back to article Higher tech prices ARE here to stay. It's Mr Farage's new Britain

One of the UK’s biggest slingers of print services has warned customers it can no longer afford to fully soak up rising prices from printer hardware makers, which jumped after the EU referendum and now look like permanent mark-ups. Danwood has written to clients that have a service or print services agreement to inform them of …

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  1. Dr_N Silver badge

    Brexit means brexit.

    What is to explain?

    Things like "cost" and "a plan" are just buzzwords the liberal media elite bandy around to frustrate the declared will of the English people.

    Full brexit now, and damn the consequences!

    Did I say all of that right...?

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: Brexit means brexit.

      Things like "cost" and "a plan" are just buzzwords the liberal media elite bandy around to frustrate the declared will of the English people.

      Yes. And No.

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/10/brexit-must-be-fair-to-working-people-ed-miliband

      Ignore the Millipede and skip to paragraph 2. Quoting it here for those who have a graunidad allergy - this is based on a poll conducted in November:

      Polling of Brexit voters by the Open Britain campaign shows half are not prepared to be a penny worse off as a result of leaving the EU. That includes 59% in the north; 62% of Labour Leave voters; 46% of Conservative leavers; and even 39% of Ukip voters. Only one in 10 Brexit voters is prepared to lose more than £100 a month.

      So apparently, the English People actually want something which my Advanced Computer Science teacher in high school referred to in the prehistoric pre-political correctness days as: Have your penis in both hands and your soul in paradise at the same time. The more polite British version is: "Have your cake and eat it to".

      All I can do is quote the German finance minister: "Let's do a thought experiment. I have a cake, I eat the cake, do I still have the cake? Do not think so".

      1. Dr Stephen Jones

        Re: Brexit means brexit.

        The British voter looked at Europe, saw it was a massive mess, saw that it was impossible to get a better deal for the UK, and voted for sovereignty.

        This was a rational decision that prices in the uncertainty and short-term pain. The poll sponsored by Open Britain (a pro-EU campaign group) and cited in The Guardian (a pro-EU newspaper) was designed to produce the response it got. No surprise there.

        Only an idiot thinks leaving a superstate pain free. Most benefits are long-term, prices will fall as the Common Tariff no longer applies to the UK.

        Better a Brexit than a Le Pen or a Trump (thank God).

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Brexit means brexit.

          I would have thought that leaving a large trading bloc with its economies of scale and bargaining power would imply higher prices in the long term.

          1. Alan 43

            Re: Brexit means brexit.

            Not necessarily since the EU puts tariffs on many things from outside the EU

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Brexit means brexit.

            >economies of scale

            q.v. diseconomies of scale, in the interest of balance.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diseconomies_of_scale

        2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Brexit means brexit.

          "The British voter looked at Europe, saw it was a massive mess, saw that it was impossible to get a better deal for the UK, and voted for sovereignty.

          This was a rational decision that prices in the uncertainty and short-term pain."

          Do you really believe that that (a) most of the Leave voters priced in anything - which in some cases may well prove to be their jobs - and (b) the result of a long term change will be short-term?

          1. Dr Stephen Jones
            Happy

            Re: Brexit means brexit.

            "Do you really believe that that (a) most of the Leave voters priced in anything - which in some cases may well prove to be their jobs - and (b) the result of a long term change will be short-term?"

            Yes, because after six months of Remainers predicting catastrophe their beds, there is no buyer's remorse. We are leaving the EU. People are pleased to be taking back control, even it is less than they might ideally want.

            And a General Election would wipe out the Remain parties: Labour and LibDem.

            Remain supporters here really are beginning to sound like they need psychological help.

            1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

              Re: Brexit means brexit.

              "Yes, because after six months of Remainers predicting catastrophe their beds, there is no buyer's remorse. We are leaving the EU. People are pleased to be taking back control, even it is less than they might ideally want."

              You seem to have a very poor understanding of the time scales at work here. We're in what might be termed the phony war period.

