back to article Drubbed Grubhub bub scrubs anti-Donald-dubbed snub sub-hubbub

Following the election of Donald Trump, Matt Maloney, CEO of food delivery service Grubhub, sent a message to employees decrying Trump's behavior and warning that similar behavior from employees would not be tolerated. "While demeaning, insulting and ridiculing minorities, immigrants and the physically/mentally disabled worked …

Coffee/keyboard

New keyboard please

I haven't read the article (since when did that stop anyone from commenting), but I wanted to praise the headline writer for a stunningly obtuse title.

Just brilliant.

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Megaphone

The Right to Vote

The right to vote is precious. Just ask the Russians. Let me put it this way:

In countries that have it, you have the right to vote for whomever you want.

You do NOT have the right to demand that everyone MUST vote for whomever you want.

And if you attack those that did not vote for whomever you voted for, then you attack, insult and demean the right to vote.

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Re: The Right to Vote

"And if you attack those that did not vote for whomever you voted for, then you attack, insult and demean the right to vote."

I don't understand this logic. The idea that, after a vote, if I loose, I should just accept that I was wrong all along and the people who voted in the opposite way were right?

Trump won the election. So, he gets to be president. Those who voted against now have to make a decision. They may decide to do everything that they can do to stop him from doing many of the things that he said he would, to resist, to protest. If they do, this is not anti-democratic, it is the soul of democracy. If they do, they are not resisting the will of the people, they are the people. They are not insulting the right to vote, they are demonstrating that if democracy is to be meaningful, it does not end at the right to vote.

It's the same in this country, incidentally. More so, actually, given that the Prime Minister in power wasn't elected, and the party in power were elected on a mandate to do the opposite of what they are doing.

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Re: The Right to Vote

Particularly offensive when the winners attack the losers right to dissent. I'm looking at you brexit.

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Re: The Right to Vote

I don't understand this logic. The idea that, after a vote, if I loose, I should just accept that I was wrong all along and the people who voted in the opposite way were right?

That's not what I'm saying at all. No one is saying that, just because your candidate lost, that those you voted your way are wrong. Elections are not about right or wrong.

Your right to vote for your candidate are the same as those who voted against your candidate. You may disagree, certainly. You may protest, fine. but you may not attack - hit, punch, kick, break store windows, shoot police officers - because your candidate lost. It is wrong. Also the court of public opinion always goes against those that do this.

In any way that you DISAGREE with those that did not vote your way, you must be able to accept that if your candidate won, you would allow those not voting your way TO USE THE SAME TACTICS to disagree. That is the difference between a representative republic, and anarchy.

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Re: The Right to Vote

Which particular type of wooden topped fascist would downvote that comment. Dissent and rioting whilst calling for abandonment of a peaceful and legal 'democratic' process because you don't like the results, are two very different beasts.

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Re: The Right to Vote

A slippery slope you are advocating... So the next time your side wins and my side loses it is ok for my side to violently oppose your lawful election win?

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Re: The Right to Vote

"You may protest, fine. but you may not attack - hit, punch, kick, break store windows, shoot police officers - because your candidate lost. It is wrong. Also the court of public opinion always goes against those that do this."

Yes, well as you point out, it's generally bad tactics. There are still exceptions even here; to fulfil Godwin's law, HItler was elected and it was a shame more people did not protest against that.

I hope Trump fulfils his promise to be a president for all the people. He has an uphill struggle against him.

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Holmes

Re: The Right to Vote

There are still exceptions even here; to fulfil Godwin's law, HItler was elected and it was a shame more people did not protest against that.

I don't want to search for this while I'm at work, but I believe Adolf was elected in a government that was a full Democracy. A Republican form of government is more resistant to corruption and so probably would not have elected him.

A Democracy grants and rejects rights. A Republic protects rights.

Remember that the ultimate symbol of a pure Democracy is a lunch mob.

I hope Trump fulfils his promise to be a president for all the people. He has an uphill struggle against him.

Agreed.

