back to article UK Snoopers' Charter gagging order drafted for London Internet Exchange directors

London Internet Exchange (LINX) – Europe's major internet traffic hub – faces a growing backlash over changes to its rules that would gag its directors applying secret government orders to monitor networks, under Britain's Investigatory Powers Act. LINX members – hundreds of internet companies – have been given less than two …

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Surely it would be 'safer' to have no such provision.

Then any attempt to infiltrate the network would require the security services to ask ALL the members, something they are unlikely to want to do.

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Black Helicopters

Probably why the security services have "convinced" whoever wrote that provision to do so.

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Facepalm

Recent LINX exchange power outages

Has everyone forgotten about the recent power outages that knocked out London DC's that had LINX kit in that affected a log of U.K. Internet connectivity?

Those outages in supposedly resilient locations seemed suspicious at the time. Would have been perfect cover for enacting these proposals.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/09/20/high_voltage_fault_blamed_for_gs2_outage/

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Recent LINX exchange power outages

"Those outages in supposedly resilient locations seemed suspicious at the time."

And before that, if I remember rightly there was a string of outages in undersea cables in various parts of the world.

You ain't seen nothin yet.

"I met a devil-May-care

She took my heart away

She said, I've had it comin' to me

But I wanted it that way

I think that any law is good law

So I took what I could get, mmh

Oooh, oooh she looked at me with big brown eyes

And said,

You ain't seen nothin' yet

B-b-b-baby, you just ain't seen n-n-nothin' yet

Here's something that you never gonna forget

B-b-b-baby, you just ain't seen n-n-nothin' yet

Nothin' yet, you ain't been around

That's what they told me ..."

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Surely it would be 'safer' to have no such provision.

Yes, right up until all the Directors are arrested and prosecuted.

As I read the piece. LINX are in a cleft stick; break the law, or lose all some of their customers.

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Facepalm

"specialist legal advice" was "general... often verbal or by email... not really in a form we can share with a wider audience"

Yes, I'd always rely on advice like that. No, no qualms at all.

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Anonymous Coward

That special verbal legal advice that goes a bit like this?

Man of May: "Nice life you have, it would be unfortunate if your home computer was seized and foudn to be full of nasty kiddie pr0n"

LINX Bod: "I have, and never have had, anything dubious on my system"

Man of May: "You will have lots within 2 minutes of me phoning an associate of mine"

LINX bod: "Looks like I'm pwned"

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LINX bod: "Looks like I'm pwned" "Nothing to what you'll have on yours"

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Sounds like the sort of neutral quality advice that justified bombing Iraq and contributing to the rise of ISIS, etc.

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Windows

I have been hearing that some people call me paranoid.

Deep state? Nope, doesn't exist. It's an illusion, your opinion is corrosive of our democracy.

Pick up that can.

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LINX bod: "Looks like I'm pwned" "Nothing to what you'll have on yours"

Unfortunately, the gentleman not speaking this line has the call of whether probable cause exists for a search of another person's computer. The spoken gentleman does not.

Why can't the L be changed to mean Limerick. Or even Los Angeles. Or don't change anything and move the whole op to blooming London, Ontario, Canada. Although my personal favourite for an organization that no longer works but has too much baggage, is for all of good will merely to start a new one.

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Anonymous Coward

Unfortunately, the gentleman not speaking this line has the call of whether probable cause exists for a search of another person's computer.

Indeed. Not just that but the gentleman not speaking that line can talk to people who *make* all those things appear on the computer. Legally without recourse, almost impossible to prove, impossible to debate in a court and with little obvious oversight.

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Why can't the L be changed to mean Limerick.

Geography. You could move the home of the organisation but not the kit it runs.

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Didn't this behavior collapse the Empire?

I am not completely familiar with British history, but somehow I recall hearing that a blind overly-nationalistic belief was the primary flaw in the later empire which eventually led to its collapse.

It seems to me that as with the Americans, Britain seems to believe that simply having been squeezed from a particular vagina in a particular place justifies an unjustified belief in ones superiority.

Patriotism is a disgusting illness. It leads to some sort of lethargic behavior that allows a person to blindly believe they have no need to try to succeed since simply claiming membership in a birthright is a satisfactory alternative.

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Re: Didn't this behavior collapse the Empire?

As much as I agree with you, public opinion at the moment seems to be that we (Britain) have more to teach "Johnny Foreigner" than we have to learn from him.