              In case you haven't noticed we still don't have a definitive answer to the constitutional way to invoke Article 50. Amazingly the Leavers don't even seem to have thought about that essential preliminary. It doesn't bode well for the rest of their planning.

              Apart from that we're just seeing the obvious financial penalty of a devalued pound; it'll be some time before the inflationary effects of that work through. We're quite some way from finding what sort of pig is in the poke the Leavers have contrived to but for us.

              "And a General Election would wipe out the Remain parties: Labour and LibDem."

              Let's look at the timing. May plans to invoke Article 50 next year. It all becomes effective in 2019. By the time the next election is due there'll have been a year's experience. If it's been a hard Brexit we'll see corporations who have set up EU operations here starting to move them back into the EU and people will be losing their jobs*. If it's been a soft Brexit it will be becoming apparent that things are much as they were - still in the customs union, still with freedom of movement, still subject to the EU regulations etc, still paying something into the EU but with significantly less control. As the consequences start to dawn on the electorate I think it will be the Leave parties that get wiped out.

              *Yes, I know you're about to tell us about all the world-wide trade deals. Even if there are any of these that don't involve shafting us they'll be some way from delivering any visible benefits.

              1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

                Re: Brexit means brexit.

                "*Yes, I know you're about to tell us about all the world-wide trade deals"

                Perhaps the Indians will locate some call centres here?

              2. streaky Silver badge

                Re: Brexit means brexit.

                In case you haven't noticed we still don't have a definitive answer to the constitutional way to invoke Article 50

                We have a definitive answer, just waiting on supreme court to do it's job right and confirm that essential truth. It's a legal argument, some people who think they're smarter than they are think that invoking article 50 is the job of parliament because it affects people's rights. It's fundamentally legally flawed because invoking article 50 doesn't change a thing and fwiw parliament can't invoke article 50 even if it wants to. If it held a vote today and decided it wanted to and created a law it would have to ask the executive to do it because it can't. This stuff doesn't have to be complicated.

                FWIW on all the other nonsense in this thread - yes some of us leave voted that people probably don't get the actual situation but also we have no problem with people doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. I still think Starkey summed up the non-economics up best recently.

                1. John H Woods Silver badge

                  Re: Brexit means brexit.

                  "We have a definitive answer ... some people who think they're smarter than they are think that invoking article 50 is the job of parliament because it affects people's rights" --- streaky

                  If we're talking about people "who think they're smarter than they are" could I respectfully suggest that includes those who think their legal understanding exceeds that of the members of the UK Supreme Court?

                  1. streaky Silver badge

                    Re: Brexit means brexit.

                    could I respectfully suggest that includes those who think their legal understanding exceeds that of the members of the UK Supreme Court?

                    No for two reasons: firstly that we don't know what the supreme court thinks yet and secondly that I'm not entirely sure the government has put it so succinctly that it's easy to understand to them. They're going to have their for/against biases either way - they're fairly well documented but hopefully they can view the case on legalities rather than those.

                    I'm in a low wage job or unemployed. They can't come after me for the money, I haven't got any. Someone else will have to pay for this. Someone else will pay for this. No skin off my nose

                    That's interesting, I'm high wage employed working for an international company - difference is I understand the economics. There's no left or right wing case for continued membership which is why the centre ground is owned by brexiteers.

                    Apparently the young are so much smarter than people who have been round and round with the EU; or those of us who have worked for companies that have been munched up and asset stripped and all the jobs moved to Germany. There's many fundamental problems with the UK economy and the EU isn't the only one but it is the biggest elephant in the room and it's charging around breaking the tea service - then we're supposed to want to stay in because roaming charges and we don't have to get a visa (pretending for a second there won't be a visa-free travel agreement anyway).

                    The UK will be far happier and richer out.

                2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

                  Re: Brexit means brexit.

                  "It's a legal argument, some people who think they're smarter than they are think that invoking article 50 is the job of parliament because it affects people's rights."