But he seems to have some trouble adjusting. He recently stated that he still wants to live most of the time in Trump Tower in downtown Manhattan. "Bruce Wayne" doesn't understand these things need Secret Service approval and they are likely to firmly say "no". You can't secure the airspace of a skyscraper in a crowded city surrounded by four busy airports.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The Right to Vote

@Phil Lord. Only Trump wont be "for all the people" he'll be all for the vested interest.

I hope they dump Trump the dumb thumping chump

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GrubHub

and its babyfaced CEO in my opinion said they despise anybody who didn't vote for Hillary, they didn't want any anti Hillary people to work for them or be their customers.

Fine, shame for the suckers you IPO'd but there are plenty more opportunities in the sea.

I will never ever buy anything from any company that you are involved with now or in the future so when in the future you are trying to spin some shit company and it's potential reach, take one off. OK

Tosser of the first order (this is my fair comment and opinion and is not anything to do with el reg)

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Re: GrubHub

At least the CEO only sent out an email. No question that it hurt the feelings of some, but that's bound to happen if you open your door to step outside these days.

I'm just glad to see that the man and his employees weren't overreacting as badly as some, who have resorted to overturning cars, smashing windows, and setting shops ablaze. His reaction is a mild one, in comparison.

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Re: GrubHub

Chill your boots, my friend. That's clearly not what he meant, though it was clumsily worded, and you'd have to be looking for something to get angry about to be able to kid yourself otherwise. He's right, too - grabbing anyone's genitals or "just missing them" would get you sacked immediately from any medium-to-large corp and most smaller firms. Over here, at least, you'd be quite likely to be prosecuted, if it was reported anyway. This isn't a controvsial opinion, its a simple statement if fact. It remains true even if you think women secretly love being assaulted by men in positions oif power, or that they've got it coming for wearing those skirts, or whatever other unfortunate cognitive tactic you use to try to excuse it.

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FAIL

Re: GrubHub

Um, sorry that IS clearly what he meant. He let his spoiled little temper tantrum overrule his Good E-mail Sense and said exactly what he thought about anyone who dared to vote against Queen Hillary. No amount of spin will disguise that.

He could at least be man enough to stand behind his words. Now he looks like a strident jerk AND a wuss who caves in the face of public condemnation.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: GrubHub

and its babyfaced CEO in my opinion said they despise anybody who didn't vote for Hillary,

I read his rant 3 times. There is nothing in there about voting for the daft manipulator queen. It is strictly about Trump.

What I find despicable is that he has "extrapolated" Trump's deplorable behavior to everyone who voted for him and supported him. While some of Trump supporters like for example the ex-KKK grand wizzard are even more deplorable than Trump, there are quite a few otherwise decent people who have voted for the Groper in Chief. Extrapolating Trump's behavioral stereotypes to all of those who voted for him is stupid, immature and disgusting.

I am not sure about its legality. It would have been illegal over here. Any political party membership discrimination which does not involve a prohibited political organization is an HR slam dunk on this side of the pond. Not sure what the legal situation is in USA though.

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Re: GrubHub

He has "extrapolated" Trump's words to be the same as actual behaviors. His attitude screams "Thought Police". Show me where Trump actually COMMITTED any of the horrible acts attributed to him, other than to say 'horrible' things that half of the country happens to believe.

That's the real goal here, to quasi-criminalize the honestly held beliefs that got Trump elected. Amusing but ain't gonna happen, except where 'progressive' control freaks rule.

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Re: GrubHub

The real problem for GrubHub is the restaurants they have in my area is that I can either call for delivery or use their website for delivery. In either case, I do not need to use and so have not. Note this is not a political but pragmatic decision - they offer almost no value to me. The CEO is a class A idiot. Smart managers know if they want a competent, capable staff they are likely to have diverse staff. Good talent comes with differing views, values, and demographics and limiting yourself to a narrow subset is likely to cause problems in the future in not understanding your customers who are likely to be more diverse than your staff will ever be.

Any publicity is not always good publicity and needlessly antagonizing your customers is never a good policy. This memo is something that will needlessly antagonize some current and potential customers driving them away, In my case the issue is moot because their service is not very useful to me for other reasons.

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Devil

Re: GrubHub

"I will never ever buy anything from any company that you are involved with" etc.

yep. that's my reaction as well. until they 'repent'. A nice public apology will do.