The arguments for and against globalisation are for another discussion, however one very good thing about it (IMO) is that we get a sense of perspective from how others see us, and the view with regards to the IPA does not cast us in a favourable light.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Didn't this behavior collapse the Empire?

a blind overly-nationalistic belief was the primary flaw in the later empire which eventually led to its collapse.

Not really. Overly-nationalistic beliefs certainly led to the creation & expansion of the empire, but its "collapse", which in many cases was more of a strategic withdrawal before getting our arses kicked, was really more due to an eventual growing awareness that overly-nationalistic beliefs were harmful.

Britain seems to believe that simply having been squeezed from a particular vagina in a particular place justifies an unjustified belief in ones superiority.

I think you're about 150 years behind the times. These days no-one cares whose vagina you popped out of, or even if it belonged to your father's wife.

There is a tendency among our elected leaders to put something into the wrong vaginas from time to time, but that doesn't usually do them much good either.

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Re: Didn't this behavior collapse the Empire?

"a blind overly-nationalistic belief"

That would be a blind, over-nationalistic belief in standing up to Hitler in 1939 (which is when WWII started, not in 1941). It left us broke.

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Re: Didn't this behavior collapse the Empire?

This has nothing to do with patriotism and everything to do with power.

The scum who kicked the political class in the groin by voting leave must be controlled, mass surveillance of everybody at home and abroad will achieve this.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Didn't this behavior collapse the Empire?

"These days no-one cares whose vagina you popped out of, or even if it belonged to your father's wife."

Oh, yes, that's true. That's why the establishment are such a representative cross section of society.

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Re: Didn't this behavior collapse the Empire?

"This has nothing to do with patriotism and everything to do with power."

True but then you go off-course.

May loved the referendum result. It's brought her to power and given her the opportunity to do as much as she can to evade European jurisdiction which would limit her ability to implement the Home Office's policy on surveillance. Did you, pre-referendum, see her giving any more than the minimum support to Remain that would be required to keep her job on the assumption that Remain would win? Hard times for everyone else post-Brext? Why should she care, she's got the foreman's job at last.

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Re: Didn't this behavior collapse the Empire?

Hard times for everyone else post-Brext? Why should she care, she's got the foreman's job at last.

To find out, plot UK opinion polling for the current party of government against growth, wages growth, and unemployment.

Controversy alert: IMHO, in the 5-10 year range, whatever the implementation details, the UK will take a one-off economic hit followed by a systemic drop in growth compared to the parallel universe where Remain won. The predictable consequence will be a swing in popularity against the high profile Brexit backers (hopefully including that bore down the pub who's always banging on about unelected bureaucrats and bent bananas.) The electoral consequences are hard to predict due to one-off factors like Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition being fronted by Krusty the Klown, the Lib Dems having lost 9/10 of their MPs in 2015, the SNP factor, etc, but even if the Tories scrape another majority, May will be out on her arse and forever tagged as The Brexit PM.

I could be completely wrong about all that; we'll see...

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Re: Didn't this behavior collapse the Empire?

"There is a tendency among our elected leaders to put something into the wrong vaginaspigs mouths from time to time, but that doesn't usually do them much good either."

FTFY - allegedly.

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Re: Didn't this behavior collapse the Empire?

>I am not completely familiar with British history, but somehow I recall hearing that a blind overly-nationalistic belief was the primary flaw in the later empire which eventually led to its collapse.

Er, no.

WWI bankrupted the empire.

From the British point of view, neither of them were in the cause of patriotism. Actually, it was mostly to help out other nations not fortunate enough to have a strong border with their neighbours.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Didn't this behavior collapse the Empire?

We can only hope it collapses Nanny May's empire...

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Joke

> The Home Office did not respond for comment at the time of writing.

It was probably gagged.

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Re: > The Home Office did not respond for comment at the time of writing.

Sad to say, but despite the joke icon, you're probably closer to the truth than anyone in officialdom would care to admit.

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Windows

Re: > The Home Office did not respond for comment at the time of writing.

Patriotism is a disgusting illness.

So you say. Sounds pretty dogmatic and touchy-feely though.

But what has all of this to do with patriotism in the first place?

Unless you want to awkwardly defend "open border" policy, but that is another problem.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: > The Home Office did not respond for comment at the time of writing.

