back to article Microsoft goes back to the drawing board – literally, with 28" tablet and hockey puck knob

Microsoft today revealed the Surface Studio, a 28" drawing-board-like PC you can stick a hockey-puck-looking dial on to control software. The touchscreen super-fondleslab was announced alongside an updated Surface Book. Redmond also unveiled the next major update to its latest operating system: Windows 10 Creators Update. …

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  1. Dwarf Silver badge

    The big questions

    Will they turn off all the slurping in the update ?

    Will they sort out the start menu ?

    I know its dumb questions, but you gotta ask just to make sure to find out if anyone is actually listening in Cloud MS Land...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      The big question

      Will it run Linux?

      1. Old Handle

        Re: The big question

        It's a PC, I don't see any reason it wouldn't.

        1. Tom 7 Silver badge

          Re: The big question It's a PC, I don't see any reason it wouldn't.

          You never know - one day MS might write a bios/UEFI lockout that works.

          1. h4rm0ny

            Re: The big question It's a PC, I don't see any reason it wouldn't.

            >>"You never know - one day MS might write a bios/UEFI lockout that works."

            Microsoft is not UEFI. UEFI is a consortium of big players from Samsung to AMD to Intel to Microsoft and a number of others. And Secure Boot could be set to lock out other OSs right now but it isn't and MS's own requirements for Windows certification mandate that a physically present user be able to turn it off. Secure Boot serves a valuable purpose - it blocks a number of real world malware attacks that subvert the boot stack. Things that actually exist. It hasn't been 'failing to keep out Linux' all this time, you can just enter the UEFI menus and turn it off with a keyboard if you want. Or have we reached a generation of GNU/Linux users who now regard that as complex subversion?

            1. Eduard Coli

              Re: The big question It's a PC, I don't see any reason it wouldn't.

              Really, then maybe UEFI only looks like a shill for M$ as it used Secure Boot to lock out Linux and control updates on devices like Surface RTs at least until they leaked the golden keys.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The big question

          the other big question what's this got to do with software?, and possibly more importantly how much did Redmond pay for this thinly veiled advertisement?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Can I wipe it....

        ...and put a PROPER linux on there?

        Get it right! If you're going to be the first with this boilerplate comment you could at least use the boilerplate....

  2. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

    Still too small... I've been dreaming of a DIN A0-sized electronic drawing board since I've started using CAD some 30 years ago.

    1. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

      637x438 mm will fit an A2 sheet, so we're getting there. There are plenty of A0-sized displays around, but they're in televisions and signage. You'd need one with at least a 9000 x 6000 resolution to keep the image sharp enough to substitute for a drawing-board...

      Maybe in three or four years? Still, It won't be cheap.

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Devil

        wait until it gets a really big crack in it, like a phone that bends too easily...

        (head-shaped, from head-slam-on-desk frustration - it's Win-10-nic after all)

  3. Novex

    ...Terry Myerson, head of Microsoft’s Windows and Devices division, said he was “humbled” that 400 million people had chosen Windows 10...

    ????????? I think that needs fixing...

    ...Terry Myerson, head of Microsoft’s Windows and Devices division, said he was “humbled” that 400 million people had accepted the rogering up the arse that is being forced on to Windows 10...

    Oh, and while I'm at it, when I'm gaming I prefer to play the game, not to keep pausing every few seconds to check my social media shit.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Terryfying

      Indeed. So "successful" has his division been in that respect, I feel we should rename the act from "rogering" to "Terrying up the arse" in his honour.

      "You're running Windows 10. Seriously.....?"

      "Wasn't out of choice. I woke up one morning to find I'd been Terryed without my permission."

      1. Novex
        Happy

        Re: Terryfying

        "Terrying up the arse"

        Now that deserves more than the one upvote I can give it!

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Really??

    And what about Windows Phone? What about cross compatible gaming between XBox and Windows 10? Surface book is great, but where is the line to stand in to purchase that?

