back to article Spies do spying, part 97: Shock horror as CIA turn phones, TVs, computers into surveillance bugs

WikiLeaks has dumped online what appears to be a trove of CIA documents outlining the American murder-snoops' ability to spy on people. The leaked files describe security exploits used to compromise vulnerable Android handhelds, Apple iPhones, Samsung TVs, Windows PCs, Macs, and other devices, to read messages, listen in via …

vir

I Wonder...

If this will give manufacturers an incentive to take security of their devices seriously?

Ahahahahahaha...couldn't say that with a straight face.

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FAIL

Re: I Wonder...

Next will come pass keys so the cops can walk through your house whenever they want "just to make sure everything is OK."

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I Wonder...

Well the Great Cyber War will learn everyone quick unless it happens in the next four years in which case millions of years from now only our plastic will be here to tell the tale.

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Unhappy

"Next will come pass keys so the cops can walk through your house whenever they want"

Nice analogy.

Simple enough that most people would actually get a clue "This is not a good idea."

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Re: I Wonder...

Fuck the lot of them, the easiest thing is to just roll over and die and then those ruling elite cunts cant farm you, its been going on since before Roman times. Divide and conquer ad infinitum.

Then what will they do. Keep paying out benefits for the stupid to keep breeding.

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Re: I Wonder...

Seems to me that products where the battery can't be removed should be avoided if you're concerned about this. Most people won't care.

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Big Brother

OMG!

the government is spying on you

Quick rip out the internet and smash your smart TV....... after you've downloaded a box set of 'the walking dead' and saved tonight's football on the tivo.....

Mind you , one misplaced IP address and the CIA etc are listening to a 4 month old baby sleeping instead of the Russian 2nd trade secretary bonking an MPs typist.....

All bought to you via some need to have everything connected to the internet whether its needs to be or not

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Trollface

Re: OMG!

If you look at the reference in the wiki leaks article https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/ and note the reference to Weeping Angels, then look at the wiki reference for Weeping Angels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weeping_Angel

It indicates a level of planning and tie up between the UK & US, both military/law enforcement as well as organisations like the script writers involved in the Dr Who series.

Do you think these things are just co-incidences? So for your next challenge try and spot what other organisations or entities are also tied in with this planning and execution, and does it spread beyond the UK & US regions, to perhaps the 5 eyes region or even further?

So many possibilities, but not enough data....

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Don't close your eyes!

No coincidence, but not necessarily a US+UK collusion either. Most hackers are science fiction fans. "Weeping angel" is actually an apt name for something that looks like an inert everyday object, but is actively listening.

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Re: OMG!

Incredible really, given my Samsung TV can't even do a software update in the background when it's turned on!! I'd be happy for them to listen to my kids argue about minecraft videos if they could make Sammy's crappy software a bit better while they're there...

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Re: Don't close your eyes!

I guess the strongest evidence of US/UK collusion would be the line:

"Accomplishments during joint workshop with MI5/BTSS (week of Jun 16, 2014)" (from here).

How lovely, they have spies-own hackathons where they work out how to spy on us with our tellys.

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And they all laughed...

When I put electrician's tape over my camera lenses and unplugged by PC and TV at the wall, and used a pre-GPRS mobile, they all laughed. Ha! Who has the last laugh now, spied-on dupes?!? Answer me that!! Ha ha ha ha!

--the one in the tin-foil hat, utterly vindicated

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Re: And they all laughed...

Just wondering how you managed to post this, considering you are disconnected?

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@Hollerithevo

"Ha! Who has the last laugh now, spied-on dupes?!? Answer me that!!"

The government. Because you obviously have something to hide which is highly suspicious. Just to be on the safe side I would recommend ignoring any possible (legit) lottery offers which suddenly declare you the winner of a free vacation to Cuba :P

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Facepalm

Re: And they all laughed...

There is nothing to see here, this is all oldschool stuff. If you have a specific target and get physical access, it's always been "game over". You don't even need CIA tools.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: @Hollerithevo

Plus be sure you got ALL the cameras, including the secret pinhole camera concealed in the bevel of your screen.

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Alien

Re: And they all laughed...

Just wondering how you managed to post this, considering you are disconnected?

Alien lizard special mind powers. It's *always* alien lizard special mind powers..

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Anonymous Coward

WOW ! who'd have thought..

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So the secret people...

... who can't keep their own 'secrets', um, secret, want 'backdoors' into everything so they can make sure they don't keep _our_ secrets?

Because, obviously, those backdoors will _never_ be leaked, right? Er... right?

Sigh...

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Big Brother

Don't laugh, one day you might disagree with your Government then the Eye of Sauron will be swivelled in your direction. Ever hear of the Tolpuddle Martyrs or the Peterloo Massacre ?

Nothing to hide and plenty to fear.

Anyone know where I can rent or buy a lead lined cave ?

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Facepalm

Anyone know where I can rent or buy a lead lined cave ?

Zoopla or Rightmove?

No, wait. Big Brother saw you searching for that. Now you're a "person of interest".