The OP probably meant nationalism, not patriotism. Few people would want foreign tourists to be allowed to vote in UK elections, and the very fact that so many people are concerned about what is being done to English law shows that they do care what happens to/in their own country.

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Cheers Tory voters - United kingdom = worst kingdom

If you voted Tory you voted for this regardless if you knew it or not.

http://www.itpro.co.uk/government-it-strategy/24471/general-election-2015-how-parties-tech-policies-shape-up

Yes Labour were shits also, but they did actually back down from the utter worst planned laws.

The Tories are seeing it through.

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Stop

Re: Cheers Tory voters - United kingdom = worst kingdom

depends ...

|C.S. Lewis had a view:

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

So it's a question of Labour tyranny, or Tory Tyranny ?

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Re: Cheers Tory voters - United kingdom = worst kingdom

The mass surveillance system will never sleep.

(I'm no Labour fan either..)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Cheers Tory voters - United kingdom = worst kingdom

"C.S. Lewis had a view:"

An interesting quote that seems at odds with his being a staunch Anglican convert. There one finds the epitome of the tyrannical "do gooder" who knows what's best for everyone else.

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Re: Cheers Tory voters - United kingdom = worst kingdom

"If you voted Tory you voted for this regardless if you knew it or not."

I think it's been HO policy for a long time and they usually manage to have Home Secs go native. In general common sense in the rest of the govt held them back. We now have the misfortune to have an ex-Home Sec as PM, first time in a long time. It could be worse - think what happened to the economy last time we had an ex-Chancellor as PM.

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Gimp

I think it's been HO policy for a long time and they usually manage to have Home Secs go native.

should read

"I think it's been the plan of a cabal of unelected data fetishists mostly based in the HO policy for a long time and they usually manage to have Home Secs brainwashed into believing their apocalyptic, unargued and unconformable BS"

May was what the 9th of them to spout the line?

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Re: Cheers Tory voters - United kingdom = worst kingdom

@ - 'There one finds the epitome of the tyrannical "do gooder"'

Nothing like a bit of blind prejudice to cause distraction, and to sow fake facts.

Anglicans, in my now extensive experience, have no monopoly on 'do gooding'. Those kind of people crop up anywhere and everywhere, regardless of belief/unbelief; they are usually people who are rather fragile and brittle, and try to hide it by imposing themselves on others.

Try reading a bit more of Lewis. There will always be stuff to disagree with in his writing (which he would heartily approve of), but he has some pretty solid ideas about what makes life worth living for everyone. Try 'The Four Loves', 'The Problem of Pain', maybe 'The Great Divorce', and 'Till We Have Faces' is rather special. Plus the tri-planetary series is always worth a read, likewise 'The Screwtape Latters'.

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Re: Cheers Tory voters - United kingdom = worst kingdom

...a staunch Anglican convert. There one finds the epitome of the tyrannical "do gooder" who knows what's best for everyone else.

Slightly harsh judgement, perhaps? I'm not aware that the CoE are especially more dogmatic or morally prescriptive compared to other Christian sects. Some of the Baptist traditions were particularly censorious. And when you widen the field beyond UK Christianity...

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Re: Cheers Tory voters - United kingdom = worst kingdom

Exactly. See also ID cards.With the front door approach going down in flames several times under various governments, the Plan B is well advanced: make passports de facto ID cards. An acquaintance of mine from my secret double existence in the Low Life is being forced to get a bank account for his benefit payments. Guess what? Getting a bank account means getting a passport. You already need one to work legally. How long until people are required to produce a passport on request by a police officer, I wonder?

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Re: Cheers Tory voters - United kingdom = worst kingdom

"You already need one to work legally.""

No, you don't. I've not had a valid passport in over 20 years.

In that time I've changed jobs 4 times and had/have various DBS and security clearances applied for and approved, including in the last 12 months.

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Angel

Re: Cheers Tory voters - United kingdom = worst kingdom

"C.S. Lewis had a view:"

An interesting quote that seems at odds with his being a staunch Anglican convert. There one finds the epitome of the tyrannical "do gooder" who knows what's best for everyone else.

While he may have attended at the local Anglican, I believe CS Lewis was "old-school Christian", as in took his views from the Bible. Lots (and I mean lots of stuff in there about not judging others, being "in but not of" this world, staying out of other's business, not gossiping (yes I know, just by commenting at El Reg I probably fail those two badly), and letting others make their own choices. Also stuff about "showing your faith by how you live" rather than "showing your faith by telling everyone else how they should live".

