back to article 'Upset' Linus Torvalds gets sweary and gets results

Linus Torvalds has unleashed a little ripe language on the Linux Kernel Mailing List, and quickly got results for having done so. “This piece-of-shit branch has obviously never been even compile-tested”, Torvalds wrote after receiving a pull request for some fixes to the KVM hypervisor that it was hoped might make it into …

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  1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge
    Coat

    If you can't stand the heat, get out of the sauna.

    Mine's the robe with the little bottle containing a preparation of herbs suspended in water for vaporization on hot stones in a sauna in the pocket. Yes, sometimes online translators are a bit weird.

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge
      Trollface

      Seconded

      If you do not have one, build one. Well worth it. Most useful 2 grand I ever spent on the garden.

      Are you going to contemplate there on your next patch or just provide yourself with heat resistance training is up to you.

    2. fajensen Silver badge

      Gin? Your gonna pour Gin on the sauna oven??

      1. agatum
        Pint

        Gin? Your gonna pour Gin on the sauna oven??

        For the love of insert_deity_here do not pour gin on the sauna oven.

        Just spill a bit of beer instead, gives a lovely scent. Significant other may shout at you but it's worth it.

  2. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Coat

    Torvald's Tongue Back To Normal - XMas May Proceed

    Things were a bit weird lately, what with Torvalds not appearing in the headlines for robustly tongue-lashing someone, but now things are back to normal and that eerie feeling of something missing has gone away.

    Merry XMas to all !

    1. Solmyr ibn Wali Barad

      Re: Torvald's Tongue Back To Normal - XMas May Proceed

      A programmer once quipped: Forget C, forget Java. Swearing is the #1 language for coders all over the world.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Torvald's Tongue Back To Normal - XMas May Proceed

        I was accused of being "unprofessional" once after someone heard me describing some code as a load of crap. What they failed to realise, it was my code I was describing as a pile of poo.

      2. boltar Silver badge

        Re: Torvald's Tongue Back To Normal - XMas May Proceed

        "A programmer once quipped: Forget C, forget Java. Swearing is the #1 language for coders all over the world."

        If only. These days younger coders seem to learn all the buzzword bullshit before they even load to code properly. I'd swear AT them except some know-nothing arts grad HR wonk would probably hand me my P45.

        Can they contextualise a mindshare initiative and maximise collaborative cross media convergence (aka posting vacuous crap on social meeja)? You betcha!

        Can they explain the performance difference between a vector and a list wrt reads/writes/deletes and when to use which or write some basic working sockets code? Forget it.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Torvald's Tongue Back To Normal - XMas May Proceed

          to be fair, noone writes sockets code anymore, gramps.

          1. Aladdin Sane Silver badge

            Re: Torvald's Tongue Back To Normal - XMas May Proceed

            He's making a database

            He's sorting it twice

            SELECT * from contacts WHERE behaviour = 'nice'

            SQL Clause is coming to town

          2. boltar Silver badge

            Re: Torvald's Tongue Back To Normal - XMas May Proceed

            "to be fair, noone writes sockets code anymore, gramps."

            Really? I guess you think all the networking code that is the basis of the internet and lets you post messages on here and download all that porn when your mum isn't looking is all created by moonbeams and unicorns then?

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Get over yourself

          I've interviewed graduate students who considered such knowledge warm-up interview questions. I've also interviewed "software engineers" with 25 years experience who couldn't tell a keyboard from their own arse. Stop generalizing and dismissing a younger generation.

    2. LDS Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: Torvald's Tongue Back To Normal - XMas May Proceed

      Just hope Santa doesn't use Linus approach to compile his bad/good list... after all they come more or less from the same area of the world...

      1. P. Lee Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Torvald's Tongue Back To Normal - XMas May Proceed

        >Just hope Santa doesn't use Linus approach to compile his bad/good list... after all they come more or less from the same area of the world...

        At least Santa's list compiles....

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Torvald's Tongue Back To Normal - XMas May Proceed

          "At least Santa's list compiles"

          or Santa compiles his list?

        2. LDS Silver badge

          Re: Torvald's Tongue Back To Normal - XMas May Proceed

          "Santa list compiles"

          Just because he implemented ElvOps....

        3. Herby Silver badge

          Re: Torvald's Tongue Back To Normal - XMas May Proceed

          "At least Santa's list compiles...."

          Are you sure. He needs to "check it twice!". Maybe the first pass had errors, so he needed to try a second run.

        4. macjules Silver badge

          Re: Torvald's Tongue Back To Normal - XMas May Proceed

          At least Santa checks his code twice, not like certain nameless Linux devs it would seem.

  3. jake Silver badge

    Wouldn't YOU be fucking pissed off ...

    ... if a so-called "professional" tried to pass off junk as working code, and expected you to put YOUR name on it? Frankly, given some of the errors I've seen on the KML, I'd say Linus shows extreme restraint!

    1. Valeyard
      Trollface

      Re: Wouldn't YOU be fucking pissed off ...

