back to article Trump's new telecoms chief bins broadband subsidies for the poor

The Trump administration's propensity for bold and sudden action reached the United States Federal Communications Commission on Friday, as commissioner Mignon Clyburn and the Commission's chair Ajit Pai clashed over an end-of-week “news dump” that has profound policy implications. The FCC dropped a dozen announcements on …

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Mushroom

Prevent an informed electorate

By limiting their access to information.

Especially the poor, as poverty breeds socialism, and they're the very last people Donald Dump wants to have an informed opinion. Obviously.

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Big Brother

Re: Prevent an informed electorate

Yep... can't have people have access to REAL facts...

Only state-controlled mainstream-media 'alternative facts'...

(Or lies as some people tend to call them...)

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Re: Prevent an informed electorate

Only statebig business-controlled mainstream-media 'alternative facts'...

TFIFY.

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Re: Prevent an informed electorate

You can get your lies from the NYT every sngle day.

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Re: Prevent an informed electorate

I seem to remember a TED talk which noted that increased education does not lead to more data-based reasoning. Apparently, educated people are better able to seek out information which confirms their already-held biases and to convince themselves of the biases of their peer-groups.

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Re: Prevent an informed electorate

That would explain a lot, P. Lee. Then again, my perception is likely biased. Please share a link to that talk should you find it, I would love to share it among my more educated friends.

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Re: Prevent an informed electorate

Is there any trend then for people being likely or unlikely to control bias? Or is it simply inherent to the human condition?

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Mushroom

Re: Prevent an informed electorate

more like ELIMINATE EXISTING SOCIALIST PROGRAMS that RE-DISTRIBUTE HARD-EARNED WEALTH from the middle class to the TAKERS in society!

There. I said it. And I'm *SICK* of having to pay *EXTRA* for my LAND-LINE because of "programs" like "lifeline". *I* never benefit from that. Why should ANYONE ELSE "deserve" it?

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Trollface

Re: Prevent an informed electorate

You forgot the joke icon.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Prevent an informed electorate

"There. I said it. And I'm *SICK* of having to pay *EXTRA* for my LAND-LINE because of "programs" like "lifeline". *I* never benefit from that. Why should ANYONE ELSE "deserve" it?"

Because if you depend on food that comes from rural farms, which are the most likely to be the beneficiaries of these kinds of things, then you might want to reconsider since the Internet helps farmers to optimize crop yields, or would you rather be paying more at the market for the fresh goods you need everyday?

The thing you have to remember is that we live in a SOCIETY. And in a society, people are connected to each other even if we don't realize it. Choice made even in solitude can have effects that ripple through other people.

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@Destroy All Monsters -- Re: Prevent an informed electorate

You can get your lies from the NYT every sngle day.

Given that it's politics and any politician who's lips are moving is lying.. go right to the source... Think about the Bowling Green Massacre, "approval polls are wrong" among others. What I'm seeing is the ferocity of them defending themselves. Yeah... the MSM is full of shit but then, so is every politician on either side of the aisle.

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Mushroom

Re: Prevent an informed electorate

Surely not! Isn't NYT a Murdoch paper? Nothing but the truth there folks - Honestly - Would he lie to you?

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Idiots elected an idiot.

But it gets worse, he's both an idiot and a bully.

You've fucked your country because you elected a narrow minded incompetent racist idiot bully.

Go USA!!!!!!!

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Paris Hilton

Re: Idiots elected an idiot.

> Idiots elected an idiot.

> Go USA!!!!!!!

Are you affiliated with antifa? The level of foul-moutheness and general inability at coherence would say yes.

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Re: Idiots elected an idiot.

The message was clear as day. Which part did you not understand?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Idiots elected an idiot.

Trump isn't an idiot, but he is a bully. But the USA has been acting the bully with regards to it's foreign policy and it's belief that its jurisdiction extends everywhere for decades, so I guess there's no real change there.

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Re: Idiots elected an idiot.

Not an idiot? What makes you say that? He's not a successful businessman, if daddy hadn't been rich, he certainly wouldn't have been. He has the attention span of a goldfish. Nope, he's an idiot.

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FAIL

"Sweet" Pai already starting to earn that non exec VP post.

"Regulation"

He's heard of it.

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Re: "Sweet" Pai already starting to earn that non exec VP post.

Yeah, it seems pointless having commissioners at all if the new chairmen, who lost a previous vote on that very topic while a commissioner but as chairman can just steamroller it through.

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Paris Hilton

That's not nice!

But I don't really care. Iran is far more a danger to sudden trumpificative excesses.

