back to article US Marines seek a few supposedly good men ... who leaked naked pics of a few good women

The US Marine Corps is investigating how compromising photos of some of its female members came to be shared on Facebook and Google Drive by fellow marines. In January, a closed Facebook group called Marines United was plastered with photos of partially clothed or naked female members of the Corps, along with their names, …

  1. Aqua Marina Silver badge

    Probably not politically correct of me to say this, but one of my female friends was forbidden (as much as she could be) by her dad from following his footsteps in a career in the army, because (in his words) the female soldiers were treated as beds by the men, and that most of the women didn't mind this. He put it down to the training having a confidence boosting effect on both sexes, where there was no shame felt by what they got up to, until people started getting caught out when they went too far.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I would add that during my stint in the military, I found it a strange parallel universe where the rules of the outside world don't apply. I also felt this notion was actively encouraged by the system in order to brainwash the troops into following orders.

    For instance, it's the only place I've been where shouting was considered polite behavior.

  3. Phil.T.Tipp

    And running towards the sounds of chaos, with the concomitant risk to mind and body is rewarded. Snowflakes and other beta-boys need not apply. Women in combat units are a social construct, and this will not end well.

  4. Big John Silver badge

    > "I also felt this notion was actively encouraged by the system in order to brainwash the troops into following orders."

    You do realize the US Military is all-volunteer? I suppose you were in some other military against your will?

  5. Mark 85 Silver badge

    The catch here is that this is or at one time was "conduct unbecoming". Back then, if I wanted a photo of a WM I had to ask permission first, but that was in the film days before smartphones and all they can do.

    I've met more than a few WM's who are just as bad-ass as any man in combat. But that was a long time ago. I've heard that the "new" group (since about 2000) are tougher, better trained, better mindset. But that's just a subjective opinion.

    I am finding this kind of thing rather appalling in this day and age but given the "entitlement" mentality of the younger people, it's not surprising. Dishonorable discharge should be the minimum punishment.

  6. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    >For instance, it's the only place I've been where shouting was considered polite behavior.

    To be fair it's also one of the few places where you get promoted for killing people (unlike medical school or air-traffic control)

  7. vir Silver badge

    Blame Millennials...

    Chalking this kind of thing up to "the 'entitlement' mentality of the younger people" is laughable. As if this exact same thing wouldn't have happened if camera phones were around 75 years ago, when Eleanor Roosevelt said that Marines had "the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals".

    Unfortunately, this isn't a case of "kids these days" as much as it is "boys will be boys". Not that I condone this behavior but, as someone who has sat through hours and hours and hours of military sexual conduct "don't rape people" training, I can say that there will always be some sleazebag who needs to find out the hard way that this kind of thing is unacceptable.

  8. Truckle The Uncivil

    @Big John

    People often volunteer for things not understanding what they are volunteering for.

    The army needs to turn civilians into soldiers. Soldiers must do things not in their own interest even to the point of suicidal actions. And they must do this instantly on command. There has to be exceptionally strong group association. These things are not natural, normal behaviour, they are against instincts. To enable the making of a soldier much of the civilian must be discarded. Individuality must be reduced by uniforms, uniform grooming, working in groups etc. and much more. The militaries of the world have long evolved systems of conditioning and team building.

    Making a soldier _is_ brainwashing. It is not an insult. Whether that is good or bad depends on your point of view and place in history.

    But an effective military needs well conditioned (trained) soldiers.

  9. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

    "I am finding this kind of thing rather appalling in this day and age but given the "entitlement" mentality of the younger people, it's not surprising. Dishonorable discharge should be the minimum punishment."

    I note from the photo that the women wear different hats to the men. Anyone know why that is? Is there an actual practical reason or is it just that women are treated differently? This question applies to pretty much all uniformed services, not specifically just that photo of marines.

  10. DanceMan

    > "I also felt this notion was actively encouraged by the system in order to brainwash the troops into following orders."

    >>You do realize the US Military is all-volunteer? I suppose you were in some other military against your will?

    I too have gleaned that a large component of conventional military training has the objective of getting troops to follow orders. This has nothing to do with whether troops are volunteers or conscripts. It has to do with getting a bunch of individuals to function as a commandable unit..

  11. Phil.T.Tipp

    Marine Dress Regs here:

    http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/Publications/MCO%20P1020.34G%20W%20CH%201-5.pdf

    Perhaps a serving crayon-eatin shitlord can enlighten you further.

    Inside view of this hilarious photo-sharing malarkey here:

    https://www.facebook.com/UntiedStatusMarinCrops/?hc_ref=PAGES_TIMELINE&fref=nf

  12. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    For instance, it's the only place I've been where shouting was considered polite behavior.