      ... if a so-called "professional" tried to pass off junk as working code, and expected you to put YOUR name on it?

      yeah, i worked in QA

    2. Hans 1 Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: Wouldn't YOU be fucking pissed off ...

      Especially when you waste YOUR time trying to figure out what is going on, imagine Linus, is it me, my check-out, or why does this not compile ... Seriously, it did not even compile ... that is what is known as a blind check-in ... locally, that is fine, work in progress blahblah ... but you must test stuff before you submit it to the central repo or Linux Lord. For the non-devs, "test" does not mean "compile" .... "compile" is the action required to get a working program that you then "test" against the "bugs your changes are supposed to fix" or "features your changes are supposed to introduce".

      I think what happened here was the devs wanted to hurry ...don't, ever, rush code out the door, it will be immensely time-costly to iron all the bugs out. Been there, done that, AND had to clean up afterwards.

      BTW, that faulty branch deserved all the French that was thrown at it, again, it did not even compile ...

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Wouldn't YOU be fucking pissed off ...

        you then "test" against the "bugs your changes are supposed to fix"

        Not just that. Also test against the bugs previous changes are supposed to have fixed. Just in case you reverted some of the previous fixes.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Wouldn't YOU be fucking pissed off ...

          I wonder what would've happened, though, if the reply came, "But it did compile clean. With two different compilers on two different machines. See, here are the logs to prove it, too." What would be the reaction?

        2. John Tserkezis

          Re: Wouldn't YOU be fucking pissed off ...

          "Also test against the bugs previous changes are supposed to have fixed. Just in case you reverted some of the previous fixes."

          Like the type of checking that needs to happen with VLC Media Player?

          And if you have the audacity to complain about features that are broken, or new features that aren't there (but still appear in the menu), they'll tell you to fuck off and write your own code to fix it.

          Classy.

    3. oiseau Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: Wouldn't YOU be fucking pissed off ...

      "... if a so-called "professional" tried to pass off junk as working code, and expected you to put YOUR name on it?"

      Yes, 1000 times yes.

      I think that unacceptable work such as this on behalf of the coders deserves Torvalds lashing out at them.

      You want to be on the Linux devs/coders list?

      Get it right or leave.

      Cheers.

    4. Nolveys Silver badge

      Re: Wouldn't YOU be fucking pissed off ...

      if a so-called "professional" tried to pass off junk as working code, and expected you to put YOUR name on it?

      Hell no, you don't tell them when you put their name on your shitty code. You let them find out about it much later, when it has become much more difficult to figure out where the shitty code came from in the first place.

    5. Conor Turton

      Re: Wouldn't YOU be fucking pissed off ...

      They're not professionals though, they're mostly volunteers doing it in their own free time at their own expense, something which tosser Torvalds seems to forget.

      If Torvalds wants Linux to go the way that many of the packages included in distros are going where the contributors just call it a day and it no longer gets developed then he is going the right way to achieve that.

      Slagging off those who do the vast majority of the legwork that keeps your little vanity project alive is a sure way to see it die.

      1. Richard 12 Silver badge

        Re: Wouldn't YOU be fucking pissed off ...

        Many patches are originally submitted by volunteers - however they do not directly send anything to Linus, their work is always routed via the appropriate paid team.

        Those teams are supposed to bring all that together, test it and then send their completed module to Linus for final review.

        They are paid to do that by various organisations - some charitable, some commercial - so this is their day job.

  4. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    I wonder about the devs

    So they want to contribute to the Linux kernel.

    But they don't want to do the work necessary to make sure their contributions work.

    Why are they bothering?

    1. fajensen Silver badge

      Re: I wonder about the devs

      This is a millennial thing: Millennials want the outcome, they don't care much about the effort required to produce the outcome they want. They got that from "our leadership", management, footballers and politicians.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I wonder about the devs

        >They got that from "our leadership", management, footballers and politicians.

        Don't forget state schools and teachers, you win a prize and praise even if you came last rather than an arse kicking for being crap; that's where the problem really starts.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I wonder about the devs

          Depends on the state and always on the teachers, any particular state you are referring to.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: I wonder about the devs

            @AC >>Depends on the state.....any particular state you are referring to.

            Here's a clue:

            theregister.co.uk

            1. davenewman

              Re: I wonder about the devs

              Education is devolved. So again, which state?

        2. DJ Smiley

          Re: I wonder about the devs

          I'm laughing hard, because basically we've gone from blaming the 'kids' to blaming the adults who teach them, who are mainly... us.

          1. boltar Silver badge

            Re: I wonder about the devs

            "the adults who teach them, who are mainly... us."

            Umm, no. I'm not a teacher, are you? Teaching is a profession, not something people do in their spare time. And this profession and its union have been infiltrated in the last few decades by a load of aggitating Trots who care less about the kids and more about taking a political stance and winning ideological battles.

            1. druck

              Re: I wonder about the devs

              @blotar: My wife is a teacher and agrees 100% with you. Life is very difficult if you are one of the few non-trots that haven't left in disgust at way the profession is going.