These providers include a minority-owned business

Probably owned by white, non-muslim, non-gay, non-transgender males?

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Re: That's not nice!

And that's like arguing that compared to swallowing cyanide, smoking crack is positively good for you.

Doesn't matter if someone is a bigger douche than Trump, a douche is still a douche.

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Re: That's not nice!

Yes it does matter. Because if there's someone worse than Trump, then the preference would be to stick to the evil you know. Transmetropolitan springs to mind. No one realized there was someone worse than the Beast until the Smiler came along. This seems to echo that situation pretty well: people voting against the known evil and now we have a worse evil.

IOW, there's a douche, and then there's an enema.

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Trollface

Re: That's not nice!

>> Probably owned by white, non-muslim, non-gay, non-transgender males?

With red necks?

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Anonymous Coward

This is an exercise

in how America really works....

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The dead hand of Obama lives on...

Here we have a classic Democrat freebie courtesy of the US taxpayers. This time tho it's also one of Obama's many parting gifts to Trump, and they are all designed to keep on giving. To the media I mean. Yes, I'm talking to you, Chirgwin.

Each of these last second EO's and giveaways was created in the knowledge that they would probably be rescinded by Trump, and each such reversal would then be painted by the media as terribly mean spirited of Trump. Think 'ammunition stockpile.'

I can imagine the media meeting with Obama after the election:

"Mr. President, it sure would be useful if you could come up with a few giveaways to the poor that Trump will probably oppose as President. Then we can rip him a new one every time he "takes away" something from the poor. Whadda ya say, Barack?"

"I say, how many do you need?"

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Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

Funny thing is, a lot of right wingers like yourself harp on about wanting a healthy society, and strong community, but you can't have either without a little bit of socialism, and communism.

Hell, even the bloke the most ardent of you claim to worship taught socialism, or do you think he somehow spun a profit from the feeding of the masses? Didn't John the Baptist also teach "Let he who hath two shirts give one to he who hath none?"

You treat the bible like a EULA, you just scroll to the bottom and click "I Agree", without actually reading it.

I wouldn't have a problem with Republitards, or Christians (not to mention Demotwats and Greenies), is you all weren't a bunch of fucking hypocrites.

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Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

You need to listen to the Sermon on the Mount. And understand it - yes, I know, tough order.

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Re: created in the knowledge that they would probably be rescinded

This sounds like a game.

Reminds me of card games like Whist and Bridge where you can win a trick using what are known as "Trumps".

In Bridge if you have a "Balanced Hand" (note choice of terminology) you can defeat such antics by entering into a "No Trumps" contract.

(From what was being said in the run-up to the Election it sounds like Trump is partial to a game of Poke'r)

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LDS
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Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

Wasn't "Lifeline" program established by the Reagan Administration in 1985? With the rationale that to get a job you need to be reachable? No surprise Obama extended it to the Internet now most of that shifted to it today.

That's another example Trump is not Reagan. Just like the Fool says to King Lear (another who listened to his daughters too much) " Thou shouldst not have been old before thou hadst been wise"

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Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

"but you can't have either without a little bit of socialism, and communism."

You have no idea what 'socialism' or 'communism' mean, do you?

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Megaphone

Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

"you can't have either without a little bit of socialism, and communism."

*WRONG*

"A rising tide lifts all boats" - Ronald Reagan

In other words, you do not LIFT UP the poor by TAKING AWAY from EVERYONE ELSE and *GIVING* them something they did *NOT* *EARN*. You LIFT UP the poor by LIFTING UP EVERYONE SIMULTANEOUSLY!

All socialism and communism can do is *TAKE* *THINGS* *AWAY*, and after excising a small percentage for those "oh, so, wonderful" BUREAUCRATS in the middle, "give away" with SUCH "compassion" and "caring" to those who SHOULD! BE! EARNING! THEIR! OWN! MONEY! TO! BUY! THINGS! but for some reason are *ADDICTED* to the *PUBLIC* *TEET* from the soon-to-be-delapidated-SOW of PUBLIC PORK PROGRAMS!

There. I said it. because not ALL of us can become GREECE and EXTRACT WEALTH from every OTHER member of the EU, like they DESERVE it or something, because of BAD SOCIALIST POLICY. *SOME* of us are *STUCK* *PAYING* *FOR* *ALL* *OF* *THAT*!!!

(actually, that would be MOST, because all socialism can do is DRAG EVERYONE DOWN to benefit a VERY SMALL MINORITY OF PEOPLE who are generally ADDICTED to WELFARE and won't lift THEMSELVES up!)