  5. Amias

    Perfect for the wannabe creator market

    this specs seem to fall short of anything really useful for professional use , especially the weird screen resolution. If it had NVMe , thunderbolt and quadro graphics then we are talking.

    looks like its aimed at the same market of people who use macbook pros for facebook and sometimes loading expensive applications then gettings scared and going back to facebook.

    1. Simon Harris Silver badge

      Re: Perfect for the wannabe creator market

      "Weird screen resolution"

      4500x3000 - ok, so it's not an exact multiple of HD, but the aspect ratio matches 35mm film, and hence DSLR sensors - maybe they figure there will be a big market to photographers.

      1. Bronek Kozicki Silver badge

        Re: Perfect for the wannabe creator market

        From my humble (really) experience with drawing programs, the high resolution is very useful BUT only if CPU power (and memory) to draw the screen in realtime is available. The GPU is actually not that very useful, most of the time.

    2. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Perfect for the wannabe creator market

      >this specs seem to fall short of anything really useful for professional use , especially the weird screen resolution.

      What the hell are you talking about? Damned near every non-Surface Windows laptop is 16:9, which isn't great for many purposes. Macs are 16:10 (the same as my ageing Dell) which is handy - even for editing full-res 1080 video you have some spare vertical pixels for a timeline.

      Professional applications - CAD, Photoshop - tend to allow the user some freedom in how toolbars and palettes are arranged in the workspace. If you were a professional, you would know that.

  6. djstardust

    Load of bollocks

    I really hate Apple but am waiting for the new imac to be announced. Then it will be bootcamped with Windows 7 64 bit Pro.

    Why Microsoft of all people can't create a decent challenger in the all-in-one market is beyond me.

    Mind you the beauty of bootcamping is that you can run old (and better) Windows versions on the newest hardware.

    Kind of ironic, isn't it?

    1. djstardust

      Re: Load of bollocks

      And .... Microsoft's customer service appears to be terrible. Given all the problems with Surface batteries and Surface Book software I really wouldn't want to shell out all that money then be left with a lemon.

      1. h4rm0ny

        Re: Load of bollocks

        My experience with MS customer service has been good. The problems I have encountered have all been with their billing department.

    2. Doc Ock

      Re: Load of bollocks

      >all-in-one market

      I don't like all in one desktops due to big bills or off to land fill if something goes bang. I prefer modular components that can be either repaired, upgraded or replaced relatively cheaply, quickly and easily.

      Best of luck replacing or upgrading the graphics in an iMac .

    3. Adam Jarvis

      Apple Bootcamp no longer supports Windows 7SP1 on newer iMacs.

      You'll be out of luck, Apple don't support older versions of Windows on newer iMacs (no bootcamp drivers). The Bootcamp drivers for a new iMac will only support Windows 8.1/10. Apple no longer support Windows 7 on newer macbooks and iMacs, haven't for a while.

      Apple don't support newer versions of Windows i.e. Windows 10 on older iMacs officially, but we have Windows 10 running on a 2008 iMac + 2009 iMac (the 2009 24'' is the one to get). ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro dedicated graphics are more stable than the Nvidia 8800GS, which freezes occasionally, due to buggy Nvidia Drivers, but the Nvidia 9400M is OK under Windows 10.

      1. DougS Silver badge

        Re: Apple Bootcamp no longer supports Windows 7SP1 on newer iMacs.

        If you can't boot into Windows 7 you could still run it as a VM.

        1. Adam Jarvis

          Re: Apple Bootcamp no longer supports Windows 7SP1 on newer iMacs.

          Nothing special about Macs regards to VMWare, given that's what VMware is for. Anywhere VMware runs, Windows, Linux, Mac, (even iOS, using Horizon), Cloud/Local Servers/(ESX/ESXi) - you can run Windows 7 as a VM.