                  It's the job of Parliament because Parliament is sovereign. We've been working on that one for over a third of a millennium.

                  And we don't have a definitive answer yet because HMG appealed the high court decision and we don't yet have the supreme court's verdict.

            2. Indolent Wretch

              Re: Brexit means brexit.

              >> And a General Election would wipe out the Remain parties: Labour and LibDem.

              You realise almost half the people who voted picked "remain" don't you.

              You realise large swathes of the country voted "remain" don't you.

              If you think that those places are suddenly going to say "were leaving the EU now so lets pick someone we disagree with" I'm not sure what logic you are using.

        3. Spanners Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: Brexit means brexit.

          No. The British voter saw no such thing. Many British voters looked to Boris and his chums..

          They saw that they were very definite in what they promised. They heard that they shouldn't listen to people who knew what they were talking about. They heard that all the experts knew less about the economy than the owners of the Daily Wail.

          They looked at Nigel and saw he seemed like a nice used car salesman and over a third of them voted for national sepukku.

          This was not a rational process. Every time they heard something worrying, they put their hands over their ears and said the mantra "Project Fear".

          Only an idiot still believes in that 18th century idea "sovereignty". No countries are sovereign. A couple of failed states have come close, Somalia for example. Even North Korea does business with China. It may host a couple of embassies. I imagine that it does business with someone? It is not completely sovereign then. Some of the worlds biggest successes have their economies heavily affected by others, have lots of treaty obligations and are part of large trade groupings like the one that we are being undemocratically forced to leave.

          1. RonWheeler

            Re: Brexit means brexit.

            No. That is simply the justification for preconceived ideas that right-on types tell themselves over and over and over. Doesn't get any truer, just makes people feel metropolitan.

          2. Dr Stephen Jones

            Re: Brexit means brexit.

            "No countries are sovereign"

            Sovereign nations do trade: they trade as sovereign nations.

            You would fail GSCE politics because you don't understand the modern definition of sovereignty, and from that misapprehension, you fail to understand what it is.

            1. John H Woods Silver badge

              Re: Brexit means brexit.

              "Sovereign nations do trade: they trade as sovereign nations ... You would fail GSCE politics" --- Dr Stephen Jones

              When he says "No countries are sovereign" he clearly means in the (incorrect) sense frequently used by the Brexiteers desperate to "reclaim it" --- they seemed very often to use it to mean total independence from, if not absolute domination of, all other nations. Many of them ironically also seemed to think that the idea that T. May could not decide the terms of Brexit all on her own without reference to Parliament was also an affront to UK Parliamentary sovereignty when it was in fact the very opposite.

              Obviously we all know that nations are sovereign in the proper sense of the word. But, unlike the vast majority of Brexiteers, we understand that treaties etc are, in a sense, a trade off of some sovereign power for some other advantage. Naturally we never lose the sovereign power itself, but we agree to be bound by certain conditions in exercising it. Because we actually never yield sovereignty, we can rip up those agreements if we choose (e.g. by invoking Article 50). But in the sense the word was mis-used by many Brexiteers ("we want our sovereignty back") he is absolutely correct that there are no sovereign nations.

          3. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Re: Brexit means brexit.

            I agree with everything, except:

            "They looked at Nigel and saw he seemed like a nice used car salesman"

            Nothing "nice" about him.

        4. Smooth Newt Silver badge
          WTF?

          Re: Brexit means brexit.

          The British voter looked at Europe, saw it was a massive mess, saw that it was impossible to get a better deal for the UK, and voted for sovereignty.

          There wasn't a typical British voter to describe as "The British voter" since about half voted to remain and half voted to leave. I suppose you might just about get away with "The British voter was equivocal", but that is like describing your parents as hermaphrodites.

          Those that voted to leave did so for many reasons, including immigration, lack of EU accountability, and that the NHS would get more money.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Brexit means brexit.