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Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

I think you are confusing socialism with corporatism.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

Bob, I wish a rising tide would destroy your shift key.

But no, we've had several decades of trickle-down economics and I think the empirical evidence is in. Without some societal encouragement money does not flow like water, but gathers in increasingly big blobs like mercury.

Just like Christians should really read the Bible, rather than just taking what suits them, free market economists should really read Adam Smith. I've had an actual member of the Adam Smith institute accuse me of quoting Marx when I quoted him Adam Smith --- and he wasn't even embarrassed when I pointed out his mistake.

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Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

"A rising tide lifts all boats" - Ronald Reagan

I do not know where to start here as some people really need their meds, but I will try:

1. First of all, I love that you quote all good Ronnie The Raygun. The reason USA is such deep sh*t is that he f*** up the tax and borrowing policy to bring the tide and the demise of "communism". From there on nobody could balance the budget because of the lack of tax receipts combined with superweapon mania needs.

2. I agree with you on LIFTing everyone simultaneously. The best way to do it is to provide the means for everyone to be lifted up. MEAN No 1. Free Education to a level sufficient to start coming out of the swamp (whatever it is today). MEAN No 2. Free Healthcare. These are "enablers" so that everyone can fulfill their potential. They are not handouts and give-aways. They are not PUBLIC PORK programs either. The weapons budget is PUBLIC pork, it serves no other means at the moment. Education and Healthcare are not - they are LIFTers. The other LIFT-er is equal taxation policy. Earning enough money to employ an accountant should not provide you with any tax benefits. Otherwise, you do not lift anyone, but the ones who can afford to cheat the system. If I can read your argument correctly (a bit difficult with all the foam flying out of your mouth), you are advocating neither.

3. Greece. Greece economy was as f*cked fraud during a fascist regime (the Black Colonel Hunta) as when it became part of the Eu. In fact, the f*cked fraud started there and at that point it was extracting wealth from UK and then USA (you can pull the post-war 1940-es, 50-es and 60-es budgets out of a library to have a look how much it was sucking from us). What followed later was a logical conclusion when it was allowed to join the Eu without any of the strings which were attached to the Romanian and Bulgarian membership. It just continued sucking what it started sucking from us on the day Churchill reinstated fascist rule there in 1944.

Disclaimer - I have lived on both sides of the Iron curtain and I generally travel a lot so I have seen both sides, their downsides and upsides. Based on that I can say for sure - in the USA, once you are down and out that is it. There is no going up. It is exactly as in http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/alicecooper/lostinamerica.html

Also, you need to learn a bit about "Socialism" and "Communism" (quotes needed) in the fav Ronnie The Ray Gun scarecrow form. There was little or nothing socialist or communist about what was to the East of the wall. It was a theocracy with the party assigned the role of the Almighty. Just the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost were replaced by Marx, Lenin and Engels. The only way to accommodate anything starting from the 3rd volume of Das Capital (do not even get me started on Lenin's syphilitic drivel) was to follow literally the posters which were saying guess what:"We believe in the bright communist future". We believe. Period. This is also why they were so vicious on religion by the way - theocracies do not tolerate competition.

So coming back to socialism, most idiots fuming at the mouth about it have not lived in a socialist country. I suggest they go and live for a few years in Scandinavia, Germany, Austria or even modern Eastern Europe. They are closer to the definitions of socialism from the early works of the "Father" and "The Holy Ghost" as well as the early-20th century Social Democrats than any of the East-of-Iron curtain theocracies. In fact, they are about 90% there today. Most of them do not have the TIT of WELFARE scarecrow problem either - that problem exists when you are "once on Welfare, forever on Welfare" - as in USA and UK and exist exactly because it's just Welfare, there is not enough money spent on LIFTers and Equalizers (education, etc). There you may end up on welfare and be back in the society in a few months time (or a couple of years if you decide to take an education). In USA - not an effing chance in hell. Exactly because of fuming at the mouth idiots who are incapable of understanding that education, healthcare, etc are not pork, not welfare tit - they are a social mobility enabler.

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Mushroom

Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

"Free education" and "Free healthcare" (described as 'means' to allegedly 'lift everyone up') are NEVER *FREE* because *SOMEONE* has to pay the teacher's salary, the doctor's salary, the cost of maintaining the buildings and keeping the lights on, yotta yotta yotta...

And WHERE does that money come from? Right. You just TAX "the rich" (which means "the middle class", actually). Or let's just say it straight: TAX the PRODUCERS in society, and GIVE to the MOOCHERS and LOOTERS.