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"one day you might disagree with your Government"

Oh, but I do! And how many of us have sat watching TV and swearing at the witless politicians that allegedly run our country? I'm sure if the idiots were told that if our TVs were bugged we could be sued for slander at some stage.

Mind you, we watch endless reruns of Murder She Wrote, so I have nothing to hide...

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Alien

Makes you wonder

What ELSE have they done that the tinfoil hatters said they were doing?

False flag email hacks? Wiretapping Trump?

Assassinations, drug/gun/human trafficking, gruesome experiments on unsuspecting citizens?

Methinks we're about to find out.

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Trollface

Re: Makes you wonder

Oooh! Oooh! I know! Can we do HAARP next, please...?

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Linux

While it was nice to see no mention of Linux here...

1) ...but the original article mentions Linux too

2) most interesting part for me in related HN thread was that CIA had to tag all this cyber-weaponry as "declassified" because otherwise the person who deploys it on hacked systems should be prosecuted

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Re: While it was nice to see no mention of Linux here...

They do have Linux hacks.

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Re: While it was nice to see no mention of Linux here...

Except for the detailed document showing the linux kernel hacked in the Samsung F8000 tv set, and used as 'FalseOff' to enable camera and microphone while appearing to be off...

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Linux

Re: While it was nice to see no mention of Linux here...

This is because they need to "get into it" first.

Not as trivial as with another OS that can't be audited.

Not saying Linux is perfect or unhackable but it is a tad more difficult to get into Linux servers if they are configured correctly.

The more savvy and seasoned the user, the hardest to hack.

But all of this is moot if the state is after you.

They will apprehend you at your door, bash the hell out of you, get your keys and passwords and simply plant whatever evidence they want on your computer.

And you my dear friends will never know and will hate me once the press writes the corresponding kill piece and the BBC declares me enemy of the people.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: While it was nice to see no mention of Linux here...

"They will apprehend you at your door, bash the hell out of you, get your keys and passwords and simply plant whatever evidence they want on your computer." As some Police officers do already, arrest on sus, take your keys and using 'cain & able' spoof the date and insert something that will get you jail time...

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Anonymous Coward

Security axioms:

1. If it has an antenna, it can be compromised.

2. If it has an internet connection, it is likely compromised.

3. If it has a microphone, it may be listening.

4. If it has a camera, it may be recording or imaging.

5. If it has a GPS, WiFi, or maybe Bluetooth it is tracking your location.

6. 'Off' may well be 'On'.

7. If it is stored in the cloud, someone else has it.

8. No cloud encryption can be trusted.

9. Two factor authentication with a compromised device is compromised.

10. Encryption with a compromised device is compromised everywhere.

11. Anything that can reach an open or weakly encrypted WiFi should be presumed to be on the internet.

12. If it is backed up to the cloud, someone else has it.

13. Most things new and electronic have an antenna.

14. Connected cars are on the internet.

15. Insurance dongles for cars are an open attack vector.

16. An air gap is not enough.

17. Almost all browsers can be de-anonymized.

18. Using WiFi without a VPN tunnel leaves you open to a bunch of attacks.

19. Most operating systems are either vulnerable or pre-compromised with respect to privacy by their creator.

20. Most browsers leak data to creators and third parties.

Clearly you could list quite a few more.

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Anonymous Coward

"3. If it has a microphone, it may be listening."

If it has a speaker - it may be using that as a microphone.

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21. Your secret master key escrow backdoored encryption will be compromised. Don't worry though, it'll only be all encrypted information that's at risk.

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22. Writing things on the backs of envelopes is fairly secure. If you are a physician, it is 99% secure. Only a pharmacist will be able to decrypt it.

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Unhappy

"16. An air gap is not enough."

Comment from security source in "Zero days."

"There is no such thing as an air gap."

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"If it has a speaker - it may be using that as a microphone."

Or an accelerometer.

Or a pressure sensor. Which might be described as an altimeter.

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Um, seems unlikely...

A moving coil speaker being used as a microphone only registers pressure waves, within its frequency response. To be sure it's can't tell the difference between high frequency acceleration that's both changing direction 180 degrees very rapidly and is also axial to the speaker coil, but that I would argue is a very rare situation. No use for integrating acceleration to give speed and integrating that to give position - apart from anything else, it lacks two necessary axes.

As a side issue, while a speaker *can* be used as a microphone, the usual setup in a digital audio system is microphone -> preamp -> ADC -> digits -> DAC -> amplifier -> speaker. The whole point of the microphone idea is that you need access to the speaker wires where the microphone goes in. Unless the whole of the audio interface industry for PCs (and generic systems: phones, TVs, IoT crap etc) has been designed with an undocumented link from the post-amp back to the preamp, it seems difficult to assume that this is a likely option.

Which is not to say that it's not impossible, but I suspect that it needs either global interference with the chipsets, or one-off specialist adaptation (e.g. four resistors or so adding, and some code changes).

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Anonymous Coward

Why not just sum it up as, "If someone wants it badly enough, neither God, Man, nor the Devil will save you. Don't trust anyone, not even yourself (you could be under subconscious compulsion). Either just go on living with no secrets or kill yourself."?