            "Those that voted to leave did so for many reasons"

            Of the Brexit voters that I know, most voted that way simply to stick a well-deserved two fingers up at the Westminster establishment, never expecting that Brexit would even come close to a majority. Some now regret having voted Brexit, as they see the current chaos and the possible consequences. This is a mixture of people in a mixture of areas (working age vs retired, rural vs city, etc). Only one person I know (retired, rural) was 'serious' about UKIP and "taking back control".

            Anecdote .ne. evidence and all that.

            1. Triggerfish

              Re: Brexit means brexit.

              Of the Brexit voters that I know, most voted that way simply to stick a well-deserved two fingers up at the Westminster establishment, never expecting that Brexit would even come close to a majority. Some now regret having voted Brexit

              Out of four i have talked to at work, one did it because of that reason and thinks that it may have been a mistake, one did it to see what would happen and thinks they made a mistake, one did it because ending free movement of Europeans stops the Syrians from getting in and protects our borders and is still pro (I think), one did it to take our pride back (then again he also thought Trump was a great idea and that he will work with Putin to sort out Syria) and is definitely pro.

              Oh and there is someone on my team who didn't bother to vote, thinks it's all hilarious people are pissed off at Brexit and that we are being silly complaining about losing value on the pound, then again he also doesn't trust mainstream news but will trust posters on reddit claiming to have worked for the FBI (they also are a Trump supporter).

              The amount of lack of depth in thinking I have seen on Brexit is breathtaking, I can't help feeling that many people voted on nothing more than a byline.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Brexit means brexit.

                Sample size: 4

                Thanks for sharing!

              2. John H Woods Silver badge

                if we're doing stats ...

                During the campaign I challenged as many strongly expressed pro-Brexit opinions as I could, whenever I spotted them on social media or comments on online news articles. Any that responded, got another response from me. Anyone who then responded again got characterized on the basis of the most charitable reading of their two responses. Not totally objective, but at least quantitative. I got, of 956 2-time responders ...

                "Morons" 905 94.7% People sticking to trivially stupid arguments or incorrect facts

                "Feelers" 37 3.9% “I'm just going with my gut,” “everyone's entitled to an opinion” etc.

                "Tryers" 14 1.5% Arguments I find unsatisfactory, but might have merit

                "Challengers" 9 0.9% Arguments and facts I have to accept as valid

          2. Dan 55 Silver badge

            Re: Brexit means brexit.

            Half (52%) did not vote to leave and half (48%) did not vote to remain. The turnout was 72%. 28% didn't vote at all.

            1. Dr Stephen Jones

              Re: Brexit means brexit.

              "28% didn't vote at all"

              They couldn't be bothered, so their views don't count.

              Given a few more years of education, maybe you'll get the hang of it.

              1. Dan 55 Silver badge

                Re: Brexit means brexit.

                Of course they count given the closeness of the result. They might have abstained because they didn't like either option, they didn't believe the referendum campaigns, amongst other things.

                Thanks for the advice about education, Dr Nick Riviera. I consider education lifelong so it's not really an insult. Hopefully there won't be too many cuts to adult education in post-Brexit Britain... except higher education of course. And probably any other kind of education due to plummeting tax receipts if the government wilfully persists with a plan of leaving both the EU and EEA/EFTA (the referendum only specified leaving the EU).

          3. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Re: Brexit means brexit.

            "Those that voted to leave did so for many reasons, including immigration, lack of EU accountability, and that the NHS would get more money."

            Had good chuckle at that. Almost forgot some of the lies!

            I bet the NHS people are extatic now...

          4. Lotaresco Silver badge

            Re: Brexit means brexit.

            "Those that voted to leave did so for many reasons, including immigration, lack of EU accountability, and that the NHS would get more money."

            Immigration: An issue spun by the press which appealed to racists. Of all the issues stated as influencing the Brexit vote this is the one that has legs, it's also the issue that the pro-Brexit politicans try to deny. "We're not a tiny bit racist, we just loathe people from Europe coming over here and doing the jobs that Brits won't do or can't do."