Wouldn't it be BETTER of people just EARN enough to PAY for things, the way it's ALWAYS been up to the point that SOCIALISM was thought up? Otherwise, WHERE is the motivation to EARN?

"I'll just get whatever for free, so now I'll sit on my ass most of the time and spend the REST of my hours standing in bread lines"

(that's a short description of COMMUNIST SOVIET RUSSIA - both sides of the iron curtain, you should've SEEN that happen, right?)

Obviously those NOT STUDYING HISTORY have FAILED to LEARN from it!

(and revisionism that denigrates "trickle down" aka SUPPLY SIDE economics, via FAKE NEWS and FAKE "FACTS" is just, plain, stupid)

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Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

""A rising tide lifts all boats" - Ronald Reagan"

Quite right. I get all my economic ideas from ex-film stars.

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DJO
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Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

Free education" and "Free healthcare" (described as 'means' to allegedly 'lift everyone up') are NEVER *FREE* because *SOMEONE* has to pay

Now I'll put this in short words you might be able to understand:

Well educated people tend to have better jobs than poorly educated people, better jobs tend to pay more than crap jobs, better paid jobholders pay more tax and make a greater contribution to society.

Sick people are a drain, healthy people a benefit, poor or non-existent healthcare increases the number of non-productive people.

The conclusion from this is that money spent on both education and healthcare benefit society in both the short and long terms. Cutting budgets or restricting access to education or healthcare are 100% counter-productive and only cause damage to the parts of society least able to help themselves.

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Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

Stop shouting at us. Please! You are beginning to look like an ignorant fool.

On the question if subsidies, what are you thoughts on the subsidies granted to the NFL for the Super Bowl last night? Or those granted to the oil companies? Or the subsidies the coal extractors enjoy?

I dare say a fair few fol would like to know.

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LDS
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Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

The issue is USA once had rich people like Andrew Carnegie, not it got Trump... you can't blame a student if he or she wants to study but his/her parents are poor, even if they are poor because they are lazy idiots - and not all of them are. When you lose your job because some top exec has kept increasing his pay endlessly in the past fifty years, and the decides to embellish the balance sheet before selling his stock options after years of bad management, by firing thousand of people, who is the culprit?

If you don't give poor people any chance to get a decent job and then pay for themselves (including taxes), you're just dooming them to perpetual slavery - and then you will start to pay them subsidies to keep them quiet and avoid revolts.... what is better than? Free education and healthcare, or subsidies to keep the "proles" calm?

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Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

"If you don't give poor people any chance to get a decent job and then pay for themselves (including taxes), you're just dooming them to perpetual slavery - and then you will start to pay them subsidies to keep them quiet and avoid revolts.... what is better than? Free education and healthcare, or subsidies to keep the "proles" calm?"

The hardcore would propose the third option: let them starve, and if they rise up, nuke 'em. After all, who needs all the excess baggage? Close the walled garden!

PS. Not my personal sentiment.

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Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

You realize the lifeline program started under Reagan...... that fine example of helping the less fortunate in the US.

the last part was sarcasm for those who don't understand

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Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

And WHERE does that money come from? Right. You just TAX "the rich" (which means "the middle class", actually)

And rightfully so. To put things into perspective, there has been only a couple of periods (usually only a few months each) in my life since the age of 14 when I earned less than 5 times the national average. In different countries too. So let me spell it for you - I would LIKE to be taxed if the TAX will result in SOCIAL STABILITY. I am middle class and as a member of the middle class I pay my taxes (I wish the upper classes paid them too).

If you put a lid on a fraction of the society and lock them up in perennial "no-future" and let them stew without _ANY_ safety valve it will BLOW UP. It may not be in my face, it may be in my kid's face. Or their grandkids. I do not want them to hang off the lampposts.

The only way for this to happen is to _ACCEPT_ some socialism values - namely providing a safety net for the members of society which fall through into Down Below and provide them with assistance to be able to climb out of it. The key is "climb out". AKA: "I do not want to survive, I want to live!". This funnily enough is equal to a choice of free education or free education. The tax they will pay after they have climbed out will very happily pay for it. We should consider it an investment (ditto as someone pointed out - the free healthcare).

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Thumb Up

Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

As someone once said, "I like paying taxes, with them I buy civilization."

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

"The only way for this to happen is to _ACCEPT_ some socialism values - namely providing a safety net for the members of society which fall through into Down Below and provide them with assistance to be able to climb out of it. The key is "climb out". AKA: "I do not want to survive, I want to live!". This funnily enough is equal to a choice of free education or free education. The tax they will pay after they have climbed out will very happily pay for it. We should consider it an investment (ditto as someone pointed out - the free healthcare)."