It is not *illegal* for a company to demand things like this of their employees. However, the reaction by their employees and by their customers is likely to make *that* kind of policy *extremely* bad for them.

When Chick-Fil-A's CEO [as I recall] contributed money to a particular campaign [for a proposition that was later overturned by 'politically correct' courts], *AND* when public disclosure of campaign funds revealed it, HIS COMPANY got a LOT of flack over it. [there were also a LOT of people who DELIBERATELY went to Chick-Fil-A because of it, since it was an obvious 'free speech' thing, and company funds were never involved].

NOW... will similar things happen to THESE guys at Grubhub, who are being EVEN WORSE?

Of course not. They're on the LEFT side of politics!

/me wonders what would happen if employees of Grubhub FORMED A UNION in response to this policy?

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Re: GrubHub

Without the full text it is hard to determine exactly what was said. The main message was to warn all employees that the expression of Trump-like views has no place at GrubHub. He has every right, even a duty, to warn his employees of company policy with respect to the expression of views, a policy with which I wholehearted agree. He did not instruct employees on how to vote, that would have been wholly wrong. The ability some of posters to misunderstand never fails to amaze me.

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Anonymous Coward

here, here!

This disease of extremists feeling validated by the 'protest vote' appears to be spreading, and social norms like not gobbing off like a raving loony + nazi zealot have become somewhat less inhibited. This kind of thing needs checking in my view too.

AC? do I need to explain?

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Re: here, here!

AC? do I need to explain? - No. The problem is many of the elites are extremely dismissive of the "deplorables" as Hildabeast called them. Once dismissed as being something border Untermensch it is pretty easy to dismiss their real problems and issues. Blowhard and Sanders highlighted that there is deep distrust and real angst out in the hinterlands about very real problems people are facing daily.

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Holmes

Meaning what you say

Kid youselves not: Trump meant every word he said during his political campaign. He is a known quantity; his character and actions have been consistent since his youth, and all are well documented. So GrubHub's CEO statement was clear: Trump's words and actions are intolerable if emulated by any employee of this firm.

His clarification was quite clear: ""I want to clarify that I did not ask for anyone to resign if they voted for Trump," he said. "I would never make such a demand. To the contrary, the message of the email is that we do not tolerate discriminatory activity or hateful commentary in the workplace, and that we will stand up for our employees."

Perhaps he should instead have said : "Don't let the door slam you in the ass on your way out!"

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Re: Meaning what you say

"His clarification was quite clear:"

Even before I got to your post with the clarification in it, after reading the article and the comments vilifying this GrubHib bloke, my brain is going "what the fuck did these people read that I missed?"

It seems pretty clear that he's simple taking Trump at his campaign word and stating that if Trump was one his employees publicly stating these views then he'd be fired.

US politics is nasty. The campaigns even nastier. It seems they have legal carte blanche to spout off any old lies, accusations and threats with no proof or substantiation. Even after they've been proven to be wrong, they still repeat them. Again and again. Both side did it, but from what I saw, Trump was the worst of them. I guess freedom of speech means you can say whatever you like, even if demonstrably wrong or even downright illegal. I fully support the GrubHub blokes right to tell his staff that Trumps example of "demeaning, insulting and ridiculing minorities, immigrants and the physically/mentally disabled " will not be tolerated in the workplace. Isn't that sort of behaviour illegal anyway in the USA? Don't they have discrimination laws that trump freedom of speech?

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such poor reading comprehension

No where in his email does he say that he expects people who voted for Trump to resign.

"While demeaning, insulting and ridiculing minorities, immigrants and the physically/mentally disabled worked for Mr. Trump, I want to be clear that this behavior – and these views, have no place at Grubhub."

...

"Further I absolutely reject the nationalist, anti-immigrant and hateful politics of Donald Trump and will work to shield our community from this movement as best as I can."

...

"I want to repeat what Hillary said this morning, that the new administration deserves our open minds and a chance to lead, but never stop believing that the fight for what’s right is worth it."