            Lack of EU accountability: Fictional, the EU is held to account by MEPs, by Heads of State, by auditors, by independent research organisations and ultimately by the electorate.

            NHS would get more money: A lie. Even the most pro-Brexit politicians now admit it was a lie.

        5. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Brexit means brexit.

          "The British voter looked at Europe, saw it was a massive mess, saw that it was impossible to get a better deal for the UK, and voted for sovereignty"

          Actually, close to half of British voters voted in the opposite.

          Although currently a political mess, the basic idea of having the European community co-operate and act in harmony is a good one. Nearly half of British voters voted to be a part of this, despite many wanting to so something to sort out the mess.

          Among those voting for the idea of the EU, there are many who have close ties to the Eurozone - families, businesses, education, research etc. Those in that position stand to have their lives severely messed up by withdrawal from the EU.

        6. John Crisp

          Re: Brexit means brexit.

          >and voted for sovereignty.

          I call UKIP FUD.

          For those who do not understand, parliament has always had the ultimate last say, but chosen not to exercise it

          If they had really 'lost control' how could they ever remove the UK from the EU?

          And leaving the EU, or whatever it is they decide they want, means they'll have even less control. The UK will have to toe the line on EU legislation if they want market access. And they will have absolutely no say in what those laws will be.

          Regrettably, successive governments have blamed Europe for their own homemade disasters, never admitting how much influence the UK actually had in Europe (a lot), and that they were in part responsible. Hoist on their own petard methinks.

          Now what was it someone said (if immigration is your concern) about the >50% of immigrants that come from outside the EU that your government has always had control of and actually done errr.... nothing about ?

          Had control. Forgot to use it. And you trust them to make Brexit a success? Good luck with that.

          I'm off to watch Trump throw more Crocs in the swamp.

          1. Alan 43

            Re: Brexit means brexit.

            The US and all other countries have to comply with EU regulations when the access the EU market. However they are free to make their own trade deals with other countries whereas the UK was not as a paying member of the EU market - nor could we import anything without applying EU tariffs.

        7. streaky Silver badge

          Re: Brexit means brexit.

          This was a rational decision that prices in the uncertainty and short-term pain. The poll sponsored by Open Britain (a pro-EU campaign group) and cited in The Guardian (a pro-EU newspaper) was designed to produce the response it got. No surprise there.

          Nah man we're all racists who can't do math or look at economic data that's what it is.

          Either that or there's no positive case for staying in the EU, there's certainly no downside to leaving and a massive potential upside to to leaving.

          In a world where UK exports to the EU are falling, exports to the rest of the world are increasing and we can can do trade deals with countries we want to rather than being blocked by the EU who doesn't want to trade with those countries because it hurts Germany are we going to stay or leave? That's right.

          The European project isn't really for the UK. I don't really wish ill on the countries still in (if they ever rebuild the EU the way it should be built I'd be happy to vote for rejoining but right now it's a disaster with a huge democratic deficit which is why you hear EU professional chair sitters talking about populism = bad without stating how they'll rebalance the democratic deficit - which is easy by the way - you just swap the legal positions of the European Parliament and the Commission; Parliament decides law and the Commission should be checks and balances as opposed to how it is today) but it really is a protectionist disaster designed to keep the UK in check and flow cash on the macro level to Germany as opposed to what it was supposed to be for.

          Not for nothing but it's going to be decades before people forget de Gaulle's attitude [problem].

          More on topic: higher prices means a reduction on imports of things that we don't explicitly need there and then - so what.

          1. TVU Silver badge

            Re: Brexit means brexit.

            "Nah man we're all racists who can't do math or look at economic data that's what it is."

            ^ You said it, not me.

          2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Re: Brexit means brexit.

            "The European project isn't really for the UK."