    Not really, you clearly have not worked for a large Chinese networking vendor.

  13. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    You do realize the US Military is all-volunteer?

    Any military does brainwashing, regardless is it volunteer or not.

  14. Smooth Newt Silver badge
    Meh

    Different hats

    I note from the photo that the women wear different hats to the men. Anyone know why that is? Is there an actual practical reason or is it just that women are treated differently? This question applies to pretty much all uniformed services, not specifically just that photo of marines.

    I believe the men aren't permitted to wear bras either, whilst the women are generally obliged to.

    Although it is now an unfashionable idea, I haven't quite managed to cast off the old-fashioned opinion that men and women are not physically and psychologically identical.

  15. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    Women in combat units are a social construct,

    If it was a couple of decades back you could have told this to some of the surviving Night Witches or their colleagues from the 586 or 587 USSR aviation regiments.

    Actually you can try repeating this today. Try telling it to this "social construct": https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/18/putin-honours-syria-veterans-wider-russian-involvement

    Just tell us when you are going to do it so we can get around to watch the show and call the ambulance for whatever remains of you towards the end.

  16. Triggerfish

    @ Phil.T.Tipp

    Women in combat units are a social construct, and this will not end well.

    Ever thought some of them might be as good in combat as the men? And before you go all red pill rant, may I suggest you check out some of the women in fought in SOE in WW2, they were fucking nails.

  17. Smooth Newt Silver badge
    Happy

    Re: I've met more than a few WM's who are just as bad-ass as any man

    The problem with mixed combat units is that it is impossible to remove sex from the minds of young men and women. Young men inevitably compete for young women, which gives rise to jealousies and changed personal priorities. The Viet Cong were very tough soldiers who fought in mixed sex units. They continued to operate effectively despite colossal casualties, and eventually forced the US to pull out of Vietnam in a humiliating defeat. However, I am reminded that the most common reason for defections amongst the Viet Cong was jealousy amongst the men within mixed sex units. Given the choice, I think military units composed of a single sex - male or female - will function better than mixed sex ones.

  18. Shaha Alam

    "...where there was no shame felt by what they got up to, until people started getting caught out when they went too far."

    i wonder how far this describes the attitude towards 'enemy combatants'... let alone innocent bystanders.

  19. Shaha Alam

    Re: Different hats

    " I haven't quite managed to cast off the old-fashioned opinion that men and women are not physically and psychologically identical."

    with respect to the question and headwear in general, you can consider them to be physiologically identical.

    as in, there's no physiological reason the hats should be different. psychological... well only if you want everyone to know that this is a woman and this is a man and they must not wear the same head gear because of ${REASONS}.

  20. Smooth Newt Silver badge
    Happy

    Re: Different hats

    well only if you want everyone to know that this is a woman and this is a man and they must not wear the same head gear because of ${REASONS}.

    The ${REASONS} are psychological. The function of the hat, and the rest of that uniform, is to make the wearer look smart and efficient. It isn't just the hat that is different - the woman's shirt has a softer cut, the buttons are on the left and it lacks breast pockets, and she doesn't have microscopically short hair.

    If they had the same dress uniform (and hair cut), you would either have very masculine looking women, or rather effeminate looking men, or some androgynous mix. This would look weird rather than smart and efficient. Most men really do want to look masculine, and most women want to look feminine, so erasing the differences in this uniform would also make recruitment and retention even harder.

  21. Tom Paine Silver badge

    You don't realise that inculcating immediate, unquestioning obedience to orders is the most fundamental part of basic training IRRESPECTIVE of whether they're conscripts or volunteers? What the hell do you think all that shouting's for, improving the Sgt Major's vocal projection?

  22. Big John Silver badge

    > "Any military does brainwashing"

    I prefer to call it team-building. However, once you have made it thru the training, it's a different matter. basic training is made very difficult for a reason, and that is to weed out those incapable of subsuming themselves into a fighting unit. That sort of person may have fine qualities, but in combat they are dangerous to themselves and everyone around them.

    I went thru the process myself and witnessed some who were not happy with their decision to volunteer. Once their regret became clear they were simply allowed to drop out of basic training, no prob. The US Military spends a lot of bucks training each soldier, and they really don't want to waste it on someone who isn't suitable, for whatever reason.

  23. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    Re: Different hats

    " I haven't quite managed to cast off the old-fashioned opinion that men and women are not physically and psychologically identical."

    They are not. But that does not mean women are inferior. They are actually significantly more psychologically stable under prolonged stress conditions.

    Ask any military pilot if he can fly 960 missions WITHOUT a parachute doing precision bombing from point blank range - turn your engine off, glide in until you can see the white of Horst's eyes and put a small (but deadly) 50kg right in-between his eyeballs. Now do it again. And again. And again. 800+ times. Night, after night, after night. From the first day of the war to the last. The WW2 record on the allied side if memory serves me right is 960 combat sorties and is held by a woman. Not a man.