I suppose if you believe all Trump supporters are inclined to 'demean, insult and ridicule minorities, immigrants and the physically/mentally disabled', then maybe he is asking for Trump supporters to resign. But don't be confused and think he is asking for a resignation because they voted in a particular way. He just doesn't feel the need to allow anti-social behavior in his workplace.

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Re: such poor reading comprehension

The problem is that his characterization of Trump's words is based on the media's willful misinterpretation, not what he actually said. His obnoxious style makes it very easy to do, though his refusal to go on the defensive as he was supposed to is also a big part of why he won. If one's opponents can put him on the defensive, they win.

Trump did not demean, insult, or ridicule any minority, immigrant, or disabled person. Well, I should say that he didn't ridicule them for being any of those things-- he certainly called some out for writing or saying what he considered to be stupid things, but he used the same mockery on non-disabled white males too. The media, during their campaigning for Hillary Clinton, willingly distorted all of that to try to get their candidate elected. The low-information voters swallow whole the out-of-context soundbites and "analysis" from news announcers who may as well be wearing "I'm with her" T-shirts.

Trump's politics, also, are neither hateful nor anti-immigrant (nationalist, sure, and that's not a bad thing). They're anti ILLEGAL immigrant, but that's not at all the same thing as being anti-immigrant. Someone who breaks into your home and decides to start living there is not an undocumented roommate-- he's an intruder, and you have every right to call the police and have him removed.

If someone wants to enter, he should do it the lawful way, with the permission of the host, not the "breaking and entering" way that criminals use. And if you do act like a criminal, don't get upset that you're treated like one.

Anger at what the elite establishment has done with the country (and all supposedly liberal western democracies) is not hate. If you're not angry, you're either not paying attention or you are part of the problem. If you would like to see hate, take a look at all of the people threatening the president-elect, burning him in effigy, writing "not my president" on their foreheads, and rioting over the results of an election that didn't go their way.

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WTF?

Re: such poor reading comprehension

"Trump did not demean, insult, or ridicule any minority, immigrant, or disabled person."

Um what? Did you happen to miss when he said of mexicans "They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists."

That's totally not insulting or demeaning a minority, no not at all...

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You didn't see him mock the disabled guy, I take it

Trump made the gestures/noises that are traditionally used to mockingly imitate someone with a neurological disability (cerebral palsy, brain damage, etc.) while referencing the reporter that has a relevant neuro impairment. Video:

http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2015/11/27/can-donald-trumps-mockery-disabled-reporter-defended/

That's far from just reacting to what the guy said or wrote in a way Trump would have or did to a non–disabled dude.

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Devil

Re: such poor reading comprehension

in summary: the CEO of Grubhub officially equated the mis-interpretations of Trump as being "Trump's politics", and THEN basically stated that anyone not agreeing with "this statement" (which includes his characterization of Trump's politics, by the way) could hand in his resignation.

Well, THAT doesn't sound politically threatening, now DOES it?

So what if you try to DEFEND Trump? *YOUR* *FIRED*! [irony deliberate]

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Anonymous Coward

Re: such poor reading comprehension

A 'spokes' droid for Drump is now saying that 'he' never said, 'We are gonna build a Wall and Mexico is gonna payfor it"'.

George Orwell 'thoughspeak' seems to be getting closer to reality every day.

A School district where I used to live in the US has removed 1984 from the list of permitted books (i.e. school librries are not allowed to stock it) because the author is a commie.

IMHO, that is the USA today. Insular and inward looking much like they were in the 1930's.

OTOH, Drump is starting to realise that not everything Obama did was bad for the USA. If 'The Wall' gets quietly forgotten then there might be hope for them yet.

They milght like to listen to 'The Wall' and reflect on what happened to the Berlin one.

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Re: such poor reading comprehension

"Um what? Did you happen to miss when he said of mexicans "They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists."

That's totally not insulting or demeaning a minority, no not at all..."

99% of Mexico is populated by Mexicans. I don't see that as a minority. Or is that your double-plus good definition of minority?

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Re: such poor reading comprehension

'One out of every five illegal immigrants agents caught along the border in 2014 had a criminal record.'

Brandon Judd, president of the National Border Patrol Council, quoted in USA Today.