            Because Brits prefer making business with people from former colonies that we can pat on their little heads? And dealing with easily bribable officials from semi-democratic republics. Those damn Europeans who think they are our equals are not nice doing business with at all.

            Well, let's step up the banana trade then.

        8. El_Fev

          Re: Brexit means brexit.

          50 lickspittles voting you down dude, ignore them !

        9. John Smith 19 Gold badge
          WTF?

          "This was a rational decision that prices in the uncertainty and short-term pain."

          Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

          That is all.

          1. Lotaresco Silver badge

            Re: "This was a rational decision that prices in the uncertainty and short-term pain."

            It was easy for the majority of Brexiters to factor in the uncertainty and short-term pain. It worked like this "I'm in a low wage job or unemployed. They can't come after me for the money, I haven't got any. Someone else will have to pay for this. Someone else will pay for this. No skin off my nose."

            1. BinkyTheMagicPaperclip Silver badge

              Re: "This was a rational decision that prices in the uncertainty and short-term pain."

              Absolutely, but this would probably be the same idiots who voted Tory 'to make work pay' in the bloody-obvious-they-were-mistaken belief that benefits would go up, as would pay. Instead, to no surprise, benefits have been squeezed and in work payments have barely changed.

            2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

              Re: "This was a rational decision that prices in the uncertainty and short-term pain."

              "They can't come after me for the money, I haven't got any. Someone else will have to pay for this. Someone else will pay for this. No skin off my nose."

              Anyone who thinks things can't get any worse for them personally are in for a rude awakening!

      2. Fredrick Smith

        Re: Brexit means brexit.

        "I still have the cake?

        Yes, it's in your tummy.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Brexit means brexit.

          ""I still have the cake?

          Yes, it's in your tummy."

          ...where it's rapidly turning to sh*t.

          Perfect metaphor!

        2. This post has been deleted by its author

      3. Gasp!

        Re: Brexit means brexit.

        All I can do is quote the German finance minister: "Let's do a thought experiment. I have a cake, I eat the cake, do I still have the cake? Do not think so".

        This really is an apposite analogy : a democratic referendum has advised to eat the cake and now must pass through the democractic tubes of digestion (upper and lower) and if digested the shining mess of Brixit will be deposited for the enjoyment of all.

      4. Why Not?

        Re: Brexit means brexit.

        The Germans ate our cake?

        Bar stewards!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Brexit means brexit.

      The consequences will mean nothing to the political elite including Mr 'mines a pint' Farage.

      But to the rest of us?

      £££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££

      We will spend more every day

      in things we buy,

      in fuel for our cars

      where we like to go on Holiday

      etc

      etc

      etc

      Does that sum up the consequences well enough to you?

      I will have to suffer those consequences like everyone else but, I'd like to give the likes of Farage a good kicking for the lies he spread and continues to spread. You can add the editors of the Daily Mail and Express to that as well.

      1. Dr_N Silver badge

        Re: Brexit means brexit.

        "You can add the editors of the Daily Mail and Express to that as well."

        Ah, you speak of the new illiberal brexit elite!

        Plus ça change ...

        1. MJI Silver badge

          Re: Brexit means brexit. Mail & Express

          Interesting to see these two

          Mail used to be a case of joking about it, not much changed there. Still a joke, obsessed with celebrities. Irrelevant I suppose.

          But the Express, used to be an OK paper, a bit better than Mail and a bit obsessed with Princess Diana, but now, it is nothing but a hate rag, I feel dirty just seeing the headlines, same feeling as you get from a bad copy of the Sun. You get the feeling they want to line any non hard exit from EU people up against the wall and shoot them. What the hell went on there to turn it from OK (not good, not shit), straight past gutter and right into sewer press.

          1. Rich 11 Silver badge

            Re: Brexit means brexit. Mail & Express

            but now, it is nothing but a hate rag

            That's because the pornographer Richard Desmond has spent 15 years turning it into his personal mouthpiece.

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