    While a male may show one-off extreme valor, if he has to do it on a repeat basis like this he will end up in a lunatic asylum (or be married to the bottle like my mom's adoptive father who was one of the handful of submarines who fought and survived the entire war from the first day to the last).

  24. Stevie Silver badge

    Re: Different hats

    Heads still roundish all round though, yes?

  25. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    In fact if you had an all volunteer army and discovered that they were all ready and happy to stick bayonets into people when told to do so - you might have more grounds for concern

  26. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

    Thomas Brennan

    The new heroes for our times; people who actually expect the authorities to behave properly and do something to try to make it happen. And get death threats as a result.

  27. TReko

    Common sense?

    Not politically correct, but perhaps don't take and share naked selfies in the first place.

    Once you send a digital file to someone else, you lose control of it.

  28. ShelLuser

    @Treko

    Although I fully agree with your comment there's not enough info in the article to draw those conclusions here. It's the one thing I'm confused about as well: did these women pose themselves (and allowed to be photographed) or (which I'm suspecting): did someone sneak up on them and took pictures while they were (partially) undressed?

    I think the latter, especially considering the comment about the woman who stated that "he could smell my perfume". That makes me believe that people snook up on them and took those pictures without any consent or approval.

  29. DougS Silver badge

    Re: @Treko

    When I saw the story on the news here, they said some were taken by/for the women and leaked to the site, others were taken without their knowledge.

    Saying the women bear some of the blame because they took the photos and should have known it was possible someone could have shared them outside their control is like saying you bear some of the blame if you killed by a drunk driver, because you were out driving at 2am when you should have known there are always a few drunks on the road.

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Common sense?

    Surely the only solution to the problem of naked selfies, is to remove the taboo about nudity!

    Once nudity is not taboo, it is no longer sexual, and the urge to take naked photos will subside...

    So I suggest mixed dorms, communal mixed showers, mixed heads...

    Then a warning that any sexual assault on a fellow soldier will be dealt with sternly...

  31. dbtx Bronze badge

    Re: Common sense?

    An unspoken but deeply ingrained understanding would probably go much farther than any warning, but our society is far too advanced for such nonsense.

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: @Treko

    "Saying the women bear some of the blame because they took the photos and should have known it was possible someone could have shared them outside their control is like saying you bear some of the blame if you killed by a drunk driver, because you were out driving at 2am when you should have known there are always a few drunks on the road."

    True, but I don't drive in the fast lane on the freeway on weekend or holiday nights, as someone who gets on the freeway going the wrong direction thinks that is the slow lane, and head-on collisions with closing speeds in excess of 110 MPH do not end well. I'm willing to take reasonable precautions to avoid a disastrous result. I grew up in Southern California back in the 80's, and this scenario seemed to happen once or twice each weekend and more frequently on holidays, and it stuck with me.

    Or as I told my teenage daughter, she can mitigate the risk of certain things by controlling her own behavior. Not having nude pictures of yourself anywhere prevents them from leaking. Not letting someone you aren't 100% sure you can trust from now through forever have access to them is the next best option.

  33. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: @Treko

    I love the smell of perfume in the morning, it smells like victory!

    Any woman that has the guts to get to the front line and stay there gets my support.

  34. Marketing Hack Silver badge

    That's degrading...

    Not overly happy about women in combat units, but you need those women on your side when you are shot or under fire. If for no other reason than self-preservation, don't insult them!

  35. Big John Silver badge

    Re: That's degrading...

    Women may be deadlier than the male, but they can't pick up a fallen buddy and run with, or even drag, him/her back to safety. The fact is the physical standards of the Marines had to be lowered to allow women in. Some might suggest such carrying capacity is not really needed, but they would be wrong. In real combat the need for real muscle can and will occur frequently.

  36. Adrian 4 Silver badge

    Re: That's degrading...

    Lots of attributes are needed in combat. Strength is only one of them. It makes sense to have a diverse force rather than those selected for a very small number of abilities. A force made up only of obedient heavily-built shallow-thinking men will be very good at taking a small fortress by frontal assault. This was excellent in medieval times, when all the targets were small fortresses. It might not always be best now.

  37. This post has been deleted by its author

  38. Phil.T.Tipp

    Re: That's degrading...

    You clearly know absolutely nothing about what you pecked out on your keyboard there, champ. Leave it to the big boys. There is no strength in 'diversity', and least of all in a tight combat unit.

  39. Cereberus

    Re: That's degrading...

    I think you need to look up the term bigot and apply it to yourself. The definition in part for a bigot is 'a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.'