'When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best they’re sending people that have lots of problems. They're bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists… And many of them are good people”' - Donald Trump.

Likewise, Trump never said 'Women are pigs ...' etc. He called some individuals who happened to be women 'pigs'. He's an equal opportunity insulter. I'm no Trump fan, but what is alarming is the extent that the media have deliberately skewed so much of what he said (which was not admirable to begin with).

Also note that Trump is regularly called 'homophobic' despite having very little on the topic, and being well on the liberal side of the 'official' Republican posiiton as expressed at its convention.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gay-republicans-platform-lgbt-rachel-hoff-log-cabin-republicans-gop-donald-trump-1.3686672

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Facepalm

Re: such poor reading comprehension

There's a quite a lock of black people in the various African nations. Does that mean they are not a minority in the US either?

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Re: such poor reading comprehension

Come to California. Allow me to give you a personal tour of one of our many state penitentiaries filled with illegal immigrants from Mexico and Latin American countries.

Trump wasn't wrong.

Maybe it was you who missed something: How to do any basic research.

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Re: such poor reading comprehension

Not if it happens to be true. But then again - Facts is Raaaaaycissss!

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Anonymous Coward

If anyone is wondering...

...why the pollsters missed the outcome, this fellow illustrates why. There was indeed a large "hidden" vote that emerged on election day, because the hatred and hostility generated by the Hillary-friendly/Donald-averse media in the Hilary-Bernie fan clubs was so intense, and in your face in most communities, that Donald supporters, and Hillary/Bernie haters, chose to keep their opinions to themselves (and away from even the pollsters) until election day. On the job, the same. There was little to gain, and much to lose if your boss might happen to harbor feelings such as this moroon's, but was keeping them to himself. As for injecting political considerations into ones hiring and promotion criteria, or any added irrelevant criteria including race, ethnicity, gender etc, such only diminishes the size of the pool of desirable personnel, re relevant qualifications, for the job to be done.

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Re: If anyone is wondering...

There's another facet of the polls that I haven't seen mentioned, which is that people who are poor for a long time learn to avoid contact with strangers that try to reach them at home, because they can never tell when it'll be a collection agency or lawyer. The pollsters might have been unable to include the struggling chunk of the population in their studies for that reason, with the end–result being an unrealistically positive 'picture' of voters' attitudes.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: If anyone is wondering...

Yes, pollsters inability to reach people by phone has become a real problem for the reason you mention, and many people are more aware of their personal privacy and refuse to answer pollsters' questions at all. Gallup, a premier pollster, bowed out of election predictions this whole election cycle citing the inability to make reliable predictions with the changing demographics in communications moving to mobile phones and internet social networking from traditional land-lines on which their standardization and validations were based (that, and it had missed predictions on a recent election). Others plunged on, but it turned out that Gallup was right. Even one whose popular-vote prediction was close missed completely in its electoral college prediction.

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Surely

His comments are offensive and insulting to pro-Trumpers and he's actively discriminating against them. Double standards me thinks.

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Re: Surely

No, he's saying that it wasn't acceptable to repeat the kind of offensive things Trump said or allegedly did — which would be behavior that'd get a person in serious trouble at most workplaces.

There's plenty of people that supported Trump but found his attitudes/actions towards women, minorities & disabled folk totally unacceptable, you know... Voting for the guy doesn't automatically mean someone's a bigoted boor.

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Trollface

Re: Surely

His comments are offensive and insulting to pro-Trumpers and he's actively discriminating against them. Double standards me thinks.

Indeed. They were in the minority after all :-)

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Simple questions, simple answers

I can understand why a lot of people wanted to stick two fingers up at the establishment, whether via Brexit in the UK or Trump in the US. Lots of folks are angry and a backlash against positively Victorian levels of social inequality was always going to occur. But if that is indeed the true motivation for many Trump/Brexit voters (I think I'll have to call it Brexitrump¹ for short), the tragedy is that the result for those folks, in both cases, is almost certainly an even worse standard of living and future opportunity.

That said, I do think there's a simple Q&A for those who did vote for Trump:

Q1—Do you agree with the views Trump has expressed many times about immigrants and women? Do you agree with his racism, bigotry and misogyny?

