I will own an android or IPhone.

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Pint

Isn't lock in great?

I so wish someone would build a low cost 4g raspberry pi hat that can do voice and data calls. If thousands of hackers can code their own phone prototype, someone will have much better ideas that what has come out of the major vendors of late.

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Blackberry News Flash!

Blackberry News Flash!

March 25, 2017

Blackberry is finished as a company! Or most definitely should be.... I bought another brand new Blackberry Classic back in November 2016, about a week after they stopped selling that model on their website. But still selling that model through retailers off their site and selling that Blackberry operating system right now as their new fan dangled OS. Not being able to back up my 2 year old Classic, I thought it had a problem. Then recently, a couple weeks ago, realized something else was going on. So I tried to load my still brand new unused Blackberry Classic with my prior saved data and phone back on file, it didn't work either... With the current updated new Blackberry OS version on a brand new Blackberry phone you can not do as advertised, You can not send any contact data, music data, Picture data, videos, or phone data of any sort through a data cable, bluetooth or Wifi. They now all of a sudden expect me to use an SD card for one time use (like before they even started making this type equipment lol) to transfer data to and from my brand new Blackberry phone. So Blend does not work! Link does not work! Neither does their hardware properly! None works as advertised. They are committing wire fraud, fraud, and conspiring to defraud their customers in the future. It is time to file a class action lawsuit and take them down. Also ask FBI and RCMP to investigate these fake, fraud artists. They can’t do or supply what they are selling basically, so they are finished as a company or definitely should be.

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Pint

Alas and alack

First, where do you get a Passport with that cool gold frame ?

To think that a QNX based product should fall to such depths. It must be that the Gods are still angry with the original arrogance of RIM.

Perhaps Blackberry will have the decency to open-source BB 10 ? It would open the possibility for the first real posix phone.

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