    The comment about "force made up of obedient heavily built...." was obviously an example of having the right people for the job. No reference was made to all men being brutes or that there can't be smart and heavily built men.

    I am not sure but I think you would want to fight as an Avenger or a G.I. Joe where everybody has every attribute perfected and work as part of a super team. Real life combat doesn't work like that. An effective team has the skills required for the job they are doing. This can include heavily built shallow thinkers who just follow orders, slightly built shallow thinkers who can get in close because they can get behind cover better, and both builds but thinkers who can assess and adapt to the situation on the fly.

    All have a role to play in meeting the objective and all have a different skill set. Fighting house to house can often be better achieved by smaller people as they are generally faster and less noticeable so more likely to get in and take out the bad guy without being seen - but then I have seen some very fast 'big guys' as well.

    No fire team is made up of a group of people who all have every skill, it is made up of people who have a range of skills, who train together and know each others strengths and weaknesses and above all trust each other to support each other.

  40. Mystic Megabyte Silver badge
    Pirate

    Re: That's degrading...

    309 kills!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyudmila_Pavlichenko

  41. Gordon Pryra

    But when I am in the doo-doo

    And how often is the average El Reg reader under hostile fire?

  42. Geronimo!

    Re: That's degrading...

    Having spent 6 years as a Dutch infantry soldier, receiving a lot of "coaching" from our special forces colleagues, to me -as to many of my male colleagues- the acceptance of female colleagues was one of the best decisions made.

    Yes, they (sometimes ... not always!) lacked our physical strength, but they often proved a better mental strength than many of my male colleagues (Including myself ever so often) during long confinements, manoeuvres or generally stressful situations (days, if not weeks, in a 2mx4m trench tends to get to your nerves somehow).

    Not to mention an absolute improvement in culture, since most men do behave more civilised in the company of a woman: Nobody getting out his best parts in public to remove "the cheese" and more things like that.

    In combat, you are a part of a team, where everybody has its tasks. Yes, it's more likely that the female in an armoured infantry group will be gunner, driver or commander and she' probably not be the one dragging MAG, ammo or the AT weapons. But she might be the medic, recon or pioneer.

    And to be honest: If I had gotten shot, I'd rather have a female medic next to me, than the bulky MG colleague.

    She might not be able lift me up and drag me 20 miles to base (How many men can actually do that? Ever tried to run with a 80kg person, next to 30-40kg of equipment (Twice!) on your back?), but she'll be able to stop the bleeding, thus improving my chances to get out alive, at a time where support is near.

  43. Marketing Hack Silver badge

    Re: That's degrading...

    We have a lot of people responding to this part of the thread who obviously know somewhere between Jack and squat about infantry combat. I agree that a side with well qualified women has an advantage because you have a larger draft pool. But that means women who can carry heavy weapons, ammo, pull wounded male comrades to safety, dig foxholes or rearange cover quickly.

    But the idea that there is some kind of diversity prize in close combat and that diversity by itself is a good is going to get people killed. There's no trophy for second place in combat.

    Now women pilots or women in roles where strength is less of an issue are great.

  44. Mark 65 Silver badge

    Re: But when I am in the doo-doo

    And how often is the average El Reg reader under hostile fire?

    Seemingly every time they take to the keyboard to express an opposing viewpoint these days - these forums are a dangerous place, I only frequent them in daylight.

  45. Florida1920 Silver badge
    Joke

    Diet deficiency

    They're obviously not putting saltpeter in the potatoes anymore.

  46. David 132 Silver badge

    Re: Diet deficiency

    They're obviously not putting saltpeter in the potatoes anymore.

    I always heard it phrased as putting "bromide in the tea". My first thought is that saltpeter in the potatoes, far from suppressing amorous urges, would instead result in a corps of men who would explode upon hiccuping. Sort of like the reputed effects of Wow-Wow sauce.

  47. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

    Re: Diet deficiency - "I always heard it phrased as putting "bromide in the tea". "

    Potassium bromide is indeed supposed to have something of a libido-reducing effect. (In the days of wet photography, it was also used to slow the action of developer and prevent fogging. I still have a bottle somewhere. However...) Spike Milligan commented that the only way to use potassium bromide to reduce the sexual urges of the average British soldier was to put it in a shell and fire it at the affected parts.

  48. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    Naked WOMEN

    Would never happen in the Royal Marines (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4475034.stm)

  49. Ryan Clark

    Re: Naked WOMEN

    Love the comment on there

    "Why are they naked, for goodness' sake?"

    From my brother, who is in the Navy, marines seem to have an obsession with being naked and try to be as often as they can.

  50. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    Re: Naked WOMEN

    Well they do hang around with sailors rather a lot

Page:

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2018