Q2—Do you actually understand what will happen if the few policies he has been able to explain are actually implemented? (Like protectionism against China; or attempting to reopen coal mines all over the place; or failing to honour Nato obligations.)

Q3—Did you honestly believe that a spoilt ignorant tax-avoiding egotistical man-child who has made a living out of exploiting working people sees you as anything other than a sucker with a vote?

I think only people who answer 'Yes' to Q1 should find another job, and I hope there are few of them.

If you answered 'Yes' to Q2 or Q3 ... well, that's why Trump said "I love uneducated people".

¹ I apologise for 'Brexitrump', but what can you do? It sounds like the result of a poor decision in a breakfast cereal's marketing department. Or maybe it's a version of the Gruffalo with a plus-sized ass?

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Devil

Re: Simple questions, simple answers

actually some of them are LEADING questions, and invite responses like these:

"Q1—Do you agree with the views Trump has expressed many times about immigrants and women?"

A1 - yes. (he likes to hire women in key positions, and wants LEGAL immigration)

Q1(b) "Do you agree with his racism, bigotry and misogyny?"

A1(b) - I don't believe he exhibits any racism, bigotry, nor misogyny

"Q2—Do you actually understand what will happen if the few policies he has been able to explain are actually implemented?"

A2 - yes, and I want them. tax cuts, jobs, deregulation, border enforcement, and FAIR DEALS with other countries are a GOOD thing.

"(Like protectionism against China; or attempting to reopen coal mines all over the place; or failing to honour Nato obligations.)"

I don't believe ANY of THAT will happen.

"Q3—Did you honestly believe that a spoilt ignorant tax-avoiding egotistical man-child who has made a living out of exploiting working people sees you as anything other than a sucker with a vote?"

A3 - I'm not sure who you're talking about here. Mrs. Clinton?

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Re: Simple questions, simple answers

Bombastic Bob claimed:

"I don't believe he exhibits any racism, bigotry, nor misogyny"

I don't know where he's been living the past year or two, but here are a few direct quotations from the Donald:

"What can be simpler or more accurately stated? The Mexican Government is forcing their most unwanted people into the United States. They are, in many cases, criminals, drug dealers, rapists, etc.”

Sounds a bit racist-y to me.

“You know, it really doesn’t matter what the media write as long as you’ve got a young, and beautiful, piece of ass.”

Sounds a bit misogyny-y to me.

“If I were running ‘The View’, I’d fire Rosie O’Donnell. I mean, I’d look at her right in that fat, ugly face of hers, I’d say ‘Rosie, you’re fired.’”

Sounds a bit misogyny-y to me.

There are more. Many more. Face it: he has said a lot of outrageous things, that if you said them in a workplace you would get fired. And that's all the original e-mail said.

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Re: Simple questions, simple answers

Stating the stereotype that many Mexican immigrants are criminals etc is not racist. It's stereotyping and xenophobic at worse.

Media writing about beautiful people is stating a fact. Just look at how the write about Hollywood stars.

Rosie O'Donnell's face is ugly. But misogynistic? Nope, she is an individual. She's not a whole gender. Extrapolating from one to all is just like stating that all Trump voters are identikits.

Grade? F-, please try harder.

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Re: Simple questions, simple answers

Stating the stereotype that many Mexican immigrants are criminals etc is not racist. It's stereotyping and xenophobic at worse.

So we've reached the point where defending Trump requires splitting hairs between "stereotyping and xenophobia" and "racism."

Because the former is SO much more positive than the latter.

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Thumb Up

Good

It's always a little bit of a tossup as to which online ordering app I use, but from now on, it's GrubHub all the way.

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i read the whole e-mail . . . it was just a call for civility and a warning that certain behaviors would not be tolerated in the workplace . . . it ended with the basic "if you can't be civil, save both of us the time and effort and just quit now"

i have noticed that it is being spun and jumped on by a bunch of sore winners.

[ . . . there's nothing worse than a sore winner! ]

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Gimp

[ . . . there's nothing worse than a sore winner! ]

pretty sure having your pants yabbies sqished in a vice would be

(possibly not for him -->)

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