    4. joed

      Re: Load of bollocks

      "I really hate Apple but am waiting for the new imac to be announced. Then it will be bootcamped with Windows 7 64 bit Pro." - not so fast. A VM - sure, but since Apple no longer supported older Windows versions (like 7) so your new iMac will not let you run better Windows. BTW, I hate both at this point (but consider MS a worse evil - Windows 8+ is an eviction notice to all sane Windows users).

    5. boltar Silver badge

      Re: Load of bollocks

      "I really hate Apple but am waiting for the new imac to be announced. Then it will be bootcamped with Windows 7 64 bit Pro."

      Huh? Most people buy a Mac for OS/X, not because they want some grossly overpriced PC hardware. If you just want win7 just buy an all in one PC for half the money and better specs,

      1. jason 7

        Re: Load of bollocks

        Strangely most of the people I know that run a Mac or Macbook Pro for anything serious use Windows on it. I often get calls from folks who have just spent £1300+ on a Macbook asking me if I have any 'free Windows licenses'.

        The rest would have been better off financially buying a Chromebook to sit looking at Facebook in Starbucks.

    6. Vince

      Re: Load of bollocks

      You won't officially find that supported. As of Sierra Bootcamp only supports Windows 10. Works if you already had older, but not supported new.

      It *can* be done, sort of.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows 10

    I have to say, once I've gone through my settings for privacy my ThnkPad with Windows 10 is far better than my MacBook Air with Sierra. In almost every respect.

    1. WP7Mango

      Re: Windows 10

      I agree. I really like Windows 10, especially on hardware which supports touch and pen input.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows 10

        So, I'm not the only who doesn't mind Windows 10? A few minutes removing the crud from the start menu, a quick search and the unwanted applications are gone with some powershell scripts and then sort out the snooping (as much as you can). Apart from a few settings screens looking slightly different, Win 10 is cosmetically the same as Win 7.

        1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

          Re: Windows 10

          A few minutes removing the crud from the start menu, a quick search and the unwanted applications are gone with some powershell scripts and then sort out the snooping (as much as you can).

          Now if only MS had the technical expertises to do that and not have but a few skilled users like yourself enjoying the non-shitty version...

        2. BigAndos

          Re: Windows 10

          I quite like windows 10 as well, my PC boots up a lot faster since I upgraded from Windows 7 and it doesn't get in the way like Windows 8 does. The snooping doesn't really bother me that much, only irritation is lack of control over when it installs updates. It always seems to pick a time I really need to start work quickly in order to spend ages churning away!

        3. jason 7

          Re: Windows 10

          I built a new Intel 5820k box a few months ago with all the bells and whistles and slapped Windows 10 Pro 64 straight on it. All been perfect, not a hitch or a glitch.

          I do tweak it up and switch all the App stuff off. I also run Classic Start.

          Other than that, really happy with it. Yes I have seen it struggle with some hardware (I'm an IT Support guy) and it's usually stuff that's 8+ years old in the main. Usually with a sympathetic touch it can be made to work smoothly on old kit.

          I do however, mandate two things.

          1. Switch off Fast Start.

          2. Always use a Local account.

          Save a lot of hassle. I found out this week that Curry's are charging folks £50 to set them up with a MS account that isn't needed. Terrible!

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Windows 10

          Windows 10 missing Aero Glass effect along with some other Aero features.

        5. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Mushroom

          Re: Windows 10

          "Apart from a few settings screens looking slightly different, Win 10 is cosmetically the same as Win 7."

          *NO*, not even close - there's the 2D FLUGLY for starters, and anything "the metro" or UWP, and of course the "start thing" and its alphabetized 'you cannot shut that off' "all [cr]apps list" where most everything you look for either starts with 'm' or 'w' meaning 'scroll to the bottom to find it, every! stinking! time!'. and so on. yeah, don't get me started, I could write a NOVEL on what's wrong with Win-10-nic and why it's WAY different than 7...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows 10

      Windows 10 AU 1607 fully updated with the Cumulative October updates 'is' starting to get there.