Until the one job opening pops up and it's you versus him. That's the big problem with socialism: it doesn't stack well against reality where the game is zero sum and there's always fewer opportunities than people. All socialism does at that point is overload the demand, which as an economist would tell you makes things harder on everyone by depressing the return on labor. It may be brutal, but sometimes you just have to consider if the lives are worth saving now only to make them suffer later at the chokepoints.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

"As someone once said, "I like paying taxes, with them I buy civilization.""

To which another would reply, "Civilization is overrated. Why doesn't any other animal on the planet do it?"

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FAIL

Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

Name another animal that dominates the planet the way humans do. Civilisation is the tool which has allowed us to do that.

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Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

I pointed out how Obama weaponized his EOs during the transition to paint Trump as the bad guy, and the only responses totally ducked that charge and tried to defend Obama by basically saying free handouts are good things so shut up.

Sorry, but my point remains unopposed: That subheadline was a gratuitous smear by Chirgwin, enabled by a righteous feeling of indignation over Trump's ending of one of the free giveaways Obama saddled Trump with. Or if Chirgwin didn't do it, his editor did, same thing to my mind.

And all according to Obama's plan. And now most of you wanna-be socialist chumps are behaving exactly as planned as well. It's really very depressing to watch. Well, at least it only works in venues that are overcrowded with true believers.

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Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

Until the one job opening pops up and it's you versus him.

First of all, you need to spend some time at the real bottom. The REALLY DEEP ONE. So you learn what differentiates a Human from a C*nt (as in "personality found in celebrities and politicians). You are definitely in the second category. Sure, there are people who survive by stamping into a bloody pulp with bones sticking out of it the hands of others trying to climb up onto their lifeboat. They usually end up in a gutter with a 9 inch blade between their shoulders and nobody testifying who did it. It is well deserved too.

Second, you are summing your zero sum over a very narrow time interval and you have the assumption that the resources do not move in/out and are constant. Both are incorrect. I have also done the zero sum and I have accounted in the "value" me or my kids hanging off the lamp-posts. I can of course account it differently, for example accounting for it the way Germans do. They subsidize the hell out of the tech education resulting in jobs STAYING locally and not going out. In your case, there will be a point where your job will simply leave. It may in fact be exactly that - that there will be _NOBODY_ to hire in your location if you are being run over by a bus or nobody to hire if more than one pair of hands is needed.

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Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

"Wouldn't it be BETTER of people just EARN enough to PAY for things, the way it's ALWAYS been up to the point that SOCIALISM was thought up? Otherwise, WHERE is the motivation to EARN?"

How far back do you want to go? Should all roads be made toll roads? Maybe have a coin slot and turnstile at the end of your property to pay the owner of your street before you get onto it?

Are you willing to pay back the cost of your education, at full market rate, from nursery school on up, as well as that of your children, if any, so that you can be out from under any "socialist" obligations? Because I will guarantee you that your parents and you paid less in taxes for your education than it actually cost.

Garbage collection...? There's "socialism" for you! Why should someone be paid at the public "teet" (sic) to empty trash cans in public when people should just carry their trash home and pay someone to haul it away to their private (unregulated) dump? And if I don't WANT to pay someone to haul my garbage away, then I shouldn't be FORCED to, because it's on MY PROPERTY, isn't it?

Firefighters? Police? All the protection you can afford? Back in ancient Rome, unscrupulous real-estate speculators would rush to the site of a house fire with a gang of "firefighters" and offer to buy the burning property for a ruinously low sum, all while their bully-boys were keeping anyone else from extinguishing the blaze -- not uncommonly leading to pitched street battles between the staffs of rival speculators while their bosses were "negotiating". If the owner didn't sell, they would let the property burn to the ground. If he did sell, they would extinguish the blaze but the previous owner was still ruined financially. It wasn't until the Vigiles (serving predominantly as firefighters but acting as a police force, as well) were established by the State (*gasp* SOCIALISM!!) that this practice was stopped (or, at least, significantly reduced).

...Or is it just anything that's changed since your grandparents were born that must be kept in The Free Market (TM)?

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Re: The dead hand of Obama lives on...

"'A rising tide lifts all boats' - Ronald Reagan"

The problem is that -- as with many aphorisms -- many people who use them reflexively have them exactly backwards.

In this case, supply-siders see it as meaning "If the rich get richer, wealth will trickle down and everyone will benefit."

What it REALLY means is "If you help the mass to rise, even the ones NOT part of that mass will be lifted as well."

There's a reason why no one ever said "A rising yacht pulls the tide behind it."

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