            2. Gio Ciampa

              Re: I wonder about the devs

              " this profession and its union have been infiltrated in the last few decades by a load of aggitating Trots"

              As opposed to the media and our "leaders" - who are just as rabid on the other side of the spectrum...

            3. Tom 7 Silver badge

              Re: I wonder about the devs

              @boltar. Do not be silly. The easiest way for the Trotskyites to destroy the country is to get people to vote for governments that put people like Gove in charge of education.

              1. GrapeBunch Bronze badge

                Re: I wonder about the devs

                " easiest way for the Trotskyites to destroy the country is to get people to vote for governments that put people like Gove in charge of education."

                Comrade Lenin wrote something similar to Comrade Pankhurst. It is in the interest of the devs of dictatorship (e.g., of the proletariat) that democracy be seen to fail, in just about any way.

            4. Hollerithevo Silver badge

              Re: I wonder about the devs

              @Boltar, are you speaking from your own ideology or from actual facts? Do you know any teachers? D you know what they teach and how they teach it? Or are you just spouting?

              1. boltar Silver badge

                Re: I wonder about the devs

                "are you speaking from your own ideology or from actual facts? Do you know any teachers? D you know what they teach and how they teach it? Or are you just spouting?"

                My wife use to be an adult education teacher and a friends wife still teaches in a school. Good enough for you? The NUT are nothing more than a bunch of aging student style agitators dressed up as a union and because teaching is less attractive as a profession these days for a number of reasons (pay and lack of discipline in schools thanks to endless liberal policies which means you can't proscribe the little bastards in any effectve way any more), a lot of the people who gravitate towards it now are the ones who don't know any better (yet) and the ones who can't get a job in their field in business/industry because they're not good enough but do know how to spout a load of political rhetoric. And that doesn't mean I think this or previous governments should be let off the hook - none of them seemed to know when to leave well alone and just let the schools get on with it.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: I wonder about the devs (not quite on topic)

                  The NUTters (as I used to call them; an appropriate acronym) went on strike during the middle of my O levels back in 1986. It was so bad that I wasn't sure whether to turn up or not, so I did anyway. I sat all my exams and failed them rather miserably.

                  The disruption (and some complicity on my own part) destroyed my education for years as I couldn't get into college (grades weren't good enough) nor study anything further. Needless to say I didn't like most of the teachers and as for the kids, the less said the better. Computer Studies turned out to be a complete non starter. The computer room was robbed, a BBC Model A was stolen (as it was near the broken window) and a BBC B (£400 job) was left behind. :-| Now I'm a bitter middle aged man, and nothing surprises me in the way things have gone.

            5. cream wobbly

              Re: I wonder about the devs

              Most social learning -- particularly wrt effort and reward, which are what's being discussed here -- is at the hands of parents and other adults. We *are* all teachers. Stop being a whiny yob, unless that's what you want our society's children to become.

        3. boltar Silver badge

          Re: I wonder about the devs

          "you win a prize and praise even if you came last"

          There's no such thing as first or last anymore. Positioning is oppressive and facist and stunts the little darlings self esteem and ego.

          1. cream wobbly

            Re: I wonder about the devs

            This made me smile.

            If that's what you got from school, I pity you. If that's what you're *reading* about school, then shame on you for repeating the lie.

            The worst students don't get any prizes. The best students *AND* the students who improve the most over the year get the prizes. It's the achievement, and the improvement that are being rewarded. Sure, you can probably point out exceptions. Do it! But don't tar all schools and teachers with the same brush, because that just makes you another loudmouth with nothing to say, but saying it anyway, as loud as you can.

    2. ThomH Silver badge

      Re: I wonder about the devs

      They tested KVM host but didn't test KVM guest. So it's not true to say there was no effort, merely that the attempt was incomplete — this cuts to testing for regressions elsewhere in addition to whatever your headline issue is, I think. Maybe you're all better at your jobs than I am at mine but I find that slightly easier to forgive; though shouldn't continuous integration have caught the thing prior to human inspection?

  5. Rol Silver badge

    Linus needs to start looking for his replacement.

    His child, that he has so carefully nurtured, will always need a guardian, a knight in shining armour, who will attack the feeble-minded, behead the gormless and castrate the idiots for even daring to add their tuppence worth.

    Linux will go on to outlive its father, but will never stop growing. Never have the mind to resist unwarranted intrusion, blatant vandalism and monetising shenanigans. That is why Linus must root around to find a character worthy of succeeding him. A person who could be mentored in the fine art of kicking ass, and one who is readily accepted, and respected, as heir to the dynasty.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Linus needs to start looking for his replacement.

      Chuck Norris.

      1. Franco Silver badge

        Re: Linus needs to start looking for his replacement.

        Not gonna work, Chuck Norris can divide by 0 but Linux can't....

        Judging from Linus's email rants, Malcolm Tucker would be a good candidate though.

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