      It's definitely feeling more polished. Most of the time it takes a back seat now, as we appear to be in a 'calm' period regards Windows update, before the release of Windows 10 1703 (Creator's Edition).

      The biggest problem with Windows 10 right now, is to get to this point where things are stable is something akin to finding the Holy Grail. Failed updates-a plenty along the way, freezing of SSDs. Its not easy to get a clean 100% successful install still.

      Windows 10 is let down by the Start Menu, its too pushy, it feels desperate. The Start Menu still feels like malware, you really can't tell either way if its Microsoft or a third party (i.e. malware) modifying/adding things and by default, its pretty much back to full screen sizes of Windows 8.

      The biggest problem I can see ahead, is Windows 10 1703 (Creator's Edition) is looking like a bloater in terms of graphics performance it will need.

      Seems like Microsoft are upping all the hardware requirements to force a hardware refresh/a fundamental gear shift in hardware needed to run Windows. It looks like a reach out to OEM Partners, after decimating them with the free update, to force hardware upgrades on end-users.

      Which probably means actually turning off the forced Windows Update Service come March 2017, and just use Windows 10 for the 'drudge' I need it for. Watching the presentation today, there was nothing in Windows 10 1703 Creator's Edition I need on any laptop I use.

      Ironically, Windows 10 Creators Edition, specifically designed for 3D work, is still the flat design interface, i.e.Microsoft - do as we say, not as we do. Yes, 'love 3D', but not in any part of our Interface design.

      1. Not Terry Wogan

        Re: Windows 10

        "Seems like Microsoft are upping all the hardware requirements to force a hardware refresh/a fundamental gear shift in hardware needed to run Windows."

        If some are screaming blue murder about Windows 10 now, just wait to hear the (justified) cacophony if Microsoft really were to increase the minimum hardware requirements for 1703.

        People on non-LTSB Windows 10 would find themselves stranded on an old build with approximately a year's support for security updates remaining. In other words, Microsoft would have rendered great swathes of machines effectively obsolete - machines that they themselves made update to Windows 10 from Windows 7/8 - before Windows 7 even leaves extended support!

        To my mind, I don't think even Microsoft would dare to increase base hardware requirements for Windows 10 until at least January 2023, which is when extended support for Windows 8.1 ends.

    3. David Glasgow

      Re: Windows 10

      Tee Hee.

      Joke, right?

  8. Emmeran

    I want!

    Can I get a machine shop version. I don't need pretty I need sturdy and dust proof yet able to do all of those cool maker things.

    (Yes I bought a Cat phone)

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: I want!

      You have two main issues:

      1 - Protecting the screen area from scratches (bits of metal, dust from diamond tools etc). This could be done with a sacrificial plastic sheet, as many people use on their phone screens.

      2 - Dust ingress into the base unit. You should be able to knock yourself up a slim enclosure with dust filtering, though you might have to actively drive air through the filters in order to provide sufficient cooling. Still, some 9 mm plywood, some vacuum-cleaner filters and a couple of fans won't break the bank.

      The hinge areas can be protected with - at minimum - a plastic bag and some duck tape.

  9. Luna Tick

    o rly?

    400 million people had chosen Windows 10 (no mention of those who didn’t), and said that in return the Creators Update would be available for free to everyone using the operating system

    Oh how gracious of MS. Fock off you condescending prick.

    1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      Re: o rly?

      "in return the Creators Update would be available for free to everyone using the operating system"

      Missed that.. Thanks for highlighting!

      So.. This implies that Windows 10 might just not be free forever?

      1. d3vy

        Re: o rly?

        "This implies that Windows 10 might just not be free forever"

        Where have you been? Its not free now, the free upgrade period finished months ago.

  10. Mage Silver badge

    The silver hockey puck works on and off the screen.