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This post has been deleted by its author

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Re: Spy agency spies and gives IT the Full Monty Spam Spam Spam Python

Hi, Bandikoto,

But who and/or what individually benefits is always the money shot question to be answered for clarity of purpose and transparency of covert and clandestine mission, for surely all common or garden spies/semi-autonomous agents and professional Walter Mitty types always follow orders and report to others.

Is the answer in the clue that has one following the money to identify the base raw source of current woes and future tribulations, or are you likely to find heavenly hosts and the holy grail which rewards with bounty that know no bounds?

Be they both one and the same at all times and a curse that has no rhyme or reason to exist, other than to torment the ignorant masses for the enrichment of an arrogant few with systems easily crashed with news of secrets and news of new secrets yet to come?

Questions, questions, questions …… and all have answers if you have a fervent desire and rabid need to know. And how strange that so little is asked of vital matters in favour of delivering viral opinions for media to plug as hard enough fact to be spread as news rather than proclaim as just the work of penny dreadful fiction and fantasist spam for the masses which just truly benefits a troubled and troublesome few, who be not a few chosen.

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Tinfoil Hat or Human Nature?

For many years before Snowden I've been predicting this. The usual response was to label me a conspiracy-freak crazy and dismiss me with "why would the government want to spy on my phone/web surfing/e-mail/TV/etc.?"

My answer was simple. Because They Can. Add in a profit or means to control others and it becomes inevitable and imminent. There is always one or a few who will do anything, no matter how onerous or horrible. If ten thousand people recoil in horror before a prospective action, the ten thousand and first will happily do it. You won't sell phone-hacking software to oppressive governments? Okay, but Cellebrite will.

So moving on, apply this simple question: can it be done? If the answer is Yes, someone is already doing it. Wikileaks et. al. only provide confirmation.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Tinfoil Hat or Human Nature?

"The usual response was to label me a conspiracy-freak crazy and dismiss me"

Those who exhibit such a response may find themselves on the wrong side of natural selection before long.

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Facepalm

Re: Tinfoil Hat or Human Nature?

To be sure, the usual response still is to label people a conspiracy-freak crazy - not sure whether people simply haven't heard of a specific leak (trust me, still plenty would go "huh?" if asked who Snowden is...), are they shell-shocked into numbness and denial by the deluge of leaks of late, or simply bury their heads into the sand with the attitude that nobody they know ever suffered any direct consequence of any of this so it clearly doesn't matter. But regardless of which of these they go with, in my experience people outside IT _still_ call anyone crazy who wastes even a second of their time with any such "nonsense" *.

* I'm still utterly stumped trying to explain to anyone why I prefer not using phonebook-slurping malware like WhatsApp and its ilk. "I'm using it and I'm fine, you freak!"

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WTF?

Re: Tinfoil Hat or Human Nature?

"The usual response was to label me a conspiracy-freak crazy and dismiss me"

Even better, those that dismissed you a few years ago, now say "You knew it all along. Why are you complaining now? Get over it!"

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Anonymous Coward

How do they pay for it all?

I like paying taxes in this fascist State!

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Anonymous Coward

What's next? These corporations are already in bed with them giving them access? Could this be to throw people off the truth? Are they already doing it?

I await with anticipation wearing my obligatory tin foil hat and a pair of y-fronts eating a scotch egg.

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If a nation-state agency wants you --

-- then they will get you.

To me, naive fule that I are, it seems that running a write-protected thumb-drive OS configured to use a VPN into TOR -- of course using a no-JavaScript browser, Disconnect or similar plug-in, etc -- might be current best practice for staying unnoticed. (Going from your ISP into a VPN is less attention-getting than going directly to TOR, I believe.)

(No, I don't mean all the time, just when you want privacy for whatever reason.)

But if you make yourself interesting to a nation-state agency, then your privacy becomes much more fragile. Again, IMHO. So in my playbook, as it currently stands, the prime directive is do not be interesting in the first place.

No, I do not like the idea of the CIA (NSA, et al) capturing my regular surfing. But my web use is pretty much in the middle of the Internet bell curve, I think. Nothing to see there, quite boring really. If I were to wish to browse to more attention-catching sites, then I might use a more secure and anonymous system.

But of course that's all just talk on my part. I do not merely seem boring, I really am boring.

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Re: If a nation-state agency wants you --

> do not be interesting in the first place.

So your argument is that your obscurity provides your security. Let me know how that works out for you....

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Re: @ Adam1

"So your argument is that your obscurity provides your security."

Only sorta. And not very sorta at that.

If I were relying on obscurity I would not bother with a read-only OS like TAILS or TENS or Kodachi -- that's one step toward not getting hacked. If I were relying on obscurity, I would not bother with VPN+TOR+privacy plugins -- those are steps toward maintaining anonymity.

My point is, if you become interesting to the big boys, then they will go as far as they need to go. Your home may have been your castle in 1920, but nowadays they will break in and mod your PC for you while you are out quaffing a cold one. If that's what they think they need to do. And of course they have many, many other options before the physical break-in.

Wear a mask. But when you need to take the mask off -- and you will, often -- that's when you must be boring and obscure.

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