Unfortunately, many who claim "Christ" know little of what He taught :( Many more try to hide their own fears by vocally pointing the finger at other people (yes I know, I fail there all too often!)

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WTF?

Re: Cheers Tory voters - United kingdom = worst kingdom

Guess what? Getting a bank account means getting a passport. You already need one to work legally. How long until people are required to produce a passport on request by a police officer, I wonder?

You're kidding I hope? No? Damn! Here in NZ you really don't need anything to be able to work legally, it's generally considered up to you to be honest with your boss and up to you to follow the various tax etc laws, though more places are asking about convictions. You don't need a bank account to work but do for receiving benefits.

Passports aren't cheap if you're poor, and it would be a bit of an issue for anyone to need them to get a bank account. Due to government influence valid security concerns, you do need proof of address eg a couple of bills or some other ID when applying for a bank account, which has it's own issues - for a start I can pretty quickly scan a document, change name and address, and print something that looks original.

But here we do not need a passport for anything other than over seas travel. For now.

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Re: Cheers Tory voters - United kingdom = worst kingdom

You need a passport to rent a property as well.

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Re: Cheers Tory voters - United kingdom = worst kingdom

It could be worse - think what happened to the economy last time we had an ex-Chancellor as PM.

You won't see me defending Brown on many points, but one thing is for certain: the global economic crash was caused by the exposure of the long-running subprime mortgage racket in the US in 2007 and the subsequent collapse of Lehman Brothers in 2008, not by the economic policies of Gordon Brown. Blair, Brown and Mandelson were responsible for 'light-touch' regulation which didn't help, but do you really think a putative Tory chancellor at the turn of the millennium would have been insisting that London-based banks maintain higher reserves and undergo more rigorous stress tests? The decisions of the past nine years have been bad enough, with the banks not required to meet new regulations until 2019, and will that survive Brexit? Already we are seeing the moron Trump reduce regulations on the US investment banks, setting up the conditions necessary for the next tranche of financial scams.

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Re: Cheers Tory voters - United kingdom = worst kingdom

"You need a passport to rent a property as well."

No, you don't. The only time you need a passport is if you are travelling out of the country. If you have one, then it can be useful as an ID if required, but other forms of ID are acceptable. Some private landlords may demand a passport as ID but that's usually because they don't understand the system or feel they'd rather not spend the time and money to check other forms of ID.

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Re: Cheers Tory voters - United kingdom = worst kingdom

"You already need one to work legally."

In my entire working life I only needed a passport for a job once. That was a contract which involved going on site in Italy to install S/W.

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Re: Cheers Tory voters - United kingdom = worst kingdom

"the global economic crash was caused by the exposure of the long-running subprime mortgage racket in the US in 2007 and the subsequent collapse of Lehman Brothers in 2008, not by the economic policies of Gordon Brown."

Which in turn was driven by low interest rates which made mortgages appear affordable. An Brown was a part of the low interest movement. His giving the BoE responsibility for interest rates with an inflation target that ignored housing costs led to a housing bubble here, leading to the problems with Northern Rock, HBOS/Lloyds & RBS. Instead of being responding to the bubble by changing tack he, as chancellor, went about lecturing Germany el al about how they should adopt UK/US policy on interest rates. He might not have been able to check what the US was doing but he could have minimised the impact here.

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Re: Cheers Tory voters - United kingdom = worst kingdom

>You already need one to work legally.

Yes. My work record goes back nearly 50 years. Now, my employers (for 10 years) are harrassing me for sight of my passport.

What a nasty little country we have become. I hardly recognise it (I certainly feel no loyalty to it).

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Re: Cheers Tory voters - United kingdom = worst kingdom

"So it's a question of Labour tyranny, or Tory Tyranny ?"

It's a *government* tyranny.

It doesn't matter who you vote for, they always win.

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Anonymous Coward

STASI Dead and Buried? Err...No!

Who says that the STASI was eliminated when Germany re-united on October 3 1990? We're finding out that it is alive and well in Cheltenham under a new name -- GCHQ.

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Unhappy

Re: STASI Dead and Buried? Err...No!

An up-vote for you sir/madam, I do not usually up-vote an Anonymous.

This however I am very sad to say, is so damed right.

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