    Frankly sounds stupid.

    There is a reason why we moved from trackballs and digitizer pucks and light pens. A mouse is better. When you REALLY need a digitizer, a Wacom pen is better. So 200dpi A2 screen with high resolution Wacom pen would to me be creative. This 24" and puck is joke.

    Also "touch" is fine on a phone and tablet if there is no keyboard. It's just tiring on a larger screen when you are mostly using a keyboard and sometimes using a mouse.

    Windows 10? Well to run your existing windows applications (and ones with no Linux or Mac alternative) or buying a not Apple laptop there is little alternative to GHASTLY Windows 10. I refuse to believe that more than 50% of people actually want Win10, and that 90% would prefer simply a new version of XP (Windows 7 is purely a bug fix of misbegotten VIsta, which is NT's equivalent of Windows for DOS, ME. ME was dramatically worse than Win98SE and pointless. like Vista, Win 8 and Win10)

    MS has lost the GUI plot TOTALLY. Bloody morons since after 2003 with "Ribbon". Even "Personalised Menus and hide stuff not used often (XP and later Default) is DELUSIONAL, the LESS used a feature is the more it needs to have the icon, the menu etc consistently where you expect it.

    Removing "little used features" and adding eye candy is MORONIC. A feature used once in 6 months might be REALLY IMPORTANT. The MS telemetry and focus / beta groups are almost pointless.

    MS Needs a Reset, certainly, to about 1999!

    IDIOTS when it comes to GUI. Though mystifyingly Ubuntu has same disease and Apple Mac nows seems to be going backwards, though I never have liked their search tool and stupid big Dock/launcher at the bottom of screen. One that pops out from the side makes far more sense on Widescreen Landscape, only top/bottom on Portrait screens. Why do almost no screens (and none on laptop) support portrait, though many graphics drivers do? I only use TV to watch video.

    1. WP7Mango

      Re: The silver hockey puck works on and off the screen.

      You sound a little unhinged to be honest, and a bit of a grumpy old fart. Windows 10 works fine. In fact, I really enjoy using it and much prefer it to Windows 7.

      The whole point of touch and pen input on a big screen is so that you can input directly onto it. It's simply another form of input, but it doesn't remove any of the existing forms such as mouse or keyboard, so it's not like you're forced to use it.

      If you really want an example of a device that is tiring to use, go and check out the iPad Pro, because that does not support mouse. You have no option but to use touch.

      BTW, if you want a monitor which supports portrait, I'd recommend Dell.

      1. tiggity Silver badge

        Re: The silver hockey puck works on and off the screen.

        iPadPro does not have touch as only option - there is the (stupidly expensive!) stylus for drawing etc.

      2. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Thumb Down

        Re: The silver hockey puck works on and off the screen.

        "You sound a little unhinged to be honest, and a bit of a grumpy old fart."

        'grumpy old fart' - sounds like a snot-nosed MILLENIAL said that.

        Sorry, I don't want to remove my hand from the keyboard to use the MOUSE, half the time, let alone stretch over to the screen and put it between my EYEBALLS and the display surface, at least PARTIALLY blocking what I'm trying to look at. A Wacom pad does just fine for the 'fine resolution' (pun intended) kinds of things you might need to do. why do you need a HOCKY PUCK directly on the screen? A pen on the screen makes more sense, but THAT was available in the 1970's!!

        So the 'hockey puck' input device is YET ANOTHER "patent encumberance" attempt, to lock us all into something Micro-shaft can control and dominate for 20 years... [except it's FAIL]

        I said this about Win-10-nic in general, Micro-shaft leveraging the OS to attempt [at some point] to use PATENTS to weed out the competition, putting themselves into a TRUE monopoly position, but thankfully Win-10-nic's interface isn't being universally accepted, just tolerated by the FRACTION of computer users who are willing to PUT UP WITH IT.

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